FAQ Part 4
David McLoughlin
PART FOUR
FAQ for MTU-T
This FAQ is posted in five parts on approximately the first and the
fifteenth of each month to misc.transport.urban-transit. This FAQ is
compiled and maintained by David McLoughlin >dav...@iprolink.co.nz <
Date of compilation: June 1 1998
CONTENTS:
In Part One:
0.0 : Introduction
1.0 : Charter of the group.
2.0 : Transit-L mailing list
3.0 : History of mtu-t
4.0 : Jargon On mtu-t
4.1: Differing United States and United Kingdom terms explained
4.2: General Acronyms often mentioned in mtu-t
4.3: Frequently mentioned Transport/Transit systems and operators
In Part Two
4.4: What is light/heavy/commuter rail etc?
5.0 : World Urban Rail, Streetcar (tramways) and Electric Trolleybus
Cities
5.1: How many cities in North America have trolleybuses ?
5.2: Which North American Cities Have Light Rail/ Streetcars?
5.2.1: Streetcar tunnels and why Toronto kept its streetcars.
5.3: Which other cities around the world have trolleybuses?
In Part Three:
5.4: Which other cities around the world have streetcars/tramways?
5.5: Which cities have subways/underground railways/metros?
5.5.1 : World’s oldest subway?
5.5.2: What is the Vancouver Skytrain?
6.0: Was There a Conspiracy to Close Down US Streetcar systems?
In Part Four:
7.0: Which are the world’s smallest subways?
8.0: Was a subway built in Cincinnati (Ohio) but never used?
9.0: What transit systems use time-based ticket systems?
10.0: Which world airports have direct rail service to downtown?
10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
11.0: Which city has the largest number of different bus types?
12.0: Which transit systems have routes which cross into another
country?
13.0 : Which transit systems have genuine 24-hour services?
In Part Five:
14.0: LOOT and all that!
14.1: Who is this Big Don?
15.0: Who is this George Conklin?
16.0: Questions seeking answers: Can You Help?
16.1 : US subway opening dates
17.0: Continuing Acknowledgements
****************
***************
7.0: Which are the world’s smallest subways?
This was the subject of an interesting thread in mtut-t in March 1998. It
was started by Christopher Rivituso ]rivi...@imedia.ru[ of Moscow who
wrote:
> The metro in Yekaterinburg, a day east of Moscow is only about 5 kilometers [long], > and has all of three stations.
James D Umbach ]apo...@mail.mother.com [ followed that with comments
about a little-known subway in Washington DC:
The Capitol Subway in Washington D.C. has only four(?) stations and runs
less than 1/2 mile. It was designed to whisk Congressmen/Senators
quickly from their offices to the chambers, but it is for public use,
too.
Which prompted DC resident David Allen White ]da...@loc.gov[ to add:
It doesn't go to the House Office Buildings, only the Senate Office
Buildings (but anyone can ride it). There are two routes from the
Capitol. One route connects the Capitol with the Russell Building, and
this route has a driver. The other route connects the Capitol with the
Dirksen and Hart Buildings, and this one is automated (no operator). Why
do the Senate office buildings get a subway and the House buildings
don't? Because the Senate is the upper house, like the House of Lords in
the UK, and it's one of their privileges. That's just my guess.
Bob at Access Systems > acce...@smart.net < took issue with David White
and added:
I was in Washington today, and had to go to the Capitol, so I made a
point to check it out:
*Hart/Dirksen to Capitol new automated LIM powered system.
(broken today).
*other Senate office Blue older manual subway
* Cannon/Longworth house pedestrian walkway
* Rayburn House office White older manual subway
So YES there is a House office subway. if you are in the lower level of
the Capitol, at the south entrance take the East side corridor then
elevator to lower level, this gets you to the walkway. at the South
Entrance take the West side corridor then elevator to lower level, this
gets you to the Rayburn house subway.
Maybe the fact that the entrances are on different sides of the Capitol
is what confuses the issue.
Ron Newman >rne...@thecia.net< added:
Depends, what do you call a "subway"? How long is the Newark City
Subway? How long is the subway part of the Pittsburgh streetcar system?
Even Boston's Green Line subway, from the Haymarket portal to the three
portals west of Kenmore, is probably at most 3 miles long.
K.C. Jackson >kc...@ix.netcom.com< replied:
Newark's City Subway is approximately 4 1/2 miles with 11 stops/stations.
It is only fully underground east of Warren Street just outside
downtown, the rest of the line is in the old Morris Canal bed.
Ron Newman returned with:
The smallest self-contained subway that I know of (that doesn't continue
as surface cars, like Boston's) would have to be the Carmelit, in Haifa,
Israel. Its purpose is to take people up a steep hill, but it is not a
conventional funicular, since it has several intermediate stops.
************************
************************
8.0: Was a subway built in Cincinnati (Ohio) but never used?
Subject:
Re: Cincinnati (was: Re: Any New Rail Systems in US?)
Date:
Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:47:22 -0500 (EST)
From:
David Allen White <da...@loc.gov>
Newsgroups:
misc.transport.urban-transit
>David Connor wrote:
>> This reminded me of the legendary (mythical?) Cincinnati subway. From what I >>understand of the story, about a century ago a subway was
completed here. It
>> wasn't until building was completed that it was realised that the curves, grades and >> clearances were too restricted for any trains to
fit, and so the line was abandoned >>unused.
>> I've never really believed this story, but I guess there might be a
>> grain of truth in it somewhere. Does anyone have any information? If
>> anything was actually built, what remains? Could modern LRVs fit on
>> such a line, even if it was unsuitable for heavy rail vehicles <gryn>?
The question about the Cincinnati subway comes up every 3 to 6 months,
and the answer is, yes, there was a subway built in Cincinnati between
1920 and 1927. It began at Fountain Square, ran north under Walnut, west
under Canal (now Central Parkway) and northwest under the right of way of
the Ohio and Erie Canal (now Central Parkway) to Brighton, then it came
to the surface and ran through the Mill Creek Valley and across the north
side of town parallel to the right of way of what was then called the
Baltimore and Ohio Railroad as far as Oakley. The below-ground stations
were Fountain Square (5th & Walnut), Canal (Central Parkway & Race),
Liberty, Brighton, Marshall, Ludlow, and Clifton. The above-ground
stations were
St. Bernard, Paddock, Montgomery, Forest, and Oakley.
