PROFILING A MOIRANET MEMBER: Dr Silvestre Nazare

[Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोंया]

Thanks to the debate on Moira-Net, I ran into Dr Nazare,
based in Germany. He was born in 1937 (at Atafondem, Moira)
and has an impressive list of achievements.

Among these:

* Adviser to the Ministry of Economic Development of the
Federal Republic of Germany on a Project for an Advanced
Materials Testing Laboratory at the IIT Madras (1990-1994).

* Expert sent by the United Nations International Atomic
Energy Agency to Brasil, Argentina and Chile in the field of
Research Reactor Fuel Development.

* 1977-1980 Deputed by the Ministry of Economic Development
of the Federal Republic of Germany to the Universidade
Federal de Santa Catarina /Brasil (UFSC) as team leader to
install post graduate courses in Mech. Eng. Also Professor
Titular (1977-80) and Visiting Professor (1985-1990).

* In 1969, a PhD in Materials Science, Summa cum laude,
University of Karlsruhe/Germany. With a thesis on Development
of UAlx-_Al Plate fuels for High Flux Research Reactors (now
a standard fuel in Research and Test Reactors worldwide). He
has worked in powder metallurgy, nuclear, high tech and
superconducting ceramics and cermets.

Dr Nazare has served (in 1965-1996) the Nuclear Research
Center Karlsruhe as group leader, senior scientist. He did
his Dipl.Ing. (1960-64) at University and the Max Planck
Institute for Materials Research in Stuttgart.

Prior to that he also worked at Godrej and Boyce Co in
Bombay, did his BE (Mechanical) at the College of Engineering
in Poona, and studied at St Xavier's College in Bombay, St
Xavier's High School Moira, and the Portuguese primary school
in Mapusa!

As he puts it, his hobbies include cooking, history and
travelling ("specially to Moira every year" he said in an
email) and he is a "doting grandfather of two grandchildren".

Nice to have you on Moira-Net! --FN

Email: sil.nazare at t-online.de
--
Frederick Noronha Journalist http://fn.goa-india.org
E: fr...@bytesforall.org or frederic...@gmail.com
P: +91-832-2409490 M: +91-9970157402
Yahoo: fredericknoronha Skype: fredericknoronha GTalk: fredericknoronha
Saligao 403511 Goa India http://www.linkedin.com/in/fredericknoronha

[Jose Da Gama Pais]

Hey RICO

 

He is my maternal Uncle.

so you can see I too am linked to the nazare's on my maternal side.

 

could he have surfaced in the list of Moidekars that acheived something...???

 

Jose da Gama Pais
 

[Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसुजा]

José,

 

Could you tell us where do the Gama Pais come from? Their linkage with Moira is through maternal Nazares and Gamas? Curiously in the lists of zonnkars of Moirá I could not find any Gama Pais. There is one Pais Nazaré though! There are doctors among Pais (not Gama Pais) of Moirá from the beginning of the last century. Antonio Augusto Ladislau Santana Pais did brilliantly at Escola Medica (Panjim) in 1917. Do you know anything about him from the family tradition? Or he did not belong to the Gama Pais family? Your own dad Antonio Caetano Fidelis da Gama Pais completed medical studies at the Escola Médica in 1956. I remember him as a very kind and sympathetic doctor.

 

Teotonio R. de Souza

 

http://www.grupolusofona.pt/portal/page?_pageid=135,514781&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
Única licenciatura em História (em Portugal) com estágio pre-profissional.
Candidatos maiores de 23 anos bem-vindos.

[leroy veloso]

Dear Jose & Rico,

                                 Thank you for your posts, I have now added one more "eminent' gaunkar i.e Dr Silvestre Nazare to the list of  gaunkars  of the third vangod of the Communidade de Moira, among them Dr Jack Sequiera, Erasmo Sequiera, Dr Carmo Azavedo, John Maximian Nazare( reputedly Asia's first Queen Counsel,correct me if I am wrong),

for those in the unaware the third Vangod(clan) of the gaunkary of Moira consists of Azavedo(none presently in  Moira, residing in Olaulim, S. doMundo, Soccoro, Saligao,etc), Sousa, Veloso( they being kulachars members of the Gaunkary of Serula too)( just 1 family in Moira, the rest In Bombay, U.S.A, U.K, Karachi,Denmark,etc)Nazare, Camotim(Kamat)(none in Moira in Aldona, Podval, Poira ,etc), Siqueira(Campal, Singapore, Bombay, Karachi,etc), Lobo(none in Moira, residing at  Aldona),

