Circumcision
Magenta Margurite
America that boy babies are circumcised as a matter of routine, and that you
have to opt out in birth plans to avoid it.
I understand that some religions require this, but I cannot see what
possible reason there could be to do this otherwise.
Magenta.
Circe
on the coasts. It may be more common in the interior parts of the
country, but here in California, boys are circumcized only on the
request of parents and it is completely unnecessary to state in one's
birth plan that one does not want circumcision, as no baby boy is ever
carted off for this procedure without parental consent.
--
Be well, Barbara (Julian [7/22/97] and Aurora's [7/19/99] mom)
Check out our website at http://dreamwater.net/guavaln
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Patti & David Folkerts
tract infections, and other random infections as well. It is also
considered cleaner and easier to care for, although that alone would not be
sufficient reason. My uncle was not circumcised as a baby and HAD to be
circumcised as a teenager due to a severe and extremely painful infection
(which the doctors all agreed he would never had gotten had he been
circumcised in the first place). Therefore, for my family there was no
question. We insisted upon it.
--
patti
mom of 3 boys, 9-1-1 !!!
Rhonda
Magenta Margurite wrote:
--
If you think this is bad.. just remember, an elephant is pregnant for 645 days!
(that's 21 1/2 months!!)
SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee
:)
What kind of poll exactly? (Curious now.)
Later, Sophie
Circe
Gwendolen
correct. I have three adult uncircumcised brothers who've never had any
problems and an uncircumcised son who has never even had a diaper rash. I
know I'm going to regret this but should we remove everyone's appendix in
case it needs removing later?
And wait before I get flamed I think it's a personal decision, I am not,
repeat am not, judging anyone who has opted for circumcision. I just get
tired of these endless arguments which I realize I have just contributed to.
Please excuse me, my due date is tomorrow and I'm rather irritable. : )
Gwendolen
"Patti & David Folkerts" <patt...@yta.attmil.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:95cv8p$rrr$1...@newsflood.tokyo.att.ne.jp...
ellen
lecture not too long ago and the pediatrician said that nationally only about
60% of boys are circumcised, but in the area where I live (New England) about
80% still are. I'm not sure if it's really "routine" any more here, I think
you have to request it.
My mother is an R.N. and she once said that following WWII, there was a big
push to circumcise all newborn boys in this country so that they would all look
alike. Apparently the Nazis used to look to see if a man was circumcised to
determine whether or not he was Jewish. There was a lot of hysteria here during
the cold war. I've never read or heard this anyplace else, so I don't know if
it's true, but then again I haven't really researched the topic much either.
-Ellen
(edd 3/24/01)
j47
Well, once it was a social custom in Britain to circ about 30% of newborn males.
Then rational thinking prevailed in the early 1950's. The circ rate is now
falling in the US as well. Circing newborn boys is certainly a disgusting bad
habit.
Ellis Bell
"Circe" <gua...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >
> Uh-oh, here we go...
> --
Maybe someone shout start a misc.kids.circumcision ng, or an alt
one for all this discussion, or is there one already??
--
Andrea
Mum of 9 to...
Rhys (12), Jayden (11), Tessa (9), Tyler (8),
Paige (6), Grace (5), Zachary (3), Rose and Amelia (16mths) and
Angel baby (1/01)
"Welcome to this Place I'll show you everything with arms wide
open"....Creed
iphigenia
:
: My mother is an R.N. and she once said that following WWII, there was a
big
: push to circumcise all newborn boys in this country so that they would all
look
: alike. Apparently the Nazis used to look to see if a man was circumcised
to
: determine whether or not he was Jewish. There was a lot of hysteria here
during
: the cold war. I've never read or heard this anyplace else, so I don't know
if
: it's true, but then again I haven't really researched the topic much
either.
Yes, but why would the US be worried about that after the war ended?
I've read that circumcision was promoted as it was thought to discourage
masturbation.
--
iphigenia
be my voice in my midnight meditation...
when I wake, be my heart's flotation.
SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee
>Gwendolen
No way!! Since it's not in your sig line I actually never knew when you
were due. I didn't realize it was now! Lol.