The tunnel was dug and the below-ground stations were built. The
above-ground right of way was graded, but the stations were not built.
No tracks were ever laid. The tunnel portion is still in existence,
though in what state I have no idea. I believe parts of it were used as
shelters during the Cold War. The above-ground right of way was
obliterated by the Mill Creek and Norwood Lateral Expressways, which
eventually used the same route.
The subway was originally conceived in 1884, but not surveyed until 1914.
Construction halted during the Depression, but was still considered a
live project until about 1948, though nothing had been done for 20 years.
I think by 1950 it was considered a lost cause, but I wouldn't swear
that there aren't plans somewhere to reconsider it.
The information comes from a book called Cincinnati Streetcars, by
Richard Wagner and Roy Wright. It has photographs of various stages of
construction.
********************
********************
9.0: Which transit systems use time-based ticket systems (as opposed to
pay-per-ride)?
This question was asked in mtu-t in March 1998 by Jon Bell >
jtb...@presby.edu< :
> Has any transit system ever tried, or thought of using, a purely
> time-based ticket system? Tickets would be sold at different price
> levels depending on the length of time they are valid, with unlimited
> transfers between vehicles during the specified time span.
It produced a number of substantial replies:
From Martin Bienwald > obe...@fim.informatik.uni-mannheim.de <
Quite some Czech and Polish systems have introduced time-based tickets
over the last few years. For example, the transit company of Ostrava
(Czech Republic) offers tickets for 15 or 45 minutes as well as for 24
hours, 7 and 14 days. All of those can be bought at automatic ticket
machines (as well as kiosks and suchlike) and have to be validated when
first boarding a transit vehicle. 15- and 45-minute-tickets can also be
bought from the driver, but are then somewhat more expensive.
--
From: David Allen White >da...@loc.gov<
I was in Florence, Venice, and Rome in 1995 and they all used a
time-based system. In Rome I bought three one-day tickets at the same
time and validated them on three successive days (one- and two-hour
tickets were also available); in Venice I bought a 24-hour ticket; and in
Florence I bought the 7-day "Carta Arancia" (orange card). Incidentally,
I was never checked for proof of payment anywhere in Italy, though two
years earlier I was checked twice in Frankfurt, Germany.
----
From: Christopher Rivituso > rivi...@imedia.ru <
Budapest has a time-based ticket system (30 minutes).
---
From David McLoughlin >dav...@iprolink.co.nz<
Melbourne, Australia, has just such a system. Tickets are two-hour; all
day; weekly; monthly; yearly.
Within the time period of the ticket, you have unlimited travel on an
tram (streetcar), electric commuter train or bus, anywhere in Melbourne
and regardless of who the operator of the service is.
There are three zones: Zone 1 which is up to 15km or so from the CBD and
encompassed most of the tramway system (though not all, as two of the
tram lines are 21kms long yes 21 kms); Zone 2 which goes another maybe
5km out, then zone three which is the far reaches of suburbia.
Thus you buy a ticket for time and for zone: ie, Zone 1, Zone 1&2,
1&2&3, also for zone 2 or 3 by themselves, or zones 2&3.
Most popular tickets are all-day tickets.
This was actually a very simple system but is in the process of being
complicated by the introduction of a $300 million ticket machine and
validator system where you have to validate your ticket in a machine
every time you board a tram, train or bus. This is causing chaos in
Melbourne at present.
------
And From Michael Knorr > mlk...@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de <
As Wolfgang Auer and others already wrote, there are many systems like
this in Central Europe, you could check my homepage about fares in
Germany (unfortunately the pages are in German):
http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/user/mlknorr/tiv0.htm
Here is a list of cities in Germany using time-based ticket systems, in
most case you can do as many rides as you like within the time span:
Berlin: 120 min, day
Brandenburg: 60 min, 24 hours
Braunschweig: 90 min, day
Chemnitz: 10 min, 60 min, 24 hours
Dresden: 60 min, 24 hours
Erfurt: 60 min
Halle: 10 min, 60 min, 24 hours
Wolfsburg: 60 min, 120 min, 24 hours
To which Pete Humble <pe...@dircon.co.uk> adds:
All major Swiss Urban Transit systems use time based tickets. Some also
have a short distance fare (usually about three stops) which is cheaper,
but otherwise have a flat, time-based fare.
*****************
*****************
10.0: Which world airports have direct rail service to downtown?
This question was asked as a specific question for the FAQ in March 1998
by Peter Montgomery <pmon...@MATH.ORST.EDU>.
Colin Leech > crl...@freenet.carleton.ca < replied :
The worldwide list is fairly long, because Europe has realized how
beneficial multimodalism is, but the North American list is woefully
short and thus can easily be included in a FAQ. :-( We should also
include a brief description of who and how. I'll start the list (I've
probably missed one or two that people can fill in).
RAPID TRANSIT directly to the airport, in North America: [note the use of
the term "rapid transit" rather than "rail" :-)] :
Washington DC - National Airport [oops, are they calling this "Ronald
Reagan Airport" now?] - WMATA Metro Blue and Yellow Lines
Philadelphia PA - SEPTA Regional Rail Line R1 [or R7? please correct]
Baltimore-Washington Airport MD - Baltimore (Maryland MTA) light rail
rail
Atlanta GA - Hartsfield Airport (?) MARTA subway south line
Cleveland OH - GCTA subway line
Chicago IL - O'Hare Airport - CTA <mumble> line - Midway Airport - CTA
Orange (?) Line.
Ottawa Ont. - Macdonald-Cartier Int'l. Airport - OC Transpo Transitway
(busway) route 96
St Louis, MO - Metrolink
Note that we can't count places like Boston or LA (or MARC to BWI?)
because the rapid transit line doesn't go right to the airport - a
shuttle bus is required to complete the connection, as is the case with
most North American airports.