I would be grateful if some one could append  more info on Moira Communidade,

 

By the way I am a Veloso from the Communidade of Moira,

 

Humbly your's,

Leroy

Jose Da Gama Pais <dagam...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey RICO

 

He is my maternal Uncle.

so you can see I too am linked to the nazare's on my maternal side.

 

could he have surfaced in the list of Moidekars that acheived something...???

 

Jose da Gama Pais
 

---

Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Jose Da Gama Pais]

Hey Leroy.

 

DEU BOREM KORUM.

 

It was really nice to see the work you have done and great that we like minded people of MOIRA spend time to see what GOOD we can do to this Village of ours MOIRA.

The Village we still live.

let us be positive like RICO said. Let us do good using the just started MOIRA-NET.

Let us take issues present which could help develop our village.

 

You have my whole hearted support and also a word of praise to Tony de Sa,

for the effort in seeing some benefits coming to this village.

 

Definitely we will acheive some Good and just to mention that on FRIDAY, a full set of Officers

from the BSNL visited Moira exchange to see what condition the equipment supplied is and were calling all over. By the way my RTI application is pending and I will await some answers.

 

Surely we shortly will acheive our target of getting broadband.

Thank you all who have supported me, and penned those emails.

If there is anybody else reading this and want to send some more emails, please spare a few minutes and write soon.

 

Deu Borem Korum.

Jose Da Gama Pais

 

[Jose Da Gama Pais]

Hey Teotonio

 

I am sure you are fully aware....yet may be you want to know or test my knowledge.

 

Well my grand father was a Ghor Zavoi. Gonzaga Pais the eldest brother of Antu Pais.

and married the daughter of caitano fidelis de gama. who name is still there on our ancestral front door.

You know what it does when such marriages take palce and here started the GAMA PAIS..

satisfied.

We are the zonkars of Sangolda. That part of when we arrived in Moira will have to be confirmed with the data collected by leroy. But I am sure we are here for at least a few generations.

The families of the Nazare and the Pais are inter-related.

The said Santana Pais is my Grandfather's brother who married the eldest sister of my Aunt

Angela ferrao who married my uncle Jose Pais, whose name may be I carried as he died young. Her name was Elisa Ferrao who finally settled in Dharwad and expired some years ago. By the way his photo still stands in our Associacao academica de Moira.

 

Well I do not know their full names but here goes my answers to what you want to know.

 

Jose Da Gama Pais

 

"Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसॠà¤OEà¤3/4" <teode...@gmail.com> wrote:

JosÃ(c),

 

Could you tell us where do the Gama Pais come from? Their linkage with Moira is through maternal Nazares and Gamas? Curiously in the lists of zonnkars of Moirá I could not find any Gama Pais. There is one Pais NazarÃ(c) though! There are doctors among Pais (not Gama Pais) of Moirá from the beginning of the last century. Antonio Augusto Ladislau Santana Pais did brilliantly at Escola Medica (Panjim) in 1917. Do you know anything about him from the family tradition? Or he did not belong to the Gama Pais family? Your own dad Antonio Caetano Fidelis da Gama Pais completed medical studies at the Escola MÃ(c)dica in 1956. I remember him as a very kind and sympathetic doctor.

 

Teotonio R. de Souza

 

Única licenciatura em História (em Portugal) com estágio pre-profissional.

Candidatos maiores de 23 anos bem-vindos.

---

Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

[Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसुजा]

Dear Leroy

 

Keep up the good work! Could you check why the registry of zonn refers at times  to the comunidade of Moirá as <>?

I have just posted a link about another Nazaré in Portugal.

Please check where he fits in your lists of vangodd or other categories. By the way what were the <> Coelhos doing in Moirá?
 

Teotonio R. de Souza
 

http://www.grupolusofona.pt/portal/page?_pageid=135,514781&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
Única licenciatura em História (em Portugal) com estágio pre-profissional.

[Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसुजा]

Wondeful job José.

The <> explains it all.

Thanks a lot. Keep giving us more details from oral / written tradition of your family from time to time. Were the Pais, Gamas, Nazaré related to the Correias, Silvas as well?

Teotonio R. de Souza

 

--
HISTÓRIA: PATRIMÓNIO HISTÓRICO-CULTURAL LUSÓFONO
http://www.grupolusofona.pt/portal/page?_pageid=135,514781&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
Única licenciatura em História (em Portugal) com estágio pre-profissional.

[Jose Da Gama Pais]

Hey Teotonio

 

I do not know of any close relation with Correia's and Silva's

But the Pais, Nazare, Gama and the Sousa from Pirazona were related.

 

Jose Ga Gama Pais

[leroy veloso]

Dear Teotonio,

                         I did not understand your query about registry of Comm De Moira.....<>?, the Coelhos in Moira are Kulachars of the class "calvecars" entitled to 3/4 th of Zonn but today getting just 1/2 zonn, in the same class are Sousas, who are also there in the class Culacharin ( 1/2 Zonn) , some of you must be knowing 'Valey' Coelho of the Soccoro Civic and Consunmer forum, he is one of them.

By the way  the Sousa's in Moira are there in the 1st,2nd,3rd and 5th Vangodds and in the above mentioned categories, they only  are not present only in the 4th Vangodd and in the class of " Escrivaos" (Kulkarnis)/Clerks.My paternal grandmother was a Sousa from the Second Vangodd , they are mostly in Atafondem, and on my paternal grandfather's side I have my cousin Karl Sousa also the Second Vangodd, anyway enough of the Sousas for now........

As to what the Coelhos were doing in Moira , I do not know, as one of your books mentions( I think Goa to Me) , the culachars in Moira used to get 1/2 zonn for assisting the gaunkars wives during delivery, the origin of the word 'calvecar' in my opinion could mean one of two things , either they came from the ward of calvim in Aldona or the term is connected to the "shellfish' or "Calva',  any clarifications welcome........

Does anyone know why the surname Sousa is so common in Bardez?( Goa too) ,

 

"Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसॠà¤OEà¤3/4" <teode...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Leroy

 

Keep up the good work! Could you check why the registry of zonn refers at times  to the comunidade of Moirá as <>?

I have just posted a link about another NazarÃ(c) in Portugal.

Please check where he fits in your lists of vangodd or other categories. By the way what were the <> Coelhos doing in Moirá?
 

Teotonio R. de Souza
 

Única licenciatura em História (em Portugal) com estágio pre-profissional.

Candidatos maiores de 23 anos bem-vindos.

---

Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.

[Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसुजा]

Dear Leroy

Sousas of the 5th vangodd are ganvkars (not kulachari)

Those who received a pay for attending as midwifes were not brahmins, but shudras. It could not be otherwise in those days.

Calvekars were probably from Calvim as suggested by you and were experts in bund maintenance. In several other villages they were brought from Carambolim.

That is all for now.

Teotonio

 

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1503/teo_publ.html

[Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसुजा]

Leroy,
>From the Inquisition records Coelhos in Moirá appears as shudras. As
recorded by Filipe Nery Xavier the shudras in Moirá enjoyed half zonn
for assisting the brahmin women as midwives. There were Fonsecas also
who were shudras.
Incidentally, Vellozo's are recorded at least since 1664. One Vellozo
was hauled up by the Inquisition in its auto-da-fé of 1664 along with
at least 25 other ganvkars belonging to practically every vangodd for
continuing hindu practices. Some of them were let go with light
punishments, but some went for 4 years of hard labour at the gunpowder
manufactory at Panelim.
Teotonio R. de Souza

On Sep 6, 9:39 am, "Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसुजा"

<teodeso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Leroy
> Sousas of the 5th vangodd are ganvkars (not kulachari)
> Those who received a pay for attending as midwifes were not brahmins, but
> shudras. It could not be otherwise in those days.
> Calvekars were probably from Calvim as suggested by you and were experts in
> bund maintenance. In several other villages they were brought from
> Carambolim.
> That is all for now.
> Teotonio
>

