More truck info requested
Brian McDaniel
Well here I am the trucker wana be, asking more questions and hopping to
get serious answers. Yeah I know, lotsa luck, right?
Anyhow here goes. I've been searching for info on what truck to buy. I
see lots of Freight liners 4 or 5 years old w/ 4 to 6K miles in the $20
K range, I guess that must be the average price. What I'd like to know
is are the Ken and Pete trucks really worth the extra money when they
are similarly equipped? Also where is the best place considering
price/service/reputation to buy a good used truck. I live in the
Seattle/Tacoma area and been to a couple of lots near home. I'd like
some real world experience to help guide me on this venture so if you
would like to leave a bit of practical knowledge for me I could really
us it.
Thanks, Bri.
tscottme
and looking to buy a truck? I think most everyone would recommend that if
you are new to the industry and ownership, you really take a couple of years
to work as a company driver, letting the company assume all financial
responsibility while you are paid to learn the business.
One really bad part of the industry is the newbie-owner/operator or newbie
lease/purchase scam. There are plenty of shady "trucking" companies that
make more money recruiting new "owners" and repossessing their truck to sell
to the next new "owner" than they make shipping freight.
You might want to check out the owner-operator section over at layover.com.
Brian McDaniel wrote:
--
Scott Methvin
My President sold our nuclear secrets to
Communist China and all I got was this Sig file.
Brian McDaniel
they seem to be selling off the place and getting rid of us workers. I am
looking into trucking as a backup plan at this point since Boeing will pay for
my training.
L8R, Bri
Rusty Wade the 48th ronin
> What I'd like to know
>is are the Ken and Pete trucks really worth the extra money when they
>are similarly equipped?... I'd like
>some real world experience to help guide me on this venture so if you
>would like to leave a bit of practical knowledge for me I could really
>us it.
>Thanks, Bri.
I'll take a shot...
(used freightshakers with 400,000 miles (reasonable big spec 120 fld) are
selling in the 40k range but trading in at the 28K range..97 Kenworths with
400,000 are selling in the 55k range and tradeing in at the 45K range.
Which is the better deal?
IF you are going to drive it till it dies, (not sell after 3 years and
depreciate to 0$) the freight shaker will probably still sell from 8 to 12K,
The Kenworth will sell for 15 to18 K if you keep it up well!
You have to decide what your TAX stance vis a vis earnings and capitol gain are
going to be before you decide which is better, a smaller investment with a
smaller return, or a larger investment and a larger capitol gain.
Due to the 3 year write off you will get more tax sheltered income with the
more expensive truck. This may help you structure your income in a tax
sheltered fashion so that you pay as much as 5 thousand less in income tax over
the three years and still change 40k of income into 18 k of capitol gain!
Or to be simpler about it, If you are trying to use tax abatment to finance
growth ( my current plan) you get more bang with a more expensive truck, which
allows uncle sugar to help you pay for even more expensive trucks etc.... Your
exit from the growth stage to a coast or even profit retreival stage should be
planned about 3 years in advance so that you maximize the income to capitol
gains exchange,
With a little planning you can roll over the capitol gain into a tax defered
retirement plan and provide retirement that makes social security look like the
pansy scheme it always was!
My experience the last 2 years as I have gone from 1 new kenworth to 3 new
kenworths and 2 used freightliners ( this month we are adding another new
((2001 model)) kenworth and another used freightlinr) is that a well maintained
freightliner with 0$ down payment and monthly payments of about $1400 a month
will not quite cover the income if you let a team get in one, You will begin to
incure income that you will be taxed on unless you have some other corperate
liability ( such as a new office building, shop, or some high payment new
trucks) you can use to shelter the income from the tax man!
Of course you might not worry about adding a few thousand of the dollars you
will clear with the used freight shaker to the Federal budget surplus, so play
it the way your business sense tells you.......
Low payments and low depreciation ..... will make you feel rich for the first
year or so anyway......
The kenworth might cost more, but being as all the payments after the initial
down are from revenue generated by the operation of the truck rather than your
stash in the bank, you are simly transfering value from income to the asset,
untill you SELL the asset the only thing you will notice is that you feel
broke, and you don't send large chunks of the revenue to the IRS office... At
sale time you will have to deal with the capitol gain!
Rusty
http://hometown.aol.com/fourty8thronin/myhomepage/index.html
You own a truck but you are not a member of OOIDA!
