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Why buy a 7.62 x 39 caliber rifle?

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Strider

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Jun 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/19/00
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Delcomico wrote:
>
> It seems high on everybody's shopping list to buy a 7.62 x 39 SKS or AKM or
> some sort of similar weapon. I have one of my usual questions:
>
> Why?
>
> Now if the reason is "Because it has low recoil and I think it's a great
> all-around intermediate-power cartridge that's fun to shoot" I can see that.
> But the answer
> I seem to be hearing most often is "Because when the SHTF, 7.62 x 39mm ammo
> will have widespread availability."
>
> IMHO, when the 'SHTF' we will be at war with either (a) Communist soldiers, or
> (b) UN blue helmets. If said troops have widespread 7.62 x 39 ammo, are we
> talking about TRADING with them?
>
>
>
> Kev

My guess they are popular for the same reasons I got both of
mine.

(1) The SKS and AK are both robust, trouble free, and reliable,
and moderately accurate.
(2) They were relatively inexpensive when I got mine
(3) Ammo is NOW cheap and plentiful. I have 1,000's at very low
cost. All my friends have 1,000's stored up. There are millions
of rounds of 7.62x39's in private hand in America now, a quantity
rivaled only by the .22 LR and maybe the 12 gauge shotgun.
(4) The round is quite powerful enough for hunting up to deer
sized animals at under 300 yards. Here in East Tennessee, the SKS
has largely replaced the 30-30 as the poor man's deer rifle.

NATO invasion had nothing to do with my decision to purchase the
7.62x39 but rumors that the FMJ would penetrate the bio-armor of
invading hoards of alien lizard men from Alph Centari helped me
make my final decision.

Strider
--
"Did you exchange a walk on part in a war for a lead role in a
cage?" - Pink Floyd

Visit my home page at:
http://www.usit.com/strider/homepage/enter.htm
AOL Instant Messenger Screen Name: Strider762
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Delcomico

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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KAY U FISH

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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better answer why not buy one.

The Doctor

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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Strider <str...@usit.net> wrote:


>invading hoards of alien lizard men from Alph Centari helped me
>make my final decision.
>
>Strider

There are no lizard men in Aplha Centair. At least not nativly.

The Doctor

"And isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway? I mean
all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when
you're good and crazy, oooh oooh oooh, the sky is the
limit!"-The Tick

Gunner

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:45:28 -0400, Strider <str...@usit.net> wrote:

>(4) The round is quite powerful enough for hunting up to deer
>sized animals at under 300 yards. Here in East Tennessee, the SKS
>has largely replaced the 30-30 as the poor man's deer rifle.

Tennessee... hummm an old girl friend is a nurse out there... now that Im
involuntarily single... it might be time to go look up Nan....

geeze.. probably married, fat and ugly.... but then...
Anyone who cannot cope with weapons is not fully human. At best he
is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not
make messes in the house.

Modified by persons unknown from a quote by:

-- Lazarus Long --

ryan

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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Delcomico wrote:

> It seems high on everybody's shopping list to buy a 7.62 x 39 SKS or AKM or
> some sort of similar weapon. I have one of my usual questions:
>
> Why?

Well, they are cheap and reliable. I got a Romanian AK-47 for $350. It's decent
and I have never had a problem. The magazines are also decent. Another reason is
that ammo is cheap. 1,000 rounds cost me only $75 at the last gun show. Since I
finally have some money saved, the next gun show that comes around I am picking up
around another 2,000.

> I seem to be hearing most often is "Because when the SHTF, 7.62 x 39mm ammo
> will have widespread availability."

True due to tons of people that have the round.

> IMHO, when the 'SHTF' we will be at war with either (a) Communist soldiers, or
> (b) UN blue helmets. If said troops have widespread 7.62 x 39 ammo, are we
> talking about TRADING with them?

No trading, but taking from them. If this ever were to happen, chances are if
some people did win against a small group of these guys, they would of course be
able to take the equipment these troops have. However, it would take more than a
rifle to win such a war. You would need some rockets and land mines, etc.


ryan

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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Strider wrote:

> NATO invasion had nothing to do with my decision to purchase the
> 7.62x39 but rumors that the FMJ would penetrate the bio-armor of

> invading hoards of alien lizard men from Alph Centari helped me
> make my final decision.

Same here.


Delcomico

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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>(1) The SKS and AK are both robust, trouble free, and reliable,
>and moderately accurate.
>(2) They were relatively inexpensive when I got mine
>(3) Ammo is NOW cheap and plentiful. I have 1,000's at very low
>cost. All my friends have 1,000's stored up. There are millions
>of rounds of 7.62x39's in private hand in America now, a quantity
>rivaled only by the .22 LR and maybe the 12 gauge shotgun.
>(4) The round is quite powerful enough for hunting up to deer
>sized animals at under 300 yards. Here in East Tennessee, the SKS
>has largely replaced the 30-30 as the poor man's deer rifle.

Now I can see that--that makes sense.

Plus the bio-armor thing, of course.

Kev

Delcomico

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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>> It seems high on everybody's shopping list to buy a 7.62 x 39 SKS or AKM or
>> some sort of similar weapon. I have one of my usual questions:
>>
>> Why?
>
>Well, they are cheap and reliable. I got a Romanian AK-47 for $350. It's
>decent
>and I have never had a problem. The magazines are also decent. Another
>reason is
>that ammo is cheap. 1,000 rounds cost me only $75 at the last gun show.
>Since I
>finally have some money saved, the next gun show that comes around I am
>picking up
>around another 2,000.


Well that seems like a darn good reason.
In fact, you made me want one.


>
>> IMHO, when the 'SHTF' we will be at war with either (a) Communist soldiers,
>or
>> (b) UN blue helmets. If said troops have widespread 7.62 x 39 ammo, are we
>> talking about TRADING with them?
>
>No trading, but taking from them. If this ever were to happen, chances are
>if
>some people did win against a small group of these guys, they would of course
>be
>able to take the equipment these troops have. However, it would take more
>than a
>rifle to win such a war. You would need some rockets and land mines, etc.

Actually I think riflery alone--plus the occasional stolen diesel tank here or
there--could win such a war. I feel that high explosives are overrated.

But my point is that--unless the SKS you're using now is a sniper model or
something with exceptional handling--
why not pry both gun AND ammo from their "cold dead fingers", in a future war?
Given the choice between using a box of stolen ammo with an SKS or a full-auto
AK-47, I'd pick the AK-47.

Kev

Noah Simoneaux

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On 20 Jun 2000 07:05:45 GMT, delc...@aol.com (Delcomico) wrote:

(snip)

>But my point is that--unless the SKS you're using now is a sniper model or
>something with exceptional handling--
>why not pry both gun AND ammo from their "cold dead fingers", in a future war?
>Given the choice between using a box of stolen ammo with an SKS or a full-auto
>AK-47, I'd pick the AK-47.

Then you'd better pick up cases of stolen ammo rather than boxes.
You'd need them if you survive long enough to shoot much on full auto.

Noah Simoneaux
The fates lead the willing, and drag the unwilling. - Seneca


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Jetrock

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On 20 Jun 2000 02:20:31 GMT, Delcomico <delc...@aol.com> wrote:
>It seems high on everybody's shopping list to buy a 7.62 x 39 SKS or AKM or
>some sort of similar weapon. I have one of my usual questions:
>
>Why?
>
>Now if the reason is "Because it has low recoil and I think it's a great
>all-around intermediate-power cartridge that's fun to shoot" I can see that.

All of the above, plus it's cheap--both the rifle and the ammo. At least
they *were* back when a good SKS could be had for $100-200 or less.

>But the answer


>I seem to be hearing most often is "Because when the SHTF, 7.62 x 39mm ammo
>will have widespread availability."

>IMHO, when the 'SHTF' we will be at war with either (a) Communist soldiers, or
>(b) UN blue helmets. If said troops have widespread 7.62 x 39 ammo, are we
>talking about TRADING with them?

Well, the general assumption is that we'll be shooting them and taking
their ammo. I don't really base my firearms purchases on what I figure I
can scrounge, so I don't worry about such things, plus I consider that
particular SHTF situation a bit less likely than, well, damn near
anything.

Plenty of folks choose 5.56x45mm weapons as their primary firearms for the
same reason, though: they expect the NWO/ATF ninjas to kick in their doors
and want to be able to salvage ammo after they've taken out a few squads
armed with M-16's all by themselves and their Mini-14.

--
--Rev. Jetrock, Events Coordinator,
NORTHERN CALIFORNIA EXPERIMENTAL MUSIC FESTIVAL 2000
Sacramento, CA, September 22-24, 2000
For NF-2000 information, go to http://emrl.com/nf

nobody

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On 20 Jun 2000 01:40:23 -0700, jetrock@REMOVE_ME.emrl.com (Jetrock)
wrote:

>Plenty of folks choose 5.56x45mm weapons as their primary firearms for the
>same reason, though: they expect the NWO/ATF ninjas to kick in their doors
>and want to be able to salvage ammo after they've taken out a few squads
>armed with M-16's all by themselves and their Mini-14.


High explosives are *not* overrated. <g>


--
It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just bombed.

Strider

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:26:03 GMT, The Doctor <doc...@whoever.com>
wrote:

>Strider <str...@usit.net> wrote:
>
>
>>invading hoards of alien lizard men from Alph Centari helped me
>>make my final decision.
>>

>>Strider
>
> There are no lizard men in Aplha Centair. At least not nativly.
>
>The Doctor

That's what they want you to think.

Strider


>
>"And isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway? I mean
>all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when
>you're good and crazy, oooh oooh oooh, the sky is the
>limit!"-The Tick

"Did you exchange a walk on part in a war for a lead role in a cage?" - Pink Floyd
Personal web page:http//www.usit.com/strider/homepage/enter.htm

Strider

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 05:39:12 GMT, gun...@cyberg8t.com (Gunner) wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:45:28 -0400, Strider <str...@usit.net> wrote:
>

>>(4) The round is quite powerful enough for hunting up to deer
>>sized animals at under 300 yards. Here in East Tennessee, the SKS
>>has largely replaced the 30-30 as the poor man's deer rifle.
>

>Tennessee... hummm an old girl friend is a nurse out there... now that Im
>involuntarily single... it might be time to go look up Nan....
>
>geeze.. probably married, fat and ugly.... but then...

You'll never know until you go check her out now will you? >;-)

Email can be a wonderful thing!

Strider

>Anyone who cannot cope with weapons is not fully human. At best he
>is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not
>make messes in the house.
>
>Modified by persons unknown from a quote by:
>
>-- Lazarus Long --

"Did you exchange a walk on part in a war for a lead role in a cage?" - Pink Floyd
Personal web page:http//www.usit.com/strider/homepage/enter.htm

Gunner

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:16:42 -0500, nobody <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On 20 Jun 2000 01:40:23 -0700, jetrock@REMOVE_ME.emrl.com (Jetrock)
>wrote:
>
>>Plenty of folks choose 5.56x45mm weapons as their primary firearms for the
>>same reason, though: they expect the NWO/ATF ninjas to kick in their doors
>>and want to be able to salvage ammo after they've taken out a few squads
>>armed with M-16's all by themselves and their Mini-14.
>
>
>High explosives are *not* overrated. <g>

"There are few problems that may not be solved, by the proper application of
high explosives"
----unknown----


Gunner

Bill Twist

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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Actually, the best reason to buy a 7.62x39mm rifle is that you don't have
one yet....