> On 06/09/07, leroy veloso <leroymar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dear Teotonio,
> >                          I did not understand your query about registry of
> > Comm De Moira.....<>?, the Coelhos in Moira are Kulachars of the class
> > "calvecars" entitled to 3/4 th of Zonn but today getting just 1/2 zonn, in
> > the same class are Sousas, who are also there in the class Culacharin ( 1/2
> > Zonn) , some of you must be knowing 'Valey' Coelho of the Soccoro Civic and
> > Consunmer forum, he is one of them.
> > By the way  the Sousa's in Moira are there in the 1st,2nd,3rd and 5th
> > Vangodds and in the above mentioned categories, they only  are not present
> > only in the 4th Vangodd and in the class of " Escrivaos"
> > (Kulkarnis)/Clerks.My paternal grandmother was a Sousa from the Second
> > Vangodd , they are mostly in Atafondem, and on my paternal grandfather's
> > side I have my cousin Karl Sousa also the Second Vangodd, anyway enough of
> > the Sousas for now........
> > As to what the Coelhos were doing in Moira , I do not know, as one of your
> > books mentions( I think Goa to Me) , the culachars in Moira used to get 1/2
> > zonn for assisting the gaunkars wives during delivery, the origin of the
> > word 'calvecar' in my opinion could mean one of two things , either they
> > came from the ward of calvim in Aldona or the term is connected to the
> > "shellfish' or "Calva',  any clarifications welcome........
> > Does anyone know why the surname Sousa is so common in Bardez?( Goa too) ,
>

> > *"Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो.

> > डिसॠà¤OEà¤3/4" <teodeso...@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> > Dear Leroy
>
> > Keep up the good work! Could you check why the registry of zonn refers at
> > times  to the comunidade of Moirá as <>?
> > I have just posted a link about another NazarÃ(c) in Portugal.
> > Please check where he fits in your lists of vangodd or other categories.
> > By the way what were the <> Coelhos doing in Moirá?
>
> > Teotonio R. de Souza
>

> > On 05/09/07, leroy veloso <leroymar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Dear Jose & Rico,
> > >                                  Thank you for your posts, I have now
> > > added one more "eminent' gaunkar i.e Dr Silvestre Nazare to the list of
> > > gaunkars  of the third vangod of the Communidade de Moira, among them Dr
> > > Jack Sequiera, Erasmo Sequiera, Dr Carmo Azavedo, John Maximian Nazare(
> > > reputedly Asia's first Queen Counsel,correct me if I am wrong),
> > > for those in the unaware the third Vangod(clan) of the gaunkary of Moira
> > > consists of Azavedo(none presently in  Moira, residing in Olaulim, S.
> > > doMundo, Soccoro, Saligao,etc), Sousa, Veloso( they being kulachars members
> > > of the Gaunkary of Serula too)( just 1 family in Moira, the rest In Bombay,
> > > U.S.A, U.K, Karachi,Denmark,etc)Nazare, Camotim(Kamat)(none in Moira in
> > > Aldona, Podval, Poira ,etc), Siqueira(Campal, Singapore, Bombay,
> > > Karachi,etc), Lobo(none in Moira, residing at  Aldona),
> > > I would be grateful if some one could append  more info on Moira
> > > Communidade,
>
> > > By the way I am a Veloso from the Communidade of Moira,
>
> > > Humbly your's,
> > > Leroy

> > > *Jose Da Gama Pais <dagamap...@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> > > Hey RICO
>
> > > He is my maternal Uncle.
> > > so you can see I too am linked to the nazare's on my maternal side.
>
> > > could he have surfaced in the list of Moidekars that acheived
> > > something...???
>
> > > Jose da Gama Pais
>

> > > On 9/5/07, Frederick [FN] Noronha * ÑEUROд< <fredericknoro...@gmail.com>

> > > > E: f...@bytesforall.org or fredericknoro...@gmail.com

> > > > P: +91-832-2409490 M: +91-9970157402
> > > > Yahoo: fredericknoronha Skype: fredericknoronha GTalk:
> > > > fredericknoronha
> > > > Saligao 403511 Goa Indiahttp://www.linkedin.com/in/fredericknoronha
>

> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > Pinpoint customers
> > > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48250/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ar...>who

> > > > are looking for what you sell.
>

> > > >http://www.grupolusofona.pt/portal/page?_pageid=135,514781&_dad=porta...

