Train Riga or Vilnius to Tallinn?
David Eerdmans
Hi all,
is there a train from Vilnius or Riga to Tallinn? Or a way to reach Tallinn
from the other Baltic states without travelling via St. Petersburg? The
"supermap" on Steam Engine IS (
http://www.parovoz.com/maps/supermap/index-e.html ) shows a railway line to
Estonia via Lyga zhi (sp? my cyrillic is not that good), but can't find
anything with Hafas.
Thanks.
Regards,
David
--
David's Rhätische Bahn Pages:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~davidee/
Timo Valtonen
news:01c2cdee$e436c3a0$9600000a@jg3barten5...
>
> is there a train from Vilnius or Riga to Tallinn? Or a way to reach
Tallinn
> from the other Baltic states without travelling via St. Petersburg? The
> "supermap" on Steam Engine IS (
> http://www.parovoz.com/maps/supermap/index-e.html ) shows a railway line
to
> Estonia via Lyga zhi (sp? my cyrillic is not that good), but can't find
> anything with Hafas.
>
Minsk - Vilnius - Riga - Tallinn, which most propably wil not be repeated.
Bus service is frequent, cheap and fairly comfortable, so slow rail services
with outdated equiptment can not compete.
tv
Timo Valtonen
news:b1vlsj$s3t$1...@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
There are fantastic plans to rebuilt the old lines to facilitate "European
standard" train service taking 7 hours to travel from Tallinn to Berlin. In
fact there are also plans to build a tunnel under the Gulf of Finland from
Helsinki to Tallinn, which would then make it possible to travel by train
from Helsinki to Berlin in just under 8 hours. Anybody around with a few
billion extra Euros?
TALLINN-RIGA-VILNIUS (CITY PAPER) The Baltic states may be on the fast track
into the European Union-but officials here say rail links to Europe are
woefully inadequate, so they are proposing a new train service to fill the
gap. Government spokesmen said Wednesday that the plan involves replacing
Soviet-era tracks, then installing modern electric trains that can travel
200 kilometers per hour from Estonia's capital, Tallinn, to Berlin in just
seven hours.
These sea-coast nations won invitations to join the EU last
month-culminating a decade-long drive to re-enter the European mainstream
after 50 years of Soviet occupation; they're slated to become full EU
members in 2004. But traveling from what will be the outer northeastern edge
of the EU to the center of business and cultural life on the continent
remains cumbersome, time consuming and costly-leading many people here
feeling isolated.
Daniel Vaarik, Estonia's government spokesman, said the new line could
foster EU goals of bringing Europe together-economically and culturally.
"Our geographical distance to many European cities is not that great, but it
is in the time it takes (to travel to those cities)," he said. "If we could
cut the time down, it would be very good for us."
There is no regular passenger or freight train traffic from the Baltic
countries to Western Europe, and car or bus travel from Tallinn to Berlin
via the mostly single-lane, poorly lit Baltic highways can take 20 hours or
more. Many locals also consider flights prohibitively expensive. A plane
from Tallinn to Berlin can cost over 500 dollars-more than the average
monthly wage here. Officials said tickets on the new train would cost half
that.
The line, dubbed Rail Baltica, would run some 1,500 kilometers from
Tallinn-through Riga and Vilnius-to Berlin, according to the head of
Estonia's Railway Department, Oleg Epner. He said project-five years in the
planning by Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians-has been introduced to
officials in the EU and also Poland-through which the train would also have
to run. He said both the EU and Poland reacted favorably. (Finland, which
could also put the new route to good use, has also been involved in talks.)
The plan seems to be gaining momentum. It was discussed in detail at a
meeting of Baltic premiers last week in Estonia, and all three government
leaders reportedly said they were bullish on the idea. Spokesmen added
later, however, that a final decision probably wouldn't be made for months,
or even years.
Epner said he was hopeful the project could be completed in 12 years, saying
it would take a decade to lay the EU-standard, 1435-millimeter-wide
track-which would replace the wider, 1520-millimeter track favored by Soviet
engineers. "By 2015, I want to be able to climb on a train with my laptop
and a cup of coffee in Tallinn and be in Berlin in seven hours," he said.
