The need routing UI improvements

[Evgeniy Kachalin]

1) See the map, move it.

2) Press "Show route from here".

 a) I get: Please select destination first

 b) I need: save this point as a start point.

3) Press "Set as destination".

 a) I get: Directions with a default car routing selected.

 b) I need: use last routing mode (bike) and do not ask at all or just to show the last mode already selected.

4) I press: Show

 a) I get: nothing happens.

 b) I need: see the route

5) Repeat step 4.

 a) I see the route. Repeating of the step 4 is some kind unpredictable.

6) Press "Show route from here"

 a) I get: Directions with a default car routing selected.

 b) I need: immediately show the recalculated route and use the selection from the step 3.

7) I see the route. 

 a) I get: I see the route and the end point.

 b) I need: to see the start point (mark) too.

8) I press: another point and press: add as waypoint.

 a) I get: some table with points numbers and with the distances which I cannot understand.

 b) I need: see the table with the distance from the start (at least), to the end. I'm not even talking about "traveling salesman problem". Further ordering of points appears like hell. I just shift unnamed points with the random distances.

I cannot move points too. But this needs additional programming, so this is OK for now.

All the items 1-8 could be easily fixed. Thank you for your attention.

[Evgeniy Kachalin]

3b) I get: "current location is not defined".

[Martin Gregor]

I feel your pain. I posted several times about the chaos with waypoints. It is still too complicated for me. Also when I select a route and want to insert a way point, I get the info about the added waypoint which also has another line saying " Favorite:  one of the names of my favorite places" which is several miles away and I do not want to have anything to do with that favorite place at this moment. It is confusing. The second line in the waypoint (if any, should be the location of that waypoint not one of my favorite places.) Anyway, there is another poster Nico, who also has a lot of common sense suggestions regarding waypoint. I use them a lot.

Martin

[Nico W]

In the post "release 1.4" I made a few suggestions including an interface of how to deal with waypoints. Please take a look at it.

Then there is a post about U/I interface in which I made a suggestion to a confusing problem: in setting you select a profile (say pedestrian), then with setting "destination" you click "car", and with a waypoint you click "bicycle", according to which parameter is the route being calculated? Supposedly pedestrian since this is selected in "settings" and shows on left bottom on screen. 

 

I totally agree with 2b, yet for step 2a I would like to add 2a.1: "show route to here".

 

4. Show: should show the route AND show the directions AND initiate voice commands. Follow should mark your covered trail (like the tire tracks or footprints when you look behind you) = like a visible GPX recording. 

[Hardy]

 

There are currently some bugs in the "Set as destination / Add as waypoint" arena, I am looking at as I have time. MAybe Victor can also help.

 

See documentation here:

- Problem wirth display names: http://code.google.com/p/osmand/issues/detail?id=1928

- Problem with consistent behavior to just let you chose points without starting a route. http://code.google.com/p/osmand/issues/detail?id=1929

[Hardy]

Evgeniy,

Let me address you points in-line below.

Best, Hardy

1) See the map, move it.

2) Press "Show route from here".

 a) I get: Please select destination first

-> True, the assumed logic is that you FIRST sepcify the destination, (which is always required), only THEN specify the ORIGIN (because in 99% it is not required because people want their current position). But you are right - we can improve the handling a bit here. Got a concrete suggestion?

 b) I need: save this point as a start point.

3) Press "Set as destination".

 a) I get: Directions with a default car routing selected.

- > in new app versions "Set as destination" will perform just that (so you can proceed adding more waypoints), while there is a separate button "Directions", staring navigation directly

 b) I need: use last routing mode (bike) and do not ask at all or just to show the last mode already selected.

- > Car is selected if yopu come from "default" map view mode. If you change to "bike" with the little selector near the lower left map corner, bike should be pre-selected

4) I press: Show

-> The function "Follow" (of course) mandates that the app knows where you are, so will automaticaly produce the instructions once a GPS fix is obtained. The function "Show" can be used for any2any routes, so needs an origin specified. If your position is already know, that will be used. If your position is still unknown and also "show route from here" was not used, I think nothing happens apart from a message telling you it does not know what to show ... :-) 

 a) I get: nothing happens.

 b) I need: see the route

5) Repeat step 4.

 a) I see the route. Repeating of the step 4 is some kind unpredictable.

-> I assume it is conected to whether there is a position fix at the time of pressing "Show" or not

6) Press "Show route from here"

 a) I get: Directions with a default car routing selected.

-> if routing was already active, a change of the destinatioin will instantaneously reproduce the route (for the already active same transport means) to the new destination. 

    b) I need: immediately show the recalculated route and use the selection from the step 3.

-> For a fresh navihgation start, use "Stop navigation" or "Dismiss route", then "Clear destination". after these 2 steps all nav options will re-appear for the next navigation.

7) I see the route. 

 a) I get: I see the route and the end point.

 b) I need: to see the start point (mark) too.

