Drafts of EULAs for several lanugages available for review

Chris Hofmann

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Oct 23, 2006, 3:28:58 PM10/23/06

to l10n

We have received drafts of the EULAs back from the legal team for
several languages and they are ready for community review and feedback.

You can find them at http://people.mozilla.com/~chofmann/l10n/draft-eulas/

Let me know if you have specific comments or questions about the EULAs,
or you can file bugs to track any recommended changes.

Next steps will be to convert .doc's to HTML and get them posted. You
can hook any bugs that you file on this up to the tracking bug that I
just set up: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357710

Thanks

Chris Hofmann

Cédric Corazza

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Oct 23, 2006, 3:53:51 PM10/23/06

to

Chris Hofmann a écrit :

> Let me know if you have specific comments or questions about the EULAs,
> or you can file bugs to track any recommended changes.
> Next steps will be to convert .doc's to HTML and get them posted. You
> can hook any bugs that you file on this up to the tracking bug that I
> just set up: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357710

Hi Chris,
the French EULA looks fine except for a typo or two and for capital
letters that have no accent. The typographic rules here, is to put
accent on them.
How do you want us to proceed : providing the fixed document? What
format (OOo)? What is the deadline for that?

Thanks.
Regards

João Miguel Neves

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Oct 23, 2006, 4:03:32 PM10/23/06

to Chris Hofmann, l10n

No Portuguese. Is that correct?

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Chris Hofmann

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Oct 23, 2006, 6:56:51 PM10/23/06

to João Miguel Neves, l10n

Yes. Since this is a legal document we want to have both legal and l10n
team review before anythhing gets posted. For languages that haven't
been covered yet the localization teams could go ahead and start
translations to get things moving, and we will work to get legal review
and final approval.

Go ahead an file a bug, work out the translation, and attach OO doc with
the recommended translation. That is usually the easiest format for the
lawyers to work with. At some point the EULAs will all need to be
translated back into HTML to post on the site, but for now the legal
team has requested .doc format.

Link your bugs with specific localization team feedback into the
tracking bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357710

Thanks

chris h.

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Andras Timar

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Oct 24, 2006, 4:31:45 AM10/24/06

to

Chris Hofmann írta:

>
> We have received drafts of the EULAs back from the legal team for
> several languages and they are ready for community review and feedback.
>
> You can find them at http://people.mozilla.com/~chofmann/l10n/draft-eulas/
>
> Let me know if you have specific comments or questions about the EULAs,
> or you can file bugs to track any recommended changes.
> Next steps will be to convert .doc's to HTML and get them posted. You
> can hook any bugs that you file on this up to the tracking bug that I
> just set up: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357710
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris Hofmann

Hungarian translation is below the acceptable level. If you paid money
for this translation, then probably you should pay money to a second
person who knows Hungarian spelling rules and can understand English
legal text.

Writing "licensz" instead of "licenc" is a very common spelling mistake,
but cannot be accepted in high quality translations. Also there is a
typo: CÉLJRAIRA -> CÉLJAIRA. There are many punctuation problems.

The main problem, however, that the translator did not understand the
text or was not familiar with the concepts described there. Some
paragraphs just do not make any sense. I did not proofread the whole
thing, I do not have time at the moment.

I have been translating Mozilla products since 2002 and I try to
maintain the highest quality of the translation. Third party
translations has just not reached this level. E.g. Google Anti-Phishing
EULA uses different terminology (I discovered it too late - but it is
not my job anyway) and now this EULA... You would get very bad critics,
if you released the EULA as is.

Why don't you ask me to translate things for you, why do you trust a
random agency better? May I ask who translated the EULA and how he/she
was chosen?

Thanks,
Andras

Axel Hecht

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Oct 24, 2006, 7:27:32 AM10/24/06

to

Andras, let me answer this one from my vague sources, so that we get
that out of the way.
The EULA is a legal document, and at least here in Germany, translating
a legal document and to have that have some value, you need to
officially be a translator for the language->language combo.

Recalling how much work the Danish friend of my moms spent on that exam,
it should be terribly hard to pass. Other sources say that it might be
to easy to pass.

Bottom line is, there are cases where lawyers require an exam to be
passed by the person translating. And yes, we know that the variance in
the results produced by those is larger than we'd hope for. That's an
observation that is not specific to a particular vendor or the Mozilla
project, too.

Axel

Chris Hofmann

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Oct 24, 2006, 10:17:48 AM10/24/06

to Axel Hecht, dev-...@lists.mozilla.org

Axel is correct. We want to have at least 2 sets of eyes on these legal
documents. One from a legal perspective, and at least one from a
translation perspective. Both should have native language skills.
Starting with the legal translation will help to reduce the number of
rounds of reviews in most cases, but not all.. Working together on
this we can avoid any possible problems.