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out this week's firearms commentary at:
http://www.planettimes.com/features/barrel_twist/index.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------


katm...@webtv.net

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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Delcomico baited me out of my cozy spider hole by asking the
following...

(el snippo poquito)

<IMHO if the SHTF we will be at
war with either (a),Communist
soldiers,or (b) U.N. bluehelmets.


If said troops have widespread

7.62 x 39,are we talking about
TRADING with them?>

A coupla points to address.

1...If and/or when the SHTF.~we~ (whoever that may be) will be at war
with
the...enemy. And yes,we will be TRADING with them. In the same way
enemies have been trading ammo since ammo was invented. Right outta the
muzzles of their respective weapons.
And,as always,the tallyman fills his books with a grisly crimson ink.


[ I know, volumes could be filled with anecdotes about "Bluebellies' and
"Graybacks",trading hardtack at picket,
"GIs" and "Krauts",swapping coffee and chocolates,etc. I'm goin' for a
bigger picture kinda thing. ]

2...WRT the particular adversaries,"Communists...
I guess the PRC is prob'ly issuing 7.62 x 39,but most "Com-Bloc/Warsaw
Pact",went to 5.45 x 39, years ago. (AK74)
Hell,half the Warsaw Pact is now part of NATO. And I believe,are issuing
5.56 NATO. So much for the commies.

Not sayin' they (commies) weren't and will never again be a threat
(were/might be)
..just a reminder that Marx was not the first,nor will he be the
last,threat to "Truth,Justice and The American Way".

2a)...U.N. bluehelmets? LOL Sorry,I picture a bunch of Marin County
Soccer Moms explaining how the the team name was chosen. "Well,we picked
blue because studies have shown the color to have a calming effect.It
tends to cut down on aggressive and competitive behavior.
And helmets save children's lives. And it's really all about the
children,isn't it?

Recomendation for First Phase PsyWarOp:
Compile a list of suitably deragatory/inflammatory
replacement/derivation of the term "bluehelmuts"

Possibles:
"Hell's Mutts" [Demons ~and~ mongrels] (twofer)
"BlueTicks" [ possible negative feedback from LIPs fiercely loyal to the
breed's keen nose,and dulcet tones.]

This can be a totally autonomous op,
with operatives contributing at will.
It's time to crank up the slime machine,remember it's a war.
Killing,dying,bleeding,crying.


Tangential rant mode deactivated;

3)...The central premise behind your question is commonality of ammo.
Stark,brutal terms...can you strip enemy dead of their kit?

If you foresee Type 56 totin PLA human waves.SKS/AKS 76239 would make a
good choice. MLRS and B52 would make a better choice.

3a)...If the Hell's Mutts are purely
euro/nato then two two three is the place to be.
(speakin' logistics,not ballistics...
please,no "my caliber can beat up
your caliber" BS. thank you)

3b)...And of course introduction of more elements to the force will
expand the numbers of calibers in inventory.
762nato for G3s,60s and FN Mags.
etc.

4)...A personal point. I've been reading your,delcomico, posts since you
hitched up with MS. I find them mostly to be thoughtful and rational.
But,and pardon me this slight criticism,but you seem to be more focused
on the TEOTWAWKI scenario of survival. A common trait among some of the
posters here. And again,I'm sorry for singling you out,but there is a
point to this novella. ;)

Point being,the concept of survivalism encompasses so much more than
just bullets and beans. Survivalism is a ~Mind-Set~. It is a way of
life. It's boundaries stretch far beyond firefights,
Mag-Lites,and water-tights.

It's about not chokin' on a burger. It's about not slippin' in the
shower and spillin' your brains down the drain.


Survivalism is about not gettin' tattooed to the front of a semi while
tryin' to change a freeway flat. Survivalism is about not severing your
femoral artery while workin' a chainsaw.

Survivalism is about not being so caught up in the excitement of gettin'
that great deal on 76239 that you walk out of the store...right into the
path of an RTA bus.
Tho I'm sure your buddies at the range will give you one helluva send
off with that case of ammo. I know I sure would. Tho I'd prob'ly keep
some in memorium.
(The rest I'd keep in me cellar.)

If you've stuck with me this far,just gimme a minute or two to close.

A good survivalist keeps many tools in his box.But he always uses self
awareness and self control before he uses self defense. To extend the
metaphor,it's a poor mechanic who blames his tools,but it takes more
than just a hammer and a screwdriver to build a nuclear reactor.
(According to the group FAQ, you also need a 3/8ths" open-end wrench,a
radiator from a '49 or '51,but not a '50! ,Ford pick-up,and two rolls of
duct tape...)


Don't get me wrong,I endorse armed self defense, but I urge you to
exit the " survivalism ONLY AS self defense against physical attack"
box. Reality is the harshest of realms. Threats to life,limb,and
liberty,surround us in our daily lives. We must ~realistically~ assess
and prioritize these threats.

Example: What would be more practical for the average Floridian to keep
in his attic this summer? 47 shitloads of 76239 to provide defense from
Fidel's hordes? Or one axe,one pry-bar,and one heavy ball-peen hammer,to
provide an escape route from the 20ft storm surge pushed up by the
latest Category 4? Of course,a true survivalist will be hundreds of
miles away by the time the storm surge gets there. IOW... he ain't gonna
get caught playin' on the tracks when the 5:15 to Philly is due.
LOL

Be cautious of cars while crossing the street,but don't forget the open
manhole covers either.

Big Picture.

So thank you for allowing me to share your canvas. (And for proving to
me that these threads actually had/have a beginning. I was starting to
believe that all threads just somehow started in the middle. I've
searched in vain for that elusive first subject header. LOL)


Here's to future discussions,


Oh...can you email me the urls to some of your cartoons?
Unfortunately,the ones I've tried to view via links posted here have
poor resolution....webtv...<shrug>


==================================

Survivalism means understanding one simple all encompassing truth. Life
can killya.


KATMANTWO


James E. Burdine

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
combloc isn't using 7.62x39 any more, they have gone to a .22 cal
cartridge much like we use, though not exactly the same.

Delcomico wrote:
>
> It seems high on everybody's shopping list to buy a 7.62 x 39 SKS or AKM or
> some sort of similar weapon. I have one of my usual questions:
>
> Why?
>
> Now if the reason is "Because it has low recoil and I think it's a great
> all-around intermediate-power cartridge that's fun to shoot" I can see that.

> But the answer
> I seem to be hearing most often is "Because when the SHTF, 7.62 x 39mm ammo
> will have widespread availability."
>
> IMHO, when the 'SHTF' we will be at war with either (a) Communist soldiers, or

> (b) UN blue helmets. If said troops have widespread 7.62 x 39 ammo, are we


> talking about TRADING with them?
>
>
>

> Kev

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Maker of fiber slings. Ancient weapons from nylon or hemp. See
http://www.usasn.com/~lbt/burdine.html and
http://www.pipeline.com/~jburdine/index.html for examples of my work.
more information or send SASE to The Fiberworks Armory,
1006 Kingsview ct.:Henderson,Nv. 89015 for my brochure.

James E. Burdine

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
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Best yet MCI sports has a chamber insert that mounts with the help of
locktite that you can use to fire 7.62x39 in a .308 rifle or I believe a
.30-06 as well. So you may have a rifle that you can fire that cheap
fodder in without buying one of those slambangers. Milder recoil, cheap
shooting, good enough for deer at moderate distances, yet can be removed
with a stuck case remover. I do not own or take any monetary gain from
MCI sports, but I do like their products.
jimB

Jetrock wrote:

Bill Boyanton

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
No reason for me to buy one, Been there done that, moved on to better.
7.62x39 is a ho-hum round, cheap yes, but not much redeeming social value
after that. I've got 5.56mm NATO and 7.62 NATO, both of which will out
perform the 7.62x39. Some folks like this round, some don't. I think 5.56
or 7.62 NATO will be much easier to get if TSHTF.
Notes for the below:
a, not likely since most "Communist" nations with are not likely to invade
the US, nuke us maybe but invasion is highly unlikely.
b, Last I check NATO provided the "Teeth" to the UN, they use 5.56 and 7.62
NATO ammo. Not likely ether.

More likely our own Government will be the problem, they use 5.56 and 7.62
NATO not 7.62x39.

Yeah there is a shit load of 7.62x39 ammo out there, but no as much as 5.56
and 7.62 NATO.

Cheap is not always better. My life is worth more then that, I deserve
better, I have better.


Delcomico <delc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000619222031...@ng-cu1.aol.com...


> It seems high on everybody's shopping list to buy a 7.62 x 39 SKS or AKM
or
> some sort of similar weapon. I have one of my usual questions:
>

Jeff Schwartz

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to

"Strider" <str...@usit.net> wrote in message
news:394EDAC8...@usit.net...

>
> NATO invasion had nothing to do with my decision to purchase the
> 7.62x39 but rumors that the FMJ would penetrate the bio-armor of

> invading hoards of alien lizard men from Alph Centari helped me
> make my final decision.
>
> Strider

> --

Really?

5.56 sure doesn't....


Delcomico

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
>High explosives are *not* overrated. <g>
>

I consider them "energy inefficient".

Phil

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
Delcomico wrote:
>
> >(1) The SKS and AK are both robust, trouble free, and reliable,
> >and moderately accurate.
> >(2) They were relatively inexpensive when I got mine
> >(3) Ammo is NOW cheap and plentiful. I have 1,000's at very low
> >cost. All my friends have 1,000's stored up. There are millions
> >of rounds of 7.62x39's in private hand in America now, a quantity
> >rivaled only by the .22 LR and maybe the 12 gauge shotgun.
> >(4) The round is quite powerful enough for hunting up to deer
> >sized animals at under 300 yards. Here in East Tennessee, the SKS
> >has largely replaced the 30-30 as the poor man's deer rifle.
>
> Now I can see that--that makes sense.
>
> Plus the bio-armor thing, of course.

Well, after reading the responses to this thread I have decided the
tossers who come in and insult people here are right. We ARE all bloody
mad!! :o)

Phil

Peace, Bread, Land

Phil

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
Strider wrote:
>
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:26:03 GMT, The Doctor <doc...@whoever.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Strider <str...@usit.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>invading hoards of alien lizard men from Alph Centari helped me
> >>make my final decision.
> >>
> >>Strider
> >
> > There are no lizard men in Aplha Centair. At least not nativly.
> >
> >The Doctor
>
> That's what they want you to think.

Don't be silly Strider. Your feeble attempts will not distract us from
the real danger, the vicious mutant cabbages from the Andromeda galaxy!

Even now they are on their way to enslave humanity and punish us for
millenia of vegicide! If you have any sense you will all give up eating
cabbage now, if you do they might be merciful!

Phil

Peace, Bread, Land

Karl Kleinpaste

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
delc...@aol.com (Delcomico) writes:
>> High explosives are *not* overrated. <g>
>>
> I consider them "energy inefficient".
>
As your nearest real estate agent says: "Location, location, location!"
--
Hit man for hire.

Delcomico

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
>combloc isn't using 7.62x39 any more, they have gone to a .22 cal
>cartridge much like we use, though not exactly the same.
>

What about the Red Chinese infantry? Have they all made that switch? Just
curious. (I'd wager a lot of their combat divisions haven't, but I don't know.)

kev

Delcomico

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to

If I were a coastal Floridian, the first Category 4 survival tool I'd want is a
large airboat in my backyard.