Proponents say the potential economic benefits are clear, arguing that it
would increase cargo traffic and tourism. Tourism officials, especially in
Latvia and Lithuania, have complained for years that there were not enough
cost-effective ways for tourists to get here; the vast majority of visitors
to Estonia arrive by ferry from Finland.
Most Baltic trade with Western Europe-including of Russian oil en route
through the Baltic states to Western markets-is done through seaports.
Because of a lack of lines, there is little trade with the West by rail. (A
large amount of Baltic trade with Russia is conducted by rail, thanks to the
Soviet-built networks that run east.)
Estonian Prime Minister Siim Kallas, a fiscal conservative who has tended to
cast a skeptical eye on big infrastructure projects, has also now agreed
Rail Baltica was worth serious consideration. "Sometimes a dry financialist
has to be a visionary, too," Vaarik quoted Kallas as saying.
But the Estonian leader may yet turn cool once he sees a price tag. Epner
said coming up with one will take months. But he said similar projects have
cost a whopping 1 million dollars per kilometer of track. By that measure,
the Tallinn-Berlin line could cost some to 1 billion euros. He said he hoped
the EU would help foot the bill.
[end of article]
tv
David Eerdmans
Timo Valtonen <timo.valtonen@***saunalahti.fi> schreef in artikel
<b1vlsj$s3t$1...@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>...
Thanks. Does the bus company have a website?
Regards,
David
Emil Jelstrup
David Eerdmans wrote:
> Timo Valtonen <timo.valtonen@***saunalahti.fi> schreef in artikel
> <b1vlsj$s3t$1...@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>...
> > "David Eerdmans" <usen...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
> > news:01c2cdee$e436c3a0$9600000a@jg3barten5...
> > >
> > > is there a train from Vilnius or Riga to Tallinn? Or a way to reach
> > Tallinn
> > > from the other Baltic states without travelling via St. Petersburg? The
> > > "supermap" on Steam Engine IS (
> > > http://www.parovoz.com/maps/supermap/index-e.html ) shows a railway
> line
> > to
> > > Estonia via Lyga zhi (sp? my cyrillic is not that good),
Lugazi (the "z" is with caron/hácek), or Lugazhi in transliterated Cyrillic.
> but can't find
> > > anything with Hafas.
> > >
> > No, not for years except for last summer's trial by Belorussian railways
> > Minsk - Vilnius - Riga - Tallinn, which most propably wil not be
> repeated.
> > Bus service is frequent, cheap and fairly comfortable, so slow rail
> services
> > with outdated equiptment can not compete.
In fact, it's still possible to go by train almost all the way from Riga to
Tallinn, but it's slow and uncomfortable (which probably makes it a very
interesting trip...)
You can take the daily train 664P from Riga Pasazieru 05:55 to Lugazhi 08:51.
Then it's 4 km by either bus or taxi from Lugazhi to Valga. Train 213 goes
daily from Valga 15:40 to Tallinn 20:55.
The train fare is 1.74 lats (€2.79) from Riga to Lugazi, 100 kroon (€6.39)
from Valga to Tallinn.
So it is possible, even though it's troublesome at the moment.
-
But for the Vilnius-Riga part, the train is recommendable.
Train 221 goes on uneven dates from Vilnius Centr. 23:00 to Riga Pasazieru
05:35. There are also some through trains from Ukraine or Belarus to Riga
going via Vilnius.
The fare Vilnius-Riga is 9.10 - 12.54 lats (€14.51-20.14) in a 4-bed sleeping
compartment
>
>
> Thanks. Does the bus company have a website?
You can try Eurolines (http://www.eurolines.lv or http://www.eurolines.ee),
they go often between Vilnius, Riga and Tallinn.
>
> Regards,
> David
//Emil Jelstrup
Ulf Kutzner
> Proponents say the potential economic benefits are clear, arguing that it
> would increase cargo traffic and tourism. Tourism officials, especially in
> Latvia and Lithuania, have complained for years that there were not enough
> cost-effective ways for tourists to get here;
Let's have the direct overnighter from Warsaw to Riga and maybe even to
Tallinn (will there be enough time to make the return trip with one
trainset?) on the existing line, just for beginning.
