Status Charlie Turnstyle Installs on Red Line (as of Mar-1st) ??
che...@gmail.com
So I am anxiously awaiting the install of Charlie Card Turnstyles on
the Red Line. The Globe article a few weeks ago stated that Red Line
installation would start from the Southern End in 'February'. Well
February is almost over, has installations begun yet? At Braintree,
Quincy Adams? If so I'll ride down there for fun and check them out,
as I have been doing off and on on the Blue Line for a few months.
Going to be very interested to see the most ridden subway line convert
to this!!
As a side-note, with all the talk about fare-increases and 'level'
ridership numbers, I would *hope* that the new system will cutdown a
lot on fare cheating, and there would be a bump-up in revenue on the
system. Thoughts?
TIA,
- Chex
pntx
pntx
AllstonPar...@hotmail.com
> As a side-note, with all the talk about fare-increases and 'level'
> ridership numbers, I would *hope* that the new system will cutdown a
> lot on fare cheating, and there would be a bump-up in revenue on the
> system. Thoughts?
If the new system slows down bus boarding as much as I think it will,
they'll lose my fare revenue entirely.
-Apr
John S
I heard that the fare cheating on the Blue line has been sharply reduced,
to the point where conflicts were occuring from fare evaders who weren't
used to being halted. But I haven't seen any numbers anywhere yet.
che...@gmail.com
> I heard that the fare cheating on the Blue line has been sharply reduced,
> to the point where conflicts were occuring from fare evaders who weren't
> used to being halted. But I haven't seen any numbers anywhere yet.
Yup. I heard this as well. Thus why I was asking the question I was,
but I dont think we'll really see anything yet. The Red Line, with its
huge ridership numbers, will be a good test.
> If the new system slows down bus boarding as much as I think it will,
> they'll lose my fare revenue entirely.
Hmm, a bad-attitude comment from the A.P.R.; what a surprise.
As part of my curiosity testing of the new Charlie Card system, I ride
the Blue Line up to Orient Heights, recharge my card, run it thru the
turnstyle, take blue line back to Gvt Cntr, Green Line to Boylston, and
hop on the Silver Line southbound to get to the #1 bus for my
destination. I use my just re-charged paper Charlie Card on the Silver
Line card readers, and get the free bus-transfer that comes with it. I
find the Card readers on the Silver Line buses are not that much slower
than paying by change now, and are a HELL of a lot
faster than people taking tons of time trying to jam the $1 bills in
the overflowing bill slots. So as long as you charge up a
'pay-as-you-ride' Charlie card and use that in the bus readers, I think
overall it will be FASTER than what we have now. If people insist on
using change and dollar bills on the new reader boxes, yes it will be
slower.
Max: Thanks for the info on the active AFC Red Line stations. I will do
a Charlie Card test-run to/back from Braintree some morning this week.
Should be fun.
-- Chex
Pete from Boston
> If people insist on
> using change and dollar bills on the new reader boxes, yes it will be
> slower.
I think this comment is unfair at best and customer-unsavvy at worst.
The T can't be designing a system where it is changing the fundamental
expectations for its non-passholding customers -- i.e., that they'd
better be going and getting themselves pre-paid Charlie Cards if they
expect reasonable boarding times.
First of all, occasional users -- anyone riding a few times a week or
less -- are going to (reasonably) expect to be able to use cash or
coins. Furthermore, unless Charlie Card dispensers become common at bus
stops (not going to happen), it's going to be impractical for many of
these riders to have the cards when boarding.
So to characterize non-users of the card as stubborn, which is how I
read "If people insist...," is not realistic. The T has to understand
how its customers use the system and design it accordingly, not design
for a perfect world and blame the customer base for not complying. Any
business with competition (which, come to think of it, the T does have)
would be nuts to take such an approach.
People use actual money, and are going to continue to do so. If this
gums up the new AFC system, the system is inadequate.
sabo...@gmail.com
give you a ticket back with your change. You can later on add more
value to this ticket so it is certainly not irrational for the
occasional bus rider to have a CharlieTicket. Also, if you are paying
cash it's much more natural for a visitor to insert the dollar like a
vending machine than to have to fold it up and shove it in a slot
hidden on the side.
It's change, but once people get used to it they'll see the benefits.
If you look at Chicago, NY, Washington, etc you'll see similar
card-based systems that have been successful for quite some time.
here@boo.ya John
<che...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1140898978....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
wyeknot
> John <not he...@boo.ya> wrote:
>
>>No card turnstyles at Quincy Adams this morning. (Tuesday)
>
>
Wollaston has the floor dug up for the install of the gates and has four
(I think?) bases installed to (presumably) receive four fare machines.
They've been doing a lot of work there lately, some of which was to run
all-new fire alarm conduits and pull-boxes.
Matt
John McLachlan
Interesting - the Charlie folks are laying conduit in Kendall this week
- when the 'north end' isn't scheduled until late spring. I wonder if
the schedule is morphing...
Anyone know if they're going to charlie-ize the iron maidens?
- J
sabo...@gmail.com
machines that seem like htey could be attached to those. Also if
you've been to the Aquarium station (on the Aquarium side of the
station) they have very tall gates and a metal bar along the top making
it impossible ot hop the gates. There are rumors these are going to be
installed at hte Symphony and Prudential green line stations that have
long had no turnstiles, slowing down service greatly. I've heard they
plan on having someone there during hte peak hours, but at night leave
it unattended since it's pretty difficult to get over them.
JS
Rozzie
(in article
<johnmc_yg-F0E70...@comcast.dca.giganews.com>):
>
> Interesting - the Charlie folks are laying conduit in Kendall this week
> - when the 'north end' isn't scheduled until late spring. I wonder if
> the schedule is morphing...
They are running wires through the conduits at Forest Hills. I've seen
work going on yesterday and today. I was wondering if this was Charlie
Card related. Also at JFK/UMass, there was a fenced-in area of parts
and tools in the middle of the waiting area. It's kind of exciting to
see this much activity all at once.
