Tolkien and Howard
aguaman
David Gentzel <gen...@pobox.com> wrote:
> Kent <tok...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >Wanderer wrote:
> >> In _Literary Swordsmen and Sorcerers_ Tolkien is quoted as having
said
> >> that he had read and enjoyed the Conan stories.
> >
> >There we go!! Who wrote/edited it? Must track this one down!!
>
> Why none other than that bastion of careful and thorough research...
> L. Sprague de Camp! And the previous reference was to DARK VALLEY
DESTINY,
> another de Camp "research" job.
>
> So, anyone have a *real* reference to the Tolkien quote?
I've always been suspicious of this quote as well. I can't see any
influence that Robert E. Howard's work had on Tolkien's work. None.
Nada. If Tolkien really liked REH's work, you'd expect to see something.
If, and I stress IF, this quote from Tolkien about how he "rather liked
Conan" is true, it sounds like something someone would say if they
either didn't want to be thought of as ignorant of the Conan tales when
in fact they were, or as a throw away comment to placate someone and not
insult them. In any case, I wouldn't put much weight to Tolkien's
statement. It's too thin and flimsy.
This might be a good question for the various Tolkien discussion groups.
You'd figure that if Tolkien really liked Conan, that there would be
some other references in his letters or other biographical sources...
(Incidentally, for those new to this thread, the quote that Tolkien
rather liked Conan can be found in the book DARK VALLEY DESTINY as
well. Also written and edited by de Camp)
--
Visit the "one true" Conan page... The Barbarian
Keep!
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6570/
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Theodore Csernica
> I've always been suspicious of this quote as well.
I seem to recall from _Letters_ that Tolkien once mentioned that the
only modern fiction he really enjoyed was by Asimov. IIRC there's not a
mention of Howard anywhere in his published correspondence.
-- Chris Csernica
DailyRich
>influence that Robert E. Howard's work had on Tolkien's work. None.
>Nada. If Tolkien really liked REH's work, you'd expect to see something.
I don't think this is necessarily true. There are plenty of films and books
I've liked, even admired, but they don't slip into the things I write.
Especially if, stylistically, they're completely different from what I'm
writing, which is pretty much the case with Tolkien and Howard.
DailyRich
The Pangea Reunification Army. One World. Literally.
the softrat
wrote:
>I can't see any
>influence that Robert E. Howard's work had on Tolkien's work. None.
>Nada. If Tolkien really liked REH's work, you'd expect to see something.
Not me! (Well, they all used swords, didn't they?) None of my writing
is anything like JRRT who is my favorite author. My writing always
turns out like very bad New Yorker. I am afraid that any attempt to
write fantasy would turn out like John Jakes or Lin Carter, so I
don't.
the softrat
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Drugs cause amnesia and other things I can't remember...
Douglas Henderson
Well, the Sword-wielding Arwen certainly seems to be Howard inspired.
So Tolkien must have been influenced.
I mean the movie is based on Tolkien, right?
::snicker::
Kent
> Well, the Sword-wielding Arwen certainly seems to be Howard inspired.
>
> So Tolkien must have been influenced.
>
> I mean the movie is based on Tolkien, right?
>
> ::snicker::
<LOL> That's it! Arwen isn't a reincarntion of Luthien in the film...
she's a reincarnation of Red Sonja (double joke here for the clever)
bwe...@home.com
the conan stories. That is all that was said. He could have read a few and
liked them without thinking they were shakspear or something as some on
these NGs tend to think. He simply said he ejoyed them, now if the quote is
not as I have said I will admit I was wrong. As for the influence, Terry
Brooks enjoye Grisham novels, Terry rights fantasy grisham rights political
thrillers and science fiction so you probably won't see to much similarites
in there work. A comic book artist was at comic con and he was saying that
he enjoyed Anima but when came to his own art it wasn't his thing. So just
liking another authors work doesn't mean your going to necesarily add his
style to yours. Conan and LOTR are different. Lord of the Rings are classic
fairytail style, elves, fairies, goblins, orcs, Conan is big guy with a
sword cutting down wizards and gods when they get in his way, (not put down
either one) so there fantasy are different.
aguaman wrote:
> In article <66tfi0...@pobox.com>,
> David Gentzel <gen...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > Kent <tok...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > >Wanderer wrote:
> > >> In _Literary Swordsmen and Sorcerers_ Tolkien is quoted as having
> said
> > >> that he had read and enjoyed the Conan stories.
> > >
> > >There we go!! Who wrote/edited it? Must track this one down!!
> >
> > Why none other than that bastion of careful and thorough research...