What's your excuse for that decision?
I receive e-mail at the screen name DIARX here at aol!
ChubbyCox
To tell ya the truth, most of that went right over my head.
Rusty Wade the 48th ronin <truc...@aol.commune.nz> wrote in message
news:20000702024141...@nso-md.aol.com...
Elenbaum
Michigan to purchase one. There is a glut of trucks out here. I have a nice
1995 Freightliner condo that I am selling for $19,900 470hp. Detroit. A
1994 Freightliner Condo for $15,900 425hp. Detroit. A 1995 Flat top Freight
for $13,900 365hp. Detroit. I also have a '93 W900L 425hp. Detroit for
$27,900 You can see pictures and specs at http://www.trucksforsale.com
We could pick you up at the Airport and you could drive one home
Ryan Elenbaum
ChubbyCox <he...@win.bright.net> wrote in message
news:7oJ75.289$r9....@reggie.win.bright.net...
Brian McDaniel
understand it but it sounds interesting now.
THanks, Bri.
Me
hardest to re-sell because they lose there value very quickly. The petes and
KW's may cost alittle more but you get a bigger trade in value.
Brian McDaniel <bb...@scn.org> wrote in message
news:395E16AF...@scn.org...
> Hello All:
> Well here I am the trucker wana be, asking more questions and hopping to
> get serious answers. Yeah I know, lotsa luck, right?
> Anyhow here goes. I've been searching for info on what truck to buy. I
> see lots of Freight liners 4 or 5 years old w/ 4 to 6K miles in the $20
> K range, I guess that must be the average price. What I'd like to know
> is are the Ken and Pete trucks really worth the extra money when they
> are similarly equipped? Also where is the best place considering
> price/service/reputation to buy a good used truck. I live in the
> Seattle/Tacoma area and been to a couple of lots near home. I'd like
Tony
>
> I am been financing trucks for a number of years now, Freightliners are the
> hardest to re-sell because they lose there value very quickly. The petes and
> KW's may cost alittle more but you get a bigger trade in value.
For the life of me, I have never understood why trade in value is of
great concern, or for that matter, why anyone trades a truck before it
is used completely up. Depreciation is great, but I've never saved more
by depreciating versus running a paid for truck for a few years more...
I'll take a used Freightliner any day over a Peterbilt or a Kenworth.
Why? Because those cheap payments allow me to put more in my pocket each
month, and the service life of a Freightliner is just as viable as any
other truck out there. Parts are generally cheaper for a Freightliner,
and with an availability of plenty of them to choose from, I suspect
I'll have a good selection to choose from, for many years to come.
~Tony~
nob...@nobody.com
If that's the case why not a cornbinder?
Rusty Wade the 48th ronin
>
>Add on question:
>
>If that's the case why not a cornbinder?
>
ONE WORD ANSWER........DRIVERS
That is if you are refering to TRANSTAR.......( which they no longer make.)
If you are ferering to pro sleeper conventional, simply noty enough production
to compete in the bottom feeder market!
Rusty Wade the 48th ronin
<hun...@netusa1.net> writes:
>
>I am been financing trucks for a number of years now, Freightliners are the
>hardest to re-sell because they lose there value very quickly. The petes and
>KW's may cost alittle more but you get a bigger trade in value.
>
This is and has been true for years... And the dirty little (not so) secret of
the used truck industry is called "Guarenteed return value" ( so people call it
guarenteed buy back) given to the big fleets as incentive!
How does it work?.... let me explain.....
Lets say hypothetical trucking company SNOOPER International has been buying
500 International cab overs for the last 10 years.. The Fruitliner folks might
offer to sell them 500 of there new MILINIUM model trucks at $87k and if they
are returned at the 400K to 450K range (still under manufacturers warrentees)
they will guarentee the tradein value ( and possible even guarentee to BUY
BACK, (( a different kettle of fish as it involves no NEW sale))) at $45K.
This allows Don Snooper to calculate exactly his cost per mile for 450Ks of
truck miles and bid his freight as LOW as possible.
While this makes for a year of record sales for the new milinium model truck,
it might happen that fuel prices skyrocket, the new trucks experience a high
number of design defects (possibly electrical in nature), and the fruitliner
people might end up with thousands of 3-4 year old used trucks that they have
defered $45k of the orriginal manufacturers cost on!