Karen Okland Wepsic
A woman I work with who gets on at Wollastan says they are busy
constructing there.
Karen Wepsic
sabo...@gmail.com
Red Line... that way they can get rid of the temporary south shore
warrant system they have in place and let the fair gates handle it all
automatically! Woo Hoo! one less silly thing to have to deal with when
travelling locally on the Braintree branch.
JS
John McLachlan
on the other end of the platforms - so they may indeed be charlie-ized.
In article <1141175680.4...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Pete from Boston
> Well, now there's conduit going from the fare area to the iron maidens
> on the other end of the platforms - so they may indeed be charlie-ized.
Well, they would *have* to be charlified, wouldn't they? I mean, all
they really have to do is install new card-reading equipment and
they're good to go. I couldn't reasonably see them eliminating all
non-attended entrances in the conversion.
justlooking
CharlieTicket debut causes a big backup
By L. Kim Tan | March 2, 2006
Poor Charlie. His debut at the Braintree train station on Feb. 17 was
-- well, let's just say he tripped and fell on the platform while
attempting the triple salchow-double toe loop combo.
A week after the MBTA brought its automated fare collection system to
Braintree, forcing Red Line passengers to use not coins and subway
tokens but a funny-looking card called the CharlieTicket, named after
the hapless figure in the song, folks were blistering the transit
authority with complaints and questions about the conversion. The Feb.
23 announcement by the T that it plans to raise fares by about 25
percent in January 2007 didn't help, of course.
sabo...@gmail.com
to the blue like and confused looks there. However if you watch people
at rush hour there, they rush right to the gates with their passes or
straight to the machine to add money to their ticket. You rarely see
the T employees need to help someone, unless they've never seen it
before. Change takes time, but when the whole system is the same it
will be second nature. Have you ridden the subway anywhere else? NY,
Chicago, Washington - they all have a ticket/card system and eliminated
tokens completely.
As for being forced, i'm pretty sure it is a free country if you'd
rather walk or take a taxi.
JS
JimMA
is now, whenever it's busy the operators have to choose between causing
delays with front-door boarding, or not collecting fares at all. In my
experience they collect fares less than half the time during rush hour
(not that I blame them). These are 2 stations where you'd see a
massive revenue jump with gates installed -- even if some people jump
them, having the honest people pay is better than nothing.
And I know it's a pipe dream, but if they'd put a charlie-ized
unattended entrance on the Boylston side of Hynes/ICA, I would be one
happy commuter...
Pete from Boston
> It would be a great idea to put gates at the Pru and Symphony. As it
> is now, whenever it's busy the operators have to choose between causing
> delays with front-door boarding, or not collecting fares at all. In my
> experience they collect fares less than half the time during rush hour
> (not that I blame them). These are 2 stations where you'd see a
> massive revenue jump with gates installed -- even if some people jump
> them, having the honest people pay is better than nothing.
>
> And I know it's a pipe dream, but if they'd put a charlie-ized
> unattended entrance on the Boylston side of Hynes/ICA, I would be one
> happy commuter...
Whose current status kind of flies in the face of my earlier comment
about how the T is not going to just close entrances based on them not
being staffed.
Why exactly did they close this one? It wasn't that long ago -- I
recall it being open maybe 6 or 7 years ago. Safety would be my first
guess, but it'd be hypocritical given that Pru and Symphony are
unstaffed altogether (and the accountable T would never, ever be
hypocritical).
JimMA
walkway was too large an area to leave unsupervised. This strikes me
as a pretty flimsy rationalization since it's not any greater a
distance than the walkways at State, Winter St, or Haymarket -- and at
Hynes most of the distance is outdoors and visible from the street.
And yes, anyone who's used Symphony late at night will find their
"safety" excuse for closing entrances to be suspect at best.
sabo...@gmail.com
Only the old closed entrance had the new equipment today so I'm not
sure if they plan on leaving the turnstiles up for a while or if they
are going to do a quick install over the weekend, but be ready Monday.
John McLachlan
unattended entrances - those that were actually convenient to use.
Berkeley st, Auditorium and Park st (east side) are all entrances I used
to use and would still love to use, but they were closed for my
convenience :)
- J
In article <1141313008....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
sabo...@gmail.com
which I beleive will re-open the closed "emergency exit" end. They are
also adding an elevator.
Also an FYI, the T's poll says that the following stations and more
will have Charlie in March & April: South Station, North Quincy,
Lechmere, Kendall, Oak Grove. I beleive Quincy Adams should also be on
that list as someone had already posted a date for that one.
John McLachlan
"sabo...@gmail.com" <sabo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also an FYI, the T's poll says that the following stations and more
> will have Charlie in March & April: South Station, North Quincy,
> Lechmere, Kendall, Oak Grove. I beleive Quincy Adams should also be on
> that list as someone had already posted a date for that one.
I guess they're "bending" the original schedule.
JimMA
the high-bar gates like at the back end of Aquarium (and similar to
many used in NYC, I think) they would be almost impossible to jump.
The ceiling is quite low, there wouldn't be more than 12-18" open above
the bar. They could always put some kind of grill over the top too.
Thought of another place this would be a good idea -- the Franklin St
entrance to Downtown Crossing. There's a wheelchair gate there now
that takes passes and tokens, but it's another fairly low ceiling and
there is a collector (sorry, 'customer service ambassador') and often
police at the other end of the platform.
Also w/r/t the schedule, there is a bunch of equipment at JFK but I
don't think it's Charlie-related. They seem to be doing work on the
lighting system.
David Z Maze
> Thought of another place this would be a good idea -- the Franklin St
> entrance to Downtown Crossing. There's a wheelchair gate there now
> that takes passes and tokens, but it's another fairly low ceiling and
> there is a collector (sorry, 'customer service ambassador') and often
> police at the other end of the platform.
This is a great place for fare evasion, if you were ever trying to get
on to the T without paying. Either (a) the gate isn't shut, or (b)
one of your twelve closest friends uses a pass or token to open the
gate and you all walk through. Great idea for the handicapped, but if
you're going to put a gate in anywhere it kind of does need to be
manned. I'd hate to be trying to navigate around the Downtown
Crossing area in a wheelchair, it looks terrible (there's no way to
transfer red-to-orange without leaving the station).