> > > > Única licenciatura em História (em Portugal) com estágio
> > > > pre-profissional.
> > > > Candidatos maiores de 23 anos bem-vindos.

> > > > ------------------------------

> > > > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new

> > > > Car Finder tool.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48518/*http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/;_...>
>
> --http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1503/teo_publ.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[leroy veloso]

Dear Teotonio,

                            Thank you very much about the info about the Inquisition info, the Veloso concerned probably shared my views!, any way  is there any place in Goa where I can access the Inquisition records?

 By the way I never disputed that the Sousas in the fifth vangod were not Gaunkars , I just said that they are Sousas in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd  and 5th Vangods, per se only Gaunkars constitute Vangods , not Kulachars  some Sousas who are the same........

By the way the sun is shinng weather is dry........

Leroy

Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसॠà¤OEà¤3/4 <teode...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leroy,
>From the Inquisition records Coelhos in Moirá appears as shudras. As
recorded by Filipe Nery Xavier the shudras in Moirá enjoyed half zonn

for assisting the brahmin women as midwives. There were Fonsecas also
who were shudras.
Incidentally, Vellozo's are recorded at least since 1664. One Vellozo

was hauled up by the Inquisition in its auto-da-fÃ(c) of 1664 along with

at least 25 other ganvkars belonging to practically every vangodd for
continuing hindu practices. Some of them were let go with light
punishments, but some went for 4 years of hard labour at the gunpowder
manufactory at Panelim.
Teotonio R. de Souza

On Sep 6, 9:39 am, "Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसॠà¤OEà¤3/4"

wrote:
> Dear Leroy
> Sousas of the 5th vangodd are ganvkars (not kulachari)
> Those who received a pay for attending as midwifes were not brahmins, but
> shudras. It could not be otherwise in those days.
> Calvekars were probably from Calvim as suggested by you and were experts in
> bund maintenance. In several other villages they were brought from
> Carambolim.
> That is all for now.
> Teotonio
>

> On 06/09/07, leroy veloso wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dear Teotonio,
> > I did not understand your query about registry of
> > Comm De Moira.....<>?, the Coelhos in Moira are Kulachars of the class
> > "calvecars" entitled to 3/4 th of Zonn but today getting just 1/2 zonn, in
> > the same class are Sousas, who are also there in the class Culacharin ( 1/2
> > Zonn) , some of you must be knowing 'Valey' Coelho of the Soccoro Civic and
> > Consunmer forum, he is one of them.
> > By the way the Sousa's in Moira are there in the 1st,2nd,3rd and 5th
> > Vangodds and in the above mentioned categories, they only are not present
> > only in the 4th Vangodd and in the class of " Escrivaos"
> > (Kulkarnis)/Clerks.My paternal grandmother was a Sousa from the Second
> > Vangodd , they are mostly in Atafondem, and on my paternal grandfather's
> > side I have my cousin Karl Sousa also the Second Vangodd, anyway enough of
> > the Sousas for now........
> > As to what the Coelhos were doing in Moira , I do not know, as one of your
> > books mentions( I think Goa to Me) , the culachars in Moira used to get 1/2
> > zonn for assisting the gaunkars wives during delivery, the origin of the
> > word 'calvecar' in my opinion could mean one of two things , either they
> > came from the ward of calvim in Aldona or the term is connected to the
> > "shellfish' or "Calva', any clarifications welcome........
> > Does anyone know why the surname Sousa is so common in Bardez?( Goa too) ,
>

> > *"Teotonio R. de Souza - टियà¥âEURO¹Ã Â¤Å¸Ã Â¥âEURO¹Ã Â¤Â¨Ã Â¤Â¿Ã Â¤Â¯Ã Â¥âEURO¹ रà¥âEURO¹.

> > डिसॠà¤OEà¤3/4" * wrote:
>
> > Dear Leroy
>
> > Keep up the good work! Could you check why the registry of zonn refers at

> > times to the comunidade of Moirá as <>?
> > I have just posted a link about another NazarÃ(c) in Portugal.