Thanks to all that will help on this.

Chris Hofmann

Andras Timar

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Oct 24, 2006, 11:51:47 AM10/24/06

to

Axel Hecht írta:

> The EULA is a legal document, and at least here in Germany, translating
> a legal document and to have that have some value, you need to
> officially be a translator for the language->language combo.

This might be true. However, the first paragraph of the translated EULA
says that it is not legally binding and it is for better understanding.
Only the English EULA is legally binding.

I - as a part of my job - translated many EULAs for proprietary software
products and the Client did not asked for any official proof of my
skills. The common process is that Client gives 20-30 languages to
BigVendor, BigVendor asks VendorA, VendorB and VendorC to take 8-10
languages, they distribute the job to in-country agencies and at the end
a random person (a student, a freelancer, or an employee of the agency)
will do the actual job. The quality varies. The Client usually have no
idea who translated their project. I can imagine that Mozilla did
something similar.

Cheers,
Andras

Jesper Kristensen

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Oct 24, 2006, 2:11:24 PM10/24/06

to

Chris Hofmann wrote:
>
> We have received drafts of the EULAs back from the legal team for
> several languages and they are ready for community review and feedback.
>
> You can find them at http://people.mozilla.com/~chofmann/l10n/draft-eulas/
>
> Let me know if you have specific comments or questions about the EULAs,
> or you can file bugs to track any recommended changes.
> Next steps will be to convert .doc's to HTML and get them posted. You
> can hook any bugs that you file on this up to the tracking bug that I
> just set up: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357710
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris Hofmann

Do you have an English version? It would be fun to compare.

I reed the beginning of the document, and put some more notes on it (in
english). You can see it here:
http://temp.jesperkristensen.dk/mozilla/Danish-Firefox-EULA-20.doc

Axel Hecht

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Oct 24, 2006, 4:18:14 PM10/24/06

to

You can see all versions, including the en-US one in svn.

Axel

Jesper Kristensen

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Oct 24, 2006, 4:37:48 PM10/24/06

to

Couldn't find it. :(

Axel Hecht

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Oct 24, 2006, 5:05:00 PM10/24/06

to

http://wiki.mozilla.org/SVN#checkout_.28co.29 and then in en-US/legal/eula/

Axel

Ville Pohjanheimo

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Oct 25, 2006, 3:48:05 PM10/25/06

to

24/10/06 17:17, Chris Hofmann kirjoitti:

>
> Axel is correct. We want to have at least 2 sets of eyes on these legal
> documents. One from a legal perspective, and at least one from a
> translation perspective. Both should have native language skills.
> Starting with the legal translation will help to reduce the number of
> rounds of reviews in most cases, but not all.. Working together on
> this we can avoid any possible problems.
>
> Thanks to all that will help on this.
>
> Chris Hofmann
>

Um. To make things perfectly clear. Would an opinion *also* on the legal
terminology from another native speaking legal person be of value? (on
top of l10n point of view)

We (the Finnish locale) asked and got a translation for the 1.5 series
EULA from a local legal firm (placed on our website). We might be able
to get them to take a look at the draft and comment.

-ville/mozilla.fi

Serena

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Oct 30, 2006, 5:01:31 AM10/30/06

to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org

The review for zh EULAs is done!

I have filed the report as Chris specified.

If any question, please let me know.

Thanks

Serena

Today's Topics:

> 1. Drafts of EULAs for several lanugages available for review
> (Chris Hofmann)
> 2. Re: Drafts of EULAs for several lanugages available for
> review (C?dric Corazza)
> 3. Re: Drafts of EULAs for several lanugages available for
> review (Jo?o Miguel Neves)
> 4. Re: Final FF release already announced (Axel Hecht)
> 5. Re: Final FF release already announced (C?dric Corazza)
> 6. Re: Final FF release already announced (J. Paul Reed)
> 7. Re: Drafts of EULAs for several lanugages available for
> review (Chris Hofmann)
> 8. Re: Final FF release already announced (urk...@gmail.com)
> 9. Re: Drafts of EULAs for several lanugages available for
> review (Andras Timar)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:28:58 -0700
>From: Chris Hofmann <chof...@mozilla.org>
>Subject: Drafts of EULAs for several lanugages available for review
>To: l10n <dev-...@lists.mozilla.org>
>Message-ID: <453D17FA...@mozilla.org>
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