--dzm
Steve Kl.
JimMA <jgea...@netscape.net> wrote:
>Thought of another place this would be a good idea -- the Franklin St
>entrance to Downtown Crossing.
I vote for:
*the Clarendon side of the Back Bay station (might be impossible)
*the Berkeley Street entrance of the Arlington station
--
-- Steve Kl.
sabo...@gmail.com
entrance that has been closed for some time is active for entrance.
The side where the turnstiles were is under construction to install the
new gates but they were allowing people to exit that direction, making
the transition easier.
To their credit there was someone at every other gate to show you what
way to put your passes in, along with a new sticker put over the gate
which seems like a good idea to help people get it right (at least when
there isn't a crowd pushing you through it). I stuck around for maybe
10 minutes and saw a few angry faces, but a bunch of smiling once that
I hadn't expected. I also talked to one of the T employees inside was
helping direct people once they made it through, who was suprisingly
quite friendly. I asked him if he knew why they hadn't put up signs
with more details (like a "Put your CharlieTicket in this way" sign
last week might have helped at least a few people that read it). He
said they were told more info went out, including the MBTA website
(which to this minute has no note that CharlieTickets are even accepted
@ SS, let alone that they were coming today...)
I think it's a big step though. To date this is the most visible
"local/commuter" station so combined with the passes now being labled
CharlieTickets, people may start to know about it instead of be in
total shock.
Rozzie
(in article <1141684427.0...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>):
> I stuck around for maybe
> 10 minutes and saw a few angry faces, but a bunch of smiling once that
> I hadn't expected. I also talked to one of the T employees inside was
> helping direct people once they made it through, who was suprisingly
> quite friendly.
I think, for the most part, people are looking forward to the Charlie
Ticket and Charlie Card experience. Who wants to carry around 6
quarters, 2 dimes, 2 nickels, and 2 tokens for a trip downtown? It's
going to make things easier, it'll make more of the deadbeats pay the
fare, and hopefully save some money for the T.
My one experience on the subway (so far) with a Charlie Ticket was a
little confusing, but a friendly T person showed me how to use it and
now I'll know the routine for the future.
> I asked him if he knew why they hadn't put up signs
> with more details (like a "Put your CharlieTicket in this way" sign
> last week might have helped at least a few people that read it).
This is the hard part - you have to think of the ticket in reverse.
The colorful side you always thought of as the front, is actually the
back. The black & white side, with all the current info, goes face up
into the reader. At least I think that's right. :)
The only thing I'll miss about the old fare system is the old
"Metropolitan Transit Authority" tokens, which still show up in
surprisingly high numbers, 40 years after the MBTA took over.
sabo...@gmail.com
>
> I think, for the most part, people are looking forward to the Charlie
> Ticket and Charlie Card experience. Who wants to carry around 6
> quarters, 2 dimes, 2 nickels, and 2 tokens for a trip downtown? It's
> going to make things easier, it'll make more of the deadbeats pay the
> fare, and hopefully save some money for the T.
>
> My one experience on the subway (so far) with a Charlie Ticket was a
> little confusing, but a friendly T person showed me how to use it and
> now I'll know the routine for the future.
>
> This is the hard part - you have to think of the ticket in reverse.
> The colorful side you always thought of as the front, is actually the
> back. The black & white side, with all the current info, goes face up
> into the reader. At least I think that's right. :)
>
> The only thing I'll miss about the old fare system is the old
> "Metropolitan Transit Authority" tokens, which still show up in
> surprisingly high numbers, 40 years after the MBTA took over.
True, it is a little un-natural... but the instructions on the old pass
said "direction of motion" and everyone figured that out so I'm sure
we'll be fine. Once they roll out the CharlieCard it will be easier
anyways for frequent riders who can just hold the card up to the reader
(without even removing it from a wallet!)
They did make the arrow pretty obvious so that once someone does it
once or twice they should be able to figure it out again. Like I've
said before, watch people at rush hour on the blue line. Walk right up
to the gate and through first try, no problem.
Thankfully every other major transit system in the US has an electronic
system already so it's not a foreign concept to everyone, just the
local Bostonians...
William O'Hara
> system already so it's not a foreign concept to everyone, just the
> local Bostonians...
However, we already had an electronic system prior to Charlie.
--
---
William O'Hara
sabo...@gmail.com
William O'Hara wrote:
>
> However, we already had an electronic system prior to Charlie.
>
Only if you had a monthly pass... If you got a visitor pass it was like
a scratch off lottery ticket, weekly passes were cardboard, and
obviously tokens for one trip.
William O'Hara
Bus Drivers were supposed to enter counts into
the machine for paper tickets. The weekly
pass was a lame idea. I'm still uncertain
about it. Who can't afford a monthly pass
for $71 or $79? Don't say I would be suprised.
16.50 x 4 = 66
18.50 x 4 = 74
One can take advantage of the sytem for
a few dollars some months. When someone gets
a net pay check for $300 weekly, you are telling
me that they can't afford a monthly pass?
I don't mean you but the transit union and
the MBTA. The MBTA instituted a complication
to the pricing structure that wasn't needed.
Steve Kl.
William O'Hara <whoo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Bus Drivers were supposed to enter counts into
>the machine for paper tickets. The weekly
>pass was a lame idea. I'm still uncertain
>about it. Who can't afford a monthly pass
>for $71 or $79? Don't say I would be suprised.
Are you serious? Haven't you been on a bus and see someone
paying the fare with a collection of nickles and pennies? There
are people who have problems scraping together 90 cents, let alone
$71 all at once.
--
-- Steve Kl.
Rozzie
(in article <Xns977F91D6372EEKB...@216.196.97.142>):
> The weekly
> pass was a lame idea. I'm still uncertain
> about it. Who can't afford a monthly pass
> for $71 or $79? Don't say I would be suprised.
