Green Card Lottery- Final One?
William J. Twomey
>Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One!
>THE DEADLINE HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
Has anybody else noticed this post?
Its posted everywhere. If its crossposted at all, its crossposted
to two or three unrelated newsgroups newsgroups.
I whined to ro...@indirect.com, anybody else? What is indirect.com?
So anybody wanna start a betting pool? Winner picks the time
closest to the death of netnews.
Bill Twomey
>The Green Card Lottery is a completely legal program giving away a
>certain annual allotment of Green Cards to persons born in certain
>countries. The lottery program was scheduled to continue on a
...
>For FREE information via Email, send request to
Complain to:
>cs...@indirect.com
>
>
>--
>*****************************************************************
>Canter & Siegel, Immigration Attorneys
>3333 E Camelback Road, Ste 250, Phoenix AZ 85018 USA
Or fax your complaints to:
>cs...@indirect.com telephone (602)661-3911 Fax (602) 451-7617
Gregory S. Rogers
newsgroups than I'd care to count (>50? >100?). The *first* time it
was posted it said "FREE info and assistance available". I questioned
the poster and (despite the fact they claim to be lawyers) got them
to admit that they do provide FREE info but do charge $25/hr do do the
required paperwork. So, essentially it was a come-on (and it was medium
on the hype scale). I complained to admin ("and man, many others")
there after they did not cancel the post. The admin replied saying they
would have them cancel is. They did.
I won't take action this time.
Feel free to do so again. Ask for them to cancel the articles. For those
of you who have time, it would be interesting to report a number of
how many newsgroups the guy posted to, and which. I looked in 5 groups
and they were there, I won't say which. I'm fairly certain they are everywhere.
--Scott
Heikki Suonsivu
In article <Co5FD...@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> btw...@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (William J. Twomey) writes:
>THE DEADLINE HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
Has anybody else noticed this post?
Yes.
Its posted everywhere. If its crossposted at all, its crossposted
to two or three unrelated newsgroups newsgroups.
It seems to be in every newsgroup, they are still popping up at intervals
hinting that there is a slow uucp/slip connection which slows his flooding
a bit. In other words, the situation is still on.
I whined to ro...@indirect.com, anybody else? What is indirect.com?
My nslookup says no mx records, which may or may not mean that you mail
goes to /dev/null. I Cc:d to postm...@news.springlink.net, which seems
to be the site next to indirect.com (picked it from Path of the article).
I have a faint memory of seeing similar mass posting before with similar
subject. That is, they may be repeat offenders.
--
Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND,
h...@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN
Michael Dobson
>
newsgroups with crosspostings to local and regional hierachies. None of
the mainstream newsgroups I saw this in was appropriate for this post.
Since this seems to be in the same vein as the Clarance Thomas IV debacle,
anyone care to clean up this mess for the same reasons?
Mike
--
LCDR M. Dobson | NetNews Admin net.usuhs.mil
Experimental Hematology Dept | dob...@net.usuhs.mil
Armed Forces Radiobiology |
Research Institute | I don't have enough rank to speak for DoD
Olaf Titz
Michael Dobson <dob...@net.usuhs.mil> wrote:
> newsgroups with crosspostings to local and regional hierachies. None of
> the mainstream newsgroups I saw this in was appropriate for this post.
> Since this seems to be in the same vein as the Clarance Thomas IV debacle,
> anyone care to clean up this mess for the same reasons?
It is, in fact, worse. This guy has done the same thing before, and he
has been asked before to stop it a few weeks ago. (If I remember
correctly, he has been thrown out of one system apparently for this
reason already.)
Talk about a repeated offence. Stop it. Now.
Olaf
--
___ ol...@bigred.ka.sub.org - uk...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
__ o <a href="http://rzstud1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uknf/">click</a>
__/<_ also: s_t...@ira.uka.de - uk...@dkauni2.bitnet - praetorius@irc
_)>(_)_________ "now i find that most of the time love's not enough in itself"
David Farley
How many instances have there now been of someone who managed to post
a message to every single newsgroup without crossposting? This has
popped up on every newsgroup I read. David
David Iain Greig
sprintlink.net!indirect.com!root
sprintlink.net!indirect.com!postmaster
sprintlink.net!indirect.com!news
sprintlink.net!indirect.com!cslaw
sprintlink.net!indirect.com!nike
I added a brief note of complaint.
I haven't had them bounce yet. (5 minutes and counting)
Other people who are similarly ticked off might consider doing the same.
I mean, sprintlink MUST know how to find indirect.com...
Grr... three strikes, you're out...
--D.
Chris Walsh
Heikki Suonsivu <h...@cs.hut.fi> wrote:
>
> I whined to ro...@indirect.com, anybody else? What is indirect.com?
####El scripto....
andre:/home/andre/staff/mack23[51]% whois indirect.com
Internet Direct, Inc. (INDIRECT-DOM) INDIRECT.COM
Internet Direct, Inc. (INDIRECT-HST) INDIRECT.COM 198.99.146.5
The InterNIC Registration Services Host ONLY contains Internet Information
(Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.
andre:/home/andre/staff/mack23[52]% whois 198.99.146
Internet Direct, Inc. (NET-INDIRECT)
1366 E. Thomas Road, Suite 210
Phoenix, AZ 85014
Netname: INDIRECT
Netnumber: 198.99.146.0
Coordinator:
Wheelhouse, Jeffrey D. (JW44) je...@INDIRECT.COM
(602) 274-0100
Domain System inverse mapping provided by:
NS1.INDIRECT.COM 165.247.1.3
ICM1.ICP.NET 192.94.207.66
Record last updated on 23-Mar-94.
The InterNIC Registration Services Host ONLY contains Internet Information
(Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.
### finis
Chris
Ian Jackson
The `introductory documents' I referred to are the current contents of
news.announce.newusers, which I sent only to postm...@indirect.com
and ni...@indirect.com.
Others may wish to do likewise.
Ian Jackson.
From iwj10 Tue Apr 12 17:14:11 1994 BST
To: postm...@indirect.com, postm...@news.sprintlink.net
Cc: ni...@indirect.com
Subject: Advertising should not be posted to USENET.
Bcc: iwj10
I enclose a copy of a posting to alt.sources.patches made by one of
your users.
This is clearly in violation of the charter of the group.
It also looks suspiciously like a fish for a commercial service.
Both are completely unacceptable.
I demand that you cancel the posting forthwith and post an apology to
alt.sources.d.
I shall send you under separate cover some introductory material on
the USENET that you obviously need to read.
Ian Jackson.
Path: lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!qmw-dcs!qmw!demon!news2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!indirect.com!nike
From: ni...@indirect.com (Laurence Canter)
Newsgroups: alt.sources.patches
Subject: Green Card Lottery- Final One?
Date: 12 Apr 1994 08:46:11 GMT
Organization: Canter & Siegel
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <2odn4j$6...@herald.indirect.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: id1.indirect.com
[body deleted in this posting to n.a.m & n.g. - iwj]
--
Ian Jackson i...@cam-orl.co.uk ..!uknet!cam-orl!iwj These opinions are my own.
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge CB4 3LS. + 44 223 575512
Cambridge University Computer Laboratory, New Musems Site. + 44 223 334676
Email also via: ijac...@nyx.cs.du.edu PGP2 public key available on request
Peter A. Bigot
William J. Twomey <btw...@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> wrote:
>In article <2odkrb$3...@herald.indirect.com> ni...@indirect.com (Laurence Canter) writes:
>>Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One!
>>THE DEADLINE HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
>Has anybody else noticed this post?
Nope. (!?! how could one miss it?)
>Its posted everywhere. If its crossposted at all, its crossposted
>to two or three unrelated newsgroups newsgroups.
We seemed to have about 1888 messages from herald.indirect.com in the
history file; some seemed to have been cancelled (e.g., those
cross-posted to a pipex.* group). I sent mail to the various parties
asking them not to do it again; dunno whether it'll do any good.
>I whined to ro...@indirect.com, anybody else? What is indirect.com?
It's a service provider in Arizona---mostly Phoenix, but apparently they've
started reaching tendrils to Tucson and other sites. Our local version of
AOL.
>So anybody wanna start a betting pool? Winner picks the time
>closest to the death of netnews.
Too late---it's already dead. It's just such a leviathan the extremities
haven't noticed yet.
Peter
--
Peter A. Bigot -- p...@CS.Arizona.EDU
Dept. of Computer Science, University of Arizona, Tucson AZ
Peter Trei
connected to a perfectly polite but slightly harried sounding woman.
The moment I mentioned 'cslaw' I was told that the phone was ringing
off the hook, the mail spools were bursting, and cslaw's account was
toast.
They did not know that cslaw was kicked off of netcom for this
stunt. If anyone has the original post FROM NETCOM, if you could mail
me a copy I'll forward it to Indirect.
Peter Trei
pt...@Mitre.org
PS: In general, I've noticed that with the incredible upsurge in users
we've had over the past year, it now occurs to someone, somewhere, at
least two or three times a week, that posting a message to all
newsgroups is both possible and potentially lucrative. Sometimes these
are people who know better but have the ethics of hagfish (eg, cslaw);
more often they are clueless newbies. Either way, it's getting very
irritating.
What shall we call this practice? (I call it spamming, after the Monty
Python sketch).
If it's bad now, with 7-8 million Internet news readers, how will it
be when we have 70-80 million?
Should something be done about it? If so, what? I am NOT a fan of
AARM, but stuff like this makes me waver.
pt
Disclaimer: I do not speak for my employer.
Mark Meyer
On 12 Apr 1994 08:07:07 GMT,
ni...@indirect.com (Laurence Canter) said:
lc> Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One! THE DEADLINE HAS
lc> BEEN ANNOUNCED.
[Article seen by me for the fourth time today mercifully deleted.]
Any news.admin.misc-ers have a comment on this article that
has apparently been posted to every unmoderated newsgroup in the known
universe, including this one?
--
Mark Meyer | mme...@dseg.ti.com |
Texas Instruments, Inc., Plano, TX +--------------------+
Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI.
"My life needs a rewind/erase button." "...And a volume control."
