top quality tools
PASEMT4
discussion on top quality tools vs. a med. quality w/ a life time warrenty....
if you're out 4 wheeling and you need to do a field repair and the wrench
breaks the
warrenty doesn't do any good...buy the good stuff in tools just in case the
store is inaccessable (whatever reason) search the flea mkts. and garage sales
for the top
brands (craftsman, snap-on, etc) good deals on used ones sometimes...never
asked for original reciept on craftsman tools in the rare occassion i've needed
to get replacement
don
Also, you are less likely to round a bolt head, etc., with quality tools.
And quality wrenches are often more compact and fit into tighter spaces
better then cheaper wrenches, while being just as strong.
I have never regretted buying good quality tools . . .
Don
PASEMT4 (pas...@aol.com) wrote:
: discussion on top quality tools vs. a med. quality w/ a life time warrenty....
Patton Turner
pas...@aol.com (PASEMT4) wrote:
>discussion on top quality tools vs. a med. quality w/ a life time warrenty....
>if you're out 4 wheeling and you need to do a field repair and the wrench
>breaks the
>warrenty doesn't do any good...buy the good stuff in tools just in case the
>store is inaccessable (whatever reason) search the flea mkts. and garage sales
>for the top
>brands (craftsman, snap-on, etc) good deals on used ones sometimes...never
>asked for original reciept on craftsman tools in the rare occassion i've needed
>to get replacement
Craftsman are not top quality tools, though their return policy is
great. The better brands are Snap-On, Proto (not Proto Challanger),
K-D/Easco, and maybe S-K.
After TEOTWAWKI you are going to need to make sure use the strongest
socket or wrench when you need to apply serious torque, otherwise you
will mess up either the tool or fastener, or both. (Ie 6 point vs 12
point, or 1/2" drive socket instead of a 3/8" drive model)
pat
Dauven
Patton Turner wrote:
>
> pas...@aol.com (PASEMT4) wrote:
>
> >discussion on top quality tools vs. a med. quality w/ a life time
> warrenty....
> >if you're out 4 wheeling and you need to do a field repair and the
> wrench
> Craftsman are not top quality tools, though their return policy is
> great. The better brands are Snap-On, Proto (not Proto Challanger),
> K-D/Easco, and maybe S-K.
>
> After TEOTWAWKI you are going to need to make sure use the strongest
> socket or wrench when you need to apply serious torque, otherwise you
> will mess up either the tool or fastener, or both. (Ie 6 point vs 12
> point, or 1/2" drive socket instead of a 3/8" drive model)
>
> pat
I have two roll aways filled with tools. One rool away has all my
wrenches, air tools, screw drivers, sockest, files, punches, and every
onther thing imagionable. The other rool away has all my micrometers,
bore gages, dial calipers, dial indicators, and machinests stuff for my
machine tools. Hell I would have to have I have a 1956 ford 2 1/2 ton
truck (GVW 18,000) lbs with manufactured bed that has all kinds of bins,
and containers for fuel, grease, oil, oxy gas welding, air compressor,
Electric arc welding and my tool set. Hell there is even a 2 ton crane
on the thing. It has hydraulic stablizer bars that fold out to raise
the rear end off the ground when using the crane.
Jim in Ore.
Drake Damerau
<SNIPED>
><snipped>
>>
>> Craftsman are not top quality tools, though their return policy is
>> great. The better brands are Snap-On, Proto (not Proto Challanger),
>> K-D/Easco, and maybe S-K.
>>
<lots more sniped>
I am a metallurgist for the Danaher corporation.
Danaher makes all the sockets for :
Craftsman, Easco, Matco, Proto, Allen Wrench, Napa, and K-D.
We also own Jacobs Chuck , Holochrome and a bunch more.
ALL the sockets (of a given size) are made from the same wire, on the
same header, on the same day. All of the sockets will go through the same
machine for rolling the name on the side. We put the Craftsman name on
50,000 sockets, stop the machine, put in the Easco name die, then do
50,000 more. Stop the machine and change the name again.
My point is there is NO DIFFERENCE between any of these sockets,
in any way, except for the name.The price difference is due to overhead,
advertising and stuff like that.
Go out and get a set of six point sockets of the cheapest brand listed
above, and you will have an excellent set of sockets.