> To which David McLoughlin > dav...@iprolink.co.nz added:
Airports with trains to city CBDs:
Brussels (Belgium) airport EMU rail link opened May 1 1998
Gatwick (London, UK)
Heathrow (London, UK)
Kloten (Zurich, Switzerland)
Kingsford Smith (Sydney, Australia) [underground railway under
construction]
Chek Lap Kok (Hong Kong) [airport and MTR railway under construction,
scheduled opening July 6 1998]
> To which Pete Humble <pe...@dircon.co.uk> added:
Geneva (Switzerland)
Barcelona (Spain)
Madrid (Spain)
Orly (Paris, France)
Charles de Gaulle (Paris, France)
Manchester (UK)
Stanstead (London, UK)
Rome (Italy)
Frankfurt (Germany)
Schiphol (Amsterdam, Netherlands)
And Michael Knorr > mlk...@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de < added:
As Frankfurt was the only German airport listed, I post a list of the
more important airports and how they are connected to the CBD.
Berlin Tegel Bus
Berlin Schönefeld Suburban Rail (S-Bahn)
Berlin Tempelhof Subway
Hamburg Bus
Bremen Tramway (Streetcar)
Hannover Bus, Suburban Rail under construction
Düsseldorf Suburban Rail (S-Bahn, also direct Rail to Ruhr
area)
Köln/Bonn Bus, Railway under construction
Frankfurt Suburban Rail and ICE-trains to several German
cities
Stuttgart Suburban Rail (S-Bahn)
Nürnberg Bus, Subway under construction
München Suburban Rail (S-Bahn)
10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
Mike Ward > mw...@crl.remove-this-part.com < asks: Which cities have
public transit *bus* service to their airports?
This has come up once or twice in the past year or so. The last time, it
came out of a discussion about Sacramento's recently inaugurated airport
bus service (which oddly enough is not provided by the city's main
transit provider...rather, it's provided by neighboring Yolobus out of
Yolo County).
The list, as I envision it, would be only of regularly scheduled service
provided by a regular public transit operator - excluding the
SuperShuttles/Airporters/etc. dedicated buses.
Others I am aware of, and including Sacramento - -
CALIFORNIA
Monterey/Salinas - MST route 21 (not sure of the number)
Oakland - AC Transit route 58, "AIR-BART" shuttle from BART trains
Sacramento - Yolobus route 42
San Francisco - SamTrans route 3X, 7B, 7F (7F carries no luggage)
San Jose - VTA route 10, VTA shuttle from Light Rail
NEVADA
Reno - Citifare route 24 (not sure of the number)
Added by Alan Wetmore:
NEW MEXICO
Albuquerque -
TEXAS
El Paso --- Stops Running Early in the Evening
Added by David McLoughlin
NEW ZEALAND
Christchurch
SWITZERLAND:
Genève (Geneva) (the No 10 trolleybus route)
Added by Ron Newman:
Sat, 16 May 1998
In Boston, MBTA buses #448, #449, and #459 stop at Logan Airport's
Terminal "C". These are weekday rush-hour only buses that run from
Downtown Crossing in Boston to Salem or Marblehead, via the Ted Williams
Tunnel. They stop at the airport only because they have to pass through
it anyway, so they may as well stop.
Some time later this year, the MBTA plans to extend bus #CT3 to
Logan Airport. This bus operates weekdays only, with the last
run around 8 pm.
The Blue Line subway will always be the principal local transit service
to Logan Airport.
*******************
*******************
11.0: Which city has the largest number of different bus types?
This question was asked in mtut on April 19 1998 by Erik >
eri...@aol.com< who went on to say:
I nominate Seattle, where one can see (within the *City* (limits) of
Seattle) the following on a workday at the rush periods:
60 foot King County Metro M-A-N Diesel Articulateds
60 foot King County Metro M-A-N Electric Articulateds
40 foot King County Metro Diesel Gilligs
35 foot King County Metro Diesel Gilligs
40 foot King County Metro Electric AM Generals (are they Flyers?)
60 foot King County Metro Duo-mode Breda Artics (Tunnel Buses)
40 foot King County Metro Diesel M-A-N (Flat Tops)
40 foot King County Metro Diesel New Flyers (a few are not in BC)
35 foot King County Metro Diesel New Flyers (still have these too!)
20? foot King County Metro Access Gasoline Paratransit Vans
25? foot King County Metro Gasoline Transit (Union driven) Vans
(and soon to arrive 60 foot KCM Diesel New Flyer Articulateds)
40 foot Pierce Transit Natural Gas Orions (Type VI?)
(and the ocassional 40 foot ex-KCM Diesel New Flyer)
(and a few older Natural Gas Orions with rounder fronts)
40 foot Community Transit Diesel RTS
40 foot CT Diesel New Flyer (High Floors, like KC Metro's)
40 foot CT Diesel New Flyer Low Floors (seen in the U District)
60 foot CT Diesel Neoplan Articulateds
60 foot CT Diesel Ikarus Articulateds
60 foot CT Diesel NABI Articulateds (yes, NABI=Ikarus, but...)
60 foot CT Diesel New Flyer Articulateds
(some of these CT buses may operate on Natural Gas, if so, we have even
more
types)
Can anyone top this??
*
Bob at Access Systems >acce...@smart.net< responded:
I don't have a detailed list, but certainly Washington DC has more than
any metro area I have ever seen
Except for the Breda dualmodes, I think they have at least one of every
make and model bus ever built. If not different models they probably
have more different builders represented.
And if you include the various suburban operators add in all sorts of mid
sized buses too. (heck I think DC is still operating some older Twin
Coaches in shuttle service, if not they just stopped because I saw one
fairly recently)
*
Hank Eisenstein <ni...@quuxuum.org> added:
DC is still running Flxibles (old ones) and GM new-looks. Saw them both
last week on the Capitol Mall.
*******************
*********************
12.0: Which transit systems have routes which cross into another
country?
In April 1998, Charles Norrie (Cha...@geodeon.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> By the way, the Euskotren line east from Bilbao crosses the border into
> France at Hendaye. Anyone want to start a thread on urban tranist
> systems with are in more than one country?