A: Lots of people can't afford $71 at once. The weekly pass was a
great idea.
B: Not everyone rides the T every day. If you take 2 weeks vacation,
the weekly pass is a good way to go.
> 16.50 x 4 = 66
> 18.50 x 4 = 74
Multiply by 4.3 for a more accurate total. Every month except February
has a few extra days at the end. 16.50 x 4.3 = 70.95 and it's hard to
imagine someone waiting in line to buy a weekly pass over and over, to
save a nickel.
> One can take advantage of the sytem for
> a few dollars some months. When someone gets
> a net pay check for $300 weekly, you are telling
> me that they can't afford a monthly pass?
Personally, I wish more people would budget their finances so they
weren't hanging on desperately from paycheck to paycheck, but the
reality is that a lot of people do live this way, and the T is smart to
try to accommodate them.
sabo...@gmail.com
> A: Lots of people can't afford $71 at once. The weekly pass was a
> great idea.
>
> B: Not everyone rides the T every day. If you take 2 weeks vacation,
> the weekly pass is a good way to go.
Totally agreed. There are plenty of people in this city that can't
afford transit let alone other things. Especially those who live
paycheck to paycheck.
It would be nice if once they swithc the whole system to the Charlie
system if they change to "30 day" or "7 day" passes like NYC has. That
way you can purchase the cards whenever and they expire the correct
amount of days from the first time they are used. Easier if you aren't
in the city the first week of a month. It would also help eliminate
the long lines waiting for passes (although the fact you will be able
to renew your pass at any station or online will help too).
JS
William O'Hara
>> great idea.
>>
>> B: Not everyone rides the T every day. If you take 2 weeks vacation,
>> the weekly pass is a good way to go.
>
> Totally agreed. There are plenty of people in this city that can't
> afford transit let alone other things. Especially those who live
> paycheck to paycheck.
I can't believe you guys. I ride the bus all
the time. I see the knucleheads that try
to rip the system with incorrect transfers and
inadequate change.
I challenge you to head to a local keno shop
and ask how many of the users are weekly pass
holders.
Furthermore, Boston is one the cheapest cities going.
People would stand in line to make a dime. This is
shared cultural experience that you appreciate after
living here. It is something that makes us unique
from New York'ers.
I figure that pretty soon, the MBTA will have
exit fairs everywhere. The prices will go up.
These "poor" riders shall be paying them, regardless.
How come they didn't excecute a weekly commuter
rail pass?
Bill
sabo...@gmail.com
> I can't believe you guys. I ride the bus all
> the time. I see the knucleheads that try
> to rip the system with incorrect transfers and
> inadequate change.
A ton of the old GFI/Genfare fareboxes don't show on the screen how
much you have put in anymore, and it can be hard to tell through the
window what was put in. The new boxes at least show the correct total
(benefiting both the customer and the driver).
> I challenge you to head to a local keno shop
> and ask how many of the users are weekly pass
> holders.
>
> Furthermore, Boston is one the cheapest cities going.
> People would stand in line to make a dime. This is
> shared cultural experience that you appreciate after
> living here. It is something that makes us unique
> from New York'ers.
>
> I figure that pretty soon, the MBTA will have
> exit fairs everywhere. The prices will go up.
> These "poor" riders shall be paying them, regardless.
Highly unlikely. The T is spending a ton of money to put in the
CharlieTicket system and the gates are not designed to read fare media
on the exit side. I would HIGHLY doubt they would go through the
trouble of upgrading them all after the fact. They might not plan
things that well all the time, but this is far too big of an investment
to screw up. Also with talks of the fare hike in '07 the GM has
mentioned several times that he wants to simplify the fare structure
and possibly eliminate the Braintree exit fare.
> How come they didn't excecute a weekly commuter
> rail pass?
Logistics I would imagine. Printing a weekly pass for 8 zones is quite
a bit more paper they would have to ship around. Again with the new
system where passes can be printed on demand (or eventually loaded on a
CharlieCard) it may be easier to do now.
William O'Hara
> a bit more paper they would have to ship around. Again with the new
> system where passes can be printed on demand (or eventually loaded on a
> CharlieCard) it may be easier to do now.
You only have to print one type of piece of paper
and it validated by the issuing clerk. Surely,
they could have executed this. It was done
for years in the manual days of other systems.
Actually, the MBTA has only been around during
the era of "modern" fare collection.
I think the exit fares are coming. I think the
prices shall rise without increasing the distance
travelled for the poor souls. I don't think
there will ever again be a general free mode-
transfer, either. Why? It goes against the
whole generation of MBTA philosophy. Many
of the current users would resist until the
feeder buses only brought them to a heavy rail
station.
Steve Kl.
William O'Hara <whoo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I challenge you to head to a local keno shop
>and ask how many of the users are weekly pass
>holders.
The existence of keno players who hold weekly passes does
not negate the reality of those who hold weekly passes,
do not play keno, and cannot afford the $70 at a time for
the monthly pass.
Why does it bother you so much that a person would need to
buy a pass a week at time, anyway? It shows that they're obviously
making some attempt at budgeting, in that they are able to get
enough money to buy a pass a week at a time, instead of tokens
singly as they need them.
--
-- Steve Kl.
JimMA
boarding at Prudential tries to swipe their Charlie Ticket in the
farebox (yes, they collected fares for once). Operator informs
passenger "You still owe me $1.25".
Customer says there is $3.75 on the card, they bought it for $5 that
morning on the blue line. Operator informs customer that "those
tickets are only good on the red, blue and orange lines. The green
line isn't rapid transit so we don't take those." Ends up letting the
guy ride for free anyway.
Obviously they need to do a better job of pointing out at
CharlieStations that the stored value tickets don't work in most places
on the system. Making the monthly passes into identical CharlieTickets
has made this part mass confusion. His ticket looks almost exactly
like my pass, but my pass works everywhere and his ticket only works at
~10 stations. And let's not even get started on the bad information
the operator gave out. Communication is starting to be a problem -- I
bet a lot of tourists are going to be in the same boat as that guy now
that South Station is a CharlieStation.