Sean Graham
(William J. Twomey) wrote:
> In article <2odkrb$3...@herald.indirect.com> ni...@indirect.com (Laurence Canter) writes:
> >Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One!
> >THE DEADLINE HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
>
> Has anybody else noticed this post?
> Its posted everywhere. If its crossposted at all, its crossposted
> to two or three unrelated newsgroups newsgroups.
>
> I whined to ro...@indirect.com, anybody else? What is indirect.com?
FWIW, both accounts mentioned in the posting seem to be disabled:
$ finger ni...@indirect.com
[indirect.com]
Login: nike Name: Laurence Canter
Directory: /users/n/nike Shell: /etc/disabled
Last login Tue Apr 12 09:44 (MST) on ttyq6 from phx-ts4
No Plan.
$ finger cs...@indirect.com
[indirect.com]
Login: cslaw Name: Laurence Canter
Directory: /users/c/cslaw Shell: /etc/disabled
Last login Tue Apr 12 09:47 (MST) on ttyq7 from phx-ts2
No Plan.
--
sean n. graham nih bethesda, md se...@shiloh.nimh.nih.gov
Andrew Klossner
Would somebody in Phoenix please file a complaint with the local bar
association?
-=- Andrew Klossner (and...@frip.wv.tek.com)
Carl M Kadie
[...]
>PS: In general, I've noticed that with the incredible upsurge in users
>we've had over the past year, it now occurs to someone, somewhere, at
>least two or three times a week, that posting a message to all
>newsgroups is both possible and potentially lucrative.
[...]
Is it lucrative? At least in most cases, I would think that it doesn't
pay. The poster usually loses his account (or least risks it). He
gets zillion replies, but 99.99% are hate mail (making it almost
impossible to find the .01% nonhate replies).
- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.
= ka...@cs.uiuc.edu =
Clark O. Morgan
and asked to speak to the System Administrator. The receptionist
asked, "Why?". I briefly explained that I wanted to complain about the
postings of a member of their organization (the now well-known Mr.
Canter). The receptionist replied (I'm paraphrasing here), "Don't
worry. Mr. Canter has been kicked off our system. His actions are
going to cost our organization a lot of money. The system is so busy
right now [receiving e-mail, I assume] that no one can get any work
done. Our sysop had over 1000 e-mail messages this morning."
Sooooooooooooooo, we can all back off on e-mail to ro...@indirect.com
and postm...@indirect.com because they have gotten the message.
In article <cmorganC...@netcom.com>,
Clark O. Morgan <cmo...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Won't help. I complained as well. However, I looked in the mailq
>and none of the mail I sent has been delivered because indirect.com
>is not accepting SMTP connections.
>
>Script started on Tue Apr 12 10:09:04 1994
>$ telnet indirect.com 25
>Trying...
>telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
>$ finger @indirect.com
>[indirect.com]
>************************************************************
>Internet Direct, Inc.
>"Arizona's Internet Connection!"
>Call (602) 274-0100 for more information.
>You must know your party's login to finger them.
>************************************************************
>$ exit
>
>script done on Tue Apr 12 10:09:36 1994
--
Clark O. Morgan cmo...@netcom.com
Member: League for Programming Freedom (LPF), e-mail me for details
Hiroto Shibuya
guy will have quite a surprise when his sendmail start
working :-)
Hiroto
--
> From: j...@indirect.com (Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse)
> Date: 11 Apr 1994 18:46:25 GMT
> Organization: Internet Direct, Inc.
> I just installed sendmail 8.6.8 at my site, and now I'm getting all sorts
> of errors:
> 553 id1.indirect.com config error: mail loops back to myself
> Did something change in this release that it can no longer accept mail for
> indirect.com? It's getting mail for us...@indirect.com and saying 'oops, this
> is for indirect.com', TCP'ing to itself (a sendmail no-no I understand) and
> saying 'Oh, wait, you're me.' and stopping with errors. What did I do to
> the config file during the rebuild? In a one line summary: "What do I have
> to do to xxx.yyy.zzz to make it accept mail (which is coming to it) for
> yyy.zzz?" Okay, that was three lines, but...
>
> Nobody on that machine can get mail until I figure this out, so
> anyone who can help me will win my undying appreciation.
>
> Jeff
Brian 'Doc' O'Neill
|> I whined to ro...@indirect.com, anybody else? What is indirect.com?
|>
|> My nslookup says no mx records, which may or may not mean that you mail
|> goes to /dev/null. I Cc:d to postm...@news.springlink.net, which seems
|> to be the site next to indirect.com (picked it from Path of the article).
|>
I looked it up at the NIC. indirect.com is Internet Direct Inc. based in
Phoenix. I have sent e-mail to the administrative contact listed.
This is not the first time these people have done this, although I think it
may be the first time they did not do a mass-crosspost. I've seen it at least
twice before.
Does nothing for the reputation of lawyers. Prepare for Virtual Courts.
===========================================================================
Brian O'Neill - Systems Manager, Computer Science one...@cs.uml.edu
University of Massachusetts at Lowell Moderator, comp.binaries.ibm.pc
(508) 934-3645 Co-Moderator, comp.archives.msdos.announce
"My God man...we've become a tourist attraction..." - Londo, Babylon-5
David Lesher
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close...........(v)301 56 LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close)....kibo# 777............pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead..............vr....................20915-1433
Jim Gillogly
repeat the offence there. Perhaps we should concentrate on FAXing them
clues rather than e-mailing. It's more trouble, but would probably have
better luck getting their attention.
I won't bother to look up the FAX number... you can find it anywhere.
--
Jim Gillogly
Highday, 21 Astron S.R. 1994, 19:18
John Miller
: I wonder if the State Bar might be a better place to complain....
YES! Would someone in that state please take this one?
The net world thanks you.
--
John Miller, N4VU Linux! Fayetteville
j...@n4vu.Atl.GA.US DoD #1942 (Atlanta)
{emory,gatech}!n4hgf!n4vu AMA #671301 GA, US
Keith P. Johnson
Then a little later, I did a finger on him and found out that:
Shell: /etc/disabled
for both of his accounts (ni...@indirect.com and cs...@indirect.com).
However, I also noticed that he longs into indirect.com from netcom.com,
so after a little digging I found out his account there is
cs...@netcom.com. Perhaps netcom should be warned, too.
I guess the only other thing left is to see whether UUNET cancels them
all again. :)
keith
--
| kee...@rahul.net |DISCLAIMER:|"Cling tenaciously to my buttocks!" |
| Keith P. Johnson |Wedon'tneed| - Powdered Toast Man |
| 1711 Whipple Dr. Apt. 11 |nosteenking|"That's not a horse, that's my wife!" |
| Blacksburg, VA 24060 |disclaimer!| - Stupid Cowboy |
Daniel Briggs
(I think) the slimeballs have done exactly the same thing before. I'm sure
that I remember a law firm shotgunning each and every group with an advert
about a greencard lottery before, say maybe a year ago. Can anyone dig
that up, and see if it's the same folks? If so, they can't even claim that
they didn't know it was inappropriate. What can we do about repeat
offenders?
--
| Daniel Briggs (dbr...@nrao.edu) | USPA C-23367
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory | DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801 (505) 835-7391 |
| Dart: MC Ot+W H 3 Y L+ W C+ I++ T++ A+ H+ S+ V+ P++/P B+ |
David DeLaney
>ni...@indirect.com (Laurence Canter) said:
>lc> Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One! THE DEADLINE HAS
>lc> BEEN ANNOUNCED.
>[Article seen by me for the fourth time today mercifully deleted.]
>
> Any news.admin.misc-ers have a comment on this article that
>has apparently been posted to every unmoderated newsgroup in the known
>universe, including this one?
He missed (so far) de.test and gnu.gnusenet.test ...
Dave "we should be so lucky" DeLaney
--
David DeLaney: d...@utkux.utcc.utk.edu; WARNING: DO NOT PUT BEANS IN YOUR EARS!
Disclaimer: UTK agree with me? Yeah, right...; Thinking about this disclaimer__
may cause offense, brain seizure, confusion, or particle physics. VRbeableDJK\/
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd for the net.legends FAQ + miniFAQs, or anon-ftp
Ron Kirkpatrick
|>
|> Won't help. I complained as well. However, I looked in the mailq
|> and none of the mail I sent has been delivered because indirect.com
|> is not accepting SMTP connections.
|>
|> Script started on Tue Apr 12 10:09:04 1994
|> $ telnet indirect.com 25
|> Trying...
|> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
|> $ finger @indirect.com
|> [indirect.com]
|> ************************************************************
|> Internet Direct, Inc.
|> "Arizona's Internet Connection!"
|> Call (602) 274-0100 for more information.
|> You must know your party's login to finger them.
|> ************************************************************
|> $ exit
I don't doubt that your mail was delayed. Sendmail has a couple of safety
valves.
1) Accept connections but queue the mail when the load average
reaches x.
2) Refuse all new connection requests when the load average reaches
x + n.
Their spool runneth over!
--
Ron Kirkpatrick
News Administrator/Postmaster
Tektronix, Inc
503-627-6707
Sridhar Venkataraman
| >I whined to ro...@indirect.com, anybody else? What is indirect.com?
|
| It's a service provider in Arizona---mostly Phoenix, but apparently they've
| started reaching tendrils to Tucson and other sites. Our local version of
| AOL.
I don't think they are as bad as AOL. I had approached them with a
problem of a user trying to hack into my machine and they responded
quickly.
This abuser (Lawrence Canter) has already done the same stuffing of
commercial ads on Usenet from Netcom and is clueless enough to do it
again. Wouldn't fault the service provider for it.
I just called them an hour back and the person on the line was not
happy that they had this abuser on their machines and disabled his
accounts.
btw, I have no affiliation with Indirect.
Sridhar.
Ron Asbestos Dippold
>Canter & Siegel, Immigration Attorneys
>3333 E Camelback Road, Ste 250, Phoenix AZ 85018 USA
>cs...@indirect.com telephone (602)661-3911 Fax (602) 451-7617
They were kind enough to leave us their numbers. I suggest we
call/fax our displeasure. One call per person, of course - we
wouldn't want to harass them.
Wonder if these are Palmer's virtual lawyers? They've got the sleaze
factor.