Regards, ULF
Mattiasz
"Emil Jelstrup" <120010443114...@post7.tele.dk> wrote in message
news:3E43C7E3...@post7.tele.dk...
>
>
> But for the Vilnius-Riga part, the train is recommendable.
>
> Train 221 goes on uneven dates from Vilnius Centr. 23:00 to Riga Pasazieru
> 05:35. There are also some through trains from Ukraine or Belarus to Riga
> going via Vilnius.
>
sleeping
> compartment
>
Six and a half hours for how many kilometers? On my map, the distance looks
like about 320 kilometers, which would make the average speed about 50 km/h.
Is that the fastest connection or is there some extra time built into the
timetable so that passengers will get a chance to sleep?
Mattias
Emil Jelstrup
Mattiasz wrote:
> "Emil Jelstrup" <120010443114...@post7.tele.dk> wrote in message
> news:3E43C7E3...@post7.tele.dk...
> >
> >
> > But for the Vilnius-Riga part, the train is recommendable.
> >
> > Train 221 goes on uneven dates from Vilnius Centr. 23:00 to Riga Pasazieru
> > 05:35. There are also some through trains from Ukraine or Belarus to Riga
> > going via Vilnius.
> >
> > The fare Vilnius-Riga is 9.10 - 12.54 lats (?14.51-20.14) in a 4-bed
> sleeping
> > compartment
> >
>
> Six and a half hours for how many kilometers? On my map, the distance looks
> like about 320 kilometers, which would make the average speed about 50 km/h.
The distance Vilnius - Riga is 398 km by rail (which makes the average speed 60
km/h).
An average speed of 40-60 km/h is very normal for trains in the former CIS
(with the exception of main lines like Moscow - St. Petersburg or Moscow -
Minsk, where the average speed is usually some higher).
>
> Is that the fastest connection or is there some extra time built into the
> timetable so that passengers will get a chance to sleep?
>
No, the fastest connection is train 258 (route: L'vov - Riga) going from
Vilnius 10:05 to Riga 15:47.
There's no extra time built into the timetable for sleeping (the longest stops
are on 20 minutes).
>
> Mattias
//Emil Jelstrup
jeffreybounds
I was reading in a 1935 Railway Wonders Of The World and it refers
to a night
train running fom Kaunas to Riga with a through coach from Berlin
leaving
Kaunas at 2300hrs arriving Riga at 0600hrs.A slow journey for approx
180 miles. I believe in those days travel from Vilnius was not
possible as the
line was cut at the then Poland Lithuania bordre.
Jeff
Ulf Kutzner
>
> Mattiasz wrote:
>
> > "Emil Jelstrup" <120010443114...@post7.tele.dk> wrote in message
> > news:3E43C7E3...@post7.tele.dk...
> > >
> > >
> > > But for the Vilnius-Riga part, the train is recommendable.
> > >
> > > Train 221 goes on uneven dates from Vilnius Centr. 23:00 to Riga Pasazieru
> > > 05:35. There are also some through trains from Ukraine or Belarus to Riga
> > > going via Vilnius.
> > Six and a half hours for how many kilometers? On my map, the distance looks
> > like about 320 kilometers, which would make the average speed about 50 km/h.
>
> The distance Vilnius - Riga is 398 km by rail (which makes the average speed 60
> km/h).
>
> An average speed of 40-60 km/h is very normal for trains in the former CIS
> (with the exception of main lines like Moscow - St. Petersburg or Moscow -
> Minsk, where the average speed is usually some higher).
>
> >
> > Is that the fastest connection or is there some extra time built into the
> > timetable so that passengers will get a chance to sleep?
> >
>
> No, the fastest connection is train 258 (route: L'vov - Riga) going from
> Vilnius 10:05 to Riga 15:47.
>
> There's no extra time built into the timetable for sleeping (the longest stops
> are on 20 minutes).
But train 221 should still go via Kaunas, unlike train 258.
Regards, ULF
P.L.Guillemin
Ulf Kutzner <kutz...@mail.uni-mainz.de> a écrit dans le message :
3E43EB34...@mail.uni-mainz.de...
OK, but even with automatic change-of-gauge in Sestokai, journey times
between Warzaw and Tallin will not fall below 20hrs with the current
condition of the infrastructure.
Regards
Phil