Support subtitles
Mason Proulx
I have never had any problem with dubs before, but lately It has become
a nuiscance. The other day I rented Lupin III the Castle of Cagliostro.
It was a great movie but something kept me from fully ejoying the movie,
and that was the fact that it was a horrible dub. The voice actors were
mediocre at best and didn't fit the characters. I found myself cringing
every time I heard Jigen's voice which was horribly chosen and I would
begin to resent everytime they called Lupin, "Wolf". "Rupan" I can take
but not "Wolf". It wouldn't look as bad on a subtitle but hearing it
from the crappy voice actors that Streamline usually employ made it
sickening.
For about a year I have been getting my Ranma spoonfed to me
by Viz. I had little concept of what the japanese Seiyuu were like or
that some things had changed in the translation. I used to think that
the Ranma voice actors Viz chose were good but now I look for only the
subtitled Ranma tapes which because of Viz's policies, I must wait
forever for the next one. I enjoy a subtitled anime a whole lot more
than any dub.I feel that I'm getting the real thing and not some altered
facsimile. And now that they are releasing Maison Ikkoku, I'll have to wait
longer than neccessary for them to release the subtitled ones (AKA collectors
editions)
There is an anime festival in ottawa for the next few weeks.
When I checked what was showing, nearly everything was dubbed. If a
true connosieur of anime was running the show there wouldn't be a single
english word coming out of the theatres. The fact is I don't enjoy dubs
anymore. I used to say to people like me that they are just being too
picky but now I won't bring myself to rent the dubbed Wings of Honnemise
when I already own and love the subbed one. I feel it might ruin it.
So I say keep those dubs out of our comic shops and video stores. Buy
Subtitled productions exclusively.
|==================== Mason Proulx: =====================|
pro...@ottawa.net
AKA Mason Ikkoku
-Full time otaku of Romantic comedy manga and anime and of japanese music.
-Slacker computer graphics artist based in Canada with too much time on his
hands
(and loving it)
-Loves heavy metal, hates dance music with a passion.
-Building the Rumiko Takahashi The Goddess of Manga ( excuse me AMG lovers)
temple of worship.
-Believes that Masamune Shirow is a freakin' genius.
-A missionary spreading the glorious word of anime and manga to the
masses in a world of bland superhero comics and unsofisticated animation.
-Has a vocabulary of 425 Japanese words but has no clue how to use them
in a scentence.
-Nabiki Tendo Fan (patiently waiting for the storyline where she becomes
Ranma's fiancee.(No this is not wishful thinking, it actually happens
later on in the series)
-On a big ego trip from this OVERSIZED electronic signature.
-Ranma1/2, Maison Ikkoku, Ah! My Goddess and Kimagure Orange Road Rock!
Lodoss War, Wings of Honnemise, 3x3 eyes and Lupin III are cool too.
I am still looking for that KOR singing heart^2 CD set.
|===================================================|
Invid fan
>Subtitled productions exclusively.
Well, to each his own. I have a large, legal, anime collection that
consists of dubs and subs. Each has its pros and cons. Where I disagree
with you is the idea that dubs should be kept out of video stores. On the
contrary, I want my local rental places to stock the dubs. That way I can
watch them, and evaluate the quality of the acting and translation before
deciding whether to buy them. The question is one of choice. I enjoy a
number of Streamline releases, but do wish they would sub more. However, I
can't get too angry with any company that puts out a ROBOTECH subbed
Perfect Collection ^_^
***********************************************************
Chris Mack This is a test of the emergency sig system
'Invid fan' If this had been a real sig you would have
read something witty and inteligent
***********************************************************
David Boeren
Let's be clear here. The problem is not stores having dubbed anime. I
doubt that very many people seriously care if they carry dubbed anime at
all. The REAL issue is when they DON'T carry subbed anime. Hey, why should
I mind them having some dubbed BGC as long as the subs are still there for
me to enjoy? Problems come when:
1. Stores only stock dubs
2. Companies only produce dubs
3. Companies produce dubs, but make a sub many many months later so they
can say "See? We're making subs!"
I don't care if they make versions with all kind of messed up
translations, mixed-and-matched video, and whatever they want, as long as
they also make a faithful sub of good quality.
I completely agree about subs being preferable to dubs though.