>
>Be cautious of cars while crossing the street,but don't forget the open
>manhole covers either.
>
>Big Picture.
>
>So thank you for allowing me to share your canvas. (And for proving to
>me that these threads actually had/have a beginning. I was starting to
>believe that all threads just somehow started in the middle. I've
>searched in vain for that elusive first subject header. LOL)
>
>
>Here's to future discussions,
>
>
>Oh...can you email me the urls to some of your cartoons?
>Unfortunately,the ones I've tried to view via links posted here have
>poor resolution....webtv...<shrug>
>
>
>==================================
>
>Survivalism means understanding one simple all encompassing truth. Life
>can killya.
>
>
>KATMANTWO
>

Hey, I stuck with you to the end, although I don't have the attention span to
answer all your major points. You're a pretty cool pocket philosopher.

In regard to my warfare mentality, I'm a political guy, so I have a political
approach to survivalism.

I also don't even BEGIN to see Marxism as a 'toothless old threat". That was
last century--post-Reagan. We are now post-Clinton. Thanks to his diligent
efforts,
Communists are more dangerous than ever before.

I can certainly see other threats, though.

My cartoon homepage is:

www.cnsnews.com/cartoon/tuma.asp

You can link to my archives from there, too.

Best,

Kev


Delcomico

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
> I've got 5.56mm NATO and 7.62 NATO, both of which will out
>perform the 7.62x39. Some folks like this round, some don't. I think 5.56
>or 7.62 NATO will be much easier to get if TSHTF.
>Notes for the below:
>a, not likely since most "Communist" nations with are not likely to invade
>the US, nuke us maybe

I'd go so far as to say *Nuke us, definitely* (if given the window of
opportunity).


>but invasion is highly unlikely.

Not likely next month, you mean. Give China a little time to destabilize
Central America, with their Marxist co-conspirators
(the Democrats) and their Trading Buddies
(the Republicans) in power in Washington.


And they are already setting up shop in Panama...why do you suppose that is?

<snip>


>
>More likely our own Government will be the problem, they use 5.56 and 7.62
>NATO not 7.62x39.

I agree with that, although if our own government is the problem it will be
when Marxists are in control (like they are now).
If so, they may help empower the Chicoms
and endanger us with them (again, like they do now), or intentionally push for
a Marxist One World government utilizing the United Nations (like they do now).


Probably all three fecal clumps will hit the rotary wind machine at the same
time. So to speak.

Kev

Karl Kleinpaste

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
katm...@webtv.net writes:
> Survivalism means understanding one simple all encompassing truth.
> Life can killya.

"Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death."
--Miyamoto Musashi, 1645

Jim Cornwall

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to

Delcomico wrote:
>
> >High explosives are *not* overrated. <g>
> >
>
> I consider them "energy inefficient".
>
>

But the fun makes up for the inefficiency...

Jim

Bob G

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 05:39:12 GMT, gun...@cyberg8t.com (Gunner) wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:45:28 -0400, Strider <str...@usit.net> wrote:
>

>>(4) The round is quite powerful enough for hunting up to deer
>>sized animals at under 300 yards. Here in East Tennessee, the SKS
>>has largely replaced the 30-30 as the poor man's deer rifle.
>

>Tennessee... hummm an old girl friend is a nurse out there... now that Im
>involuntarily single... it might be time to go look up Nan....
>
>geeze.. probably married, fat and ugly.... but then...

Gunner,

A suggestion which isn't worth a good piece of asswipe.

When yah were out in the rice paddies, up to your asshole in crappy
water and leeches. Did you pick you closest, most trusted buddies and
teammates ... by whether or not they were pretty and had a nice slim
waist?

Just a thought. PRETTY earns a toss in the rack with me, and I'll
make it good. I've NEVER had a lady say otherwise.

But PRETTY, doesn't even buy my time after I've got my jollies. The
lady damn well better have more than that to offer.

A thought. Yah seem to have thought about the lady. Must be some
reason. If she's married, well, that's it. If she's not ....

Well, what are yah looking for? A trophy? Something to show off? Or
a FRIEND, a PARTNER, a BUDDY? Who just so happens to be female and
sort of cuddly, and warm and much better feeling in bed than that guy
with whiskers?

Make up your mind guy. What are yah looking for? Asking for?

If yah remembered her after this time, I'd at least investigate.
Couldn't hurt.

Guy, I've refused to comment on your personal problems. I certainly
have no basis to know what's happening, or how you feel. I would not
presume. Too many things I can not know.

Some, from my posts, might think I'm sort of a wuss. As I often take
the feminine side of an argument.

But I'm here to tell you, ain't true. I adore my wife, bend over
backwards for her, give her dang near anything she asks.

But .....

I have expectations. I'll forgive a LOT. I expect perfection from no
one.

But .., don't stand by me, don't cover my back .... you're history.

I GIVE ... big time ... and I expect the same. Don't much care for
excuses.

I'm thinking yah ought to at least think about looking up the lady.
Couldn't hurt.

Not saying yah should just abandon the last. That's up to you, don't
know the feelings or history. But you at LEAST need to make something
clear. She should make up her mind. Love her or not, yah still have
expectations. Be your PARTNER or forget it.

Let her know you're sorry if your not up to her expectations. But ...
you have options. "Love yah, Honey, have a nice life ... bye !"

I know that's not easy. But it IS truth. I'll bet yah any amount of
money you wish, you have an easier time finding someone who'll want
you despite the fact you're not perfect ... than SHE will.


A thought, only

Bob


I love my country ! It's the politicians I don't
like or trust.

Default User

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Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
I think it is a fascination with the enemy's weapons.
There also have been many school shootings with this caliber,
and that also creates a fascination.
The availability of ammunition in the US is quite good now.
If I had to choose calibers for a long gun for survival, I would
choose .22 rimfire, and 12 gage. Why? Both versatile, and quite
common ammunition.
Though, the 7.62 x 39 is quite commonly available.
Wishing you the best.

Delcomico wrote in message
<20000619222031...@ng-cu1.aol.com>...

baddog7

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to

Delcomico wrote:

> >High explosives are *not* overrated. <g>
> >
>
> I consider them "energy inefficient".

Have you ever heard of shaped charges?

>
>
>


Oframe45

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
>>Well, after reading the responses to this thread I have decided the
>>tossers who come in and insult people here are right. We ARE all bloody
>>mad!! :o)

>Yes, but happily bloody mad. And knowingly bloody mad. In
>this world, who wants to be thoroughly safe and sane?
>Where's the fun in that?

"If we were not all crazy we would go insane!" Jimmy Buffet

Buckshot

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to

> But my point is that--unless the SKS you're using now is a
sniper model or
> something with exceptional handling--
> why not pry both gun AND ammo from their "cold dead
fingers", in a future war?
> Given the choice between using a box of stolen ammo with
an SKS or a full-auto
> AK-47, I'd pick the AK-47.
>
> Kev
>

Kev,

You use the $65.00 SKS to get the AK-47 (UN shopping club
rifles have the 3 position go switch that you can't buy
without lots of hastles here and now) and now you have a 2nd
firearm to pass down to someone else in your cell.

Buckshot


Buckshot

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Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to

"James E. Burdine" <jbur...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
news:394F950A...@pipeline.com...

> Best yet MCI sports has a chamber insert that mounts with
the help of
> locktite that you can use to fire 7.62x39 in a .308 rifle
or I believe a
> .30-06 as well. So you may have a rifle that you can fire
that cheap
> fodder in without buying one of those slambangers. Milder
recoil, cheap
> shooting, good enough for deer at moderate distances, yet
can be removed
> with a stuck case remover. I do not own or take any
monetary gain from
> MCI sports, but I do like their products.
> jimB
>

Jim B.

This is the worst idea I have ever heard of!

This idea was tried and rejected by the US Government (Navy)
when they were trying to convert .30-06 Garands to 7.62 X 51
NATO. They tended to remove themselves at the most
inconvenient times.

And now you want to do the same thing, and force an oversize
bullet of 0.311" down a 0.308" bore.

Don't go there.

Buckshot


Delcomico

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
> I think it is a fascination with the enemy's weapons.
> There also have been many school shootings with this caliber,
>and that also creates a fascination.
> The availability of ammunition in the US is quite good now.
>If I had to choose calibers for a long gun for survival, I would
>choose .22 rimfire, and 12 gage. Why? Both versatile, and quite
>common ammunition.
> Though, the 7.62 x 39 is quite commonly available.
> Wishing you the best.
>

You bet--that seems pretty logical, as far as ammo availability goes. The folks
in the group just gave me a boatload of good reasons for buying a 7.62x39 that
had nothing to do with ammo availability. But as you point out the most widely
available cartridges on the North American continent will probably always be
the .22 long rifle and the 12 gauge shotgun. If there's a war (of one type or
another) on our own soil,
the .223 and the 9mm would probably be next in terms of availability in
friendly trade.

In unfriendly trade, I still lean toward the
idea of prying both weapon and ammo from the enemy's cold hands.

Kev

rbo...@ticnet.com

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Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to

Which, depending as the case may be, would be 9mm & .223.
M16's & Beretta's. Does the US Military still issue Berettas? ;-)

>Kev


Rick Bowen
May God bless Texas
TSRA Life Member
NRA Member

Rosie a hypocrite? You be the judge.

On April 21, 1999, Kmart Spokesperson Rosie O'Donnell,
on her nationally televised talk show, called for
the arrest and imprisonment of all gun owners.

She said,

"I honestly think - and I am not an expert on
the amendments - I think the only people in
this nation who should be allowed to own guns
are police officers. I don't care if you want
to hunt, I don't care if you think it's your
right. I say 'sorry'. It is 1999, we have had
enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own
a gun and if you do own a gun, I think you
should go to prison."

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment060100b.html

I'm not against anyone having a gun, as long
as it's licensed, registered, and has a
child-safety lock. Anyone who wants
to have one, can. I don't think that gun
owners are the enemy.


STEVEN D. ROUSH

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to

>
> But my point is that--unless the SKS you're using now is a
> sniper model or something with exceptional handling--
> why not pry both gun AND ammo from their "cold dead
> fingers", in a future war?
> Given the choice between using a box of stolen ammo with
> an SKS or a full-auto AK-47, I'd pick the AK-47.
>
> Kev
>

Personally, I would prefer the SKS because I grew up shooting
shotguns and rifles with the "traditional" stock configuration
(ie, no pistol grip) and the SKS handles more naturally for me.
I also like the SKS because the safety is located near the trigger.
I like the SKS because it's _at least_ as reliable and robust
as the Kalishnikov. I like the SKS because it doesn't have a
large magazine protruding from the bottom, to get snagged on
brush or banged on the ground in prone position. I like the
SKS because I don't have to worry about lost or damaged
magazines.
Concerning guerrilla warfare - Che Guevara was adamant about
conserving ammo, and he recommended bolt-action rifles for
inexperienced troops. With its limited magazine capacity, the
SKS would force the shooter to exercise _some_ degree of
"fire discipline". The AK-47 would not.

If I were to capture a machinegun, I might give it to somebody
I didn't like - he will be the enemy's "top priority target"
during the next firefight.


--

Gunner

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
Warning.. the below is quite long, disgusting, personally embarrassing, and a
bit deranged. Read at your own risk. Springer Show scouts need not apply ,
unless the money is real good.