--
I named my dog Herpes. He won't heel.
Lewis E. Wolfgang
>Well, I had been mailing back the article to him every time I read it.
>Then a little later, I did a finger on him and found out that:
>
>Shell: /etc/disabled
>
>for both of his accounts (ni...@indirect.com and cs...@indirect.com).
>However, I also noticed that he longs into indirect.com from netcom.com,
>so after a little digging I found out his account there is
>cs...@netcom.com. Perhaps netcom should be warned, too.
I just sent the following email to Mr. Canter at all three of his addresses.
I wonder if local small claims courts would have jurisdiction? I would
also be surprised if Canter actually is an attorney.
If every site sent a letter like this, I wonder what the aggregate
charges would be.....
Good luck,
Lewie Wolfgang
begin letter
********************
Dear Sir,
I have noticed in my capacity as USENET news administrator that you have
recently posted massive amounts of material to the net. A check here
indicates that the same article containing 1738 bytes was posted 2392
times, requiring storage at my site of 4,136,440 bytes minimum. Our
storage charge is $1.00 per megabyte per day. Since our expire time
is seven days, this yields a charge of $28.91. An invoice for services
rendered will be sent to you at the following address:
Canter & Siegel, Immigration Attorneys
3333 E Camelback Road, Ste 250
Phoenix AZ
85018 USA
I am sure that you will quickly remit the amount due and will agree
that such charges are reasonable for the advertising services rendered.
Should you be recalcitrant in payment, we will be forced to seek
whatever remedies are available to us. Since your posting was intended
for our local readers it is assumed that you are doing business in this
jurisdiction and thus subject to our local Small Claims Court.
Sincerely,
Lewis Wolfgang
Willard Dawson
[ That same old "Green Card Lottery" BULLSHIT. ]
I see that indirect.com has now jumped up a notch, away from the
witchcraft.com system they did have conntectivity through, and now has a
link through sprintlink.net.
It's a damn shame there are so many ISV's with absolutely no compunction
about dealing with slime such as the folks at indirect.com. Oh, if you
haven't noticed, those fucking lawyers (Canter & Siegel) have made a
regular practice of spewing their junk-postings to every known newsgroup.
People complain, but *they* don't listen. Hell, they have been known to
move from provider to provider, as they find they've lost their welcome
at their earlier sites. "Fly-by-night" is too nice a description for
these idiots.
I don't like the thoughts of denial-of-service attacks, as the results
can be felt by the innocent users of (say) sprintlink.net, but it's
about time that ISV's sat up and paid attention to the ethical operation
of business, which governs whom you do business with as well as what
sort of business it is you do.
Jeremy Elson
>rdip...@qualcomm.com (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold) writes:
>
>| They were kind enough to leave us their numbers. I suggest we
>| call/fax our displeasure. One call per person, of course - we
>| wouldn't want to harass them.
>
>
>Lady: Hello, Canter & Siegel
>Me: Hello, this is regarding the posting that Mr. Canter made to 1800
> newsgroups.
><Absolute Silence on the other end>
>Me: That is not the tradition of the Net. I hope you don't do that
> again.
><Absolute Silence>
>Me: Hello...
>Lady: Yes, Sir. Do you have anything more?
>Me: No.
>Lady: Thank you.
Interesting. I also called them the moment I realized the post was
Spam-Posted to complain, but since I called early in the day (around
10AM or so), the Lady was not so hostile, probably because she hadn't
yet received 8 hours worth of nasty phone calls.
Dialling 661-3911 ...
Lady: Hello, Canter & Siegel
Me: Hi, may I please speak to your computer resource person?
Lady: Um.. he's not in right now, may I take a message?
Me: Well, are you aware of the massive post which was recently made to
USENET?
Lady: I'm aware there was some advertising made on Internet.
Me: Well, the problem is that the post was made to a very large number
of completely inappropriate newsgroups.
Lady: <silence>
Me: ... and in the future, such posts really should be made only to
apporpriate newsgroups unless your firm wants to feel the backlash
of the entire Net community complaning.
Lady: Ok, I'll pass along the message.
Me: Thanks.
>I didn't want to go overboard since recording my call and suing later
>is a possibility. :-)
I actually felt bad about the call after I made it - I was worried
she might interpret the last part as a threat, although it certainly
wasn't intended as such.
Jeremy
Greg Lindahl
>Evidently they simply get another account at a different provider and
>repeat the offence there. Perhaps we should concentrate on FAXing them
>clues rather than e-mailing. It's more trouble, but would probably have
>better luck getting their attention.
These same folks have gotten thrown off netcom and I believe digex,
for the same thing. They also used to have their own uucp site that
got pulled for the same thing. It's time for someone who lives in
Arizona to try to sic the Better Business Bureau and/or their local
Bar onto them, because this is pretty unethical, although proving that
to the BBB or the Bar might take some persistance.
-- g
Matt Messina
Albert Cheng, ach...@ncsa.uiuc.edu writes:
> Oh, I see. Now I understand why these attorneys said things
> like these. I bet Dave Rhode just joined their firm.
The Law Firm of Canter, Siegel, Green, Fazio, Rhodes, & Thomas. ;-)
"Nice of them to only post this to only two groups, rather than all of them,"
I thought -- then I saw they've taken the CTIV method, presumably to avoid
the killfiles of people who kill mass cross-posted articles.
I'd support a cancel if his administrators won't do it -- not because of the
content, but to help conserve the resources of those users who must pay to
read news (unlike me). Actually even those of us who get our news for "free"
pay for it -- another reason to support a cancelation.
--
Matt Messina Vote YES on rec.arts.ascii
matt.m...@umich.edu CFV: coming soon to a n.a.newgroups near you
Mike Doughney
Peter Trei <pt...@bistromath.mitre.org> wrote:
> Well, I called up indirect.com (Internet Direct), and got
>connected to a perfectly polite but slightly harried sounding woman.
>The moment I mentioned 'cslaw' I was told that the phone was ringing
>off the hook, the mail spools were bursting, and cslaw's account was
>toast.
>
> They did not know that cslaw was kicked off of netcom for this
>stunt. If anyone has the original post FROM NETCOM, if you could mail
>me a copy I'll forward it to Indirect.
The Netcom account appears to be active as of this moment, and what's
more, cslaw appears to have a slip connection.
Laurence A Canter (cslaw)
Home: /u1/cslaw
Shell: /bin/tcsh
No mail.
User Real Name Idle TTY Host Console Location
cslaw Laurence A Canter 0:03 s8 netcom (cslaw.slip.netco)
Frank L. Krawczyk
>Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One!
>THE DEADLINE HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
>
>
>For FREE information via Email, send request to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>cs...@indirect.com
Watch out. These quite questionable lawyers not only bombed
almost all newsgroup with this crap this week. They also tried
to get into business over alt.visa.us for a while. And their
FREE information includes a GENEROUS offer to send your
lottery entry for you for ONLY s.th. in the order of $100.
Since the lottery details are well documented you can do it
yourself for 29 ct.
Frank
>
>
>--
>*****************************************************************
>Canter & Siegel, Immigration Attorneys
>3333 E Camelback Road, Ste 250, Phoenix AZ 85018 USA
>cs...@indirect.com telephone (602)661-3911 Fax (602) 451-7617
--
* - Any opinions expressed are mine; E-Mail: f...@luke.atdiv.lanl.gov *
* Frank Krawczyk, LANL, AOT-17 MS H825, Los Alamos, NM 87545 *
* Don't even think of using my adress to send advertising material *
**********************************************************************
Chip Rosenthal
>>| They were kind enough to leave us their numbers.
In article <2ofof9...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>,
Jeremy Elson <jel...@ren.psy.jhu.edu> wrote:
>>Dialling 661-3911 ...
>Sridhar Venkataraman <sri...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu> wrote:
>Dialling 661-3911 ...
Good for y'all. It just so happens that I tried to call Mr. Canter
earlier today. He was tied up in a meeting and was unable to talk to
me. I left a message for him to call back. I thought I might be of
assistance, since in my role of comp.newprod moderator, I need to
wrassle with the delicate issue of "commercial use of the net" quite
regularly.
Unfortunately, I'm going to be out of the office almost all day
tomorrow. I hope somebody out there might be able to connect up with
him and give him some polite pointers on the courteous use of the net.
For those who missed it, the sig he posted was:
--
*****************************************************************
Canter & Siegel, Immigration Attorneys
3333 E Camelback Road, Ste 250, Phoenix AZ 85018 USA
cs...@indirect.com telephone (602)661-3911 Fax (602) 451-7617
If there is a bright side to this, at least he kept the sig to
the 4-line limit.
--
Chip Rosenthal 512-447-0577 | I figure the odds be fifty-fifty
Unicom Systems Development | I just might have some thing to say.
<ch...@chinacat.Unicom.COM> | -FZ
Clark O. Morgan
>>Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One!
>>THE DEADLINE HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
>
>Its posted everywhere. If its crossposted at all, its crossposted
>to two or three unrelated newsgroups newsgroups.
>
Won't help. I complained as well. However, I looked in the mailq
and none of the mail I sent has been delivered because indirect.com
is not accepting SMTP connections.
Script started on Tue Apr 12 10:09:04 1994
$ telnet indirect.com 25
Trying...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
$ finger @indirect.com
[indirect.com]
************************************************************
Internet Direct, Inc.
"Arizona's Internet Connection!"
Call (602) 274-0100 for more information.
You must know your party's login to finger them.
************************************************************
$ exit
script done on Tue Apr 12 10:09:36 1994
Tony Lezard
>What shall we call this practice? (I call it spamming, after the Monty
>Python sketch).
Another poster has used the phrase "carpet bombing". I think this
expresses the effect perfectly.
>Should something be done about it? If so, what? I am NOT a fan of
>AARM, but stuff like this makes me waver.
My sentiments as well. We can only hope that retroactive moderation
does not become necessary.
--
Tony Lezard
to...@mantis.co.uk
PGP public key via finger or keyservers
Sridhar Venkataraman
| Unfortunately, I'm going to be out of the office almost all day
| tomorrow. I hope somebody out there might be able to connect up with
| him and give him some polite pointers on the courteous use of the net.