I do not buy large amounts of US anime personally. First, many of my
favorite series aren't out in the US. Second, some of them are out, but
only as dubs or poorly made subs or in some other form which is not
acceptable. Third, I prefer to buy LDs, not VHS. Not all well-subbed
anime is out on LD. Anyway, I end up spending a ton more money and buying
the imported japanese LDs instead. It's very expensive, but what else can
I do? There are some US LDs which I would like to get someday though.
Notably BGC and Tenchi. However, the Tenchi LDs are ridden with all
kinds of wierdness, so I may not buy them. I don't mind the early ones
being expensive. Well, I mind, but I can live with it. But I cannot
deal with the CC subtitles, and I especially will never ever buy the
early episodes which were made with "americanized" dub scripts. Sorry.
I love the series very much. I want very much to buy it. But I love it
too much to see it in this form. I will probably buy 8+9 and 10+11 someday
though, since I haven't been able to see them yet.
I'm also interested in subbed LDs of Record of Lodoss Wars, but I have
never yet hear any word of an LD release of it. From what I've heard, if
there is one we can expect it in about a year or so. Oh, well.
EBWarg
Boeren) wrote:
>However, the Tenchi LDs are ridden with all
>kinds of wierdness, so I may not buy them. I don't mind the early ones
>being expensive. Well, I mind, but I can live with it. But I cannot
>deal with the CC subtitles, and I especially will never ever buy the
>early episodes which were made with "americanized" dub scripts. Sorry.
YES! Someone else who dislikes CC "subtitles"!
>I'm also interested in subbed LDs of Record of Lodoss Wars, but I have
>never yet hear any word of an LD release of it. From what I've heard, if
>there is one we can expect it in about a year or so. Oh, well.
It gets worse: USMC has switched to CC "subtitles" for their LDs. Maybe
we can nag them back to using "real" ones.
>Let's be clear here. The problem is not stores having dubbed anime. I
>doubt that very many people seriously care if they carry dubbed anime at
>all. The REAL issue is when they DON'T carry subbed anime. Hey, why
>should
>I mind them having some dubbed BGC as long as the subs are still there
>for
>me to enjoy? Problems come when:
>
>1. Stores only stock dubs
>2. Companies only produce dubs
>3. Companies produce dubs, but make a sub many many months later so
>they can say "See? We're making subs!"
One way to get stores (at least rental places) to stock subs is to
recommend titles to them. I'm compiling a "Top 10" list of commercially
available anime for just such a purpose.
The guidelines are as follows:
1. Only titles commercially available in this country may be recommended.
2. Order is not important, ten is merely the suggested number and the
maximum.
3. If a title is only commercially available in a format you dislike (i.e.
dubbed or SUBTITLES IN ALL CAPS), don't include it.
4. If a title is available in more than one format, be specific (obviously
this usually means dubbed or subbed, but it also applies to titles such as
the dubbed AKIRA, which is available in both letterboxed and pan-and-scan,
although Carl calls the latter "Full Screen"). If you aren't specific,
I'll assume you mean subtitled (and otherwise speculate...).
5. A series can count as a single title, but (when applicable) specify TV
series, Movies, or OAVs.
6. I know there are rumors going around that U.S. Renditions has gone
belly up, but although their recent output leaves much to be desired, they
*are* still in business, and thus qualify for the list.
7. If you've already voted, please don't do so again
Please E-Mail me your lists no later than midnight, August 31 (I'm
re-posting this periodically in the hopes of getting as wide a response as
possible).
I'll post the results as soon as they're tabulated.
E. Bernhard Warg
Overly-vocal Otaku, PSSFS Newsletter Editor and central Pennsylvania's
leading expert on THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW
@8) {It stands for "Ernst")
Kevin Krimmel
Anyway I hope the dubs get better after the the Pilot.
C-ko Kotobuki
>In Message-ID: <akemiDD...@netcom.com> ak...@netcom.com (David
>Boeren) wrote:
>
>>However, the Tenchi LDs are ridden with all
>>kinds of wierdness, so I may not buy them. I don't mind the early ones
>>being expensive. Well, I mind, but I can live with it. But I cannot
>>deal with the CC subtitles, and I especially will never ever buy the
>>early episodes which were made with "americanized" dub scripts. Sorry.