> > Please check where he fits in your lists of vangodd or other categories.

> > By the way what were the <> Coelhos doing in Moirá?
>
> > Teotonio R. de Souza

>
> > On 05/09/07, leroy veloso wrote:
>
> > > Dear Jose & Rico,
> > > Thank you for your posts, I have now
> > > added one more "eminent' gaunkar i.e Dr Silvestre Nazare to the list of
> > > gaunkars of the third vangod of the Communidade de Moira, among them Dr
> > > Jack Sequiera, Erasmo Sequiera, Dr Carmo Azavedo, John Maximian Nazare(
> > > reputedly Asia's first Queen Counsel,correct me if I am wrong),
> > > for those in the unaware the third Vangod(clan) of the gaunkary of Moira
> > > consists of Azavedo(none presently in Moira, residing in Olaulim, S.
> > > doMundo, Soccoro, Saligao,etc), Sousa, Veloso( they being kulachars members
> > > of the Gaunkary of Serula too)( just 1 family in Moira, the rest In Bombay,
> > > U.S.A, U.K, Karachi,Denmark,etc)Nazare, Camotim(Kamat)(none in Moira in
> > > Aldona, Podval, Poira ,etc), Siqueira(Campal, Singapore, Bombay,
> > > Karachi,etc), Lobo(none in Moira, residing at Aldona),
> > > I would be grateful if some one could append more info on Moira
> > > Communidade,
>
> > > By the way I am a Veloso from the Communidade of Moira,
>
> > > Humbly your's,
> > > Leroy

> > > *Jose Da Gama Pais * wrote:
>
> > > Hey RICO
>
> > > He is my maternal Uncle.
> > > so you can see I too am linked to the nazare's on my maternal side.
>
> > > could he have surfaced in the list of Moidekars that acheived
> > > something...???
>
> > > Jose da Gama Pais
>

> > > On 9/5/07, Frederick [FN] Noronha * Ã'EUROà ´<

> > > > who
> > > > are looking for what you sell.
>
> > > >http://www.grupolusofona.pt/portal/page?_pageid=135,514781&_dad=porta...

> > > > Única licenciatura em História (em Portugal) com estágio

> > > > pre-profissional.
> > > > Candidatos maiores de 23 anos bem-vindos.
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new
> > > > Car Finder tool.
>

> --http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1503/teo_publ.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

---

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[Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसुजा]

Leroy
I was amused by your last sentence. Are you still keeping the powder
dry?! It was meant to be only 4 years since 1664!
Theo

On Sep 10, 8:52 am, leroy veloso <leroymar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Teotonio,
>                               Thank you very much about the info about the Inquisition info, the Veloso concerned probably shared my views!, any way  is there any place in Goa where I can access the Inquisition records?
>    By the way I never disputed that the Sousas in the fifth vangod were not Gaunkars , I just said that they are Sousas in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd  and 5th Vangods, per se only Gaunkars constitute Vangods , not Kulachars  some Sousas who are the same........
>   By the way the sun is shinng weather is dry........
>   Leroy
>

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>
> > - Show quoted text -
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[leroy veloso]

Dear Teotonio,

                          You mentioned  in one of your earlier post that there are Kulachars having the name Fonseca in the Comm. de Moira, I was going through the Matriculas of the Comm. de Moira of the year 1939, saw your father's Luis Caetano and grandfather's name Joaquim Rosario  de Sousa' s name recorded, also Dr Jack Siqueira's name ( it is recorded as Joao Hugo Eduardo Siquiera) also his brother's name is there too( Francisco Cecil Jorge or Frank),they  were 24 and 28 years respectively in 1939.

In the list of kulachar's Fonseca was not present, which year book do i have to refer to see mention of them?