To which Colin Leech replied:
I'll start it off with Windsor (Ontario, Canada) Transit's tunnel bus
into Detroit (Michigan, USA).
Wolfgang Auer > wa...@qspr03.tuwien.ac.at< added:
Basel tram route 10 still runs into France near Leymen!
Salzburg bus route R is a very traditional international _municipal_ bus
route (since the early 1950s, always usable with normal Salzburg tickets)
from a Salzburg suburb to Freilassing in Bavaria. Since this bus route
only is a feeder to trolleybus route 29, and the open borders (Schengen!)
eventually are reality there, we maybe could even see an international
trolleybus route once... By the way, until WW II, the Lokalbahn ("Rote
Elektrische" = "Red Electrical") also operated across the border.
Even if it only peripherily has to do with urban transit: The VOR (Wien
tariff joint area) tariff has applied for a year or two across the
Hungarian border at Sopron. What a great thing after decades of the cruel
Iron Curtain! To come back to urban transit in this regard: Görlitz has
operated international bus route P into Poland (Zgorzelec).
One of the most interesting and uneasy stories in regard to international
urban transit is Berlin's history between 1961 and 1989.
Alistair Bell <alis...@ichthya.demon.co.uk> added :
ERIKG3 wrote in message:
>There is a regional train in Ticino, Switzerland that runs to Italy, but my
>memory of this is fuzzy.
I think this is the line from Lugano (or is it Locarno?) to Domodossola
known if I remember rightly as the "Thousand Lakes Line". It's a
fascinating little line using EMUs that look more like trams than
ordinary trains, passing through some magnificent scenery, and running
underground at each end. When I crossed from Switzerland to Italy on it,
we stopped briefly at the border just outside a station, and then
continued as normal. No sign of any border guards or the like.
However, crossing back into Switzerland on a mainline train north from
Domodossola, there was quite a thorough inspection.
The Rhatische Bahn in south-east Switzerland runs into Italy at Tirano,
too. However, the customs post is actually at Tirano RhB station (which
is odd given that the train does stop once or twice before crossing the
border: maybe there are customs posts at all the other RhB stations in
Italy. If so, it's an interesting example of making a journey wholly
within one country where you have to cross customs posts to do it)
*******
13.0 : Which transit systems have genuine 24-hour services?
This question appeared in mtu-t in May 1998. Some of the answers given
include:
From Mike Gallant (gall...@mailexcite.com) :
24-hour service:
CAT- Las Vegas, NV
SEPTA- Philadelphia, PA
NYCTransit- New York City, NY
Green Bus Lines- New York City, NY
Queens Transit- New York City, NY
Triboro Coach- New York City, NY
LI Bus- Nassau County, NY (one route- N6)
Citifare- Reno, NV
MUNI- San Francisco, CA
LACMTA- Los Angeles, CA
CTA- Chicago, IL
METRO- Seattle, WA
MTA- Baltimore, MD
Foothill Transit- Los Angeles suburbs (east)
RTD- Denver, CO (one route- #15)
RTA- New Orleans, LA
Metro- Houston, TX (one route- #83)
PATCO- New Jersey
PATH- New Jersey
Almost 24-hour service:
WMATA- Washington DC
MCTS- Milwaukee, WI
NJTransit- New Jersey
LIRR- Long Island, NY
MetroNorth- Westchester County, NY
> Metro- Indianapolis, IN Jamaica Bus Lines- New York City, NY
From Colin Leech:
Other 24-hour systems:
TTC - Toronto, Ont.
STCUM - Montreal, Que.
Almost 24-hour service:
OC Transpo - Ottawa, Ont.
End Of Part Four
Continued in Part Five
Herc Wad
From the FAQ:
>10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
>CALIFORNIA
>Monterey/Salinas - MST route 21 (not sure of the number)
>Oakland - AC Transit route 58, "AIR-BART" shuttle from BART trains
>Sacramento - Yolobus route 42
>San Francisco - SamTrans route 3X, 7B, 7F (7F carries no luggage)
>San Jose - VTA route 10, VTA shuttle from Light Rail
Los Angeles - LACMTA 42, 111, 117, 120, 220, 225, 232, 439, 561, 311, 315, 625;
SMMBL 3, Culver CityBus 6, Torrance Transit 8; LAX Shuttle Line C
San Diego - MTS 992
John Wayne (Orange County) - OCTA 39, 61, 71, 306; Service to airport available
weekdays only
Ontario-Omnitrans 60/61, 71; Inland Empire Connection 110
>NEVADA
>Reno - Citifare route 24 (not sure of the number)
Las Vegas-CAT 108, 109
OREGON
Portland - TriMet 12-Sandy Bl.
OHIO
Columbus - COTA 92
>*******************
>*******************
>11.0: Which city has the largest number of different bus types?
I have heard that CAT in Las Vegas operates several different types of buses. I
am visiting there next week and may tell what I have seen them use.
SoCalTIP, Southern California's Comprehensive Transportation Information Page:
<http://socaltip.lerctr.org>
Herc Wad
From the FAQ:
>10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
>CALIFORNIA
>Monterey/Salinas - MST route 21 (not sure of the number)
>Oakland - AC Transit route 58, "AIR-BART" shuttle from BART trains
>Sacramento - Yolobus route 42
>San Francisco - SamTrans route 3X, 7B, 7F (7F carries no luggage)
>San Jose - VTA route 10, VTA shuttle from Light Rail
Whoops, forgot one.
Burbank - Metrolink Ventura County Line; Amtrak; MTA 94, 152, 163, 165, 394
Burbank could also fall under airports with rail transit access.
Ray Mullins
In article <199806010609...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
Herc Wad <her...@aol.com> wrote:
>From the FAQ:
>
>>10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
>
>>Monterey/Salinas - MST route 21 (not sure of the number)
According to www.mst.org, airport service is provided by:
11 - Seaside/Monterey - no service on weekends and holidays.
21 - Monterey/Salinas - no service Sundays & holidays.
To my eyeball, the 8 runs within a long walking distance, but it also
does not operate on weekends and holidays.
>>NEVADA
>>Reno - Citifare route 24 (not sure of the number)
It is the 24 - Airport/Hilton.