They now might find themselves in the possisition of holdiing thousands of
fleet spec, fleet maintained, and over priced used trucks... They would be
forced to try to market these trucks.
Thjey might even conceve a new division of "choice trucks" dealers to try to
sell these dYnosaures to unsuspecting individuals in order to recoup that
defered investment.
Meanwhile financing for those vehicles wpould be a major investment for the
parent company removing money from other needs..
The outside truck dealers (non manufacturer types like Arrow or Honest charleis
truck mart) would find that their financing agencies would grow increasingly
wary of financing those used trucks as the down stream looking CEOs of the
financial community see the GLUT that Fruitliner people are faceing...
These hypothetical facts might influence the original posters calculations...
Let's see... Kenworth cost 48K three years later kenworth sells for 18K
Fruitliner cost 38k three years later makes most impressive mail box post in
the county as it sits on the side of the property with a for sale sign in the
window for so long the owner puts a mail box 48 inches from the ground and gets
" something" out of it anyway!
Disclaimer.... This was written by the owner of two O_O spec 1997 fld120s who
is takeing delivery on a third the 14th of july. ( fortunatly I have enough
relatives to use them all for mail box posts if that becomes necessary! <G>
nob...@nobody.com
be doing to it in the very near future? Engine, trans?
Thanks.
Tony
Nothing odd about that either. International makes a good truck too...
It's just not popular with the cowboy crowd...
~Tony~
Tony
> the bottom feeder market!
What EXACTLY does that term mean Rusty?
~Tony~
Tony
If they've been maintained well, and not "dogged" to death, then you can
expect at least 300,000 to 500,000 miles out of the drivetrain without
major problems. I would however check into finding out how long it had
been since overhead adjustments and lower bearing replacements have been
done. If you can't find out these two things, do them before placing
them in service to insure that the engine is in top form. Look at the
condition of the lubricant in the transmission and the rears, paying
close attention to look for any metal particles in the lubricant, and if
it needs changing, do that as well.
Truck engines are much better these days, and a million miles before
major overhaul is not unusual these days, with proper maintenance
procedures, and the use of a good oil. I personally have always used
Shell Rotella, and will never be convinced that it is not the best.
~Tony~
Rusty Wade the 48th ronin
>
>OK so I get some 1997 Petes with 500,000 miles. What can I expect to
>be doing to it in the very near future? Engine, trans?
>
>Thanks.
>
>
alternators, change the oil, possibly some of the suspension bushings if the
grease jobs have been sloppy....( I am doing a type 200 kenworth air ride now
due to poor greasing... $1000 worth of don't beleive they are doing it if you
never check behind them!)
The manufacturer warrentees the rears and tranny for 750, 000 miles if they
have been using synthetics( 500,000 on normal gear oil) and changing every
200,00 miles... the motor has just gone off warentee ( 500,00 miles). You can
take it to a manufacturers repair station ( detroit or cat house) and let them
inspect the motor, they will decide if you can purchase extended warentee.. (
about 1,000 dollars per 100,000 miles!)
My cat with 600,00 miles is still going strong with only oil changes, I have
oil anylized each change and my heavy metels are running 3 on that engine... (
no sign of wear)
My other two cats are at 450,000 and also running single digits of heavy metels
on the oil!
My advise is to have the old oil drained and anylised before purchase if
possible, failing that run the engine 12 thousand miles and go get an oil
change at a speedco oil change place and pay 10$ for the 10 minute anylisis. If
your heavy metals look good, and the ph in your cooling system is good... you
probably have a winner!
Most detroit series 60 engines are now going 1,400,000 miles before overhaul!
Most e series 6 cylinder cats are getting over a million also!
you can buy extended warentees for either make.
Sorry I do not know what is available from the other engine manufacturers as I
have NONE of their products!
ChubbyCox
--
Sacrificing quality for quantity since 1971
-Chubbycox
Allan
the 48th ronin <truc...@aol.commune.nz> writes
>Lets say hypothetical trucking company SNOOPER International has been buying
>500 International cab overs for the last 10 years.. The Fruitliner folks might
>offer to sell them 500 of there new MILINIUM model trucks at $87k and if they
>are returned at the 400K to 450K range (still under manufacturers warrentees)
>they will guarentee the tradein value ( and possible even guarentee to BUY
>BACK, (( a different kettle of fish as it involves no NEW sale))) at $45K.