By the way you forgot to answer my query on the Inquisition records,

Regards,

leroy

Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसॠà¤OEà¤3/4 <teode...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leroy
I was amused by your last sentence. Are you still keeping the powder
dry?! It was meant to be only 4 years since 1664!
Theo

On Sep 10, 8:52 am, leroy veloso wrote:
> Dear Teotonio,
> Thank you very much about the info about the Inquisition info, the Veloso concerned probably shared my views!, any way is there any place in Goa where I can access the Inquisition records?
> By the way I never disputed that the Sousas in the fifth vangod were not Gaunkars , I just said that they are Sousas in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th Vangods, per se only Gaunkars constitute Vangods , not Kulachars some Sousas who are the same........
> By the way the sun is shinng weather is dry........
> Leroy
>

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[Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसुजा]

Leroy

I mixed up Fernandes with Fonsecas as Kulachari. They were dhobis of the village according to the Inquisition records. As I told you personally in Goa these records are at the National Archives of Portugal in Lisbon (Torre do Tombo).

There is also a reference to ganvkar Ribeiro in Moirá. Are there any Ribeiros today?

Theo 

 

[leroy veloso]

Dear Teotonio,

                              You are right there are Fernandes as Kulachars in Moira, there were quite a number but none live in Moira , their residence were mostly in Assnora/Calangute/Candolim/S'Cruz/Mapuca/Siolim/S. Inez/Arambol and Sawantwadi. Today there is only one registered in the Comm.

They were all Kulachars (meios joneiros) which obviously means 1/2 Zonn, others are Rodrigues, Noronhas( there are gaunkars Noronha in the fourth Vangodd too, none in Moira today, my great-great-great grandmorther Ana Quiteria Noronha was from this clan they come from Sataporia) and Sousas , then Kulacharin class 'Calvecar' there are Coelhos and Sousas,

Any idea what did the rest of the kulachars do in the community, surname specific.........

As for Ribeiros there are none in the Comm. , as far as I am aware they come from Serula Comm, mainly from the ward of Porvorim in Soccoro village,their full surname is Ribeiro de Santana among them comprise Super Cop Julio Ribeiro and  writerVictor Rangel Ribeiro and the late Bishop Altinus ? Ribeiro de Santana( Mozambique?)(the family have donated many items to the Christian Art Museum),

Regards,

Leroy

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[Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसुजा]

Leroy
There were / are Fonsecas in Atafondem. Did I ever mention they were
Kulachari? In most villages there were families with namasy grants for
serving the village as carpenters, boatmen (where there were river
crossing, as was the case of Kanturly in Moirá), bund and manos-
keepers, village terluk (watchmen of fields / banana plantations),
barber / surgeon (for bleeding or putting leeches), ironsmith, sandal-
makers / repairers (mahar), trumpet-blowers / village criers
(maranchem band and parpoti) etc. We will have to pick their Christian
surnames in available records, or from oral tradition. Some mahars
seem to be Fernandes in Moirá. I have come across some Fernandes
shudra women of Moirá with the designation of "regateiras" in the
Inquisition records. Could be fisherwomen?
This kind of research is a very slow process and one needs to keep
recording and tallying every bit of dispersed information.
I would suggest that when you find time sit with the reports of the
"pastoral visits" in patriarch's archives. There are 19 vols covering
from 1727 till 1927. You could check only what concerns Moira. They
cover entire Goa and even the Ghat / Kanara mission (Sadashivgad,
Sunkery, Chandovar, Honawar, Monky, Sirsi, Kumta, Yellapur, Anjediva,
Binquem, Ankola, Halyal, etc that belonged to the jurisdiction of Goa
Archdiocese.

Teotonio

[leroy veloso]

Dear Teotonio,

                            Thanks for the advice, you are right there are Fonsecas in Atafondem but to the best of my knowledge they are not members of the Comm. de Moira as for Fernandes there are plenty in Moira but as far as the Comm de Moira is concerned there are none residing in moira today, in fact every year in May many kulachars come from places like Sawantwadi to write their names and collect their Zon if any, that too the half-zon they are entitled to, they come that too by bus and then walk it out to the Chaudhi( Comm office) in the hot sun, it is very touching to see how they put in the effort to keep in touch with their roots, whereas in Moira , many gaunkars residing in moira do not even bother to attend meetings,and come only to apply for plots ( which is their birthright!) and of course Zon, including 'prominent activists ', crossing my fingers about the sunday meeting attendance..........

Regards,

leroy

Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसॠà¤OEà¤3/4 <teode...@gmail.com> wrote:

Teotonio R. de Souza - टियोटोनियो रो. डिसॠà¤OEà¤3/4 <teode...@gmail.com> wrote:

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