>Las Vegas-CAT 108, 109
109 - Operates 24 hours.
Later,
Ray
--
M. Ray Mullins (http://www.lerctr.org/~mrm/) from Roseville, California
(which has better transit service than Arlington TX, and 1/5 the population)
TIPs: http://socaltip.lerctr.org, norcaltip.lerctr.org, cencaltip.lerctr.org
mrm -a- lerami.lerctr.org-Who's been spamming me? pro...@health.com
Ron Newman
In article <199806010609...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
her...@aol.com (Herc Wad) wrote:
> 10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
> OHIO
> Columbus - COTA 92
Does this run from the airport to downtown Columbus? How frequently
does it run, and what are its hours of operation? Is it a non-stop
express?
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Ron Newman
> >10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
> Los Angeles - LACMTA 42, 111, 117, 120, 220, 225, 232, 439, 561, 311, 315,
> 625; SMMBL 3, Culver CityBus 6, Torrance Transit 8; LAX Shuttle Line C
I thought that the LACMTA and SMMBL buses (and presumably the Culver City
and Torrance buses) went only to the off-site airport bus terminal, and
you had to transfer there to the LAX shuttle bus.
Herc Wad
Ron Newman wrote:
>I thought that the LACMTA and SMMBL buses (and presumably the Culver City
>and Torrance buses) went only to the off-site airport bus terminal, and
>you had to transfer there to the LAX shuttle bus.
That is true. There is a terminal at LAX where all the buses stop. You'd have
to take an LAX shuttle bus to the airport terminals to actually get to the
airport. (Runs every 10 minutes, free, 24 hours a day).
It is actually better that transit buses stop at that outside terminal. This
way, during peak travel times, buses won't be behind schedule for the rest of
their routes. Also, the terminals at LAX are designed with two decks, for
arrivals and departures. All buses would have to make two passes around the
loop.
Ken Eikert
David McLoughlin wrote:
>
> 10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
LOUISIANA
New Orleans -- Jefferson Transit route E-2.
TEXAS
Houston - Bush Intercontinental Airport -- METRO route 102
(No Sunday service).
Houston - Hobby Airport -- METRO routes 41, 50, 73, 88, and
143.
Access Systems
In misc.transport.urban-transit Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> wrote:
> In article <199806010609...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
> her...@aol.com (Herc Wad) wrote:
> > 10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
Baltimore MD which has Light Rail service to BWI airport, also has city
bus service via the #17 line to the airport. service has been cut back
since the light rail to the airport opened but it does serve a lot of the
commercial parks in the area also so it still runs 6 days a week (no
sunday) from 7 AM to 11+PM on about 45 minute headways.
Bob
> > OHIO
> > Columbus - COTA 92
> Does this run from the airport to downtown Columbus? How frequently
> does it run, and what are its hours of operation? Is it a non-stop
> express?
> --
David A. Villa
> From the FAQ:
>
>10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
What? Is it possible that there could be airports (in cities with public
transportation) that don't have any service to them? Austin's CapMetro
makes such a big deal out of direct access to the airport, I thought it
was commonplace. It takes the #20-Manor Rd a minimum of 4 1/2 minutes --
and much longer when traffic is backed up -- to make a net zero
displacement, and this for only an occasional boarding... bugs the
freakin' heck out of me!
-David
David Barts
David McLoughlin wrote:
> 10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
WASHINGTON
Seattle:
174/184: Local service between southern suburbs and Downtown.
Makes a stop at Sea-Tac and continues downtown via surface streets.
Runs 24/7 (though there are _long_ headways in the wee hours of the
morning).
194: Express service between southern suburbs and Downtown. Travels
entirely on freeway, busway, or bus tunnel between Sea-Tac and
downtown. Runs 16 hours per day on weekdays, 12 on weekends and
holidays.
340: Service between Eastside suburbs and Sea-Tac. Runs 16 hours
per day on weekdays, 13 on weekends/holidays.
--
David W. Barts (n5...@ricochet.net) / http://www.scn.org/~davidb
"Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and
demand; it is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws
of
justice and mercy." -- Wendell Berry
James D. Umbach
The cat walked across her...@aol.com (Herc Wad)'s keyboard and wrote:
>It is actually better that transit buses stop at that outside terminal. This
>way, during peak travel times, buses won't be behind schedule for the rest of
>their routes.
Agreed.
>Also, the terminals at LAX are designed with two decks, for
>arrivals and departures. All buses would have to make two passes around the
>loop.
Not necessarily. Timetables could just specify "Loops around arrivals
level" for example. Anyone who wanted to depart could just take a
quick escalator ride.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| James D. Umbach | apostle (at) mother.com |
| Citrus Heights, California | my web site: http://www.mother.com/~apostle |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a picture is worth 1,000 words, how many words is a .GIF worth? Or a .JPG?
Herc Wad
James Umbach wrote:
>Not necessarily. Timetables could just specify "Loops around arrivals
>level" for example. Anyone who wanted to depart could just take a
>quick escalator ride.
That still will not make up for any time lost during heavy travel times. The
bus lines that go to LAX are well ridden, but not because of airport traffic.
Most of LAX Bus Center is used for transferring, and there's a better chance
that workers will use transit more than airport passengers.
Mike Ward
>What? Is it possible that there could be airports (in cities with public
>transportation) that don't have any service to them?
Well, a city as big as Sacramento didn't have ANY public
transportation to its passenger airport until about a year ago. And
even now, that service is provided by suburban operator Yolobus and
not by Sacramento-based Regional Transit.
>Austin's CapMetro
>makes such a big deal out of direct access to the airport, I thought it
>was commonplace. It takes the #20-Manor Rd a minimum of 4 1/2 minutes --
>and much longer when traffic is backed up -- to make a net zero
>displacement, and this for only an occasional boarding... bugs the
>freakin' heck out of me!
Not really a major problem here - Yolobus 42 seems to be picking up a
decent ridership out of Sacramento International Airport, and it's the
only stop on the route between downtown Sacramento and Woodland (the
rest is via I-5 and the airport is off of I-5).