>This allows Don Snooper to calculate exactly his cost per mile for 450Ks of
>truck miles and bid his freight as LOW as possible.
>
>While this makes for a year of record sales for the new milinium model truck,
>it might happen that fuel prices skyrocket, the new trucks experience a high
>number of design defects (possibly electrical in nature), and the fruitliner
>people might end up with thousands of 3-4 year old used trucks that they have
>defered $45k of the orriginal manufacturers cost on!
>They now might find themselves in the possisition of holdiing thousands of
>fleet spec, fleet maintained, and over priced used trucks... They would be
>forced to try to market these trucks.
One European truck manufacturer (can't remember who), commenting on the
necessity of this "guaranteed buy back" practice in order to sell any
trucks at all to the large Supermarket chains and "Don Snooper" type
fleet owners once said:
"We're selling them for less than they cost to build and having to buy
them back for more than they're worth"
I think that about sums up the manufacturers dilemma in a nutshell.
--
Allan
UK Amateur Radio Operator G7UZW
Remove NOSPAM in the return address
al...@rdodds.demon.co.uk
Allan
writes
> Look at the
>condition of the lubricant in the transmission and the rears, paying
>close attention to look for any metal particles in the lubricant, and if
>it needs changing, do that as well.
If the truck is unknown to you, an oil analysis will tell volumes. Your
oil jobber may even do them for free for you if you buy a lot of oil, if
not it is a tiny price to pay for the information which can be gleaned
on the internal condition of the engine. Apart from the obvious (like
condition of the oil) it can tell you of current or impending problems
in the internal metal parts and their state of wear, fuel dilution of
the oil (internal problems in the fuel pump), glycol/water presence in
the oil (head gasket and/or oil cooler problems) and so on. And all
before the big expensive breakdown occurs, so you can schedule the
repair at your favorite shop and buy the parts from the cheapest source.
Allan
>take it to a manufacturers repair station ( detroit or cat house)
of overhaul altogether ROTFL
Ckrepp
>From: truc...@aol.commune.nz (Rusty Wade the 48th ronin)
>Date: 7/3/00 7:04 AM Mountain Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20000703090440...@nso-md.aol.com>
>>
>>If that's the case why not a cornbinder?
>>
>
>That is if you are refering to TRANSTAR.......( which they no longer make.)
>If you are ferering to pro sleeper conventional, simply noty enough
>production
>to compete in the bottom feeder market!
>
Rusty, get a spell checker would you???
-------------------------------------------------------------
Tony
> But don't you pay a hell of a lot more in taxes then?
Not necessarily.
If I am paying roughly $1000 less per truck, per month, this comes to
$12,000 a year, per truck.
I can still depreciate the lower cost truck, write off the marginally
increased maintenance costs, and when it is used up, totally, as was my
practice, it has little if any value. I don't pay taxes on the capital
gain at the end, after having depreciated it out, if it is sold and I
recoup a portion of what I wrote off and
I'm still money ahead.
I also bought equipment anytime I found myself in a situation where
Uncle Sam might have reason to take some of my excess cash. In essence,
I invested my profit into the business to avoid being taxed on profit.
Hey, a new truck is nice, but you've got to work it almost twice as hard
to see the profit level that you can out of a used truck, since the
payments can be half of what they are on a new one. You do have to be
careful though and not buy junk. If you can't reasonably determine the
exact mileage, and have some reference of the service that the truck has
received, then I would steer clear of it. Any good dealer will have
service records available for fleet trade-ins. This is a definite plus
when trading on in.
~Tony~
ChubbyCox
$1,750.00 payment a month became unbearable. BUT, I also know that I am not
a mechanic, and an older truck would be problematic as well. For the time
being I am a company driver untill I can learn to become a better buisiness
manager.
--
Sacrificing quality for quantity since 1971
-Chubbycox
> Hey, a new truck is nice, but you've got to work it almost twice as hard
Bri
such a good truck, however at the end of the note you seem to say that
you are buying more freightliners. Are they actually a good gamble or a
truck good for running into the ground without any resale value or are
you just kidding?
Thanks, Brian McDaniel 'from a different computer'
Rusty Wade the 48th ronin wrote:
>
> In article <LpV75.4072$JZ4....@newsfeed.slurp.net>, "Me"
> <hun...@netusa1.net> writes:
>
> >
> >I am been financing trucks for a number of years now, Freightliners are the
> >hardest to re-sell because they lose there value very quickly. The petes and
> >KW's may cost alittle more but you get a bigger trade in value.