> > L. Sprague de Camp! And the previous reference was to DARK VALLEY
> DESTINY,
> > another de Camp "research" job.
> >
> > So, anyone have a *real* reference to the Tolkien quote?
>
> I've always been suspicious of this quote as well. I can't see any
> influence that Robert E. Howard's work had on Tolkien's work. None.
> Nada. If Tolkien really liked REH's work, you'd expect to see something.
Jim Mann
bwe...@home.com wrote in message <39048971...@home.com>...
>As for the influence, Terry
>Brooks enjoye Grisham novels, Terry rights fantasy grisham rights political
>thrillers and science fiction so you probably won't see to much similarites
>in there work.
Are you thinking of Clancy rather than Grisham. Grisham doesn't write SF or
political thrillers. Besides, saying that Clancy "rights" political
thrillers sounds better.
A comic book artist was at comic con and he was saying that
>he enjoyed Anima but when came to his own art it wasn't his thing. So just
>liking another authors work doesn't mean your going to necesarily add his
>style to yours. Conan and LOTR are different. Lord of the Rings are
classic
>fairytail style, elves, fairies, goblins, orcs,
Fairy tale style? I don't think that describes The Lord of the Rings at
all.
---
Jim Mann
Bill Jackson
<bwe...@home.com> wrote in message news:39048971...@home.com...
> The quote that was written in this thread earlier simply said he liked
> the conan stories. That is all that was said. He could have read a few
and
> liked them without thinking they were shakspear or something as some on
> these NGs tend to think. He simply said he ejoyed them, now if the quote
is
> Brooks enjoye Grisham novels, Terry rights fantasy grisham rights
political
> thrillers and science fiction so you probably won't see to much
similarites
that
> he enjoyed Anima but when came to his own art it wasn't his thing. So
just
> liking another authors work doesn't mean your going to necesarily add his
> style to yours. Conan and LOTR are different. Lord of the Rings are
classic
This depends on when Tolkein might have read Howard. If it was in the
originally Weird Tales, then maybe it would have a influence LOTR. If it was
in the Gnome Press editions, then I don't see how it cold have much. Seems
like I remember that The Ring Trilogy was finished by the early '50s, so...
Or maybe Tolkein read the British edition of "A Gent from Bear Creek",
and THAT was the Howard work he rather liked...
Bill
Kent
bwe...@home.com wrote:
>
> The quote that was written in this thread earlier simply said he liked
> the conan stories. That is all that was said. He could have read a few and
> liked them without thinking they were shakspear or something as some on
> these NGs tend to think. He simply said he ejoyed them, now if the quote is
> not as I have said I will admit I was wrong.
No, no, no...my original attempt to find out where Tolkien said he was
influenced by Howard did not originate with anything you or, indeed, the
newsgroup as a whole posted...although the discussion I was arguing in
was inspired by a comment in a totally different thread and long ago
(don't ask which or who....our converstion only started with the post
and then got into other things). I just put up my original question to
this NG and the Tolkien NG just to see if anyone had a reference for
this "quote", since so many of you at both NGs are really into the
details of the authors, I thought I'd better be absolutely sure of my
facts before continuing to say "No, you're wrong..." to my friend about
this. Needless to say, she's now conceded due to the overwhelming lack
of evidence that Tolkien pattened Middle-Earth off of Hyboria (her
contention).
David Sulger
>I can't see any influence that Robert E.
>Howard's work had on Tolkien's work.
I find the claim that Tolkien was a big fan of Howard's to be a little
far-fetched myself. Tolkien was a linguist and a professor of medieval
literature. I find it somewhat difficult to believe that he'd be a huge
fan of American pulp fiction of the '30s. For him to be influenced by
Howard in any way, he would have had to have read some of his earliest
stuff, and I doubt Conan was early enough to have been much of an
influence. After all the character appeared in 1933, when Tolkien's
original mythology from BoLT was being tranformed into the ealiest draft
of the Silmarillion. There's also the fact that Tolkien's earliest
writings on ME popped up around 1917 or so, nearly a decade before much
of Howard's fantasy writings were first published. No, this idea of
Tolkien being inspired by Howard seens to me like fantasy itself.
--Dave
Sharru-ken
Red Sonja?! No, please!!! RS is far too brutal and vindictive.
RS cannot readily be imagined (by me at any rate) as having the
wit to try conclusions with Sauron, far less to defeat him. She
is much more a sort of female Arnie.
When I saw the title of the thread, I thought immediately of
Howard...the Duck. (Well, it is sci-fi ...of a sort).
>
>
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