Mike
Ron Newman
> >Also, the terminals at LAX are designed with two decks, for
> >arrivals and departures. All buses would have to make two passes around the
> >loop.
>
> Not necessarily. Timetables could just specify "Loops around arrivals
> level" for example. Anyone who wanted to depart could just take a
> quick escalator ride.
Boston's Logan Airport has both a departure (upper) and arrival (lower)
level. The shuttle buses serve only the lower level. Do LAX's shuttles
really go to both levels?
Access Systems
> > >Also, the terminals at LAX are designed with two decks, for
> > >arrivals and departures. All buses would have to make two passes around the
> level. The shuttle buses serve only the lower level. Do LAX's shuttles
> really go to both levels?
Baltimore BWI's airport shuttle buses serve both levels making two loops
around the terminal, there is a special little roadway for connecting the
outbound upper with the inbound lower roadway.
non airport buses, TA, etc all are restricted to the lower level only,
the TA has two locations with regular bus stop signs (well they did, the
terminal has been rebuilt and haven't taken the bus since then, use the
Light rail now)
Bob
Michael O. Brandt
David A. Villa <dav...@earthling.net> wrote:
> What? Is it possible that there could be airports (in cities with
> public transportation) that don't have any service to them?
I was about to post that Syracuse NY had no transit to the airport,
when I checked Centro's (the bus co.) web page and discovered that
they've just introduced airport service. However, there are only
a paltry 4 buses a day (3 on weekends.) If you want to take a bus
to catch a 2 PM departure, you'll have to arrive at the airport at
6:45 AM!
Better than nothing, but I sure hope they increase service. Perhaps
when the new bus/rail station opens this year.
-- Mike Brandt
Ray Mullins
In article <3573aea2...@nnrp2.crl.com>,
Mike Ward <mw...@crl.remove-this-part.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:45:03 -0600, dav...@earthling.net (David A.
>
>>What? Is it possible that there could be airports (in cities with public
>>transportation) that don't have any service to them?
>
>transportation to its passenger airport until about a year ago. And
>even now, that service is provided by suburban operator Yolobus and
>not by Sacramento-based Regional Transit.
Ironic, isn't it...Yolobus does also have to pickup any paratransit service
in that area, which is about 0.
>>Austin's CapMetro
>>makes such a big deal out of direct access to the airport, I thought it
>>was commonplace. It takes the #20-Manor Rd a minimum of 4 1/2 minutes --
>>and much longer when traffic is backed up -- to make a net zero
>>displacement, and this for only an occasional boarding... bugs the
>>freakin' heck out of me!
>
>Not really a major problem here - Yolobus 42 seems to be picking up a
>decent ridership out of Sacramento International Airport, and it's the
>only stop on the route between downtown Sacramento and Woodland (the
>rest is via I-5 and the airport is off of I-5).
It's almost doubled expectations. Once again, provide it, they will come.
There are state employees who leave their car in their parking structure
downtown and ride it to the airport when they have to travel elsewhere in
the state.
Fred B. Young Jr.
Ron Newman wrote:
> Boston's Logan Airport has both a departure (upper) and arrival (lower)
> level. The shuttle buses serve only the lower level. Do LAX's shuttles
> really go to both levels?
Yes. There are basically 2 routes. The "arrivals" route, where the
shuttle
bus leaves the parking lot empty and starts picking up on the lower
(arrivals) level, makes the complete loop, and heads to the parking
lot, where it makes various stops around the entire lot (if you've
never been to LAX, this lot is huge. If your flight happens to arrive
on the north runways, you fly right over it). The "departures" route
leaves the lot with passengers and drops off at all the terminals,
then returns to the lot. However, you can get on at the stops on
the upper level (mostly LAX employees who want to get to the
MTA bus center--employees who drive to work have their own
parking lot, with it's own dedicated shuttle (Lot D))
--
Fred B. Young Jr.
USC-University of Southern California
"Later, Grizzly dudes"
--Bart Simpson
Ray Mullins
In article <rnewman-ya0240800...@enews.newsguy.com>,
Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> wrote:
>In article <6kvvt4$c8p$7...@your.mother.com>, apo...@mail.mother.com wrote:
>
>> >Also, the terminals at LAX are designed with two decks, for
>> >arrivals and departures. All buses would have to make two passes around the
>>
>> Not necessarily. Timetables could just specify "Loops around arrivals
>> quick escalator ride.
>
>level. The shuttle buses serve only the lower level. Do LAX's shuttles
>really go to both levels?
They make two passes. When leaving the parking lot (The LAX City Bus
Center is adjacent to Lot C, and it's a short walk to the shuttle bus
boarding area), they first run on the departure (upper) level, dropping
off everyone. Then they go to the arrival (lower) level, and pick up everyone
heading to the parking lot. All of the lots (C, D, VSP (is that what it
is still called, the one at 111th & Aviation)), plus the G (Aviation
Green Line Station) and the I (Imperial Terminal, a charter-only
facility on the south side of the airport, the prior terminal area pre
1960's) have this type of service. The A, the internal shuttle, operates
only on the lower level, so if you have to go from one terminal to another
you must get off on the lower level and take an escalator or elevator to
the departure level.
(Were there enough parenthetical statements there?)
LAter,
Steve Hoskins
In article <35742F...@bcf.usc.edu>,
"Fred B. Young Jr." <yo...@bcf.usc.edu> wrote:
>Yes. There are basically 2 routes. The "arrivals" route, where the
>shuttle leaves the parking lot empty and starts picking up on the lower
>(arrivals) level, makes the complete loop, and heads to the parking
>lot, where it makes various stops around the entire lot (if you've
>never been to LAX, this lot is huge. If your flight happens to arrive
>on the north runways, you fly right over it). The "departures" route
>leaves the lot with passengers and drops off at all the terminals,
>then returns to the lot. However, you can get on at the stops on
>the upper level (mostly LAX employees who want to get to the
>MTA bus center--employees who drive to work have their own
>parking lot, with it's own dedicated shuttle (Lot D))
What I've seen them doing at LAX is leaving Parking Lot C with a load, going to the upper
(departure) deck and dropping passengers at all the terminals, then they take a loop just east of
Terminal 7/8 (United) that drops to the lower level and they start loading up people who need to
go to the lot.