On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:40:26 GMT, sa...@pclink.com (Bob G) wrote:

>But .....
>
>I have expectations. I'll forgive a LOT. I expect perfection from no
>one.
>
>But .., don't stand by me, don't cover my back .... you're history.
>
>I GIVE ... big time ... and I expect the same. Don't much care for
>excuses.
>
>I'm thinking yah ought to at least think about looking up the lady.
>Couldn't hurt.

Last I heard, she has been living with a gent for the last 12 yrs, and has a
daughter by him. I may inquire... but.. if you read below.. you will know why,
I never have or ever will fish in another mans pond.


>
>Not saying yah should just abandon the last. That's up to you, don't
>know the feelings or history. But you at LEAST need to make something
>clear. She should make up her mind. Love her or not, yah still have
>expectations. Be your PARTNER or forget it.
>
>Let her know you're sorry if your not up to her expectations. But ...
>you have options. "Love yah, Honey, have a nice life ... bye !"

Hummm lets get your take on this:

1976 Wife gets bored. Takes credit card, and spends 3 days partying, and meets
new fellow. (Carl Wyatt). Affair lasts 5 months.. at which point she finds she
is pregnant. Husband (me) boots her ass out when finding out she is pregnant
with another mans child, and maxing the credit card out on motel rooms, booze
and room service (He was married, so she paid for the room..or rather, I did)

In her 9th month of pregnancy.. she shows up, belly out to there, and asks to
come home until the baby is born. Two weeks later, I hold her hand in the
delivery room, then sign the birth certificate with my name as the father.

<snip 6 years of financial fiascos and 2 surgerys for the boy...no insurance)

She gets bored again.. has an affair with Carl for 4 months before I find
out. The she has an affair with Al Quatroche for 3 months where she explores
her sexuality, in group sex, bi sex etc. I sit home, baby sitting.
She then apparently tired of all the fun and games (the boy friends got tired
of her and sent her home) and came home declaring undying love. I of course,
take her in.

<snip 7 years of financial fiascos climaxed by 4 surgeries for boy, loss of
kidney to birth defect uncaught by doctors. No insurance)

Year unknown. Wife gets bored once again... Locates and proceeds to have a 5
month affair with ..yes..you got it.. Carl Wyatt again. Now on his third
marraige. This time she chases him so hard his wife finds out. He warns her
off, changes phone numbers etc. She comes home claiming to have seen the
errors of her ways, and professing undying love for me.

Snip more years of financial fiascos, including the loss of a job because she
pissed off a boss of mine. Good job too.

Snip a few more years until 1997, when I start a job, as a traveling service
tech. I told her that I would have to work out of town Monday morning-Friday
evening, but I would do this for a year, and in that time, she would take care
of my books (indipendent contractor) and save enough money so we could move to
the L.A. area, so I could sleep at home every night.
First 4 months.. she did fine.. then got lazy.. and screwed up the books..

Snip 2 yrs of lies about bills, dirty house, fights with the now 22 yr old boy
who was as lazy as his mother, and as unable to handle any responsibilities as
she was.

Snip. to March, 2000 the signs were there again.. like a horse putting his
ears back, I knew something was gonna happen. Asked her girl friend if wife
was having an affair.. GF said no. House was dirty, uncared for, bills
Appeared to be being taken care of. Wife looked me straight in the eyes and
said everything was fine. Made comments that she was disapointed that we had
not yet moved to L.A., as I had not kept my promise to move after the first
year. I pointed out to her.. that she still haddnt kept my books in order, had
not done her part of the bargain, had not even entered my reciepts into the
computer program I had purchased.. for 2 yrs.. and we still couldnt afford to
move, because of her malfeasnce. But if she would work on it. we could maybe
move in a few months or a year.

Snip to May 26, Friday, 10am. I get a phone call from wife. She indicates
there was a letter waiting for me at home and she wouldnt be there when I got
back.. After discussion, she agrees to tell me Monday if she would be coming
back. Found that Girl Friend had offered her a place to stay, and guess what..
she had found Carl Wyatt again.. now single (still married, but seperated),
with house of his own.. She moves to Bakersfield, 45 miles away.

A mutual friend had talked to her, and the wife had NOT indicated that there
was another man... but indicated she was disatified with the marraige. The
suggestion was made by the friend that wife and husband should seek counsling.
And if she didnt want to do that.. she should go away, by herself for 3 days
and decide what she wanted to do. Wife agreed, then spent the 3 days in
boyfriends bed. Just to make an unbiased decision ya know.

Monday, May 29, Memorial Day. wife calls me and tells me she loves me, but
doesnt want to spend the rest of her life with someone she is not in love
with. Tells me where to find the bills, and tells me she only wants her
clothes and china. I fax her an agreement and release of liabilty from this
date and a quit claim on the property. She signs and itts witnessed.

I find part of the bills, and am horrified. Agast.. Big trouble. Son moves out
with his fat, ugly internet girl friend, to a town 80 miles away. No money, no
job.. but one step ahead of the bills. ($745 bill for long distance calls to
North Dakota to other girl friend.. approved by wife, knowing full well they
would be gone when that bill surfaced) Find my books in disarray, and the
computer program with hardcopy of my receipts etc had not had an entry for a
full 30 months.

Tuesday May 30, I have to return to work. She cleans out the rest of her
clothes and raids the bank account. Spending her days at friends house, nights
in Carls bed.

Friday, June 2, I manage during the week, to call all possible creditors.
Whoops! Forclosure on house planned, repo on truck planned, all insurance had
been canceled for months for non payment. Mortgage was 4 months behind, power
had been shut off previous month and restored, but deposit (big! was required)
Answering machine had messages from creditors that I never knew existed.
Credit cards she had, that I never knew about, maxed out, and unpaid for 4
months. Credit card of mine, maxed out and not paid on in 6 months.. lots
more.

Sunday, June 4th. I get a phone call from hospital in Fresno, and one from
wifes best friend that wife had had a heart attack and emergency surgery. I
rush the 145 miles to Fresno, to be greeted by wife, in bed, wired to
machines, with "this doesnt change anything, and its not Carls fault"

later that afternoon, comes a moment of dazzling clarity:
wife lying in bed, uncounsious, looking very fragile, alone, wired to lots of
machines.. and I start to cry, very quietly when I hear:
"knock that shit off, or leave. I dont need it" from my wife as she looks me
straight in the eyes. BING!

During this day....

As I notify all of the next of kin, Im sure to tell each and everyone, the
entire story, starting from 1976. Each is stunned and horrified. Im gratified
that I was given great credit for persiverence, love and great stupidity. by
each family member,,.. including her mother, who somehow was NOT surprised.

Wed May 7th wife is released from hospital, miraculously well, but with
unknown heart damage (thanks for the prayers ALL!) Returns to her girlfriends
home (well her girlfriends brothers home where they both were staying)

May 8th-15 Wife starts smoking again, drinking every afternoon with her
boyfriend Carl, who is now a heavy drinker, spousal abuser (his own words in a
4 hour telephone conversation the day after she is hosptialized), and starts
to play pool on a bars pool league. Pretty fast recovery..
Spends some days at boyfriends house, all nights there.

May15. Brother of girlfriend asks her to leave house. She moves in with
boyfriend. Except for everyother weekend, when Carl has coustidy of his 9yr
old daughter.. wife has to find other place to stay over alternate weekends
then can move back in during the next two weeks. Deep and fulfilling
relationship. In a prior conversation with boyfriend I asked why he had not
visited her in the hospital. He stated it was the husbands job. I then asked
if that was so.. how come he was fucking her.. He coughed spit and hung up the
phone. He had admitted knowing full well she was married in all the previous
occasions over the years, and knowing I knew nothing about them for a long
time. I then suggested he had no honor, and he agreed.

May 16-2000 between the hours of 2am and 6am, persons unknown break into my
truck and remove over $12,000 worth of my personal tools, CNC lathe parts,
tool boxes etc. All out of my pocket btw.
I notify the police for a report, then my boss, whereapon I breakdown and
start to loose it over the phone.

Cried for 45 minutes until the cops showed up. Most of day was a blurr. and I
could feel a breakdown immenent. At this point, from the first day she left,
to the present, I have run the full gamat of denial, guilt, rage, depression,
pain, and had cried myself to sleep every night, as well as lost 15 pounds
because I was forgetting to eat. I missed an exit ramp by 45 miles once.

Saturday, May 17th. I had been set up with a blind date by a mutual friend. My
first date after becoming unexpectedly single. Lady was a school teacher, and
around my age. We agree to meet at a roadhouse, where there was a live band,
and pool tables ( I dont drink but do play pool)

Lady was 4 hours late and arrived half drunk.
2 hours later, her ex-boyfriend and wife show up. A fight breaks out.
2 more hours later, she flinches and says she has to leave.. her ex husband
has just walked in. I follow them out the door, as they both get into a car,
and leave. Leaving me with my mouth hanging open btw... duh?

So much for my first date. and it may be a while before the next one.

Btw. during this time span, I spend each weekend, cleaning the home. I remove
13 bags of garbage, thow out the entire living room furniture, as too vile to
keep, start washing windows that had not been washed in over a year, start
fixing broken cabinets, and crying. Each forgotten item of her clothing, or
each item I had purchased for her over the years, the knicknacks, the doodads,
all bring back memories. Like taking care of personal effects after a death in
the family.
The day she left, she had fed the dogs (6 adults, and 4 pups) (I still wonder
where the money went I gave her to have the original momma spayed went)(and
she and the boy had agreed to find them homes... repeatedly, then another
litter would come )
then let them into the house, and left. I was 11 hours getting home....
not a pretty sight, or smell... so some carpets got pulled up and removed..
another thing to take care of when the money is not so tight.

A good question you may be asking.. why didnt I check on her handling of the
funds over the years. Because when I did, I found problems, got them squared
away, and she would tearfully promise to never screw up again. Over the last
couple years, it was easier to ignore the problems, the dirt, the mess, then
come home after a week on the road, and fight. Some of you married guys know
exactly what Im talking about.

Why did I put up with this shit for so long? Because, stupid as it sounds, and
for all my lack of tolorence for other bad things, I loved my wife with my
heart and soul.. Wierd huh. Some of you married guys know what Im talking
about. Love makes one stupid, and blind.

I have not had a vacation in 11 yrs, I have missed about 3 days of work in all
those years. I have not seen a paycheck in the last 6. She handled the money..
ah huh... I never ever stopped loving her, I never ever stopped trying to make
a home and a living for her and the boy. For the last 2.5 yrs, I spend my
nights during the week in 20' travel trailer (where Im posting this from),
eating the cheapest food possible (love those 99c stores) so as to make sure
my family was fed, the stock was fed, and a good home was made for them.

I would come home on the weekends, and work all weekend, maintaining,
gardening, taking care of the stuff they never did. then I would go back to
L.A (3 hour drive each way) and do it again.

Why did she leave this time? Because I was "ignoring her, for years" and didnt
pay her enough attention.
Possibly true.. I was simply too damned tired to go dancing every Sat night,
and too pissed to be warm and cuddly every waking moment I wasnt fighting with
her or the boy, who btw... is exactly like her.
I have a machine shop at home.. my getaway.. "and I spent too much time
playing with the machines"
I "spent too much time on the computer".. which if you check the post times
was generally long after she went to bed.

She says, she ruined the finances.. "subconsiously because she was mad at me"

Ah huh....

Well, she left because:
1. Her boyfriend became available
2. She was bored
3. She had gotten tired of not being able to afford a new car every year
4. She is 45 and hitting the point where her looks were going.
5. She has a weakness in her soul, in her personality, where she cannot admit
to any mistakes, or wants to handle any responsibiltys, and they were crowding
her again.