>
>YES! Someone else who dislikes CC "subtitles"!
Count me in on that too, they SUCK!
>
>>I'm also interested in subbed LDs of Record of Lodoss Wars, but I have
>>never yet hear any word of an LD release of it. From what I've heard, if
>>there is one we can expect it in about a year or so. Oh, well.
>
>It gets worse: USMC has switched to CC "subtitles" for their LDs. Maybe
>we can nag them back to using "real" ones.
We can only hope so.
C-ko
David Boeren
: In Message-ID: <akemiDD...@netcom.com> ak...@netcom.com (David
: Boeren) wrote:
: >However, the Tenchi LDs are ridden with all
: >kinds of wierdness, so I may not buy them. I don't mind the early ones
: >being expensive. Well, I mind, but I can live with it. But I cannot
: >deal with the CC subtitles, and I especially will never ever buy the
: >early episodes which were made with "americanized" dub scripts. Sorry.
: YES! Someone else who dislikes CC "subtitles"!
Well, I'm saving up my pennies to buy the import Tenchi LDs. Saving up a
LOT of pennies too, the discs are slightly more than double the price of
the US versions. Of course, the one saving grace of CC is that in a pinch
the US discs can simulate cheaper unsubbed imports. I'd still prefer real
imports though, once I win the lottery!
: >I'm also interested in subbed LDs of Record of Lodoss Wars, but I have
: >never yet hear any word of an LD release of it. From what I've heard, if
: >there is one we can expect it in about a year or so. Oh, well.
: It gets worse: USMC has switched to CC "subtitles" for their LDs. Maybe
: we can nag them back to using "real" ones.
Really? Well, I did just buy one volume of the import Lodoss LDs anyway.
I got tired of waiting since everyone says it would be a year or so before
we could expect any Lodoss LDs from CPM. Hey, please surprise me with
some really nice LDs real soon! But I'm not holding my breath since every
time I've called them and asked they tell me there are no plans for LDs of
the series.
Anyway, I'm mostly going with import LDs. I am not wild about the prices
but it's better than the alternatives and it also means I can get series
that are not available in the US. I will simply NOT buy any VHS, since I
want my collection to last and look good. There are some US LDs I'm
planning to get someday, such as BGC. I'm not totally anti-US here, I just
don't want to buy US LDs which are poorly done. That's all. Hey, I WISH
that I didn't have to buy imports. It sure would save me a huge pile of
money here!
EBWarg
fan) wrote:
> ...However, I can't get too angry with any company that puts out a
>ROBOTECH subbed Perfect Collection ^_^
Oh, can't you? Aside from the fact that the songs aren't subbed and the
credits aren't translated, each tape only has two subbed eps *and*
contains the corresponding dubbed ones. Considering that the dubs are
available separately, this is completely unnecessary, even if if I wanted
the dubs (which I don't). Also, it's taking them forever to put them out,
and even with my limited knowlege of Japanese I've noticed questionable
translations.
***********************************************************
Chris Mack This is a test of the emergency sig system
'Invid fan' If this had been a real sig you would have
read something witty and inteligent
***********************************************************
E. Bernhard Warg
Neil Scott Nadelman
: In Message-ID: <40r3os$7...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> invi...@aol.com (Invid
: fan) wrote:
: > ...However, I can't get too angry with any company that puts out a
: >ROBOTECH subbed Perfect Collection ^_^
: Oh, can't you? Aside from the fact that the songs aren't subbed and the
: credits aren't translated, each tape only has two subbed eps *and*
: contains the corresponding dubbed ones. Considering that the dubs are
: available separately, this is completely unnecessary, even if if I wanted
: the dubs (which I don't). Also, it's taking them forever to put them out,
: and even with my limited knowlege of Japanese I've noticed questionable
: translations.
: ***********************************************************
: Chris Mack This is a test of the emergency sig system
: 'Invid fan' If this had been a real sig you would have
: read something witty and inteligent
:
: ***********************************************************
--
FRUSTRATION - (n.) Working on a volume of the Robotech Perfect
collection, knowing that the translation they gave you is flawed, yet
being under orders not to inject any of your own "interpretation" into
it because these scripts "reflect the true intentions of the original
writer" and are to be used even when they don't match up to what's being
said on screen.`
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman | The blood still pulses in my veins.