> >
>
> This is and has been true for years... And the dirty little (not so) secret of
> the used truck industry is called "Guarenteed return value" ( so people call it
> guarenteed buy back) given to the big fleets as incentive!
>
> How does it work?.... let me explain.....
> Lets say hypothetical trucking company SNOOPER International has been buying
> 500 International cab overs for the last 10 years.. The Fruitliner folks might
> offer to sell them 500 of there new MILINIUM model trucks at $87k and if they
> are returned at the 400K to 450K range (still under manufacturers warrentees)
> they will guarentee the tradein value ( and possible even guarentee to BUY
> BACK, (( a different kettle of fish as it involves no NEW sale))) at $45K.
> This allows Don Snooper to calculate exactly his cost per mile for 450Ks of
> truck miles and bid his freight as LOW as possible.
>
> While this makes for a year of record sales for the new milinium model truck,
> it might happen that fuel prices skyrocket, the new trucks experience a high
> number of design defects (possibly electrical in nature), and the fruitliner
> people might end up with thousands of 3-4 year old used trucks that they have
> defered $45k of the orriginal manufacturers cost on!
> They now might find themselves in the possisition of holdiing thousands of
> fleet spec, fleet maintained, and over priced used trucks... They would be
> forced to try to market these trucks.
> Thjey might even conceve a new division of "choice trucks" dealers to try to
> sell these dYnosaures to unsuspecting individuals in order to recoup that
> defered investment.
>
> Meanwhile financing for those vehicles wpould be a major investment for the
> parent company removing money from other needs..
>
> The outside truck dealers (non manufacturer types like Arrow or Honest charleis
> truck mart) would find that their financing agencies would grow increasingly
> wary of financing those used trucks as the down stream looking CEOs of the
> financial community see the GLUT that Fruitliner people are faceing...
>
> These hypothetical facts might influence the original posters calculations...
>
> Let's see... Kenworth cost 48K three years later kenworth sells for 18K
>
> Fruitliner cost 38k three years later makes most impressive mail box post in
> the county as it sits on the side of the property with a for sale sign in the
> window for so long the owner puts a mail box 48 inches from the ground and gets
> " something" out of it anyway!
>
> Disclaimer.... This was written by the owner of two O_O spec 1997 fld120s who
> is takeing delivery on a third the 14th of july. ( fortunatly I have enough
> relatives to use them all for mail box posts if that becomes necessary! <G>
>
Chuck U. Farley
--
Chuck U. Farley intoned thusly:
Rusty, that post was enlightening and informative. Long have I suspected
the type of jiggery-pokery you describe, but never have I seen it so clearly
described. Also, very amusing turn of phrase you have there.
"Where did all these f***ing Indians come from?"
-General Custer
<snipped for brevity>
Rusty Wade the 48th ronin
>
>Well Rusty, it sounds from this note that the freightliners may not be
>such a good truck, however at the end of the note you seem to say that
>you are buying more freightliners. Are they actually a good gamble or a
>truck good for running into the ground without any resale value or are
>you just kidding?
>Thanks, Brian McDaniel 'from a different computer'
>
tHIS WEEK i HAVE CONTRACTED FOR 1 FREIGHTLINER, 1 2001 new W900 KENWORTH AND 3
1998 T600 KENWORTHS.
I think the freightliner ( which is from the same fleet as my other 2
freightliners) will make me money as long as I do not expect to resale it for
much when I am done with it. ( my intentions are to lkeep the 3 identical
trucks and run them into the ground local when they get too old to run OTR!)
The 3 used t600s are a better deal even tho I will pay initially 10K more for
them ( they are lower miles, more engine warentee left etc). The new truck will
be used by my son in law for training and will get the most miles on it!
Would I buy a cheap freightliner and run it into the ground? I am doing that!
Would I buy low mileage kenworths? I am doing that because I am growing too
fast for all new equiptment. Would I buy NEW kenworths? ( This will be the 3rd)
Yes.
We are putting the freightliners into a seperate corperation from the
kenworths, and in 3 years we will have answers to questions I only have theorYs
about now!
I am betting my money and my future on my ideas... Every owner does this!
Good luck what ever you decide to do!
KF4PLG