She walked right out of our marraige, into a new life, new lover, new friends,
no responsibilites, no one to critize her actions (or lack of)..no baggage, to
a sugar daddy who makes LOTS more money than me.
The heart attack gave her something to whine about and get pity.. (people are
already tired of that... )

So to make a long story short Bob.. do you think I have any options here?
Think I should make the attempt to woo her back from her boyfriend?
What would you do?

ROFLMAO! He is welcome to her.. and I know.. she will queer that before long,
because he doenst have the patience, or the interest, or the love to put up
with her shit for very long.

That, my friends, is why you havent seen much of me until lately. Interesting
Times, as the curse says.

Now you have seen me, in all my glory, warts wrinkles, zits and all. My soul
and my life bared before my friends and detractors. Any think that I am hiding
something? Mafessence on my part? Id be glad to give you the email addys of
both her friends and mine for outside verification. There is LOTs I never
touched on.. and as this is VERY OT, probably best not.

Well. then. I guess I win the Grand Prize for Stubborness, and the Booby Prize
for Stupidity. I do find it interesting that all her girlfriends now consider
me a desireable item.. and tested husband material.. for some reason.

Bob, you asked what was I looking for? And gave me a dressing down for wanting
a trophy woman.... lol...
<snip 5 minutes of hysterical laughter>

Bob.. at the moment, I do not want anything other than a warm, cuddly boink
buddy, who will ignore the occasional crying jags, and the rock kicking, and
the ocassional hysterical laughter (its been over 5 weeks without sex..
gaaaaa!) and no I will not pay for it.. not since 73' .

Someday.. I would like, maybe.. down the road, to find a warm, over sexed,
lady, with few inhibitions, multiorgasmic, who is trustworthy, kind,
warmhearted, smart, has common sense, a love for animals, likes the outdoors,
likes being at home, likes to party, but loves to snuggle in front of a fire
place, She can be short, tall (not fat though...sorry) white, black, brown,
yellow, green, relilgiouis or a pagan.

Pretty, or handsome, or homely,

But she must be loyal, trustworthy and never never ever tell a lie. She must
walk besides me, not ahead, or behind. She must be a stayer, not a self
centered weak quitter.

Do I want too much? Am I being overly picky? Are my standards too high?
Am I asking too much?

Oh.. one last thing.
She must love me,, warts, wrinkles, thinning hair, zippers and all.

Gunner

"You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some
higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because
they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged."
-Michael Shirley

Jim String

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
In article <3950614...@news.uia.net>, Gunner wrote:
>Warning.. the below is quite long, disgusting, personally embarrassing, and a
>bit deranged. Read at your own risk. Springer Show scouts need not apply ,
>unless the money is real good.

<snip>

You are a good man Gunner.

Oddly enough, this is a very relevant topic for m.s. There's nothing that
can screw you up as badly as a relationship or marriage going bad, nothing
that can screw your head up so thoroughly.

What I would suggest is to take some time for yourself, don't _even_ think
about another relationship until you've had enough time to stabilize and
keep your brain from banging back and forth between your ears.

Not that you should become a hermit or anything, dating is actually quite
theraputic, I'm doing the same thing right now. Nothing wrong with going
out with a lady for dinner and such, the more the better. But the idea
is to not get wrapped up in another relationship right away, as long as
you make this clear I've never met a lady who had any objection, heck,
they're doing the same thing. You just make it clear upfront.

Date a _lot_. As men we are suckers, believing the first bitch who comes
along spouting the right phrases. We are incredibly stupid, this also is
an m.s. subject. Maybe the ladies can chime in with their observations,
though we probably won't like it a bit. ;-)

Best,
Jim

Gunner

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
On 21 Jun 2000 13:00:59 GMT, pla...@not.replyable.com (Jim String) wrote:

>In article <3950614...@news.uia.net>, Gunner wrote:

>>Warning.. the below is quite long, disgusting, personally embarrassing, and a
>>bit deranged. Read at your own risk. Springer Show scouts need not apply ,
>>unless the money is real good.
>

><snip>
>
Oddly enough... this response shows up before my post does.. wierd


>You are a good man Gunner.

There is, according to the ex... some question there.... :)


>
>Oddly enough, this is a very relevant topic for m.s. There's nothing that
>can screw you up as badly as a relationship or marriage going bad, nothing
>that can screw your head up so thoroughly.

That is largely... why I posted it...that and a bit of Therapy....


>
>What I would suggest is to take some time for yourself, don't _even_ think
>about another relationship until you've had enough time to stabilize and
>keep your brain from banging back and forth between your ears.
>

You mean that happens? Really? How long does it take? The old gray matter
feels rather like a clapper in a clarion... then there is hope. <G>

As I indicted..somewhere in the spew... was, I simply want.. a cuddly boink
buddy. I need it, and owe it to myself. Finding one is difficult. I am not
ready for a another wife, a mommy, a live in, etc etc etc...

Unfortunatly.. so far, all I have managed to run across are :

tweakers
drunks
Crazy women
Crazy married women
married women whom want to cheat
married women whom are included in All Of The Above

None of the above have any interest to me...Folks with bigger problems than
mine are really not on my list of desireable candidates... and years ago I
made it a life long vow to never ever "fish in another mans pond".. after
having it done to me for so long. Unfortunatly... my work, and job and living
locations put a serious crimp on a social life, not to mention a serious lack
of choices...and where I work, there are lots of Latinas.. but the language
barrier is large.. and they are very consious of it.... not that it bothers
me.. but does seem to bother them.. and frankly, many see me as a Legal
Resident lolly pop.

So.. its interesting.. but.. though I have the odd " moment" Im dealing with
it... one minute at a time.

Thanks for the kind words though.

Gunner

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:43:53 GMT, gun...@cyberg8t.com (Gunner) wrote:

>On 21 Jun 2000 13:00:59 GMT, pla...@not.replyable.com (Jim String) wrote:
>
>>In article <3950614...@news.uia.net>, Gunner wrote:

>>>Warning.. the below is quite long, disgusting, personally embarrassing, and a
>>>bit deranged. Read at your own risk. Springer Show scouts need not apply ,
>>>unless the money is real good.
>>

I do not know whether to be embarrassed, or what.. I just reread my own post..
and I guess I should apologize to the group for it.. but yesterday was a very
very long and rough day, work wise, emotionally wise, and you will note I
wrote it long into Odarkthirty...after lying in the sack unable to sleep for
hours. Sorry its so long, and rambling...but..thats sorta been my thought
processes lately for some reason. It does provide a bit of catharsis however.
Closure...one day at a time... but by that standard... I should be fine by
2018.
I do stand on the contents, and it is accurate... but... no wonder my fingers
are sore this morning. :)

Bob G

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:49:23 GMT, gun...@cyberg8t.com (Gunner) wrote:

>Last I heard, she has been living with a gent for the last 12 yrs, and has a
>daughter by him. I may inquire... but.. if you read below.. you will know why,
>I never have or ever will fish in another mans pond.

Didn't suggest you do, Gunner.

"Must be some reason. If she's married, well, that's it. If she's
not .... "

Is what I posted. I'd consider shacked up as the same as married,
even if they weren't legally married.

I don't chase married ladies, or even ladies who are currently dating
someone else, unless the gals boyfriend knows she's seeing others and
is okay with that. Don't now, didn't when young and single. 100%
against my beliefs to step in between a couple, unless invited by
BOTH. Nor will I participate in lies, sneaking around behind
another's back, etc. Not gonna happen, far as I'm concerned. Don't
care who the gal is, how good looking or what she's offering.

>Hummm lets get your take on this:
>
>1976 Wife gets bored. Takes credit card, and spends 3 days partying, and meets
>new fellow. (Carl Wyatt). Affair lasts 5 months.. at which point she finds she
>is pregnant. Husband (me) boots her ass out when finding out she is pregnant
>with another mans child, and maxing the credit card out on motel rooms, booze
>and room service (He was married, so she paid for the room..or rather, I did)

snipped .....

<Sigh> Gunner, you're a better man than I. I say than honestly. You
have my respect. Of course, I only have YOUR side of the story. But
I doubt if there is anything she could say that'd change my opinion.

Yah hung in there, you did the right thing, did your best. Put up
with a lot of pure CRAP.

Personally, wouldn't care what her side of the argument would be.
Sure, you would not have been a perfect hubby, would have faults, all
of us do.

Irregardless, you kept at it, trying, doing your part, etc. Even if
you have faults not mentioned ... doesn't matter. She OWED you better
than what she gave you. PERIOD.

After all you did, all you put up with, all the times yah forgave and
took her back .... even if she could not stand the ground you stand on
... she owed you at least honesty. If nothing else than, 'Mike,
sorry, I can't do it. Can't handle it with you, I want a divorce.'
Clean break, instead of stringing you along and using you.

And that's what she did, used you.

Okay, maybe you weren't a charm. I haven't a clue. That changes
nothing. Two spouses owe each other equally. She owed you as much as
what you gave to her. End of debate. From what I see of your post,
she took far more than she gave. Plainly stated she shamelessly
ripped you off.

<Sigh> As I said, you're a better man than I.

I've been married 28 yrs. Of course our marriage has not been
'perfect' and neither wife nor I are perfect people. We most
certainly each have faults and weaknesses. And have had our
difficulties. Some serious ones from time to time.

An affair? Well, if you're really interested she had an affair once.

As I've stated before, our covenent with each other does not
necessarily exclude outside sex. Agreed upon before we married. I was
a sailor, gone long times. I did not feel I could honestly tell her I
would not ever step out on her when gone 6 or 9 or 12 months at a
time. Geez, I was always getting offers. Not talking just
prostitutes. Months without a woman, one in front of me wishing to
bed me with no strings attached? Knew I might well take such offer.

But I could not lie to my wife to be. Would not. Told her outright
of my concern.

Ladies, this may not make sense to you, most guys will understand what
I'm saying.

Simple fact, loved her with all my heart, but months away from her ...
temptation might be way too strong for me to be sure I'd resist.

Wanted her to know, before we married. Wanted to marry her with all
my heart, but would rather she walk away ... dump me ... than lie to
this woman I loved.

As it worked. She thought long, then agreed. With the understanding,
sex only, no strings attached, no romance, etc. I returned that the
same applied to her. If she stepped out while I was gone those times,
I understood, same conditions applied.

Did I? Yep. I won't lie. I didn't go out often, didn't chase. But
time to time I got a little. Turned down a lot. Told her about it.

Did she? I NEVER asked. Have reason to know she did, not often, but
did. Had a nosey relative try to 'snitch' on her to me. I told
relative to kindly mind own business.

But every time I came home she was waiting, ready and happy for me to
be back. So? She'd boffed someone else. So what? She'd been
discrete, safe, caught nothing, didn't come up pregnant, lived u to
our agreement and her heart was all mine.

Whether others agree or not, according to our covenent, she had not
'cheated'. Neither had I. Women I had knew it was just sex, I made
that clear up front. I don't lie to people.

The affair was once when she started having feelings for another. Not
someone she'd had sex with when I was gone for 6 months to a year.

I was not faultless. Fact was, I'd been neglecting her. Too much
time at other things, extra work and so forth. Took sex for granted.
Fact is, she has orgasms when we have sex, 99% of the time. Yes,
fact, not brag. I know what I'm doing. BUT ... I'd let things get
mechanical, matter of fact, etc.