Deadheading to/from the lot from each level is NOT really that productive.
David McLoughlin
David A. Villa wrote:
> > From the FAQ:
> >
> >10.1: Which airports have scheduled city bus services?
>
> transportation) that don't have any service to them?
Neither Auckland, the largest city in New Zealand (one million people)
nor Wellington, the capital (400,000 people) have scheduled city bus
services to their airports, though you can find inconvenient, cramped and
elderly airport buses if you look.
Melbourne, Australia (pop 3.2 million) has no no scheduled city transit
service to its airport, just a gungy old airport bus. Until the airport
was shifted in 1972, there was a regular tram line to the airport, which
now, despite a 1991 extension towards the new airport, is still about 3km
short of the terminals.
There appear to be quite a lot of airports around the world like this.
Sydney, Australia, pop 3.8 million, is only now constructing a new
underground train line to its airport.
David McLoughlin
Auckland New Zealand
While Parliament is in session, no working person's income, nor anyone's
rights and freedoms, are safe from plunder by their elected
representatives.
David McLoughlin
Mike Ward wrote:
> Well, a city as big as Sacramento didn't have ANY public
> transportation to its passenger airport until about a year ago. And
> even now, that service is provided by suburban operator Yolobus and
> not by Sacramento-based Regional Transit.
>
Can someone compose a line describing Yolobus for inclusion in the FAQ?
The name comes up so frequently it is obviously worth an entry in the
list of operators.
Ray Mullins
In article <35749C...@iprolink.co.nz>,
David McLoughlin <dav...@iprolink.co.nz> wrote:
>Mike Ward wrote:
>
>> Well, a city as big as Sacramento didn't have ANY public
>> transportation to its passenger airport until about a year ago. And
>> even now, that service is provided by suburban operator Yolobus and
>> not by Sacramento-based Regional Transit.
>>
>
>Can someone compose a line describing Yolobus for inclusion in the FAQ?
>The name comes up so frequently it is obviously worth an entry in the
>list of operators.
Yolobus - Bus service operated by the Yolo County Transportation District.
Yolo County is immediately to the west of Sacramento County, and contains
the cities of West Sacramento, Davis, Woodland and Winters. Yolobus
operates local service in these cities, along with connecting bus service.
It also operates commuter service into downtown Sacramento. Yolobus is the
local service provider to Sacramento International Airport. It also
operates the "Citylink" service between the Solano County cities of
Fairfield and Vacaville, and Davis.
Yolobus was founded after Sacramento RT decided to drop its outlying
services to save money for building its light rail system.
Davis is the home of Unitrans, which is famous for having operated old
London double decker buses for many years.
How's that?
Later,
David McLoughlin
Ray Mullins wrote:
> Yolobus - Bus service operated by the Yolo County Transportation District.
> Yolo County is immediately to the west of Sacramento County, and contains
> the cities of West Sacramento, Davis, Woodland and Winters. Yolobus
> operates local service in these cities, along with connecting bus service.
> It also operates commuter service into downtown Sacramento. Yolobus is the
> local service provider to Sacramento International Airport. It also
> operates the "Citylink" service between the Solano County cities of
> Fairfield and Vacaville, and Davis.
> snipped rest
> How's that?
That's great, thanks. It's in the FAQ
James D. Umbach
The cat walked across acce...@smart.net (Access Systems)'s keyboard
and wrote:
>Baltimore BWI's airport shuttle buses serve both levels making two loops
>around the terminal, there is a special little roadway for connecting the
>outbound upper with the inbound lower roadway.
> non airport buses, TA, etc all are restricted to the lower level only,
>the TA has two locations with regular bus stop signs (well they did, the
>terminal has been rebuilt and haven't taken the bus since then, use the
>Light rail now)
In Portland, Oregon, Tri-Met buses do not serve the terminal directly.
Rather, it is necessary to ride an airport shuttle bus to the
rental-car building, where Tri-Met picks up.
In Sacramento, California, YoloBus drops off and picks up right at the
restaurant building between the two existing terminals. I'm not sure
if a stop will be added or not once the <LOCALJOKE>InterGalactic
Facility</LOCALJOKE> opens this Fall.
James D. Umbach
>Baltimore BWI's airport shuttle buses serve both levels making two loops
>around the terminal, there is a special little roadway for connecting the
>outbound upper with the inbound lower roadway.
> non airport buses, TA, etc all are restricted to the lower level only,
>the TA has two locations with regular bus stop signs (well they did, the
>terminal has been rebuilt and haven't taken the bus since then, use the
>Light rail now)
In Portland, Oregon, Tri-Met buses do not serve the terminal directly.
Rather, it is necessary to ride an airport shuttle bus to the
rental-car building, where Tri-Met picks up.
In Sacramento, California, YoloBus drops off and picks up right at the
restaurant building between the two existing terminals. I'm not sure
if a stop will be added or not once the <LOCALJOKE>InterGalactic
Facility</LOCALJOKE> opens this Fall.
In Ontario, California, OmniTrans and IEC pick up in front of the
Delta terminal right in front of the building.
In Burbank, California, MetroLink, AmTrak, and city buses stop on
Empire Blvd. about 1/2 mile from the terminal. I think there is also
an official BURBANK AIRPORT TRANSIT CENTER on Hollywood Way a bit
closer to the terminal.
Mike Ward
>In Sacramento, California, YoloBus drops off and picks up right at the
>restaurant building between the two existing terminals. I'm not sure
>if a stop will be added or not once the <LOCALJOKE>InterGalactic
>Facility</LOCALJOKE> opens this Fall.
So that's what they're calling the new terminal? ;) I would fully
expect that they'll add a stop, if only because it's A) way too far a
walk from the existing terminals and B) because it'll be a busy
terminal due to being the new home of Southwest et al. But perhaps
Ray or someone who has talked to YCTD lately can clarify this.
Mike
Ron Newman
> In Burbank, California, MetroLink, AmTrak, and city buses stop on
> Empire Blvd. about 1/2 mile from the terminal.