Rozzie
(in article <Xns978064955FC5EKB...@216.196.97.142>):
> How come they didn't excecute a weekly commuter
> rail pass?
They have 10 ride tickets. Same type of thing. Too bad they
eliminated the discount that used to go along with 12 ride tickets,
when they raised fares the last time.
sabo...@gmail.com
JimMA wrote:
> Obviously they need to do a better job of pointing out at
> CharlieStations that the stored value tickets don't work in most places
> on the system. Making the monthly passes into identical CharlieTickets
> has made this part mass confusion. His ticket looks almost exactly
> like my pass, but my pass works everywhere and his ticket only works at
> ~10 stations. And let's not even get started on the bad information
> the operator gave out. Communication is starting to be a problem -- I
> bet a lot of tourists are going to be in the same boat as that guy now
> that South Station is a CharlieStation.
Alright I can see two sides of this. The changing of the monthly
passes was more of a publicity stunt by the T to get frequent rider's
attention. Good idea, bad execution. In Chicago when they introduced
their system they included a brochure explaining the changes and how to
use them when you purchased it. I sure hope they do that when they
introduce the CharlieCard later this year (any MBTA employee's reading
this?). There are close to 200,000 monthly pass buyers, I'm 100% that
many people have not purchased a CharlieTicket and found out it only
works at certain stations, so I guess in the T's eye the change worked.
There are signs on each machine, as well as on the scrolling LED sign
mounted to one machine at each station. I've also heard several T
employees tell people when they purchase the ticket that it's only good
at limited stops. The MBTA website also lists the locations (although
I certainly don't expect everyone to have access/read that).
Lastly not to get nit picky, but there are 13 stations and 12 stops on
the Silver Line that use the CharlieTicket system. Now with Airport
and South Station being active, a lot more people are being exposed to
it.
JS
William O'Hara
> buy a pass a week at time, anyway? It shows that they're obviously
> making some attempt at budgeting, in that they are able to get
> enough money to buy a pass a week at a time, instead of tokens
> singly as they need them.
Why? The fare structure received a new wrinkle and becomes
more complicated to serve a population that doesn't want or
need it. While everyone else doesn't receive it.
William O'Hara
> eliminated the discount that used to go along with 12 ride tickets,
> when they raised fares the last time.
It isn't the same thing. You only receive limited
service. You can't take the red line or any bus.
Weekly Combo holders get all the services of a regular
monthly pass, which 10-riders do not receive comparable
access to their service range.
wyeknot
As of this morning, the new gate machines are in places but not in use.
The self-service Charlie Card vending machines bases are installed,
but the machines themselves are nowhere to be seen.
They were also excavating the floor drains presumably to fix the station
flooding that occurs everytime it rains.
Matt
sabo...@gmail.com
Max Alginin wrote:
> John <not he...@boo.ya> wrote:
> Quincy Adams - 03/15 +- 1 day.
>
> Max
Anybody been out there lately? I heard the gates were up but haven't
heard they are active. Never quite sure since it took the T 2 days to
get South Station listed on their website..
JS
sabo...@gmail.com
Max Alginin wrote:
>
> It got delayed by a few days due to the station contractor having to
> accelerate South Station work. It should open really soon now.
>
> Max
Cool... maybe you know something about this too - I noticed a green
fence at Symphony inbound on the E Branch of the Green Line. Looks
similar to those used to section off areas under construction for the
AFC. Anyone know if that's what it's for? I know they are going to add
the high gates to Symphony and Prudential, sooner would sure be nicer
than later!
JS
pntx
QUINCY - Charlie continued to work his way up the Red Line today,
making his debut at the Quincy Adams stop.
Commuters were faced not only with a line of new automated card
machines and customer service agents, but also police officers and
other officials.......
sabo...@gmail.com
the MBTA (nevermind, that isn't really a suprise).
Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Card and
http://www.transitworks.org/pdfs/WhereCharlie.pdf for a feeling of when
the next stations will be up.
P.S. If there are any T employee's out here, how come the AFC website
is so pathetic and none of my comments have been responded to about it
on "Write to the Top"? I really wish they would put some graphics up
instead of just a text based directions... or maybe a flash-based
'virtual vending machine' so people can try it out before they go to
the station?
JS
Rozzie
(in article <1142978979.8...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>):
I happened to be there today at about 9 AM and saw things moving very
well at both the entrances and exits. Lots of T people were on hand to
help people with the sales machines, and to remind them to insert the
cards "white side up."
here@boo.ya John
"Rozzie" <rozzi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C04630CF...@news.verizon.net...
Same story at 7:15 AM. T people were helping those who needed it and wish
all a good day.
Rozzie
(in article <1142998461.4...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>):
> P.S. If there are any T employee's out here...I really wish they would put
some graphics up
> instead of just a text based directions... or maybe a flash-based
> 'virtual vending machine' so people can try it out before they go to
> the station?
That is a really cool idea and I just hope someone from the T is
reading this and will take you up on it.
JimMA
mbta.com. That way you could check whether you need tickets or tokens
before your trip.
sabo...@gmail.com
John McLachlan
"sabo...@gmail.com" <sabo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Quincy Center tomorrow (3/24). TransitWatch was saying (4/7).
I think Kendall will be on line monday if not sooner (3/27) On both
sides, 'foundations' for sales machines were in place. On the way
home, all the turnstyles on the Inbound side were gone, and we were
herded through a small entrance (no collections taking place either).
Interestingly, no 'pre' notification, as in fliers saying 'expect
changes coming".
- J
sabo...@gmail.com
John McLachlan wrote:
> Interestingly, no 'pre' notification, as in fliers saying 'expect
> changes coming".
>
> - J
They tend to do that a few days before the switch over. It won't be
Monday. Once the gates are installed they'll be on for several days
before they are used, usually displaying "Service/Maintenence" on the
screens at each gate.
JS
John McLachlan
> Monday. Once the gates are installed they'll be on for several days
> before they are used, usually displaying "Service/Maintenence" on the
> screens at each gate.