I was having sex with her, good sex .... but I wasn't really 'Making
Love'. And I wasn't doing the other little things. Listening to her
when she wanted to talk. At least some times wining and dining and
romancing her, etc.

She worked with other guy, they started having lunch together. Other
guy was a romantic at heart, good talker, better listener. And he
PAID ATTENTION to her. Did little things. Out shopping, saw a little
bell, wife collects bells, that he thought she'd like. Bought it and
gave it to her. One day her feet sore, he spent their lunch break
rubbing her feet. So on and so forth.

Neither intended orginally anything to happen. Fact was, I knew the
guy, we were friends.

Had to go out of town for a couple days. Wife to be alone. She had
planned a steak dinner for us on that Friday, had the steaks. But
then, last moment, I was notified I had to go elsewhere for a couple
days on business. She mentioned disappointment about nice dinner she
had planned. I suggested maybe she invite the guy, have dinner with
him. He single, a lousy cook, etc. She did, they had wine .... well,
things went from there.

Both feeling guilty, but hearts going pitter-pat, feelings of love,
romance, etc. They started seeing each other behind my back.

(If yah guys wonder, later she told me the guy wasn't actually very
good in bed, pretty lousy, actually. But ... that wasn't the point.
He was filling a void of need she had that I'd been neglecting. This
is something the guys might not understand. But I'm sure the ladies
will.)

Anyway, I didn't know or suspect. Probably ignored clues. After all,
I trusted her completely. After all, we'd agreed about the _other_
sex thing. She had no reason to lie to me. Heck, if she'd just had
the hots for someone, felt I was not providing her sexual needs, she
could openly talk to me.

BUT ... by our covenent, she WAS cheating. I presume she was hiding
any clues.

However, both she and he, after a time, couple months, both became so
guilt ridden they could not continue.

One night she invited him over. We all sitting, he started 'Bob, I
gotta tell you something .....' He and she told me all, both in
tears.

<Sigh> Gotta tell you, felt my whole world collapsing. I've been
beat, physically, so bad I was hospitalized. Pain I felt when I heard
the truth made the other pain as if nothing. Rather be shot.
Contemplated suicide. Etc.

Took some time before I could even talk or think. The guy was
miserable, too, saying 'Will you just beat the cap outta me Bob?
Please, I deserve anything you want to do.' Wife saying the same.

Finally collected self, told wife, 'If he makes you happier than I.
I'll release you, I won't fight the divorce. You can have everything
except my clothes and tools.'

Truth, to me, at that time I still loved her. Dearly. But I wasn't
gonna make her stay if she was happier with him. Did not want to tear
her apart, loved her too much. BUT .... no, I was not willing to
share her heart.

The sex I plain dismissed in my mind. Givva rip ! Very minor, almost
nonexistant side issue. To MY mind. Heck, if she had a good lust up
for him and told me I would have said 'Go for it.'

But ... she'd lied to me. She was supposed to me my wife, my partner,
my most trusted person, my best friend, etc etc etc. She'd violated
that trust and it just ripped my heart out. Gad, I wanted to die then
and there.

Much tears and agony. She told me she was honestly torn between us.
I understood that. She was being honest ... now ... and talking from
her heart.

I told her 'Decide. You must ! You know I love you. And that I
don't care about the sex. But I will NOT share YOU, you heart. It's
either all his .... or all mine.' Ohhh, I got angry and was not
talking very nice for a while. Take sex out of it ... she'd pledged
all else to me and I to her. Heart and soul. This was or covenent
and promise to each other. What I expected ... demanded. Or the
marriage was a sham.

Skip some ranting and raving on my part, many tears on everyone's
part, etc.

At one point I left, to walk, to give them time to think, talk,
whatever. Ended up out back smashing boards on a shed. Had to
release emotion somehow.

Came back. No, I was not scaring them with my anger. Both know me, I
don't hit unless attacked physically. Might smash boards and such.
That's it.

Wife asked if we could try again? Could I forgive? Honestly said
that yes, she loved him. But I also. And she was my wife. Who'd
screwed up, but wanted to try again. He also wanted her to try to be
one with me. Loved her, said so. But did not feel right stabbing me
as he was. Not the way he wanted to get a wife of his own, wouldn't
feel right.

I forced calm in self and told her to carefully consider. I would
absolutely give her an easy divorce, give her home, belongings,
everything. Let her be with him, with my blessings. It'd hurt, but
I'd do it.

BUT ... she should be absolutely sure, if she decided on me, 'I'll
forgive this time, but I will not tolerate cheating like that. All or
nothing. I take nothing less, expect nothing less. Another such
incident, there will be no discussion, I will be GONE.'

(Again, not talking about simple sex.)

Told her I had to absolutely trust her, know she was not lying or
being false to me, never ... ever. I could not, would not live with
that.

Told her if we tried again, I expected at least the decency that if
she found heart wandering, she be honest, tell me up front. I'd cut
her loose.

To cut rest short, we got back together. Took some months for my
heart to get better. We had troubles with intimacy, I did. Not
because he'd had penis in her. A nonfactor, in my mind. Kept
wondering if she was thinking of him ... or me. In her heart. Took
time to heal. And effort. On her part and mine.

I did not hold self faultless. Nothing I could do about needing to be
away. When government orders, I had to go. But you betcha I started
spending more time when I didn't have to be away, touching, talking,
listening, etc. Making a point of doing the little nice things.
Flowers for no reason. Take a weekend day when I'd insist she do
nothing but relax while I tended house, did cooking, etc. Remembered
a kiss and an 'I love you.' every single time I walked out the door.
Etc etc.

We, as a couple healed. Marriage, after time even stronger. She bent
over backwards to make sure I never doubted her commitment again.
Always open and honest. Even when she needed to tell me something I
might not like. Which was good, I wanted her to tell me if unhappy or
upset about something. Geez, then we could work something out. I
could change, or we could compromise, or work something out.

The other man? Still a friend. Ohhhh, for a time we could hardly
speak. Then that passed. He absolutely refused to be alone with my
wife, even under innocent circumstance. Would visit only if I were
there. Actually, my wife introduced him later, to the woman who
became his wife. I was the best man at their wedding. No, they have
not repeated behind my back. They screwed up, knew it. Both
basically good people. Good people make mistakes. But they don't do
it again.

Sorry to be long winded, Gunner. Just pointing out I know something
of what it's like when a wife one loves stabs you in back.

You have done all you could. Better than I. I meant it when I told
her 'Once ... once only. Betray again and I'm gone.' I could not
have taken a repeat. Wouldn't have. If I can not trust my wife, I
don't want her. Might still love her ... but would not stay. Love
isn't enough.

<Shaking head> You got shit on buddy. My wife made a mistake, fixed
it. Your's just screwed you over repeatedly, on purpose.

My story is nothing. Yours is a horror story.

>Lady was 4 hours late and arrived half drunk.
>2 hours later, her ex-boyfriend and wife show up. A fight breaks out.
>2 more hours later, she flinches and says she has to leave.. her ex husband
>has just walked in. I follow them out the door, as they both get into a car,
>and leave. Leaving me with my mouth hanging open btw... duh?
>
>So much for my first date. and it may be a while before the next one.

OUCH !

>Why did I put up with this shit for so long? Because, stupid as it sounds, and
>for all my lack of tolorence for other bad things, I loved my wife with my
>heart and soul.. Wierd huh. Some of you married guys know what Im talking
>about. Love makes one stupid, and blind.

Yep, sure does.

>Why did she leave this time? Because I was "ignoring her, for years" and didnt
>pay her enough attention.
> Possibly true.. I was simply too damned tired to go dancing every Sat night,
>and too pissed to be warm and cuddly every waking moment I wasnt fighting with
>her or the boy, who btw... is exactly like her.
>I have a machine shop at home.. my getaway.. "and I spent too much time
>playing with the machines"
>I "spent too much time on the computer".. which if you check the post times
>was generally long after she went to bed.
>
>She says, she ruined the finances.. "subconsiously because she was mad at me"

Bullshit excuse, Gunner. She's just full of bull.

Okay, if she wanted out, fine. Owed you honesty. And no excuse for
wrecking you financially.

>
>Ah huh....
>
>Well, she left because:
>1. Her boyfriend became available
>2. She was bored
>3. She had gotten tired of not being able to afford a new car every year
>4. She is 45 and hitting the point where her looks were going.
>5. She has a weakness in her soul, in her personality, where she cannot admit
>to any mistakes, or wants to handle any responsibiltys, and they were crowding
>her again.

Seen this. Buddies wife. No boyfriend. But she hitting age of
worrying about getting older, missing out on possible fun. Still had
looks, but for how much longer? Bored. Tired of being mom and wife.
Before leaving she'd already balked about her share of workload,
having to deal with kids, etc. Buddy helped her some. But in a
career change, he worked hard and long hours 6 days a week trying to
work from bottom up, again.

Bam. He comes home one day, she's gone. She left a note. They'd
lived in California once, she missed the wild parties, etc. Gone to
'find herself'.

She left him house and bills. Cleaned out bank account. Left
everything else, including the kids.

Oh she had a fine time. Found self real stud with money who also
liked wild parties. She ended up used up, her new guy loaning her to
friends. She mostly drunk and stoned all the time. When guy got
tired of her. Dumped her. She ended up in one of those 'dry out'
places. Then decided to call him and see if maybe they could try
again. Sure ... she at minimum wage job, barely making it by. NOW
she wanted to come back.

Buddy had in the meantime had nervous breakdown. Mild heart attack.
Etc. Got better. Plodded on, found self new honey. One that wanted
nothing but him. Heck, she had a decent job herself. She's been good
to him, he to her. Married now, this is after a number of years.

Needless to say, when ex- called buddy told her 'Sorry ...' She could
see kids, she'd not tried before. But she was never welcome in his
home. He didn't want to know her again, become friends, or anything.

>So to make a long story short Bob.. do you think I have any options here?
>Think I should make the attempt to woo her back from her boyfriend?
>What would you do?

I can not know what you feel in your heart. I can not know her good
qualities. I presume she must have some.

So can not answer that question honestly.

Except to say ... knowing only what I know ... UH UH. Not a chance.

But I can't say that in your place, I'd have same opinion.

Too many things unsaid, unknown for me to make judgement.

>Well. then. I guess I win the Grand Prize for Stubborness, and the Booby Prize
>for Stupidity.

Yep, but that's not necessarily all bad Gunner. You have my heartfelt
admiration for trying, really REALLY trying. I admire that.

>I do find it interesting that all her girlfriends now consider
>me a desireable item.. and tested husband material.. for some reason.

Not unusual, in my experience. Hey, if they know all your faults and
still think you're worth considering ..... Any of them your type?
:-)

>Bob, you asked what was I looking for? And gave me a dressing down for wanting
>a trophy woman.... lol...
><snip 5 minutes of hysterical laughter>

No, I intended no dressing down.

"Well, what are yah looking for? A trophy? Something to show off?
Or a FRIEND, a PARTNER, a BUDDY? Who just so happens to be female and
sort of cuddly, and warm and much better feeling in bed than that guy
with whiskers?

Make up your mind guy. What are yah looking for? Asking for?"

You'd commented that old friend was probably 'old and ugly'.

I intended to suggest you first decide, before looking up ANY lady,
that you decide, make up mind, what were the qualities important to
you.

Your comment only suggested looks.

I suggested, or meant to, that you think deeper. Looks tell nothing
about character.