----------------------------------------| The sun, still at its zenith.
-- NEW ADDRESS! -- | And I... I, Antonius Block...
doc...@user1.channel1.com | Am playing chess with Death.
----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Zen12345
how I can upload it to a newsgroup...Thanks!
Kirati Laisathit
>
>>I'm also interested in subbed LDs of Record of Lodoss Wars, but I have
>>never yet hear any word of an LD release of it. From what I've heard, if
>>there is one we can expect it in about a year or so. Oh, well.
>
>It gets worse: USMC has switched to CC "subtitles" for their LDs. Maybe
>we can nag them back to using "real" ones.
Errr... actually I was hoping that all companies will start to follow
Pioneer on its LD format. Yes, I support CC "subtitles". I suppose
whatever I say will never convince you guys of why CC is not such
a bad idea. I'll throw in my two cents anyway.
The biggest problem I have with "real" subtitle is that, it is
too permanent. Face it, how many times do you need to see the subtitle
text before you can memorize all the dialog? three or maybe four times.
So, after the third or fourth viewing, these "real" subtitles become
nothing more than useless "artifacts" on the TV screen. With CC, you
can always turn it off, assuming that you can turn it on to begin
with.
I know, many complaints center around the issue of not being able to
turn it on due to the lack of CC capability in the TV. Hey... if it
makes you feel better, I don't have CC in my TV either.
Another issue about doing bilingual LD with "real" subtitle on one
side and dubbed on the other is the necessity to use CLV for 60 minutes
discs. Granted, I wouldn't pay $5 more for a CAV disc. However for
the same price, I'll take CAV over CLV anytime.
Oh well, that's my two cents. I guess that I didn't convince too many
people around here. However, before you totally dismiss the CC subtitle
as a stupid idea, maybe you should consider these few points.
Later...
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
K I R A T I L A I S A T H I T kir...@u.washington.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian Tolentino
>>Boeren) wrote:
>>
>>>However, the Tenchi LDs are ridden with all
>>>kinds of wierdness, so I may not buy them. I don't mind the early
ones
>>>being expensive. Well, I mind, but I can live with it. But I cannot
>>>deal with the CC subtitles, and I especially will never ever buy the
>>>early episodes which were made with "americanized" dub scripts. Sorry.
>>
At what point does it change to a non-"americanized" dub script? I
was absolutely disgusted with the fact that I hated the English voice
actors for Tenchi Muyo #1 and the subtitles/CC only mirrored the
americanized script. Does the Tenchi Muyo series (LD-format) get any
better? If so, when?
David Boeren
[ comments regarding Pioneer's Tenchi LDs clipped ]
: At what point does it change to a non-"americanized" dub script? I
: was absolutely disgusted with the fact that I hated the English voice
: actors for Tenchi Muyo #1 and the subtitles/CC only mirrored the
: americanized script. Does the Tenchi Muyo series (LD-format) get any
: better? If so, when?
I don't own the discs, so someone may want to check me on this. I believe
that discs 1-3 are done with the americanized dub scripts. From #4 onward
are done with more regular scripts. I also would like to note that comments
from a few dozen people who have seen these discs leads me to believe
that Pioneer's sub script isn't anywhere near as good as Nexus's fansub
scripts. But of course you can't buy a Nexus tenchi LD, so what can you
do?
I believe that stop the ALL CAPS TITLING after 1-6. Again, not sure so
you'd better verify this before buying. They are all CC subs, and as far
as anyone can tell they will continue to be CC subs forever.
Two minor points I'd like to make.
1. Since the 1-6 and Mihoshi Special discs only have 30 minutes of video
each for $35 it would have been nice for them to do americanized dub
on one side and a properly translated version on the other. I guess
they just didn't give fans that much credit.
2. On CC subs in general. While I do not think that CC is a very good way
to make subtitled LDs, I *DO* think that it's a pretty good way to make
unsubbed LDs. A CC sub makes an inexpensive alternative to buying the
imported LD, and the Pioneer ones (at least) have video quality which
compares very well to the originals. So while I don't really want to
buy CC subbed LDs to use for watching subtitled anime, I do like the
chance to buy mock-import LDs for half price. Now if only they'd
make CC subs of some of the series I want on LD we'd really be in
business!