Well, silly me thought they would take advantage of the weekend. I
went through the station during Saturday's red line debacle - and of
course no one was working in Kendall at all.
wyeknot
> Wollaston update:
Charlie will be rolled out tomorrow, Tuesday March 28th.
Matt
Pete from Boston
With turnstyles removed, attendants have been taking tokens in a hopper
the past few days. Until today, that is, because they've stopped
selling tokens while moving the booth to a new, presumably temporary
location. As a result, inbound service from Kendall is presently free.
Ever wanted to ride the Red Line but couldn't come up with $1.25?
Today's your lucky day.
sabo...@gmail.com
Pete from Boston wrote:
> > Well, silly me thought they would take advantage of the weekend. I
> > went through the station during Saturday's red line debacle - and of
> > course no one was working in Kendall at all.
>
> With turnstyles removed, attendants have been taking tokens in a hopper
> the past few days. Until today, that is, because they've stopped
> selling tokens while moving the booth to a new, presumably temporary
> location. As a result, inbound service from Kendall is presently free.
>
> Ever wanted to ride the Red Line but couldn't come up with $1.25?
> Today's your lucky day.
Usually they take cash in those large hoppers as well, I'm suprised
that they wouldn't take anything. That's what they did at other
stations anyways.
Also, Aquarium has some new booth thing it looks like they are
building... Not quite sure what the plan is with that.
JS
Pete from Boston
sabo...@gmail.com wrote:
> Pete from Boston wrote:
> > > Well, silly me thought they would take advantage of the weekend. I
> > > went through the station during Saturday's red line debacle - and of
> > > course no one was working in Kendall at all.
> >
> > With turnstyles removed, attendants have been taking tokens in a hopper
> > the past few days. Until today, that is, because they've stopped
> > selling tokens while moving the booth to a new, presumably temporary
> > location. As a result, inbound service from Kendall is presently free.
> >
> > Ever wanted to ride the Red Line but couldn't come up with $1.25?
> > Today's your lucky day.
>
> Usually they take cash in those large hoppers as well, I'm suprised
> that they wouldn't take anything. That's what they did at other
> stations anyways.
There was no one manning the way in earlier. They have a temporary
booth set up as well, but the sign in it said "no tokens for sale."
Could have been that people were supposed to go to the other side, but
as I said, everyone I saw was just walking through an open gap.
John McLachlan
sabo...@gmail.com
John McLachlan wrote:
> Well, they sure take their time with this stuff :)
Ya I'm not really sure why they tear up the floor, lay some conduit and
then wait a week. Are there only 4 people that are converting the
enire system (this is the T so I'm sure there are 15 union supervisors
for those 4 people)...
I did find out from a source that sometimes there are delays once the
equipment is in place for the MBTA to test it to their satisfaction.
It really seems like most of the delay from the casual observer
standpoint is that they start and then just stop working for a week.
JS
wyeknot
Charlie has been fully operational at Wollaston since last Tuesday. I
haven't noticed any problems at all. And it was mighty convenient to
purchase my monthly pass at the station - the transaction took less than
30 seconds.
Matt
sabo...@gmail.com
MBTA released a PDF brochure outlining how the South Shore Warrant will
be replaced by the CharlieTicket system. Apparently they are saying
April 11th is the cut-over date. It will be really nice for people not
to have to get a warrant anymore!
Info at
http://www.mbta.com/projects_underway/afc/pdf/Red_Line_Local_Travel_Info_Effective_April_11_2006.pdf
JS
John McLachlan
read it....
And back on the thread - over half the charlie gates are installed at
Kendall inbound. No sales booths up yet. And this weird
semi-circular thing - like a booth with room for one person to stand in.
No clue that that's all about...
In article <1144102616....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Karen Okland Wepsic
John McLachlan wrote:
> That was a bizarre pamphlet. I didn't understand anything after having
> read it....
>
>
> And back on the thread - over half the charlie gates are installed at
> Kendall inbound. No sales booths up yet. And this weird
> semi-circular thing - like a booth with room for one person to stand in.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No clue that that's all about...
My guess is that the semi-circular thing is for the customer service
agent.
Karen Wepsic
Rozzie
(in article
<johnmc_yg-08A64...@comcast.dca.giganews.com>):
> That was a bizarre pamphlet. I didn't understand anything after having
> read it....
I read the South Shore Warrant pamphlet also and it was very hard to
figure out. The only consolation I had was that it doesn't apply to me
since I never travel locally between Braintree and Quincy. I guess
most people who do, are used to an already confusing system of warrants
(where did they ever get that name?) and they'll get used to an equally
confusing system of Charlie Ticket validations.
I bet most infrequent travelers between those stations don't even know
the warrants exist, and just forfeit the extra fare. That will
probably continue to happen about as much as before.
JimMA
Karen Okland Wepsic wrote:
>
> My guess is that the semi-circular thing is for the customer service
> agent.
>
> Karen Wepsic
They have one like that at Aquarium where the agents tend to sit.
Although they also left the old collector's booth standing in the
middle of the gates.
FWIW the agent-desk-thing at Aquarium looks pretty cheap and temporary.
Maybe phase II is going to be taking out the old booths and putting in
permanent employee stations?
SaveBowdoin
Lechmere Station will definately be up and running on Monday (April
10th) according to signs posted at the station today.
Kendall remains the same, with a single part of a new gate in place,
but no new progress this morning. No date posted at the station yet.
Courthouse Station has one active TVM, with two others covered in
plastic orange fencing, presumably not connected, off on the outbound
side of the mezzanine.
One of the TVM's at Airport Station has been shut off and "out of
order" for weeks.
Posters have been placed in all stations with "Customer Information"
boards, featuring a general schedule for AFC implementation over the
next three months. Of note, which hasn't been mentioned before, is the
Silver Line / Logan Terminals will be running by June. I don't remember
all of the stations listed, but a few Orange Line / Red Line / Green
Line stations I hadn't seen listed before. Haymarket is supposed to be
running in April as well.