As a foot note, all of these sockets (and other hand tools made from wire)
are made of SAE 4027. The only reason is due to the advertised "Alloy
Steel".
I am presently experimenting with SAE 10B22 and a "Home Made" alloy.
Drake Damerau
Patton Turner
"Drake Damerau" <monel*nospam*@sprynet.com> wrote:
> <SNIPED>
>><snipped>
>>>
>>> Craftsman are not top quality tools, though their return policy is
>>> great. The better brands are Snap-On, Proto (not Proto Challanger),
>>> K-D/Easco, and maybe S-K.
>>>
><lots more sniped>
>I am a metallurgist for the Danaher corporation.
>Danaher makes all the sockets for :
>Craftsman, Easco, Matco, Proto, Allen Wrench, Napa, and K-D.
>We also own Jacobs Chuck , Holochrome and a bunch more.
> ALL the sockets (of a given size) are made from the same wire, on the
>same header, on the same day. All of the sockets will go through the same
>machine for rolling the name on the side. We put the Craftsman name on
>50,000 sockets, stop the machine, put in the Easco name die, then do
>50,000 more. Stop the machine and change the name again.
>My point is there is NO DIFFERENCE between any of these sockets,
>in any way, except for the name.The price difference is due to overhead,
>advertising and stuff like that.
I ran some tests with 3/4" (I think, it could have been 7/8) deep
well 3/8" sockets and got more failures with the craftsmans than any
other brand. Proto held up the best. We didn't test Snap-On as it
was felt their Flank drive was going to be the best, but the price was
too high. We did not test Proto Challanger (cheaper version of
Proto).
My own experience says craftsman adj wrenches, plires and ratchets
don't hold up as well. We I was working in utility construction we
always kept a couple of rebuild kits for the craftsman ratchets on the
truck. I can also state with certainty that their cutters on their
linesman plires do not hold up as well as as other manufacturers.
(Klein D2000 series are the best by far). Most of the craftsman
plires I own have a damaged grip. Craftsman used some sort of
textured plastic that didn't hold up as well. Never had this problem
with Snap-On, S-K, Klein or channellock. It kind of a minor point
unless you use them on phone lines wiht 90 VAC ringing or for cutting
open wire on poles (static buildup)- Did I mention that I'm a
telecommunications Engineer? Looking in my tool box, the craftsman
adj wrenches have more play in them than Protos, but about the same as
a NAPA wrench (the NAPA is not made on the same tooling as either the
Craftsman or Proto) If I had to chose, Snap-On is the hands down
favorite as they feature a much wider area for hand contact (just on
one side, helps insure the wrench is used properly), and a smother
finish for easy cleaning).
Craftsman locking pliers are inferior as they fail to weld the folded
stock before tapping it and the whole wrench wants to stick. Peterson
(manufacturer of ViceGrips) makes a much smother linkage and welds the
frame before tapping it. Snap-On either copies this design or buys
them from Peterson (I suspect the latter)
I have also been told by a government aircraft mechanic that they are
not allowed to use craftsman tools for torqueing fasteners, they have
a long list of qualified tool manufacturers, but craftsman isn't on
it.
The only Allen sockets I have used are hex sockets in 1/2 and 3/8"
drive and they are far superior to craftsman. Craftsman uses a C clip
retainer and two sizes of universal sockets, Allen broaches each
socket to fit a particular size piece of hex stock , and then secures
the stock with a roll pin (might be different on the smaller sizes).
I have purchased 5 torque wrenches (2 craftsman, 2 proto, and 1 snap
on) The craftsman microtorque 1/2" model fall apart (the nut
retaining the handle wasn't tightened) rendering it useless until it
could be recalibrated, the 3/8" microtorque failed recalibration after
less than 100 torque cycles. Both of the Proto units have never had
to be touched when recalibrated. The Snap-On unit is mine personally,
but has never had a problem.
One company had to return 48 or so craftsman cold chisels due to a
heat treat problem that caused them to break (for some reason they
chrome plate their cold chisels, in general this is a bad idea for
something subjected to impact loads due to hydrogen embrittlement).
This had never happened before with other brands and didn't for the
next 4 years either.