Nope. I don't take that stance. He has been using alt.visa.us for the
same purpose (for about 6 months to a year) he sent out that posting for.
If sufficient people call to express those guys their annoyance, I think
it will make a difference. If those guys do sue, let us hope Usenet
doesn't let Internet Direct down.
| If there is a bright side to this, at least he kept the sig to
| the 4-line limit.
I would bet on indirect.com having a 4-line only inews.
Sridhar.
ps: To folks on alt.visa.us... Please connect to gopher.indirect.com
and read the first two items on the gopher. Also check out news.admin.misc
Paul Joslin (Sverdrup)
: Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One!
: THE DEADLINE HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
...
: --
: *****************************************************************
: Canter & Siegel, Immigration Attorneys
: 3333 E Camelback Road, Ste 250, Phoenix AZ 85018 USA
: cs...@indirect.com telephone (602)661-3911 Fax (602) 451-7617
Canker & Slimeball
Ambulance Chasers on the Information Superhighway...
PE. Smee
Bob Brewin <bre...@access.digex.net> wrote:
>Poster has received about 25,000 replies -- and assumption is none of
>these are from folks seeking a chance in lottery.
Um, my 25 (or so) weren't - I'm already a US citizen, though, so I
assume that I'm not eligible. Although, since USA didn't appear on the
list of 'ineligible countries' I *did* ask. :-)
>Law firm which made the massive post is now threatening Internet Direct
>with lawsuits unless they deliver all the mail the Green Card Plague has
>generated. Guess Canter is a masochist.
Could be an interesting test case. I'd certainly be willing to make a
donation towards Internet Direct's legal expenses, if it comes to that.
--
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
P.S...@bristol.ac.uk - Tel +44 272 303132 - FAX +44 272 291576
Willard Dawson
>I got the following phone number for the Arizona Bar Asociation:
>602-252-4804. A call to complain about the practices of Laurence
>Canter of Canter & Siegel in Phoenix Arizona might finally put an end
>to this bullshit once and for all.
>Please spread this information around.
>Mr. Canter's home phone number is unlisted. However, Arizona residents
>might not be unjustified if they were to in trying to remember the
>business number, 602-661-3911, inadvertently write it somewhere inappropriate.
>-dh
>--
>Don Hosek "The Only Solution is Love"
>Quixote Digital Typography -Dorothy Day
>Publishers of _Serif: The Magazine of Type and Typography_
>909-621-1291 Current reading: _The Spiritual Quixote_
>FAX: 909-625-1342 (Graves), _The History of the Church_
>dho...@quixote.com (Eusebius)
Willard Dawson
>In article <2of2lj$l...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
>Dave Mattox <mat...@kbesrl.me.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>This moron has posted to every group on the net. I think the appropriate response
>>is to reply and request his FREE information. It only takes a second for you but
>>could potentially cause them untold hours of work trying to respond to 20,000
>>bogus requests for more information. Please send for it today.
>>
>>In article <2odk14$3...@herald.indirect.com>, ni...@indirect.com (Laurence Canter) writes:
>[ deletia ]
>Don't do that. The only ones that it's going to cause untold hours of work for
>is the poor sysadmins who have to recover a crashed system because you filled
>up the mail spool. Believe me, they probably know by now.
No, I suggest that you DO it. They did solicit exactly that action.
Additionally, there is no reason to be concerned over the affects that
action might have on indirect.com, as that system apparently exists
solely for the purpose of spewing this Green Card bullshit on a regular
basis. They deserve much worse than simply crashing their mail spool.
Unfortunately, those assholes no doubt have a 2G partition set aside for
/var/spool...
Followups redirected.
Damien Doligez
Maybe the news software on a number of key sites should implement the
following feature: fingerprint the body of every message and keep a
hashed database of the fingerprints with a count of the number of
identical messages. If the same message gets posted more than (say)
10 times, silently drop the redundant postings. Maybe also send some
mail to the news admin (not one mail per redundant posting, though...)
Remove each fingerprint from the database after 24 hours.
Then flooding the net would then have to be a deliberate act, rather
than the error of a clueless newbie, because they would have to change
the message for each newsgroup. Not difficult, but it would have to
be obviously deliberate.
Steve Simmons
bar association. From the current response speed of indirect.com, their
service provider is already paying the price.
--
Msen, Inc - $HOME for the $HOMEless in Michigan. BBS, Internet access, IP
connectivity. 320 Miller Road, Ann Arbor, MI 48103, 313-998-4562.
John Stanley
Damien Doligez <dol...@couchey.inria.fr> wrote:
>Then flooding the net would then have to be a deliberate act, rather
>than the error of a clueless newbie, because they would have to change
>the message for each newsgroup. Not difficult, but it would have to
>be obviously deliberate.
Considering that the script used is not just a one or two keystroke
command in any current newsreader, the chances of ANY carpet bombing
being the act of a clueless newbie are rather slim.
No, it's obviously deliberate whenever it happens, and having the same
script that posts the article append a harmless looking random string to
each posting to make it hash differently would be trivial.
Jeremy Elson
>qui...@netcom.com (Don Hosek) writes:
>
>>I got the following phone number for the Arizona Bar Asociation:
>>602-252-4804. A call to complain about the practices of Laurence
>>Canter of Canter & Siegel in Phoenix Arizona might finally put an end
>>to this bullshit once and for all.
Okay, I just called that Arizona Bar Assoc. at the above number (12 noon
EST). A woman answered, I introduced myself and asked if she was aware
of C&S's unsolicted advertising, and she very exhaustedly but politely said
"Yes, we're aware of it, let me put you through to someone who can help you."
After holding for a bit, another lady answered who said she's been getting
calls all morning about it but wasn't sure what to do or what to tell
people. I gave her a 30-second description of what USENET is -- she became
particularly interested when I told her that many people have to _pay_ for
the articles they receive. (Her response actually was: "can't you complain
to the governing body about that?" Me: "Governing body of what?" Her: "Of
USENET." Me: "Well, the problem here is that there _is_ no governing body
of USENET. It is a cooperative network of many sites around the world which
have all agreed to pass messages to each other." etc.)
Anyway - she was very polite, seemed genuinely interested, and took my name
and number to call me back when she had more information.
-je
--
Jeremy Elson
Internet: jel...@cs.jhu.edu; Bitnet: jelson@jhunix
John Stanley
Tony Lezard <to...@mantis.co.uk> wrote:
>My sentiments as well. We can only hope that retroactive moderation
>does not become necessary.
Retroactive moderation is never necessary. In this case, indirect.com
should be cancelling the articles.
Sridhar Venkataraman
| They were kind enough to leave us their numbers. I suggest we
| call/fax our displeasure. One call per person, of course - we
| wouldn't want to harass them.
Dialling 661-3911 ...
Lady: Hello, Canter & Siegel
Me: Hello, this is regarding the posting that Mr. Canter made to 1800
newsgroups.
<Absolute Silence on the other end>
Me: That is not the tradition of the Net. I hope you don't do that
again.
<Absolute Silence>
Me: Hello...
Lady: Yes, Sir. Do you have anything more?
Me: No.
Lady: Thank you.
I didn't want to go overboard since recording my call and suing later
is a possibility. :-)
Sridhar.
Dan Pop
l3apollo6:~/FAQ 86> finger ni...@indirect.com
[indirect.com]
Login: nike Name: Laurence Canter
Directory: /users/n/nike Shell: /etc/disabled
Last login Tue Apr 12 13:25 (MST) on ttypc from phx-ts4
No Plan.
I'm affraid Laurence Canter won't be able to login in order to enjoy
his email (hint: look at his current login shell). It seems that his
sysadmin has already taken the appropriate actions and it makes no
sense to punish a sysadmin for the mistakes of his users. If you're a
sysadmin too, think that tomorrow one of your users may do the same
thing.
Just my $0.02,
Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email: dan...@cernapo.cern.ch
Mail: CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
Ron Newman
>No, I suggest that you DO it. They did solicit exactly that action.
>Additionally, there is no reason to be concerned over the affects that
>action might have on indirect.com, as that system apparently exists
>solely for the purpose of spewing this Green Card bullshit on a regular
>basis. They deserve much worse than simply crashing their mail spool.
Please do NOT spam indirect.com. They are a general-access site, much
like The World or Netcom. They are as upset by all this as you are,
and they have already taken quite effective action against these
losers. Gopher to gopher.indirect.com for more information.
Again, please leave indirect.com alone and let them recover in
peace from this disaster.
--
Ron Newman MIT Media Laboratory
rne...@media.mit.edu
Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse
: I'd support a cancel if his administrators won't do it -- not because of the
: content, but to help conserve the resources of those users who must pay to
: read news (unlike me). Actually even those of us who get our news for "free"
: pay for it -- another reason to support a cancelation.
I would very much like to cancel the articles... I'm not sure how to do
it efficiently for a situation like this. Anyone who can help me out will
be a net.hero.
Jeff
Sridhar Venkataraman
| If you want to hit these guys where they hurt, complain to the state
| bar association. From the current response speed of indirect.com, their
| service provider is already paying the price.
From the White Pages ... All under 602 area code.
State Bar of Arizona:
111 W Monroe St. 252 4804
Arizona Bar Foundation 254 9163
Bar Foundation 340 7370
Certified Specialists 340 7300
How to File a Complaint 340 7280
I called the "How to File a Complaint" no. and it is a machine
operated service. Apparently, there seems to be no way to complain
other than filing a written one.
Arizona Republic Newspaper
Editorial Pages voice 271 8499
Editorial Pages fax 271 8933
I was told that they don't take stories on the phone. A fax from a
lot of people would make them go and check out the story.
Sridhar.
David Sewell
Sridhar Venkataraman <sri...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu> wrote:
>s...@garnet.msen.com (Steve Simmons) writes:
>
>Arizona Republic Newspaper
> Editorial Pages voice 271 8499
> Editorial Pages fax 271 8933
>
>I was told that they don't take stories on the phone. A fax from a
>lot of people would make them go and check out the story.
night with information on the story. So far they haven't gotten back
to me. Definitely notify the Republic. Also, there's a weekly in
Phoenix called "New Times" that often does investigative stories--does
anyone have a contact there? It's the kind of story they'd probably
cover well.