Also, some of the CharlieTickets now feature a fluorescent orange arrow
on the printing side as opposed to the black outlined arrow seen on
initial rolls of tickets. Is this what they'll have from now on?
Mike
John McLachlan
my company had this posted today. Interesting how Kendall and the
South Shore are linked. I'm not sure where the information originally
came from.
The Kendall/MIT (inbound only) and Lechmere subway stations are
scheduled to begin using the new Automated Fare Collection (AFC) system
during the second week of April. Implementation of the AFC system will
start with the first sections of new CharlieTicket fare gates and
vending machines.
To use a Charlie Ticket in an Automated Fare Collection machine, insert
the pass into the fare gate (Charlie side down, arrow facing up and
towards the gate). After it pops out of the top, take the pass back; the
fare gates will open.
MBTA staff will be on location at these stations in the days leading up
to AFC system activation, and new customer service personnel will staff
the converted stations to assist riders with the new system. For more
information about the system, visit
http://www.mbta.com/projects_underway/afc/index.asp#. An additional
source of information is http://www.masscommute.com/tmas/crtma/.
Most Red Line Stations from South Station southward towards Braintree
and Ashmont already are converted to the new system or will be converted
soon, while stations in Cambridge (Alewife through Central) will not be
converted until later in the summer and fall. By converting only the
inbound side of Kendall/MIT, customers from the south will utilize the
new faregates and machines, while riders from Cambridge and Somerville
points will continue to use the old token system for the time being,
until their home stations are converted. This schedule was designed to
minimize confusion for customers unsure of which type of fare to use.
Rozzie
today. There are Charlie Ticket machines, still boxed, installed all
over the place. The MBTA poster says Forest Hills will go online in
May, but I wonder if it may be sooner.
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 17:59:39 -0400, SaveBowdoin wrote
(in article <1144447179.8...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>):
> Also, some of the CharlieTickets now feature a fluorescent orange arrow
> on the printing side as opposed to the black outlined arrow seen on
> initial rolls of tickets. Is this what they'll have from now on?
It sounds like a good idea. After people use the ticket a time or two,
they'll get the idea of how to insert it, but there will always be a
good percentage of people who are not regular riders.
Ron Newman
"SaveBowdoin" <bowd...@mac.com> wrote:
> Courthouse Station has one active TVM, with two others covered in
> plastic orange fencing, presumably not connected, off on the outbound
> side of the mezzanine.
I thought the whole Silver Line Waterfront had been converted. It
hasn't been yet?
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
sabo...@gmail.com
Ron Newman wrote:
> I thought the whole Silver Line Waterfront had been converted. It
> hasn't been yet?
Courthouse, World Trade, and South Station have been converted to have
the new gates. The next step is putting the new fareboxes on the
busses and vending machines at the airport terminals (allowing people
to purchase in advance and use credit/debit cards).
JS
AllstonPar...@hotmail.com
> That was a bizarre pamphlet. I didn't understand anything after having
> read
it....
What's to not understand? If you travel between stations in Quincy or
Braintree and use the same Charlie Ticket to enter and exit within 30
minutes, the exit fare isn't deducted from your card at Quincy Adams or
Braintree. And if you paid a double entry fare, you get one fare back
if you run the ticket through a special refund machine after exiting.
I don't understand why the refund machine is necessary (probably
stupidity in the card system software), but that's not the pamphlet's
fault.
-Apr
sabo...@gmail.com
AllstonPar...@hotmail.com wrote:
> What's to not understand? If you travel between stations in Quincy or
> Braintree and use the same Charlie Ticket to enter and exit within 30
> minutes, the exit fare isn't deducted from your card at Quincy Adams or
> Braintree. And if you paid a double entry fare, you get one fare back
> if you run the ticket through a special refund machine after exiting.
>
> I don't understand why the refund machine is necessary (probably
> stupidity in the card system software), but that's not the pamphlet's
> fault.
>
> -Apr
I agree with John. They should have just listed the steps instead of
having several different columns of facts you are supposed to put
together yourself.
Also it isn't a seperate refund machine, it's the normal vending
machines that you use, so maybe it confused you too? ;-)
JS
SaveBowdoin
that Courthouse had two disconnected TVMs in place, with only one
online, even though it has been running for about a month now. I guess
the purchase volume at that station doesn't warrant more than one
machine; however I'd think they would want at least two, in case one
breaks down. Courthouse's ridership is usually VERY low for an
underground station, but I don't think that warrants only one
machine...
Anyone know when / if Science Park is scheduled to go online? They
never replaced the token machines when they reopened the station, nor
are there provisions for TVM's on the platforms, which makes me think
they plan to install gates and such there (how nice that will be!). Is
this the case?
Mike
sabo...@gmail.com
I found about some comments in this thread.
Lechmere: There were 2 people (one in the booth, one outside w/ the
cash box) enforcing that people show passes or pay when boarding. Signs
where everywhere that Charlie arrives tomorrow, 4/10.
Kendall: Handwritten signs on the stairs saying "we don't have any
change/tokens/cash, go across street to outbound side" were on the
wall. PATHETIC! There was a person in the booth who appeared to have
change, and did stop some people who didn't have passes. She was also
rather rude to a few people who had stored value tickets and didn't
know they don't work everywhere.
Airport/Aquarium: All the vending machines were working and there
didn't appear to be any problems.
Courthouse: No "customer service agent" in sight. There are TWO not one
Cash/Credit vending machines installed and working. It's only the two
credit only machines that were removed, probably due to lack of use.
World Trade: No "customer service agent" in sight. There were 8 people,
including several elderly people who were quite confused trying to get
in. Apparently the MBTA has no intention of staffing these stations
since they both weren't.
Eventually I can understand it at some stations (like the waterfront
side of the Aquarium where the high gates are installed) but not right
now when people aren't used to the system yet.
JS
JimMA
AllstonPar...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I don't understand why the refund machine is necessary (probably
> stupidity in the card system software), but that's not the pamphlet's
> fault.