-> Yes, it would be nice if we automatically zoomed out to see the total route. Not that if you are in "Follow" mode, you wil automatically see where you are (the start point)

8) I press: another point and press: add as waypoint.

 a) I get: some table with points numbers and with the distances which I cannot understand.

-> There is a bug in the display of this table. The points are stored ok, but their name display is flawed

 b) I need: see the table with the distance from the start (at least), to the end. I'm not even talking about "traveling salesman problem". Further ordering of points appears like hell. I just shift unnamed points with the random distances.

-> Once a route is calculated, look at Menu / Route details, I think this is what you mean

 

[Evgeniy Kachalin]

Let me discuss with you. 

>>1) See the map, move it.

>>2) Press "Show route from here".

 >>a) I get: Please select destination first

-> True, the assumed logic is that you FIRST sepcify the destination, (which is always required), only THEN specify the ORIGIN (because in 99% it is not required because people want their current position). But you are right - we can improve the handling a bit here. Got a concrete suggestion?

This assumption is obvious, though absolutely wrong. My suggestion is to remove all the requirements. First just take the data the user is ready to give you, then, when you have the complete information, do the calculation. The user must not be forced to follow the algorithm, it's the computer who must be forced.

 

- > Car is selected if yopu come from "default" map view mode. If you change to "bike" with the little selector near the lower left map corner, bike should be pre-selected

That is wrong to my opinion. Instead of helping the user, this puts a new dilemma in front of him. The more dilemmas the user has, the more difficult to him is the operation. To my opinion, any commands must be executed immediately, so the user just gets what he wants. If he gets something wrong, he sees: a) used parameters (indicators in the corners of the screen); b) the abilities to change and fine tune the result.

 

4) I press: Show

->  If your position is already know, that will be used. If your position is still unknown and also "show route from here" was not used, I think nothing happens apart from a message telling you it does not know what to show ... :-) 

You just explain me the logic which the software uses. But what I want to explain you that this is not a logic used by a user (a human). The current logic is too complicated, has too many branches and bifurcations. If - then - then - if - then - also - and or - etc. Each this "if-then" operation is not so difficult for a human brain, but it just annoys him. If it's possible, to my opinion, it is necessary to avoid dilemmas and questions, especially when they repeat each time.

 

>>5) Repeat step 4.

>> a) I see the route. Repeating of the step 4 is some kind unpredictable.

-> I assume it is conected to whether there is a position fix at the time of pressing "Show" or not

This is a bug which needs to be traced and fixed. Sometimes the route is just randomly not calculated.

 After fixing these things (or taking the positive or negative decision) there will be a reason to discuss further. I will try to imagine how tthe interface and the user experience may look like in other topic in this group.

[Nico W]

Hardy, to solve Evgeniy's problems here is the solution:

 

After clicking on the map 2 functions need to be added to the menu: "Set as starting point" and "calculate route TO here", regardless if a destination has been set, and without the need to appoint a destination (so you can leave the destination somewhere else).

 

The menu would look like this:

Set as destination

set as starting point

add as waypoint

calculate route from here

calculate route to here

....

 

To fix the waypoint mess he is talking about you could use the interface I had designed somewhere else, with waypoints listed as lat/lon, address or name (POI). Interchangeable, and ability to calculate a route between these waypoints. Another program I have on my phone lets you change color and symbol of waypoints, that would put this over the top.

 

The user profile should not automatically default back to "car". Many users use it only for hiking or biking since these activities can take you easily out of reach of a cell phone tower, that is where Osmand shines.

Once a profile has been selected it should stay that way, and when changed maybe a question "are you sure?"

 

So in "settings" you select default, car, bike, pedestrian. It shows left corner. clicking on this should bring up the question "do you want to change mode of transportation? Yes / No (this is a safe guard since the phone's menu button is right below this symbol). Yes-bring it right to menu in "settings" where this can be changed. No- nothing happens, dialogue disappears.

 

You have now a whole thread of people all complaining about the same thing and making suggestions.

Why not design this and set it out as a beta test for a few people.? If 4 people complain, there are hundreds more.....

On Monday, June 10, 2013 4:59:06 AM UTC-7, Evgeniy Kachalin wrote:

[Hardy]

Waypoint sorting and waypoint name display now pretty much fixed in latest nightly. No new funtionality yet, but some major bug fixing (see Issue 1928).

 

So Nico, are you saying the transport mode choice should NOT show up at the time of starting a navigation, but can only be preset prior to that in the settings?

 

[Nico W]

To me the confusing part is when I go to settings -> user profile -> pedestrian. This supposedly is the map viewing mode and pedestrian features show up better than in the other modes. This is what shows on the map in the bottom left corner. After setting a destination or a starting point / waypoint I get asked what mode of transport I want, and I can choose 2 different ones for one route , so now nobody knows how the navigation is being done (say first pop-up you touch the bike, last pop-up the car, is the navigation controlled as a bike route or a car route?).Remember, user profile is still pedestrian.