Now, if yah don't like fat, yah don't like fat. Personal thing.

Myself, don't mind it. I like most anything ... except the emaciated
thin look. YUCK. Don't care about size boobs, or other details. But
that starved, Twiggy look I can't deal with.

>Bob.. at the moment, I do not want anything other than a warm, cuddly boink
>buddy, who will ignore the occasional crying jags, and the rock kicking, and
>the ocassional hysterical laughter (its been over 5 weeks without sex..
>gaaaaa!) and no I will not pay for it.. not since 73' .

Nothing wrong with what you want. Your opinion may or may not change
later, who knows. But nothing wrong with just wanting a warm, cuddly,
boink buddy. Granting, you make it clear and do not lead her own.

Sorry, I'm big on honesty. Have a hard time with guys or gals who
deceive just to get sex.

>Someday.. I would like, maybe.. down the road, to find a warm, over sexed,
>lady, with few inhibitions, multiorgasmic, who is trustworthy, kind,
>warmhearted, smart, has common sense, a love for animals, likes the outdoors,
>likes being at home, likes to party, but loves to snuggle in front of a fire
>place, She can be short, tall (not fat though...sorry) white, black, brown,
>yellow, green, relilgiouis or a pagan.
>
>Pretty, or handsome, or homely,
>
> But she must be loyal, trustworthy and never never ever tell a lie. She must
>walk besides me, not ahead, or behind. She must be a stayer, not a self
>centered weak quitter.
>
>Do I want too much? Am I being overly picky? Are my standards too high?
>Am I asking too much?
>
>Oh.. one last thing.
> She must love me,, warts, wrinkles, thinning hair, zippers and all.
>
>Gunner

<G> I don't think you're asking too much except, perhaps the oversexed
and multiorgasmic qualifications.

What is 'oversexed'? Had (still have, we call each other time to
time) a friend married to a gal who might have been oversexed. True
story. She wanted (wants) to be loved 2 or 3 times a day, every day.
At least. Laughing. Ready ANYTIME, any way he wanted. And if he'd
not wanted, for more than a few hours, she'd drag him to bed. Wake
him up middle of the night to get some, etc.

No exaggeration. He admitted it, she admitted it. She wore the poor
fellow to a frazzle. No lie. Heck, he asked me if I'd PLEASE boink
her for a day, so he could get some sleep. I declined. Chuckle. Not
a morales issue. He indicated permission. Said it in front of my
wife. My wife said 'Go ahead'.

UH UH. I was kept quite busy by my own wife. Knew dang well I
couldn't keep both happy. Not with that gal. She was very pretty by
the way.

Guy asked other friends, found volunteers. Then found out something.
His wife was having none of it. No sex with others, not even casual
sex. Period. Him, only him ... often is what she wanted. She had no
inhibitions sexually whatever, except ... only sex with him.

ROFLMAO !!!! Poor man. If you wonder, he got some relief when my
wife bought his a bunch of 'adult toys'.

Humor aside. Such ladies are fairly rare. And often not your better
character. Many romp anybody, whether you like it or not. The
faithful ones, hard to find.

Now, a lady with a healthy, normal sex drive shouldn't be at all hard
to find.

Multiorgasmic? Now, I'm no expert, but have had more than a little
experience. Some are, some aren't. The ones who aren't doesn't mean
they're not a thoroughly enjoyable boink buddy. Just means yah take a
little break between orgasms. Some, can be multiorgasmic only under
certain conditions, or with certain types of play. My wife isn't
normally. But with certain type play (g-spot) she can keeping going
for a long time.

No, you're not asking to much if you're looking for the other quals,
plus a lady who's got a normal, healthy sex drive and is not inhibited
about it. Lot's of them around.

I don't know just a lot of single ladies. But know lots of married
ones, from young to past my age. Who are on a good enough friends
basis with wife and I that they talk openly about sex with us. A lot
of them, even older ones say their sex drive is just fine. And if
they're not having sex more often, it's due to husband. Not from lack
of desire on their part.

You are a bit more picky than a single friend of ours. Well, she's
not single any more. After a couple bad marriages. She made a list,
detailed one, of her expectations. GEEZ. Impossible list, she was
looking for the perfect man. Wouldn't even date a guy unless most
items on list checked off. Then only dated to find out if he was a
'check' on the other items. Not possible to find out without spending
time with him.

ROFL ... she actively seeking mate. She was single a long time.

Nobody could have met ALL her 'wish list'.

She finally modified list.
1. Breathing
2. Has solid job, actual income didn't matter, long as he was self
supporting.
3. Polite
4. Clean
5. Honest
6. Liked to cuddle

Chuckle. Married a yr later. Still married to the same guy. Heck,
she'd known fellow before but had not dated him since he didn't match
original list. Turns out, he was a pretty good guy. Not perfect.
i.e. Clean, but a lousy dresser. She likes designer things, color
coordinated etc. He's a jeans and flannel guy, preferring old ones
well worn in. She not too pleased to find out he's an avid fisherman
who fishes every opportunity. And, no, that was not something he was
willing to change. Worked out. She hates fishing, herself. But
started going with him. Take a book, get some sun, relax, etc while
he's fishing. They get a lot of talking in, she likes that. She
talks, he listens. He's not much of a talker. But will actually
listen to her, all she wants. And he does like to cuddle all she
wants. She's happy.

Gunner, best of luck to you guy. Hang in there. You got a raw deal,
but don't let it drag you down.

James E. Burdine

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
Actually Buckshot, that bullet is swaged down and no problem occurs.
Been done and tried by as August members of the gunning members as
P.O.Ackly. Now that the locktight might let go occasionally, probably
true.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Maker of fiber slings. Ancient weapons from nylon or hemp. See
http://www.usasn.com/~lbt/burdine.html and
http://www.pipeline.com/~jburdine/index.html for examples of my work.
more information or send SASE to The Fiberworks Armory,
1006 Kingsview ct.:Henderson,Nv. 89015 for my brochure.

Delcomico

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
>> >High explosives are *not* overrated. <g>
>> >
>>
>> I consider them "energy inefficient".
>
>Have you ever heard of shaped charges?

Well, I'm willing to make an exception in the case of anti-tank charges. :-)

BTL62768

unread,
Jun 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/22/00
to

I'm much more concerned about the daleks!

Oframe45

unread,
Jun 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/22/00
to
gunner,

Sorry to hear that you married "my cusin's" wife.

Blake A. Loyd

unread,
Jun 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/24/00
to

"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:utjalsk4reu5epn49...@4ax.com...
> lar...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
(snipped)
> Bowie knives in a pitch black room?

Oooh, I sure would like to see that. But then, I wouldn't be able to
would I. How about using blindfolds instead of the pitch black room?
;-)

Loyd

>
> Gunner
> "The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have
in their
> possession any swords, bows, spears, firearms or other types of
arms. The
> possession of these elements makes difficult the collection of taxes
and dues,
> and tends to permit uprising."
> --Toyotomi Hideyoshi,
> Shogun of Japan, August 29, 1558.

lar...@ozemail.com.au

unread,
Jun 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/25/00
to
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:25:21 +0100, Phil <no-...@nowhere.com> ,
sharing an opinion worldwide on misc.survivalism, and inviting
comments from others, caused the following words to appear on our
monitors:


1==> If there is anything worse than eating cabbage, it is eating
"Corned beef and cabbage." This would place one at additional risk
from the "corned beef" beings from Vega.

Americans have been known to be led into this nefarious practice by a
secret Spican masquerading as an earthling who once wrote a comic
strip known as "Jiggs and Maggie".

2==> Generally, only "generalists" would know of such arcana, but
thanks to the "magic" of the internet, almost anyone could probably
find some reference on the net if he looked.

3==> Alternatively, Americans could perhaps ask their parents or
grandparents?

4==> Other "generalists" such as "Gunner" might have heard of
"Jiggs and Maggie", perhaps we will hear from him? ...If he isn't too
embarrased to comment after implying that I am a liar.

5==> No, am not trying to attack "Gunner". Since I have known him, a
very decent and knowledgeable bloke.

On the other hand, am not really willing to accept *crap criticism*
from him. [If he wants to take out his frustrations on others, let
him do it with fellow Americans, not with me!]

—larryn


lar...@ozemail.com.au

unread,
Jun 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/25/00
to
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:09:21 GMT, gun...@cyberg8t.com (Gunner) ,

sharing an opinion worldwide on misc.survivalism, and inviting
comments from others, caused the following words to appear on our
monitors:

>On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:43:53 GMT, gun...@cyberg8t.com (Gunner) wrote:


>
>>On 21 Jun 2000 13:00:59 GMT, pla...@not.replyable.com (Jim String) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <3950614...@news.uia.net>, Gunner wrote:

>>>>Warning.. the below is quite long, disgusting, personally embarrassing, and a
>>>>bit deranged. Read at your own risk. Springer Show scouts need not apply ,
>>>>unless the money is real good.
>>>

>I do not know whether to be embarrassed, or what.. I just reread my own post..
>and I guess I should apologize to the group for it.. but yesterday was a very
>very long and rough day, work wise, emotionally wise, and you will note I
>wrote it long into Odarkthirty...after lying in the sack unable to sleep for
>hours. Sorry its so long, and rambling...but..thats sorta been my thought
>processes lately for some reason. It does provide a bit of catharsis however.
>Closure...one day at a time... but by that standard... I should be fine by
>2018.
>I do stand on the contents, and it is accurate... but... no wonder my fingers
>are sore this morning. :)
>
>Gunner
>

1==> OK, mate, I reckon that most of us realise that you are under a
lot of stress at the moment.

However, perhaps it it isn't wise to post comments that you miight
regret later.

You would have a whole lot of friends on this group, and peraps best
not to alienate them?

2==> As one of the very few real "generalists" on the group, do you
want to tell the others about "Jiggs and Maggie"?

—larryn


lar...@ozemail.com.au

unread,
Jun 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/25/00
to
On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:18:31 -0700, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> ,

sharing an opinion worldwide on misc.survivalism, and inviting
comments from others, caused the following words to appear on our
monitors:

>lar...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>
>>
>>4==> Other "generalists" such as "Gunner" might have heard of
>>"Jiggs and Maggie", perhaps we will hear from him? ...If he isn't too
>>embarrased to comment after implying that I am a liar.
>>
>>5==> No, am not trying to attack "Gunner". Since I have known him, a
>>very decent and knowledgeable bloke.
>>
>>On the other hand, am not really willing to accept *crap criticism*
>>from him. [If he wants to take out his frustrations on others, let
>>him do it with fellow Americans, not with me!]
>>
>>—larryn

>Ok Larry... if you must continue to insist that I called you a liar, and your honor is irreparably
>besmirched, one would suppose that there is no way to repair your honor but for my second to call on
>yours at the earliest possible moment.
>Pistols at 20 paces?
>Sabres?
>Sten guns at 10 feet?
>Sledge hammers in 6 ft of water?


>Bowie knives in a pitch black room?


See earlier post. :-)

"/ Simul Justus et Peccator / "

notg...@yahoo.com

unread,
Jul 10, 2018, 5:35:44 PM7/10/18
to
On Wednesday, June 21, 2000 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Gunner wrote:
> Warning.. the below is quite long, disgusting, personally embarrassing, and a
> bit deranged. Read at your own risk. Springer Show scouts need not apply ,
> unless the money is real good.

What a load of maudlin bullshit. Only someone with zero self respect could live that and admit to it.