>
> -Apr
Because if you don't exit at QA or Braintree, you don't have to swipe
your ticket to get out. The entry gate at Braintree is going to charge
you $2.50, and unless you get off at another station with an exit fare,
the system has no way of knowing where you're travelling to.
JimMA
bus drivers obviously). Seems like a bad idea to have the transit
stations unstaffed out there, given the convention center and the
hotels that are about to open.
When WTC first opened, they just propped the wheelchair gate open and
stuck a handwritten sign on the collector's booth that said "PAY ON
BUS".
Geoffrey F. Green
"SaveBowdoin" <bowd...@mac.com> wrote:
> Anyone know when / if Science Park is scheduled to go online? They
> never replaced the token machines when they reopened the station, nor
> are there provisions for TVM's on the platforms, which makes me think
> they plan to install gates and such there (how nice that will be!). Is
> this the case?
I believe the poster on the wall said it was coming soon and set a
date before June, though I won't promise that. There are what appear
to be three vending machines boxed up and one vending machine unboxed
in the station (not hooked up, of course).
- geoff
SaveBowdoin
When I was at Courthouse Friday morning, there WAS a Customer Service
agent, and a cleaning person, standing in and next to the new booth,
talking about something. (The speaker system kept making weird noises
while I was there).
The last time I was at WTC there was also a Customer Service agent at
their little booth, and he reluctantly got up and lumbered over to help
a woman with a TVM.
Seems to me that stations with the new system should be top priority
for staffing...
Also, shame on the T for the Kendall situation. Like hell I'd go all
the way up the stairs, across the street, down stairs, up stairs, back
across, and back down if I didn't have the fare!!! They should just let
it be free until the converison if they don't want to make any effort
to provide change or tokens.
Mike
sabo...@gmail.com
JimMA wrote:
> Because if you don't exit at QA or Braintree, you don't have to swipe
> your ticket to get out. The entry gate at Braintree is going to charge
> you $2.50, and unless you get off at another station with an exit fare,
> the system has no way of knowing where you're travelling to.
That makes sense for the stations you don't need a ticket to get out.
But according to their brochure, if you are going outbound and get off
at QA or Braintree your ticket will let you off free, but you still
need to go to the vending machine to get the refund. Why doesn't it
just do the refund at the gate for those two stations is what people
are wondering.
JS
sabo...@gmail.com
10am to indicate this.
I went to the station today and listened for comments on the first
green line station upgraded.
"it's futuristic" (3 people)
"I like it" (1 person)
"it's Big Brother" (1 person)
And a woman all pissed off that she couldn't put her $1.25 in the gate.
Funny that this seems to annoy people since you couldn't do this with
the old turnstiles either.
A tech from S&B was there monitoring the equipment and the T personell
seemed quite helpful. Also the vending machines were vending the new
CharlieTickets w/ the orange colored arrows. Seemed to help, most
people were putting them in the right way on their own.
JS
Pete from Boston
Orange-colored arrows? Excellent. This is a positive step. I'm almost
more impressed that the T (or their contractor) assessed a need and
responded to it than I am with the actual task involved.
sabo...@gmail.com
Pete from Boston wrote:
> Orange-colored arrows? Excellent. This is a positive step. I'm almost
> more impressed that the T (or their contractor) assessed a need and
> responded to it than I am with the actual task involved.
Ya, and it did seem to be helping. I'm not sure why it is everyone
says it's more logical to put the charlie side up. Is it just because
it's colorful? At least I could understand that reason. I think it's
more logical the way it is. If you were to show your pass to a person
you need to show them the side with the information on it, not the
pretty picture (although I've seen plenty of collectors who are just
looking at the Charlie side and not asking to see the back).
JS
Ron Newman
"sabo...@gmail.com" <sabo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ya, and it did seem to be helping. I'm not sure why it is everyone
> says it's more logical to put the charlie side up. Is it just because
> it's colorful?
The "Charlie side", until three months ago, was the colored side of a
monthly pass, which had a big "S" (or "C" or "B" or number) on it,
making it obviously the "front" side. It also
sabo...@gmail.com
Ron Newman wrote:
> The "Charlie side", until three months ago, was the colored side of a
> monthly pass, which had a big "S" (or "C" or "B" or number) on it,
> making it obviously the "front" side. It also
> --
> NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
True, however now that all the usefull information is on the other
side, I would think most people would assume that's the side to show.
I mean I never give my ID at work to someone with the information
facing down and the company logo facing up.
JS
JimMA
sabo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> That makes sense for the stations you don't need a ticket to get out.
> But according to their brochure, if you are going outbound and get off
> at QA or Braintree your ticket will let you off free, but you still
> need to go to the vending machine to get the refund. Why doesn't it
> just do the refund at the gate for those two stations is what people
> are wondering.
>
> JS
Oh yeah... funny, I didn't get that at all reading it the first time.
It does seem really convoluted, they need a flowchart or something.
I wonder what their plan for the Newton local warrant is going to be.
Are all the stations on the D line going to get vending machines?
Pete from Boston
They really should have just made it so that the side that screams
"top" (the four-color, design-intensive side) goes on top, and the
"afterthought" side that looks photocopied on faces down. I'd suggest
that along with the colored arrow, large letters reading "THIS SIDE UP"
would be a positive step.
sabo...@gmail.com
Pete from Boston wrote:
> They really should have just made it so that the side that screams
> "top" (the four-color, design-intensive side) goes on top, and the
> "afterthought" side that looks photocopied on faces down. I'd suggest
> that along with the colored arrow, large letters reading "THIS SIDE UP"
> would be a positive step.
Trouble is no matter what you do, people don't read or pay attention
anyways. Plus there's a good portion of the population that doesn't
read or speak english that well. I think the problem is more just that
it's a new transition. Remember, eventually the CharlieTicket will be
largely replaced by the card, which doesn't matter what orientation you
wave it in. Tourists and infrequent customers will still use the
ticket, and I don't think there is any way to prevent the first
time/casual user from being a little confused.
JS