So my suggestions:

1. is that the user profile mode from settings should also be the navigation mode. If you are taking the car to go for a walk you can set the profile for car, and once you get there touch the icon in the left bottom of the screen, get a pop-up asking if you want to change mode 'yes / no" and by hitting yes make it go straight to the user profile to change it to pedestrian. Now the navigation and mapviewing are both set for walking.

 

2. If this idea is not a good one we can leave it as it is but only have the navigation function only show once, so with the map view setting profile set for pedestrian, as soon as you set a destination, starting point or waypoint the pop-up shows up with the car / bike / walk boxes, whichever one you select will set the navigation mode for every other action, until navigation is cancelled. This will prevent the pop-up to show every time. 

 

It is a neat feature to have a pedestrian or bicycle oriented map on which you can navigate using the car, or a car map on which you can create a walking route, nobody else has that.

On Monday, June 10, 2013 4:59:06 AM UTC-7, Evgeniy Kachalin wrote:

[Evgeniy Kachalin]

> get a pop-up asking if you want to change mode 'yes / no" and by hitting yes make it go straight to the user profile to change it to pedestrian. Now the navigation

Any questions must be avoided, especially in mobile interfaces. If there's need for a yes|no question, the interface is designed wrong. 

You are talking about two entities: 1) Routing mode; 2) Rendering mode.

These two can be related (linked) or unrelated (unlinked). For a route displayed on the screen there must be a possibility to change it's type.

Additionally, there have to be more than 3 routing modes (profiles). To avoid highways (MTB) or not (road bike), etc.

[Evgeniy Kachalin]

> a route displayed on the screen there must be a possibility to change it's type.

Here's how I see it (yes it's fantastic): I put my finger on the route and hold it. Immediately I get a pop-up menu with three (or more) profiles/icons, I move my finger to a desired profile/icon, then I put my finger off. The pop-up menu disappears, the route is immediately recalculated.

[Hardy]

Nico, jus to clarify the current behavior: The "transport means" in the routing dialogue is pre-selected according what you chosen before you started the navigation dialogue. (If not, it is a bug). But at that point you can of course leave it or change it.

 

If you then chose to change the transport means in the navuigation dialogue, the map view mode (of course) also changes accordingly (until the navigaton is finished). Again, if not, it is a bug ...

[Nico W]

Hardy, "The "transport means" in the routing dialogue is pre-selected according what you chosen before you started the navigation dialogue."

This pre-selection is done in settings->user profile. Right? That selects "a user profile with custom MAP and NAVIGATION settings" (=small text under the title User Profile). So I select pedestrian, and I should see pedestrian oriented MAP features and pedestrian NAVIGATION. Right? It shows bottom left corner and can only be changed here in "settings".

 

Now if I pick a point and click "set as destination" and click  on the bike, the left bottom corner icon does not change, it is still set as pedestrian and according to the alinea above still have pedestrian navigation. So what happens if I click the bike symbol?

 

Now I touch the map again, touch "show route from here" and now choose "car". what happens? According to the  description in the first alinea I still have pedestrian oriented "custom map and navigation settings", with the lower left icon still showing a pedestrian.

 

So again: what happens if I click bike (when setting destination) and car (when "show route from here")? Obviously it can not be both, can't drive a bike on the freeway, can't ride a car on a bicycle trail. Seeing it on a pedestrian map: possible.

Is it:

a. going to calculate a pedestrian route based on my "user profile (pedestrian)" setting, regardless of the transportation means icons that I touch

b. going to calculate a bike route as this was the first icon I clicked on (when setting destination)..... on a pedestrian oriented map

c going to calculate a car route since this was the last icon I clicked on (when clicking "route from here")..... on a pedestrian oriented map.

 

If Osmand is created to see different means of transportation on a specific map, like possibility b, I should not see the pop-up again (possibility c should not exist). Since I touched bike I should now see a bike route on a pedestrian map.

 

In the year I have used Osmand I have always selected a user profile in settings, and clicked the same icon when setting destinations / waypoints / navigating from here. Simply to avoid the confusion described above.

 

 

On Monday, June 10, 2013 4:59:06 AM UTC-7, Evgeniy Kachalin wrote:

[Nico W]

Since they talk about the same subject, could this thread be merged with this one: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/osmand/ebw4Ntx-QXY

On Monday, June 10, 2013 4:59:06 AM UTC-7, Evgeniy Kachalin wrote:

[Hardy]

Nico, you can currently change the navigation profile either in Settings /General (as you describe), or by directly tapping on the little default(looks like a pedestrian)/car/bike/pedestrian quick selector in the lower left map corner.

 

(Chosing the "pedstrian-soccer player" is the map view=default profile, the only one which does NOT imply and pre-select and transport mode)

 

What counts is always the LAST selection before you start a navigation, it does not matter what you had when you selected a destination or waypoints.

 

But there is room for improvement, I agree. Please see my thoughts A-H in this thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/osmand/pFULffz6zgQ