Edwin Yoo
: At what point does it change to a non-"americanized" dub script? I
: was absolutely disgusted with the fact that I hated the English voice
: actors for Tenchi Muyo #1 and the subtitles/CC only mirrored the
: americanized script.
hmm, i always thought that the voices afor sasami, washu, ryoko and
mihoshi were VERY good voice acting.. (ie... good like ranma 1/2) the
voices that are a bit weird are tenchi's (sounds like shaggy from scooby
doo) and aeka's. (but she does sound "royal")
hmm, also, comedies when decently dubbed seem better and EVERYTHING else
must be subtitled... i guess in comedy for me at least... i don't want to
"read" the funny lines.. but in drama i definitely want to read the lines
since the voices if a bit off are frustrating.
i watch =tenchi muyo only for ryo-ohki and sasami anyways, the cutest
anime characters imho.
--
************************************************************
| things to watch and do: |
| |
| |
| jackie chan, samo hung, chow yun fat, and jet li. |
| tenchi muyo, ranma 1/2, gunnm, and macross plus. |
| noriko sakai, emily chu, michelle reis, and chimgmy yau. |
| roller blades, paint ball, frisbee, and tae kwon do. |
| |
| because life will suck if you don't. |
| |
| |
************************************************************
Thomas Chan
: I actually will support CC subbing, as long as it is shut-off-able.
: For the simple reason that you won't have the subs there, when digitizing
: images off your LD. If the subs are able to go away, you don't need to
: get the import LD to get sub-less images
CC subtitles are removable. The CC subtitles are on your videotape or
LD; it's just the prescence of a closed-caption decoder box (or in more
recent TV's, the capability is bundled in) that displays them. Just turn
off your CC decoder.
: On Dubbing, as long as I feel the characters are the same w/ the dub I'm
: fine with dubbing. (ranma 1/2 is a good example of what I think is good
: dubbing...I don't think any of the characters are seriously mangled)
: Tenchi Muyo slaughters their characters when they're dubbed...Aeka
: doesn't seem to be a snotty british princess to me when subbed...*shrug*
: Anyway...dubs over nothing, but subs over dubs!
Does anyone happen to know the extent of CC subtitles on *dubbed* anime?
I know Streamline's releases are CC subbed by NCI Captioning (did I get
this name right?), but Viz's Ranma releases (dubbed) don't have CC (last
time I checked). Just wondering, since for the hearing-impaired, or viewers
who don't understand Japanese and yet don't fully understand English at a
native speaker's speed, dubs without accompanying CC subtitles are
virutally inaccessible to them.
Thomas
--
Thomas Chan <tc...@cornell.edu>
http://fandora.resnet.cornell.edu/ (World Wide Web)
---------------------------------------------------
Cornell Japanese Animation Society (CJAS)
Japan-US Association (JUSA) * Cornell Kendo Club
Carson Wilcox
For the simple reason that you won't have the subs there, when digitizing
images off your LD. If the subs are able to go away, you don't need to
get the import LD to get sub-less images
On Dubbing, as long as I feel the characters are the same w/ the dub I'm
David Boeren
: I actually will support CC subbing, as long as it is shut-off-able.
: For the simple reason that you won't have the subs there, when digitizing
: images off your LD. If the subs are able to go away, you don't need to
: get the import LD to get sub-less images
Sorry to tell you, but this is not true. Check out the Tenchi CC LDs
sometime. They have MASSIVE amounts of english text covering much of the
opening and ending songs, and also an english episode title screen a couple
of minutes into the episode. You even get to see them misspell Japanese
names and list them all family-name second.
A CC subbed LD is NOT the same as an import LD. Believe me, I wish it was!
Oh, how I wish I could buy LDs for half the original cost! Nice dream, but
it ain't true. Another issue is that the import LDs are almost always
significantly better video quality. Pioneer's are about equivalent,
though they have some sound problems on some episodes. But many other
companies just aren't as sharp, and what are we buying LDs for after all?
If all you need is some quick-and-dirty footage for a music video, then CC
subs are plenty for your needs. But you won't fool anyone into thinking
that it's the import if you're just watching them.