--
David Sewell * ds...@cobra.aml.arizona.edu | "Where the earth is dry, the
RADIOCARBON, Dep't of Geosciences, U of Arizona | soul is wisest and best."
| --Heraclitus
Jim Mercer
oh, great. and on what evidence do you link cs...@indirect.com with the
entity that runs indirect.com?
from what i've heard,the people behind cs...@indirect.com have threatened legal
action against the people who operate indirect.com unless indirect.com
gives cslaw all of the email received.
the sysadmin shut down cslaw and nike's accounts when they discovered what happened.
--
[ Jim Mercer Reptilian Research me...@iguana.reptiles.org +1 416 506-0654 ]
[ "... or you can become a road-kill on the information superhighway." ]
[ -- Colin Mcgregor ]
David Chapman
Bill GoodyKoontz is a columnist in the computer section.
Their email addresses are phx-g...@aol.com and goo...@aol.com
Dan Hontz is editor of the Lifestyle section - hon...@crl.com
dc
--
David Chapman cha...@adtaz.sps.mot.com
Low Power Design Technology Group
SSDT, Advanced Design Technology
Julien Maisonneuve
But those of you that want can still express their feelings to :
cs...@pipeline.com
or cs...@netcom.com
Both accounts are still active. If you insist a bit they may become useless for
Canter. This is already a good point.
It looks like this guy has accounts on every public access system. Since it's
probably useless as such, it may be for other purposes (make repeated attempts at
unethical advertising, establishing precedents in public network trials, gaining
experience in leading edge legal problems,...)
Oh, I shouldn't be doing this...
Seeya,
Julien.
Mark Kupferman
ka...@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M Kadie) writes:
>
> Is it lucrative? At least in most cases, I would think that it doesn't
> pay. The poster usually loses his account (or least risks it). He
> gets zillion replies, but 99.99% are hate mail (making it almost
> impossible to find the .01% nonhate replies).
>
But you know, if you think about it, perhaps there are fifty thousand
potential U.S. citizens who will praise the lord that this Green Card
information was posted--perhaps these lawyers are providing a
lifesaving
service that will improve the lives of thousands of abused and
unhappy individuals?
Just kidding.
_____________________________________________________________
Mark Kupferman cat...@minerva.cis.yale.edu
YSD/YRT
William M. Eldridge
thinking they'd get business, the best thing to
do is to send in inquiries with bad return addresses
and let them spend a lot of time replying.
Of course you'd need a zumabot for such an
exceptional task - I mean, changing the
letters, coming up with imaginary nodes,
etc.
--
Bill Eldridge Bukowski and Ionesco a la meme temps -
bi...@lifesci.ucla.edu Is that a frumpy alligator in my drink, my dear?
310-206-3960 (3987 fax) Derision. Like a decision with a beer.
Chuck Rice
: >>Mr. Canter's home phone number is unlisted.
If someone has the national directory online, maybe they
could write a small program to select out all the listed numbers
in cslaws area, then generate a list of all of the unlisted
numbers. If each of us takes 10 unlisted numbers and calls and asks
for Mr. Canter, someone is bound to find him. It sure would
be good to know his home phone number. -Chuck-
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Rice car...@netcom.com
Jim Mercer
David Sewell <ds...@cobra.aml.arizona.edu> wrote:
>I faxed the two Tucson papers (C&S has a branch office here) last
>night with information on the story. So far they haven't gotten back
>to me. Definitely notify the Republic. Also, there's a weekly in
>Phoenix called "New Times" that often does investigative stories--does
>anyone have a contact there? It's the kind of story they'd probably
>cover well.
in ontario, we have "The Law Times" which i believe is a weekly paper for
lawyers.
there might be similar publications in Arizona.
also, i'd like to hear about any media coverage. i'd like to collect it and
distribute it to other media outlets.
Jim Jewett
Steve Simmons <s...@garnet.msen.com> wrote:
>If you want to hit these guys where they hurt, complain to the state
>bar association. From the current response speed of indirect.com, their
>service provider is already paying the price.
And they're not even off the net -- finger cs...@netcom.com
(On the other hand, it has been hours since he got mail, so I
doubt he is getting the email responses. I don't know how many
friendly calls they'll get.)
-jJ
Sridhar Venkataraman
| : >qui...@netcom.com (Don Hosek)
| : >(I think... it was nested pretty deep) writes:
| : >>Mr. Canter's home phone number is unlisted.
|
| If someone has the national directory online, maybe they
| could write a small program to select out all the listed numbers
| in cslaws area, then generate a list of all of the unlisted
| numbers. If each of us takes 10 unlisted numbers and calls and asks
| for Mr. Canter, someone is bound to find him. It sure would
| be good to know his home phone number. -Chuck-
Here are some more facts:
(He is unlisted in White Pages)
---
March 1992-93 Metro Phoenix Yellow Pages:
C&S unlisted
---
March 1993-94 Metro Phoenix Yellow Pages:
C&S listed under immigration attorneys as follows:
"
Canter & Siegel
Laurence A. Canter
Past National Board of Governors member,
American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA)
Past AILA State Chapter President
Advanced law degree with honors,
Georgetown U. Law School
14 Years in immigration practice
Offices in Scottsdale and Tucson
Call For A Consultation
949-0690
Fully Licensed by Federal Regulations to
Practice Immigration Law in Arizona
and All Other U.S. States
State License Tennessee Only"
---
Don't have Scottsdale Yellow Pages since I am in Tempe.
Anyone out in Scottsdale?
---
Any people with AILA contacts who can clue us on C&S's status?
Are the titles right?
Sridhar.
ps: Not too sure if this goes to az.general. If it does, any inputs
from folks there on C&S would be appreciated.
Sorry folks, my newsfeed is out of reality. :-)
Jo Ann Malina
>In article <2odle8$4...@herald.indirect.com> ni...@indirect.com (Laurence Canter) writes:
>>Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One!
>>THE DEADLINE HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
>>
>>
>>For FREE information via Email, send request to
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>cs...@indirect.com
>
>Watch out. These quite questionable lawyers not only bombed
>almost all newsgroup with this crap this week. They also tried
>to get into business over alt.visa.us for a while. And their
>FREE information includes a GENEROUS offer to send your
>lottery entry for you for ONLY s.th. in the order of $100.
>Since the lottery details are well documented you can do it
>yourself for 29 ct.
Would contacting the Arizona Bar Assn. do any good? They're sleazes
for flooding the net, but lying about "free" information goes beyond
netiquette into false advertising. Maybe an official letter from their
state bar harrumphing at them would get them to stop.
If that fails, what about getting their news feed cut off. It appears
from other posts here that indirect.com doesn't give a rats about their
behavior. Maybe their feed could suggest that they clean up their act?
I'm not usually a net.cop, but if every cheap hustler in America decides
to flood the internet with crap like this, the whole thing will die an
ugly death, to be replaced by a very expen$ive "information highway"
owned by more hustlers in more expensive suits.
*) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *)!(* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (*
Jo Ann Malina, Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
jo...@slac.stanford.edu -or- 415/926-2846
Neither Stanford nor the DOE would be caught dead with these opinions.
Nor do they consult me when formulating theirs.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe is made of stories, not atoms. --Muriel Rukeyser
Christopher Pound
Sridhar Venkataraman <sri...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu> wrote:
>Canter & Siegel
>Fully Licensed by Federal Regulations to
>Practice Immigration Law in Arizona
Does anyone have access to the Code of Federal Regulations: Aliens and
Nationalities -- Discipline of attorneys and representatives (CFR 08:292.3)?
I found a reference to such on gopher.counterpoint.com, but obviously, it
isn't available for me to decide if it's relevant. Nevertheless, it seems
clear that Mr. Canter has to answer to a power higher than the Tennessee
State Bar ...
--
Christopher Pound (po...@rice.edu) | They think they are Parisians, but
Department of Anthropology, Rice U. | they are nothing. -- Pierre Bourdieu
Clayton Haapala
Dan Pop <dan...@cernapo.cern.ch> wrote:
>I'm affraid Laurence Canter won't be able to login in order to enjoy
>his email (hint: look at his current login shell). It seems that his
>sysadmin has already taken the appropriate actions and it makes no
>sense to punish a sysadmin for the mistakes of his users. If you're a
>sysadmin too, think that tomorrow one of your users may do the same
>thing.
>
incoming hate mail, AND, that they will be sued if they interfere with
the law firm's mail. Hell, spin it out to your favorite backup device
QIC, whatever, and then charge the firm $250,000 for the media. They
won't have "interfered" then.
If it comes to court, suggest that the judge privately review some of the
admin's mail about this incident. Then suggest that the judge randomly
pick any 10 messages from the media -- some of us networld'ers can get
pretty flowery. :-)
--
Clay Haapala "Well, there was the process of sitting around
cl...@haapi.mn.org and wishing I had more computer stuff."
-- Dilbert
Clayton Haapala
>following feature: fingerprint the body of every message and keep a
>hashed database of the fingerprints with a count of the number of
>identical messages. If the same message gets posted more than (say)
>10 times, silently drop the redundant postings. Maybe also send some
>mail to the news admin (not one mail per redundant posting, though...)
>Remove each fingerprint from the database after 24 hours.
A heads-up message would be nice. What occurred to me was that some
journaling could be added to the news system tagged by either local user or
source system which could be rolled into a mass cancel program. Actually,
the log file does have the source (feed) system. Here are some log entries
for the infamous posting:
Apr 12 11:20:31.000 idss.nwa.com + <2odkrb$3...@herald.indirect.com> csinc
Apr 12 11:20:31.000 idss.nwa.com + <2odkre$3...@herald.indirect.com> csinc
Apr 12 11:20:31.000 idss.nwa.com + <2odkro$3...@herald.indirect.com> csinc
(My site is "haapi".)
So, I could already issue (forged) cancels, if I wished, for all articles coming
from idss.nwa.com with "indirect.com" in the message-ID. That may, in
fact, not be too bad to do, but it does also toast the useful messages
from Indirect's beleagured admins.