Gunner Asch

unread,
Jul 15, 2018, 3:56:00 PM7/15/18
to
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:35:43 -0700 (PDT), notg...@yahoo.com wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 21, 2000 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Gunner wrote:
>> Warning.. the below is quite long, disgusting, personally embarrassing, and a
>> bit deranged. Read at your own risk. Springer Show scouts need not apply ,
>> unless the money is real good.
>
>What a load of maudlin bullshit. Only someone with zero self respect could live that and admit to it.

18 yrs ago? And you think it has anything to do with today?

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

David Hartung

unread,
Jul 15, 2018, 7:03:35 PM7/15/18
to
On 7/15/2018 12:56 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:35:43 -0700 (PDT), notg...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, June 21, 2000 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Gunner wrote:
>>> Warning.. the below is quite long, disgusting, personally embarrassing, and a
>>> bit deranged. Read at your own risk. Springer Show scouts need not apply ,
>>> unless the money is real good.
>> What a load of maudlin bullshit. Only someone with zero self respect could live that and admit to it.
> 18 yrs ago? And you think it has anything to do with today?

It has everything to do with today, you career loser and dole
scrounger.  You really don't have any self respect.

Charles Carpenter

unread,
Jul 15, 2018, 9:25:45 PM7/15/18
to
On 7/15/2018 4:03 PM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 7/15/2018 12:56 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:35:43 -0700 (PDT), notg...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 21, 2000 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Gunner wrote:
>>>> Warning.. the below is quite long, disgusting, personally
>>>> embarrassing, and a
>>>> bit deranged. Read at your own risk. Springer Show scouts need not
>>>> apply ,
>>>> unless the money is real good.
>>> What a load of maudlin bullshit.  Only someone with zero self respect
>>> could live that and admit to it.
>> 18 yrs ago?  And you think it has anything to do with today?
>
> It has everything to do with today, you career loser and dole
> scrounger.  You really don't have any self respect.

Wieber's life is still exactly the same shit he described below.

Winston_Smith

unread,
Jul 15, 2018, 10:31:38 PM7/15/18
to
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 16:03:34 -0700, David Hartung wrote:

So where is the part about the rifle. Love to hear comparisons of the
new modernized versions of the AK and the AR. Or about the ballistics
of the two calibers compared. This is alt.survival you know.

Bob Bradley

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 1:43:50 PM7/17/18
to
On Tuesday, June 20, 2000 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, nobody wrote:
> On 20 Jun 2000 01:40:23 -0700, jetrock@REMOVE_ME.emrl.com (Jetrock)
> wrote:
>
> >Plenty of folks choose 5.56x45mm weapons as their primary firearms for the
> >same reason, though: they expect the NWO/ATF ninjas to kick in their doors
> >and want to be able to salvage ammo after they've taken out a few squads
> >armed with M-16's all by themselves and their Mini-14.
>
>
> High explosives are *not* overrated. <g>
>
>
>
>
> --
> It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just bombed.


Wow - you were a colossal fuckwit/nothing 18 years ago, too.

Norman Rae

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 1:44:52 PM7/17/18
to
No one cares about the rifle, you douchenozzle. This thread is about
mocking Mark Wieber for his disgustingly maudlin post about his wife
fucking Carl Wyatt for the last 33 years, and Wieber keeps taking her back.

Gunner Asch

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 2:23:36 PM7/17/18
to
I enjoy watching him boink my wife like a sex crazed rabbit. Sometime I
join him to spit-roast my wife together. Shrug.

Gunner

I'm Mark Wieber, self employed "Coyote Engineering" scrapper.

I love to trash the socialist system that saved my life, and I have no shame.

I don't pay my hospital bills, rent & taxes, and I have no shame.

Mark Wieber (Gunner Asch) - self employed one-man company Coyote Engineering.
https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/Bypass#5297722097241260450

Bill Rozier

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 2:30:27 PM7/17/18
to
On 7/17/2018 11:23 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> Norman Rae wrote on 7/17/2018 1:44 PM:
>> On 7/15/2018 7:31 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 16:03:34 -0700, David Hartung wrote:
>>>
>>> So where is the part about the rifle. Love to hear comparisons of the
>>> new modernized versions of the AK and the AR. Or about the ballistics
>>> of the two calibers compared. This is alt.survival you know.
>>>
>>
>> No one cares about the rifle, you douchenozzle.  This thread is about
>> mocking Mark Wieber for his disgustingly maudlin post about his wife
>> fucking Carl Wyatt for the last 33 years, and Wieber keeps taking her
>> back.
>
>
> I enjoy watching him boink my wife like a sex crazed rabbit. Sometime I
> join him to spit-roast my wife together. Shrug.
>
> Gunner
>
> I'm Mark Wieber, self employed "Coyote Engineering" scrapper.
>
> I love to trash the socialist system that saved my life, and I have no
> shame.
>
> I don't pay my hospital bills, rent & taxes, and I have no shame.

Very good.

<chuckle>

Winston_Smith

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 4:23:07 PM7/17/18
to
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:44:51 -0700, Norman Rae
<some...@the.great.beyond> wrote:
>On 7/15/2018 7:31 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 16:03:34 -0700, David Hartung wrote:
>>
>> So where is the part about the rifle. Love to hear comparisons of the
>> new modernized versions of the AK and the AR. Or about the ballistics
>> of the two calibers compared. This is alt.survival you know.
>>
>
>No one cares about the rifle,

So your choice of subject line was just another example of fake news?
Got it.

BY the way, why did you cross post it to talk.politics.guns ? Seems to
me those folks would be more interested in the rifle than your
political insanity.

>you douchenozzle.

Ah, you're a lib. Now we understand.

Norman Rae

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 4:26:10 PM7/17/18
to
On 7/17/2018 12:27 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:44:51 -0700, Norman Rae
> <some...@the.great.beyond> wrote:
>> On 7/15/2018 7:31 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 16:03:34 -0700, David Hartung wrote:
>>>
>>> So where is the part about the rifle. Love to hear comparisons of the
>>> new modernized versions of the AK and the AR. Or about the ballistics
>>> of the two calibers compared. This is alt.survival you know.
>>>
>>
>> No one cares about the rifle,
>
> So your choice of subject line was just another example of fake news?
> Got it.

Wasn't "my" subject line, idiot. I was responding in an existing thread.

>
>> you douchenozzle.
>
> Ah, you're a lib.

That's not a word.

Gunner Asch

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 7:05:13 PM7/17/18
to
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:23:32 -0400, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>>> new modernized versions of the AK and the AR. Or about the ballistics
>>> of the two calibers compared. This is alt.survival you know.
>>>
>>
>> No one cares about the rifle, you douchenozzle.  This thread is about
>> mocking Mark Wieber for his disgustingly maudlin post about his wife
>> fucking Carl Wyatt for the last 33 years, and Wieber keeps taking her
>> back.
>
>
>I enjoy watching him boink my wife like a sex crazed rabbit. Sometime I
>join him to spit-roast my wife together. Shrug.

Is your ol lady good looking? Does she suck dick and take it in the
ass with glee? Send me a photo of her!!

Gunner Asch

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 7:06:07 PM7/17/18
to
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:30:26 -0700, Bill Rozier
<scum.wi...@losers.com> wrote:

>>
>> I love to trash the socialist system that saved my life, and I have no
>> shame.
>>
>> I don't pay my hospital bills, rent & taxes, and I have no shame.
>
>Very good.
>
><chuckle>


Of course he has not shame. He has been in the hospital for a
decade..he loves the attention and the strong meds.

Gunner Asch

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 7:27:18 PM7/17/18
to
Bill Rozier wrote on 7/17/2018 2:30 PM:
> On 7/17/2018 11:23 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>> Norman Rae wrote on 7/17/2018 1:44 PM:
>>> On 7/15/2018 7:31 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 16:03:34 -0700, David Hartung wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So where is the part about the rifle. Love to hear comparisons of the
>>>> new modernized versions of the AK and the AR. Or about the ballistics
>>>> of the two calibers compared. This is alt.survival you know.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No one cares about the rifle, you douchenozzle.  This thread is
>>> about mocking Mark Wieber for his disgustingly maudlin post about
>>> his wife fucking Carl Wyatt for the last 33 years, and Wieber keeps
>>> taking her back.
>>
>>
>> I enjoy watching him boink my wife like a sex crazed rabbit. Sometime
>> I join him to spit-roast my wife together. Shrug.
>>
>> Gunner
>>
>> I'm Mark Wieber, self employed "Coyote Engineering" scrapper.
>>
>> I love to trash the socialist system that saved my life, and I have
>> no shame.
>>
>> I don't pay my hospital bills, rent & taxes, and I have no shame.
>
> Very good.
>
> <chuckle>

Of course I have no shame. I have been in and out of the mental hospital for a
decade.. I love the attention and the strong meds.



Gunner

--

I love to trash the socialist system that saved my life, and I have no shame.

I don't pay my hospital bills, rent & taxes, and I have no shame.

Mark Wieber (Gunner Asch) - self employed "Coyote Engineering" scrapper.

Winston_Smith

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 7:40:13 PM7/17/18
to
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:26:09 -0700, Norman Rae wrote:
>On 7/17/2018 12:27 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:44:51 -0700, Norman Rae wrote:

>>> No one cares about the rifle,
>>
>> So your choice of subject line was just another example of fake news?
>> Got it.
>
>Wasn't "my" subject line, idiot. I was responding in an existing thread.

"Responding". What in your "response" related to a discussion about
rifles?

The thread was 18 years old. Your intent had nothing to do with
"responding".

One would expect a clever usenet troll like you could have come up
with a more relevant subject line given 18 years to think it through
in detail.

With that sort of whacko leftist thinking, it's no wonder 0bama
screwed things up so bad. Thank the gods Hillary got her butt handed
to her.

Norman Rae

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 8:53:48 PM7/17/18
to
On 7/17/2018 4:40 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:26:09 -0700, Norman Rae wrote:
>> On 7/17/2018 12:27 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:44:51 -0700, Norman Rae wrote:
>
>>>> No one cares about the rifle,
>>>
>>> So your choice of subject line was just another example of fake news?
>>> Got it.
>>
>> Wasn't "my" subject line, idiot. I was responding in an existing thread.
>
> "Responding". What in your "response" related to a discussion about
> rifles?

The post to which I responded also had nothing to do with rifles.

> The thread was 18 years old. Your intent had nothing to do with
> "responding".

False.

Winston_Smith

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 9:16:38 PM7/17/18
to

Norman Rae

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 9:30:55 PM7/17/18
to
Yes...and?

Winston_Smith

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 10:05:02 PM7/17/18
to
And 18 years.

Norman Rae

unread,
Jul 17, 2018, 10:08:00 PM7/17/18
to
And???

Richard Clayton Wieber

unread,
Feb 28, 2020, 1:21:14 PM2/28/20
to
This is some sick bullshit.

On Wednesday, June 21, 2000 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Gunner wrote:
> Warning.. the below is quite long, disgusting, personally embarrassing, and a
> bit deranged. Read at your own risk. Springer Show scouts need not apply ,
> unless the money is real good.
>
>
God damn, what bullshit!

Nicodemus

unread,
Feb 28, 2020, 7:24:39 PM2/28/20
to
Richard Clayton Wieber <druggy.Wi...@meth.whore> wrote in
news:fkd6G.735172$ek.4...@fx48.iad:


>
Buy a gun and learn how to to use it, be prepared in these times.
0 new messages