As far as fixed wrenches, I've never broken a craftsman, but I much
prefer the polished finish on KD/Easco/NAPA and SnapOn. It makes the
tools much easier to clean
I hope this doesn't sound like I'm down on craftsman, I think they are
a best buy for tools, but make no mistake about it, you get more for
the extra money with other brands.
Pat
Rich Pierson
don wrote:
>
> Also, you are less likely to round a bolt head, etc., with quality tools.
>
> And quality wrenches are often more compact and fit into tighter spaces
> better then cheaper wrenches, while being just as strong.
>
> I have never regretted buying good quality tools . . .
>
> Don
>
> : discussion on top quality tools vs. a med. quality w/ a life time warrenty....
> : if you're out 4 wheeling and you need to do a field repair and the wrench
> : warrenty doesn't do any good...buy the good stuff in tools just in case the
> : store is inaccessable (whatever reason) search the flea mkts. and garage sales
> : for the top
> : brands (craftsman, snap-on, etc) good deals on used ones sometimes...never
> : asked for original reciept on craftsman tools in the rare occassion i've needed
> : to get replacement
Being a motorcyclist for alot of years [started with a NEW hodaka 80
ace]
I have some sensitivity to cheap tools and I have the dinged up knuckles
to prove it :-)
If size is important in the way of box/open wrenches then
get the compact or shorty version of them, all the manufacturers
make them now [Craftsman just packaged a set in sae/met].
They also make in addition to "shorty" a "slim" set. These
wrenches are about 50% thinner than a normal wrench, again all
the manufacturers make them. aaaahh I guess I should define "Normal"
manufacturers, these are Snap-On, MAC, Craftsman, S-K, Husky. I
stay away from others but it took me a few years of failures and
long dark walks to find this out. Some of these tools can be
found in yard/garage sales and possibly in a going out of
business sale. Though I know very few mechanics that would
turn loose their 3/8" snap on socket set and associated basic
wrenches, even under chap 11 or whatever "bust" chapter covers it.
When I get a new MC I pull the tool kit and separate out the
specialty tools, those go back in, then I remove the cheap
box wrenches and slip in "slims", cheap screwdriver gets replaced
with an interchangeable bit one [with Allen's] and then I put
it back together. The 3/8" socket set w/breakerbar and 8" extension
can be a challenge but I usually find a place for them somewhere
under the covers. In my cherokee I have a big rubbermaid foot
locker [locking kind] that has tools, etc.] and can be
removed and lashed down on the roof if need be. Tools in that
are carried in a cordovan zipper bag that I used in field
service years ago, wrenches are in a roll up bag. I also carry
a tire repair kit with plugs, 12v compressor [takes 20 min to
blow up a 15"x225 tire], maps, field jacket, issue winter cap,
issue gloves, knee and elbow pads, sunglasses, M-2 compass, anti
freeze, oil, spare serpentine fan belt.
I have used the tire patch kit a few times and it has saved
pulling the spare out on my S10. I also used it once on my
trooper when I got TWO flats. The motorcycle also has a
compressor that is used by removing a spark plug and
screwing in a compressor though it does make a rather
explosive mixture in the tire it does work.
I have not found all the nooks and crannies in my new
jeep yet [always dark when I go to work and dark when I
get home] but I see some possibilities.
--
*************************************************
Richard J. Pierson
fi...@ptd.net
My opinions are my own as are my mistakes....
*************************************************
Patton Turner
Rich Pierson <fi...@lucent.com> wrote:
>Being a motorcyclist for alot of years [started with a NEW hodaka 80
>ace]
>I have some sensitivity to cheap tools and I have the dinged up knuckles
>to prove it :-)
>If size is important in the way of box/open wrenches then
>get the compact or shorty version of them, all the manufacturers
>make them now [Craftsman just packaged a set in sae/met].
>They also make in addition to "shorty" a "slim" set. These
>wrenches are about 50% thinner than a normal wrench, again all
The slim (some call them tappet wrenches) wrenchs are more likely to
break or slip that the full size ones, but are nice to have (or if
thats all you have room for). The compact wrenches usually have a
full sized engagement on the nut or bolt, with a somewhat weaker
handle, and are no more likely to round off the head.
Fuses and headlaight bulbs are nice to have in adition to a
bright-retroreflective vest when you are working on the vehicle on the
side of the road.
Pat