Here's a "haapi" (local) entry:
Apr 13 21:34:16.000 haapi + <Co89s...@haapi.mn.org> csinc guppy bee terrabit
Fairly anonymous, eh? Could have been posted by my evil twin, Skippy!
The host name "haapi" COULD have the user's id added to it by "inews" or its
equivalent, either by number or by name. Then the entry would be useful
for extracting by the above mentioned admins for toasting just one user's
posts. I was thinking the user-id of the poster would be better to use
than whatever is in the From: line.
Sample modified local log entry:
Apr 13 21:34:16.000 haapi/skippy + <Co89s...@haapi.mn.org> csinc
We can pick some character that wouldn't appear in a user or host name, rather
than make another field and blow up everybody's stat scripts completely.
Worth persuing, anyone? To restate the goal: to Add enough info to the
news log to allow an admin to mass-cancel a local user's posts. Obviously,
this won't pretect anybody from a cracked system, but it could be a useful
tool.
Please flame me in true Usenet fashion if this is just too obvious. :-)
Please educate me if it just ain't workable. The above examples are based
on CNews -- I am not (yet) familiar with INN. You Waffle boys chime-in,
too. And PC-Board, and....
Trif
Clark O. Morgan <cmo...@netcom.com> wrote:
>After composing this article I called the number for Internet Direct
>and asked to speak to the System Administrator. The receptionist
>asked, "Why?". I briefly explained that I wanted to complain about the
>postings of a member of their organization (the now well-known Mr.
>Canter). The receptionist replied (I'm paraphrasing here), "Don't
>worry. Mr. Canter has been kicked off our system. His actions are
>going to cost our organization a lot of money. The system is so busy
>right now [receiving e-mail, I assume] that no one can get any work
>done. Our sysop had over 1000 e-mail messages this morning."
>
>Sooooooooooooooo, we can all back off on e-mail to ro...@indirect.com
>and postm...@indirect.com because they have gotten the message.
I wish I had known this when I started reading today, because I just
fired off a couple more letters, after finding this in two more
newsgroups I regularly read. The thing is, our newsserver went
down for a couple of days in between when they hit the early
newsgroups, and when I just saw these two. That is ample time
for indirect.com to be sending out cancels for these articles and
saving themselves a lot of headaches. Why aren't they cancelling
the articles, and if they are, why did it take so long to get around
to it?
Jack Campin
> Well, I called up indirect.com (Internet Direct), and got connected to a
> perfectly polite but slightly harried sounding woman. The moment I
> mentioned 'cslaw' I was told that the phone was ringing off the hook, the
> mail spools were bursting, and cslaw's account was toast.
> They did not know that cslaw was kicked off of netcom for this stunt.
They weren't:
finger cs...@netcom.com
[netcom.com]
Laurence A Canter (cslaw)
Home: /u1/cslaw
Shell: /bin/tcsh
No unread mail.
Laurence A Canter (cslaw) is not presently logged in.
Last seen at netcom on Tue Apr 12 21:33:39 1994
No plan.
Does the Arizona Bar Association really tolerate this sort of behaviour from
its members (that is, *if* Canter is a legitimate lawyer in the first place)?
Maybe a complaint to them might be appropriate?
--
-- Jack Campin -- Room 1.36, Department of Computing & Electrical Engineering,
Mountbatten Building, Heriot-Watt University, Riccarton, Edinburgh EH14 4AS
TEL: 031 449 5111 ext 4195 HOME: 031 556 5272 FAX: 031 451 3431
INTERNET: ja...@cee.hw.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL BANG!net: via mcsun & uknet
Trif
Sridhar Venkataraman <sri...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu> wrote:
>If sufficient people call to express those guys their annoyance, I think
>it will make a difference. If those guys do sue, let us hope Usenet
>doesn't let Internet Direct down.
Amen. Could someone who is already in communication with Internet
Direct ask them to keep in contact with news.admin.misc regarding
any legal action taken against them by these bozos? I think they
should just send the mail received along (sending it to their FAX
machine sounds great!), but if they sue for having the account
terminated, I will back ID up 100%.
Is there some kind of documentary archive where abuses like this are
chronicled? I have advised people from time to time who are eager
to get into the Usenet business, and have always told them that a
tight policy on commercial and abusive posts (like spamming to many
newsgroups inappropriately) is an absolute must. They are typically
skeptical when they ask why and I tell them that it would be very
easy for someone to bring their system down by getting thousands
of complaints about such postings. It would be easier to convince
them if I had actual accounts of such things happening to show them. :)
Roderick M. Riensche
Jo Ann Malina <jo...@ariadne.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>In article <2oegdl$a...@newshost.lanl.gov> kraw...@beta.lanl.gov (Frank L. Krawczyk) writes:
>>In article <2odle8$4...@herald.indirect.com> ni...@indirect.com (Laurence Canter) writes:
>>>Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One!
>>>THE DEADLINE HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
>>>
>> [snip] (more info on green card lottery)
>>>
>>>For FREE information via Email, send request to
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>cs...@indirect.com
>>
>>Watch out. These quite questionable lawyers not only bombed
>>almost all newsgroup with this crap this week. They also tried
>>to get into business over alt.visa.us for a while. And their
>>FREE information includes a GENEROUS offer to send your
>>lottery entry for you for ONLY s.th. in the order of $100.
>>Since the lottery details are well documented you can do it
>>yourself for 29 ct.
>
>Would contacting the Arizona Bar Assn. do any good? They're sleazes
>for flooding the net, but lying about "free" information goes beyond
>netiquette into false advertising. Maybe an official letter from their
>state bar harrumphing at them would get them to stop.
The only problem is: You send them e-mail, they send you a FREE e-mail
explaining how to order their $100 information (or at least that's
usually the way these scams work.. Kind of like the *DRUG-LORD CAR
AUCTIONS* where you call a 1-800 number to get "information" and all it
tells you is how to order a [rather expensive] schedule of auctions.)
Ethical? No, not if you ask me. It's a scam.
Legal? Unfortunately, I believe it is.
Don't get me wrong. I am *DEFINITELY* not defending these losers.
>If that fails, what about getting their news feed cut off. It appears
>from other posts here that indirect.com doesn't give a rats about their
>behavior. Maybe their feed could suggest that they clean up their act?
WHAT?? Internet Direct is facing a potential $250,000 lawsuit for
disabling their accounts!! Check out gopher.indirect.com
>
>I'm not usually a net.cop, but if every cheap hustler in America decides
>to flood the internet with crap like this, the whole thing will die an
>ugly death, to be replaced by a very expen$ive "information highway"
>owned by more hustlers in more expensive suits.
Sad but true.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
-Roderick (Rick) M. Riensche | PO Box 5097 | o o
-Computer Technician/EE Student | Benton City WA | ----
-Soon-to-be-CEO :) | 99320 | Have a day.
----------------------<rien...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>-------------------------
Jonathan Seitz
: Would contacting the Arizona Bar Assn. do any good? They're sleazes
: for flooding the net, but lying about "free" information goes beyond
: netiquette into false advertising. Maybe an official letter from their
: state bar harrumphing at them would get them to stop.
Indirect really does care--they yanked the account, and are currently trying
to dig themselves out of a very deep /var. They also put up the
address/phone#/fax# for the place, if you want to express you feelings to
Dewey Cheatem and Howe directly.
Jonathan.
_____
jona...@raptor.sccs.swarthmore.edu
(aka jse...@cc.swarthmore.edu or ci...@cleveland.freenet.edu)
Do you seriously think there's anyone who would let *me* speak for them?
_____
Stay tuned for more of Marcel Marceau's new CD, "The Sound of Silence."
Ben Coleman
> ni...@indirect.com (Laurence Canter) writes:
>
> [ That same old "Green Card Lottery" BULLSHIT. ]
>
> I see that indirect.com has now jumped up a notch, away from the
> witchcraft.com system they did have conntectivity through, and now has a
> link through sprintlink.net.
>
> It's a damn shame there are so many ISV's with absolutely no compunction
> about dealing with slime such as the folks at indirect.com.
Uh, as far as I can tell(try fingering ni...@indirect.com and
cs...@indirect.com), the people at indirect.com have yanked C & S's (I try
to think of that as Clueless & Sons) account. At least that's what I assume
a shell of /etc/disabled means.
Ben
----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Ben Coleman NJ8J | "All that is not eternal is |
| AX.25: NJ8J@W4QO.#EAL.#ATL.GA.USA.NA | eternally out of date." |
| Internet: b...@nj8j.atl.ga.us | C. S. Lewis |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Damien Doligez
|> No, it's obviously deliberate whenever it happens, and having the same
|> script that posts the article append a harmless looking random string to
|> each posting to make it hash differently would be trivial.
I did not follow the "Jesus is coming soon" discussion closely, but my
understanding was that the offender was indeed clueless.
As for the random string, how about removing 10% from the beginning
and end of the article before fingerprinting ? And not mentioning
this feature in the user documentation ? This would catch not only
clueless newbies, but also "normal" users.
Or maybe a better idea would be a throughput limiting feature: allow
no more that 20 messages per hour from the same person. Then spamming
the whole of Usenet would take a week. Plenty of time for removing
the offender's net access.
Nicholas A. DeSimone
[indirect.com]
Login: nike Name: Laurence Canter
Directory: /users/n/nike Shell: /etc/disabled
Last login Tue Apr 12 13:25 (MST) on ttypc from phx-ts4
No Plan.
>I'm affraid Laurence Canter won't be able to login in order to enjoy
>his email (hint: look at his current login shell). It seems that his
>sysadmin has already taken the appropriate actions and it makes no
>sense to punish a sysadmin for the mistakes of his users. If you're a
>sysadmin too, think that tomorrow one of your users may do the same
>thing.
>
>Just my $0.02,
>Dan
>--
>Dan Pop
>CERN, CN Division
>Email: dan...@cernapo.cern.ch
>Mail: CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
The problem is that indirect is a service provider like netcom, CRL,
etc. The idiots who sent this crap were paying them for internet access.
Since indirect (Internet Direct) has received over 30,000 flame mails
about these poeple, they have disabled the account. However, as a
response to the disabling the nike (I forget the lawfirm's real name)
account, the lawfirm has threatened to sue Internet Direct for $250,000.