Is there a shuttle bus from there? Surely passengers with luggage
can't be expected to walk 10 minutes from a bus stop to the terminal.
Ray Mullins
In article <35765430...@nnrp2.crl.com>,
Geez, why does everyone think I'm the Yolo authority? Hell, I live
in Placer County!
I think Kirk built in enough time to allow serving the loop to the
new SpacePort when it is ready.
I thought, though, that they were going to dump the old terminals and
build a new one over there (which at the current rate should take about
15 years).
<inside joke>
Hey Mike, you sounded pretty good last night, covering for Jeff...maybe
we should have elections more often. :-)
And is Spencer mellowing out since he will be a new daddy? :-)
</inside joke>
Ray Mullins
In article <6l53dk$1k$1...@your.mother.com>,
James D. Umbach <apo...@mail.mother.com> wrote:
>The cat walked across acce...@smart.net (Access Systems)'s keyboard
>and wrote:
>
>
>>Baltimore BWI's airport shuttle buses serve both levels making two loops
>>around the terminal, there is a special little roadway for connecting the
>>outbound upper with the inbound lower roadway.
>> non airport buses, TA, etc all are restricted to the lower level only,
>>the TA has two locations with regular bus stop signs (well they did, the
>>terminal has been rebuilt and haven't taken the bus since then, use the
>>Light rail now)
>
>
>In Ontario, California, OmniTrans and IEC pick up in front of the
>Delta terminal right in front of the building.
Omni 71 (I think) and Inland Empire Connection 110.
>In Burbank, California, MetroLink, AmTrak, and city buses stop on
>Empire Blvd. about 1/2 mile from the terminal. I think there is also
>an official BURBANK AIRPORT TRANSIT CENTER on Hollywood Way a bit
>closer to the terminal.
The "terminal" is actually the intersection at the east entrance. The remote
parking lot shuttle also acts as the shuttle to the bus stop. Depending on
where you get off the bus, you might have to schlep your luggage across 2
crosswalks.
Kintaro Freon
James D. Umbach wrote:
> The cat walked across acce...@smart.net (Access Systems)'s keyboard
> and wrote:
>
> >Baltimore BWI's airport shuttle buses serve both levels making two loops
> >around the terminal, there is a special little roadway for connecting the
> >outbound upper with the inbound lower roadway.
> > non airport buses, TA, etc all are restricted to the lower level only,
> >the TA has two locations with regular bus stop signs (well they did, the
> >terminal has been rebuilt and haven't taken the bus since then, use the
> >Light rail now)
>
> In Portland, Oregon, Tri-Met buses do not serve the terminal directly.
> Rather, it is necessary to ride an airport shuttle bus to the
> rental-car building, where Tri-Met picks up.
>
> In Sacramento, California, YoloBus drops off and picks up right at the
> restaurant building between the two existing terminals. I'm not sure
> if a stop will be added or not once the <LOCALJOKE>InterGalactic
> Facility</LOCALJOKE> opens this Fall.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | James D. Umbach | apostle (at) mother.com |
> | Citrus Heights, California | my web site: http://www.mother.com/~apostle |
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If a picture is worth 1,000 words, how many words is a .GIF worth? Or a .JPG?
>
>
>
At the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport the King County Metro Transit stop is
just a short walk away from the southern baggage claim wing on the lower level.
Four routes run in and out of Sea-Tac with local and express service to Downtown
Seattle along service to Federal Way, Southcenter Mall, Bellevue, and all points
beyond. On that note the airport is used not just as a stopping point for the bus
system, it is also a transit hub.
Kintaro Freon
"Never underestimate the power of a handicapped bus pass."
--
"All I Want is What You Want...I'm Always Waiting for a Red Letter Day"
---Pet Shop Boys
Ron Newman
In article <357899CA...@hotmail.com>, Kintaro Freon
<teen...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> At the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport the King County Metro Transit
stop is
> just a short walk away from the southern baggage claim wing on the lower
level.
> Four routes run in and out of Sea-Tac with local and express service to
Downtown
> Seattle along service to Federal Way, Southcenter Mall, Bellevue, and all
points
> beyond. On that note the airport is used not just as a stopping point for
the bus
> system, it is also a transit hub.
Do a significant number of people transfer between bus lines at the airport,
who are neither coming from nor going to the airport?
Kintaro Freon
Ron Newman wrote:
There are lots of non-airport customers that stop at Sea-Tac for transfering
from bus to bus, for example those going from South King County to Southcenter
Mall or Bellevue and vice-versa. Another way the airport stop is used is a
jumping-off point from the 194 Express to the 174 local, for example if someone
is going from Federal Way to the Museum of Flight or South Seattle (though
connections are not guaranteed).
Kintaro Freon
http://home.earthlink.net/~kfreon/kfreon.html
teen...@hotmail.com
ERIKG3
>> In Portland, Oregon, Tri-Met buses do not serve the terminal directly.
>> Rather, it is necessary to ride an airport shuttle bus to the
>> rental-car building, where Tri-Met picks up.
This is just temporary during the un-necessary parking expansion (should have
extended Max instead)
Once the deadly construction is finished, Tri-Met route 12 will return to a
bay near the arrivals door.
-Erik
James D. Umbach
The cat walked across eri...@aol.com (ERIKG3)'s keyboard and wrote:
>This is just temporary during the un-necessary parking expansion (should have
>extended Max instead)
> Once the deadly construction is finished, Tri-Met route 12 will return to a
>bay near the arrivals door.
That would make more sense. I agree with you; parking should never be
expanded unless it is not possible to improve transit to a location.
Jim Ley
James D. Umbach wrote:
>
> The cat walked across acce...@smart.net (Access Systems)'s keyboard
> and wrote:
>
>
> In Sacramento, California, YoloBus drops off and picks up right at the
> restaurant building between the two existing terminals. I'm not sure
> if a stop will be added or not once the <LOCALJOKE>InterGalactic
> Facility</LOCALJOKE> opens this Fall.
>
AFAIK, Yolo will re-route to the new terminal when it opens, adding a
stop there. I have no idea of how they are going to do this.
Jim Ley