The lawfirm that sent these stupid advertisements contends that they did
nothing illegal and as far as the law is concerned they are probably
right (not that I agree at with what they did). If you would like to
read more about this and live in the bay area the article is on the
front page of the business section in the San Jose Mercury on April 14,
1994.
Nick
Catherine Anne Foulston
>newsgroups, and when I just saw these two. That is ample time
>for indirect.com to be sending out cancels for these articles and
>saving themselves a lot of headaches. Why aren't they cancelling
If I were them I'd want to be careful since the slimebags would
probably then sue them for interfering with their service.
But there are probably at least 10,000 other people on the net
capable of helping out Indirect by canceling the postings.
Geoff Kuenning
>with lawsuits unless they deliver all the mail the Green Card Plague has
>generated. Guess Canter is a masochist.
I think Internet Direct should countersue for damages caused by the
plague. Clearly their reputation has been damaged, and their other
customers have suffered an interruption in service. The
sophistication of the post (piggybacking to reach local groups) shows
a clear understanding of the rules of the net and the predictable
effect of their posting.
--
Geoff Kuenning ge...@ficus.cs.ucla.edu ge...@ITcorp.com
Paul Crossman
Sridhar Venkataraman <sri...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu> wrote:
>I didn't want to go overboard since recording my call and suing later
>is a possibility. :-)
Hell, if they're lawyers, they should know that you can't record a phone call
without telling the caller that they are being taped...thus, no law suit, and
no leg to stand on... :)
--
Paul Crossman "With the lights out it's Metro. Tech. Park
UNIX System Manager less dangerous." 1 Park West
Avid Technology "Gonna find a way; a better Tewksbury, MA 01876
cros...@avid.com way!!!" - Kurt Cobain RIP (508) 640-3147
John Stanley
Damien Doligez <dol...@couchey.inria.fr> wrote:
>In article <2oh4ge$o...@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>, sta...@skyking.oce.orst.edu (John Stanley) writes:
>|> No, it's obviously deliberate whenever it happens, and having the same
>
>understanding was that the offender was indeed clueless.
Being clueless does not mean one does not do things deliberately.
>As for the random string, how about removing 10% from the beginning
>and end of the article before fingerprinting ? And not mentioning
>this feature in the user documentation ?
So, the first time someone tries to post the same thing over and over,
he sees it dissappear. He hears something about "duplicate filter", so
he puts a bogus random MD6 signature in each one, and they still
dissappear. He ftp's the code from some archive, and learns the 10%
secret, so he starts modifying the middle and bingo!
>Or maybe a better idea would be a throughput limiting feature: allow
>no more that 20 messages per hour from the same person.
Let's see. Someone posts his twenty messages discussing something valid.
He comes back two hours later, adds 5 more to a valid discussion. His
site, however, polls once a day. All 25 show up at the feed, and the
last 5 get nuked because he is over the limit.
So base the timing on the Date: header? Forge the date.
Make the timing test ONLY on the posting host? Lawyer gets a PC and
makes his own posting host with his own rules.
Slows em down a little, but people this dedicated to doing what they
want won't be stopped by a little extra programming.
James Nicoll + Jasmine
A possibility exists that a person could make a healthy living
committing acts which while not actionable themselves had a chance
of inspiring reactions which were actionable. I bet a lawyer could
have a pretty good idea of how close they could get to the line
of illegality and crossover, and at a quarter million a pop, it
doesn't take that many successful lawsuits to keep a firm in clover,
and you have a few million people to troll.
I'm thinking of a situation as potentially abusable as [to pick an
entirely random example] living in England, posting reams of abuse to groups
like [to pick two groups at random] soc.culture.canada and soc.culture.german,
and then using the rather stupid libel laws of England to sue for gobs-o-
cash [Ideedly, in an out-of-court settlement, so you don't run the risk of
losing].
For an idea of how out of hand this can get, read Orwell's comments in
his collected essays and journalism about text changes made to try to avoid
spurious lawsuits brought by people abusing the English legal system.
James Nicoll
--
If mail bounces, try jdni...@engrg.uwo.ca
"I've seen you flirt. You'd have to get her flat on her back with one foot in
your face."
Martin Schafer
>Matt Messina (mes...@umich.edu) wrote:
>: I'd support a cancel if his administrators won't do it -- not because of the
>: content, but to help conserve the resources of those users who must pay to
>: read news (unlike me). Actually even those of us who get our news for "free"
>: pay for it -- another reason to support a cancelation.
>
>I would very much like to cancel the articles... I'm not sure how to do
>it efficiently for a situation like this. Anyone who can help me out will
>be a net.hero.
>
If you had done this within a few hours of the original posting I would
say more power to you. However, at this point, the people who are going
to pay to receive it already have, so your just creating more charges
for the cancel. Even at four Megs it's not a big enough percentage of
the daily news traffic to be worth the global cancel simply to free up
disc space.
It's too late, leave it alone.
Dave Hayes
jo...@ariadne.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Jo Ann Malina) writes:
>I'm not usually a net.cop, but if every cheap hustler in America decides
>to flood the internet with crap like this, the whole thing will die an
>ugly death, to be replaced by a very expen$ive "information highway"
>owned by more hustlers in more expensive suits.
Don't you see?
If more people cry "restrictions" and "police", pretty soon the
"information highway" will just become another brainwashing tool for
those who think they know better than you and have the net.power to
back it up.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Ignore this crap. Get on
with life. It's a beautiful day outside.
------
Dave Hayes - Institutional Network & Communications - JPL/NASA - Pasadena CA
da...@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov da...@jato.jpl.nasa.gov ...usc!elroy!dxh
What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to
save a solid gold baby? Maybe we'll never know.
--
Dave Hayes - Institutional Network & Communications - JPL/NASA - Pasadena CA
da...@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov da...@jato.jpl.nasa.gov ...usc!elroy!dxh
The difference between a moral man and a man of honor is that the latter
regrets a discreditable act, even when it has worked and he has not been
caught.
Bob Brewin
the ``nike'' and ``cslaw'' accounts.
Internet Direct seems quite irritated with the mass post of the Green
Card come-on -- probably because the 26,000 messages ``root'' at that
site has received has overwhelmed their system.
Poster has received about 25,000 replies -- and assumption is none of
these are from folks seeking a chance in lottery.
Law firm which made the massive post is now threatening Internet Direct
with lawsuits unless they deliver all the mail the Green Card Plague has
generated. Guess Canter is a masochist.
Folks at Internet Direct were graceful under pressure -- they're as
bugged by the Green Card Plague as much as anyone on Usenet. Flood
of incoming traffic has really fouled up their ability to serve their
customers.
Bob Brewin
In Hyattsville Md.
Still a BMW-free Zone
Sameer Manek:SysOp
> Matt Messina (mes...@umich.edu) wrote:
> : I'd support a cancel if his administrators won't do it -- not because of th
> : content, but to help conserve the resources of those users who must pay to
> : read news (unlike me). Actually even those of us who get our news for "fre
> : pay for it -- another reason to support a cancelation.
>
> I would very much like to cancel the articles... I'm not sure how to do
> it efficiently for a situation like this. Anyone who can help me out will
> be a net.hero.
>
> Jeff
>
Jeff, I canceled as many copies as I could, atleast in the limited
number of newsgroups that I carry..about 100 off them.
My cancels were issued about 6-7 hours after the posts were made,
so they didn't reach the net in time to prevent too much damage.
plus canceling all 5000 posts must be hell.
BTW: Today's San Jose Mercury news as an artical on Canter & Siegal's
actions..if you need it for any pending trial or legal work, i'll
save it for ya. I've also sent a copy of it to the Arizona Bar.
---------------- Sameer Manek::SysOp of the BigBrother BBS -----------------
monitoring people's lives since George Orwell's 1984
Sea...@YesaNeXT.sbay.org "Starlight, starbright, wish I may, wish I
Sea...@YesaNeXT.TheTech.COM might, turn this PC into a NexT"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Rose
>Willard Dawson <wda...@willard.atl.ga.us> wrote:
>>qui...@netcom.com (Don Hosek) writes:
>>
>>>I got the following phone number for the Arizona Bar Asociation:
>>>602-252-4804. A call to complain about the practices of Laurence
>>>Canter of Canter & Siegel in Phoenix Arizona might finally put an end
>>>to this bullshit once and for all.
>
>Okay, I just called that Arizona Bar Assoc. at the above number (12 noon
>EST). A woman answered, I introduced myself and asked if she was aware
>of C&S's unsolicted advertising, and she very exhaustedly but politely said
>"Yes, we're aware of it, let me put you through to someone who can help you."
>
... text deleted ...
>
>Anyway - she was very polite, seemed genuinely interested, and took my name
>and number to call me back when she had more information.
>
I called that number at about 3:15 PST, and the lady who answered told
me that our legal hounds are registered to practice in Tennessee, and
gave the following number to call: (800) 486-5714
---
____________________________________________________________________
Ken Rose (ke...@storage.tandem.com)
The Usual Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed above are mine alone, not
those of my employer (who is kind enough to allow me Usenet access).
Jeremy Elson
Bob Brewin <bre...@access.digex.net> wrote:
>Internet Direct seems quite irritated with the mass post of the Green
>Card come-on -- probably because the 26,000 messages ``root'' at that
>site has received has overwhelmed their system.
I was going to write to I.D. and tell them that I applaud their action
in this matter (see their recent post of apology), but I think the
kindest thing I can do to them right now is to _not_ call or write
mail.
>Poster has received about 25,000 replies -- and assumption is none of
>these are from folks seeking a chance in lottery.
Even if 0.01% of them are, how will Canter find them?
>Law firm which made the massive post is now threatening Internet Direct
>with lawsuits unless they deliver all the mail the Green Card Plague has
>generated. Guess Canter is a masochist.
I think the best punishment of Canter would be to simply comply with
his request.
"You want all the email in your account? ALL of it? Sure, give me
your fax number and I'll send it right over."
-je
--
Jeremy Elson
Internet: jel...@cs.jhu.edu; Bitnet: jelson@jhunix
Dave Hayes
>The problem is that indirect is a service provider like netcom, CRL,
>etc. The idiots who sent this crap were paying them for internet access.
>Since indirect (Internet Direct) has received over 30,000 flame mails
>about these poeple, they have disabled the account. However, as a
>response to the disabling the nike (I forget the lawfirm's real name)
>account, the lawfirm has threatened to sue Internet Direct for $250,000.
You see? Let it go...ignore them and they'll ignore you.
--
Dave Hayes - Institutional Network & Communications - JPL/NASA - Pasadena CA
da...@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov da...@jato.jpl.nasa.gov ...usc!elroy!dxh
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power.
Michael Covington
clients, all of whom are suffering denial of service due to the massive
amount of email Mr. Green Card (or whatever his name is) has managed to,
er, attract.
I guess my deeper concern here is that although incidents like this
automatically generate their own punishment, the punishment does not
land on exactly the right people.
Could the Green Card Man be charged with deliberate unauthorized use of
the thousands of computers on which he has managed to post thousands of
copies of his message by misrepresenting their subject content?
--
< Michael A. Covington, Assc Rsch Scientist, Artificial Intelligence Programs >
< The University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602-7415 USA mcov...@ai.uga.edu >
< Unless specifically indicated, I am not speaking for the University. > <><
For information about any U.Ga. graduate program, email gra...@uga.cc.uga.edu.
Barry Brindisi
: In article <2odk2r$3...@herald.indirect.com>,
: Laurence Canter <ni...@indirect.com> wrote:
: >Green Card Lottery 1994 May Be The Last One!
: >THE DEADLINE HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
: This idiot individually posted this to a large number of mainstream
: newsgroups with crosspostings to local and regional hierachies. None of
: the mainstream newsgroups I saw this in was appropriate for this post.
: Since this seems to be in the same vein as the Clarance Thomas IV debacle,
: anyone care to clean up this mess for the same reasons?
Well Folks,
I happen to know that this idiot has managed to post to 5000 newsgroups!
If InTernet Direct had access to more newsgroup, the so-called lawyer
would have posted to more. By now, many of you probably have tried to
call Internet Direct in Phoenix to complain. Please direct your
e-mails, FAXes and phone calls to the law firm mentioned in the earlier
post. This jerk has already caused a tremendous overload with this stunt
and from what the sysads at Internet Direct told me, they're still trying
to get their server back up to speed. So please call either the Arizona
State Bar, the Tennese(sp) State Bar or perhap the US Attorney General
Office.
Barry Brindisi
pha...@indirect.com
Jason Kastner
>
>from what i've heard,the people behind cs...@indirect.com have threatened legal
>action against the people who operate indirect.com unless indirect.com
>gives cslaw all of the email received.
>
I read in another group that indirect.com has crashed several times
because of the flood of mail. Wouldn't it be too bad if one of the
files lost in a crash was /usr/spool/mail/cslaw ?
Judge: So let me get this straight, you are suing because indirect.com
failed to provide you with a file (which indirect.com probably never
agreed to protect in the first place; what provider would?) that was
destroyed when the machine crashed as a direct result of your post.
cslaw: Uhhh....
--
Jason Kastner ja...@wagner.com +1 408 745 1800
Usenet: It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.
Matt Simmons
: BTW: Today's San Jose Mercury news as an artical on Canter & Siegal's
: actions..if you need it for any pending trial or legal work, i'll
: save it for ya. I've also sent a copy of it to the Arizona Bar.
interested parties (like me)?
Joni Jarvenkyla
Lewis E. Wolfgang <wolf...@sunspot.nosc.mil> wrote:
>I just sent the following email to Mr. Canter at all three of his addresses.
Do not send e-mail.
Send them a fax or CALL them. Direct "attack" to their office is going
to create some havoc, but emailing only puts indirect & co into
trouble.
All numbers were in the original post.
Gunther Anderson
: I guess my deeper concern here is that although incidents like this
: automatically generate their own punishment, the punishment does not
: land on exactly the right people.
Could the old legal concept of yelling Fire! in a crowded movie house come
to bear? Through their negligence, by committing an act which could
reasonably have been predicted (especially with the benefit of the
repercussions of their previous attempt) to have precisely this sort of
response, they have denied service, incurred monetary damages, etc. to
both the management and patrons of Internet Direct. That the actions
were not explicitly illegal might not be important. Could their
negligence be used in criminal or civil suits against them?
: Could the Green Card Man be charged with deliberate unauthorized use of
: the thousands of computers on which he has managed to post thousands of
: copies of his message by misrepresenting their subject content?
Hopefully not. You see, the same weapons we the good guys get to use,
they the bad guys get to use. Imagine if Cosar decided to bring a class
action suit involving one or another of his various cancel wars?
Unauthorized access and forging or otherwise misrepresenting News are
concepts we want to keep very separate, lest Usenet really become the
legal spitting war everyone keeps promising it will be (JP, DJK, Cosar to
name a few). Film at 11.
Gunther Anderson
Damien Doligez
|> Being clueless does not mean one does not do things deliberately.
Right. But would they do it again if they attempt it once and they
get a warning from their friendly newsadmin ? For Laurence Canter,
the answer is certainly yes. For Clarence Thomas, I don't know.
|> So, the first time someone tries to post the same thing over and over,
|> he sees it dissappear. He hears something about "duplicate filter", so
|> he puts a bogus random MD6 signature in each one, and they still
|> dissappear. He ftp's the code from some archive, and learns the 10%
|> secret, so he starts modifying the middle and bingo!
Not quite. First time it disappears, but the newsadmin is alerted,
and the user gets a warning: "Don't do that !" So he hears about
this nasty "duplicate filter" (I'd rather call it a "spam detector"),
and tries the bogus random string trick. He gets a second warning
"Don't do that. I mean it !!!" (or he gets his news access removed,
depending on local policy) and he ends up in a "black list" file which
effectively makes his news access moderated. None of his posted
articles go directly to the net. Instead, they go to a file for the
newsadmin to read and post. The file is examined on a regular basis
(once every two years seems right to me) and his postings are only
just a little bit delayed. (-:
|> >Or maybe a better idea would be a throughput limiting feature: allow
|> >no more that 20 messages per hour from the same person.
|>
|> Let's see. Someone posts his twenty messages discussing something valid.
|> He comes back two hours later, adds 5 more to a valid discussion. His
|> site, however, polls once a day. All 25 show up at the feed, and the
|> last 5 get nuked because he is over the limit.
I would not nuke but only delay them. If somebody is posting
thousands of messages, they will accumulate in the queue instead of
flooding the Net. If somebody posts 25 messages, the last 5 get
delayed by 1 hour.
I know there is no way to make such schemes 100% efficient, but the
idea is to avoid most of the problems, not all of them. The
interesting problem is how to do it without too much work for
newsadmins.
Mari Johnson
Dave Hayes <da...@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>If more people cry "restrictions" and "police", pretty soon the
>"information highway" will just become another brainwashing tool for
>those who think they know better than you and have the net.power to
>back it up.
True.
>I've said it before, I'll say it again. Ignore this crap. Get on
>with life. It's a beautiful day outside.
False. Make a phone call to them _and_ send them a fax. I did.
Clog up their system like they did ours. _Then_ get on with life.
I have.
Mari Johnson
Sridhar Venkataraman <sri...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu> wrote:
>s...@garnet.msen.com (Steve Simmons) writes:
>From the White Pages ... All under 602 area code.
>State Bar of Arizona:
> How to File a Complaint 340 7280
>
>I called the "How to File a Complaint" no. and it is a machine
>operated service. Apparently, there seems to be no way to complain
>other than filing a written one.
Dial this number, as soon as the recording starts, press "4", as soon
as the next recording starts, press "1", at the tone, leave your name,
address and phone number AND NOTHING ELSE.
Before the "4" is a long litany tdesigned to make you give up before
they tell you to press "4" to file a complaint. Between the "4" and
the "1" is described what are and are not considered grounds for filing
a complaint, if you are interested in listening to the laundry list.
You will receive in the mail the needed forms. Fill them out and
return them promptly. The offending firm has to reply in writing to
each complaint received, and the bar will send a copy to you. All
proceedings are supposed to be kept confidential.
You can do this real late at night to save long distance charges.
Mari Johnson
John Stanley <sta...@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU> wrote:
>Slows em down a little, but people this dedicated to doing what they
>want won't be stopped by a little extra programming.
People dedicated to stealing my car radio won't be stopped by a little
lock on the door, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to start buying
cars without door locks.
Barry Brindisi
Internet, is it possible that this guy's post could have gotten attached
to a message going to AOL or some other Online Service? Or is this only
possible in a UNIX environemt?
Naaman Nickell
: David Lesher (wb8...@netcom.com) wrote:
: : I wonder if the State Bar might be a better place to complain....
: YES! Would someone in that state please take this one?
: The net world thanks you.
: --
: John Miller, N4VU Linux! Fayetteville
: j...@n4vu.Atl.GA.US DoD #1942 (Atlanta)
: {emory,gatech}!n4hgf!n4vu AMA #671301 GA, US
I talked to the State Bar Assn. here this a.m. and was told the
attorneys are not members. They only practice in federal court.
Naaman Nickell
Phoenix AZ
Scott McLoughlin
> incoming hate mail, AND, that they will be sued if they interfere with
> the law firm's mail. Hell, spin it out to your favorite backup device
> QIC, whatever, and then charge the firm $250,000 for the media. They
> won't have "interfered" then.
>
> If it comes to court, suggest that the judge privately review some of the
> admin's mail about this incident. Then suggest that the judge randomly
> pick any 10 messages from the media -- some of us networld'ers can get
> pretty flowery. :-)
> --
> Clay Haapala "Well, there was the process of sitting around
> cl...@haapi.mn.org and wishing I had more computer stuff."
> -- Dilbert
Howdy,
1) what do you mean by "interfere"?
2) sued for what?
3) if anything comes to court I would suggest
that identical civil disobediance efforts be
undertaken by our non-US based breathren who
reasonably wish to deter misuse of internet
newsgroups. This possibility alone should
deter anything going to trial.
=============================================
Scott McLoughlin
Conscious Computing
=============================================