Can't wait for the birth story. :)
Later, Sophie
Michelle in Canada
Magenta Margurite <magenta.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:brme6.4583$LQ2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
While circ. may be quite common here...by no means do you "have to opt out
in births plans"!!! By reading some of the recent threads I think you've
been sort of misled. Doctors will NOT come into your room, grab your son
and go cut his foreskin off if you forget to mention it in your birth plan
LOL!!!
The reason for it in the birth plan is rather to designate who will be with
the baby...and whether or not meds are used!!!
--
Michelle in Canada mom to:
Matthew(25/06/93)
Ryan(04/05/00)
and #3 EDD(17/07/01)
Michelle in Canada
> In article <95cv8p$rrr$1...@newsflood.tokyo.att.ne.jp>,
> "Patti & David Folkerts" <patt...@yta.attmil.ne.jp> wrote:
> > Circumcision dramatically reduces the boys' risk of penile cancer,
> urinary
> > tract infections, and other random infections as well. It is also
> > considered cleaner and easier to care for, although that alone would
> not be
> > sufficient reason. My uncle was not circumcised as a baby and HAD to
> be
> > circumcised as a teenager due to a severe and extremely painful
> infection
> > (which the doctors all agreed he would never had gotten had he been
> > circumcised in the first place). Therefore, for my family there was
> no
> > question. We insisted upon it.
> >
> Uh-oh, here we go...
> --
LOL Barbara...just what I was about to type!!!
Jkknfollett
>masturbation.
>
>--
>iphigenia
He He -- Didn't work very well! :)
Kari
mom to Kaylie (5) and Noah (21mos)
Michelle in Canada
Jkknfollett <jkknf...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20010201214646...@ng-fk1.news.cs.com...
ROTFLMAO!!!! too funny Kari :)
michelle downunder
<fakea...@home.com> oracled :
;-)>Please excuse me, my due date is tomorrow and I'm rather irritable. : )
;-)>Gwendolen
;-)
;-)
;-)No way!! Since it's not in your sig line I actually never knew when you
;-)were due. I didn't realize it was now! Lol.
;-)
;-)Can't wait for the birth story. :)
;-)
;-)Later, Sophie
;-)
Gwendolen.... can you please email me...
Tatjana (Germany)
ellen <e...@poetic.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
3A7A0874...@poetic.com...
It is true.
Jews that were found hiding out somewhere and who claimed upon arrest that
they weren't Jewish, would have their pants pulled down for checking. If
they were indeed circumcised, they would have had no chance whatsoever -
circumcision is not and has never been done in Germany except for medical
indications, such as phimosis.
Tatjana
Tatjana (Germany)
Patti & David Folkerts <patt...@yta.attmil.ne.jp> schrieb in im
Newsbeitrag: 95cv8p$rrr$1...@newsflood.tokyo.att.ne.jp...
Don't flame me, I'll try to stay on fact.
Yes, it reduces the risk of penile cancer. A minuscule risk. But I do
understand that you want to shelter your kid from every possible risk even
if it might be blown out of proportion. I have *never* heard of a case of
penile cancer - be it media or my personal environment. Yes, it does exist
no doubt, but it no doubt is so rare that it is not recommended here because
of all the *possible* side effects of circs.
My brother had to have a partial circumcision due to phimosis and my df was
unfortunately circ'ed at his Bris (he's Jewish). He's one of those who have
problems due to it, mainly a loss of sensation in the tip (it dries out
without protection from the foreskin) that can only be helped in water, and
quite an amount of infections due to skin cracks. But then, YMMV, of course.
Tatjana
(whose Jewish boys will stay intact)
iphigenia
: It is true.
: Jews that were found hiding out somewhere and who claimed upon arrest that
: they weren't Jewish, would have their pants pulled down for checking. If
: they were indeed circumcised, they would have had no chance whatsoever -
: circumcision is not and has never been done in Germany except for medical
: indications, such as phimosis.
It's well known that this was a common practice for identifying Jews in Nazi
Germany, but I still don't see why that would translate to an American
post-war surge in circing...
iphigenia
: >I've read that circumcision was promoted as it was thought to discourage
: >masturbation.
:
:
: He He -- Didn't work very well! :)
:
Oh, well, that's what I thought too "yeah, that'll stop 'em"
Apparently though, having a foreskin that had to be handled for cleaning
would encourage, uh, recreational handling.
I don't know if they thought that circed guys wouldn't touch their penises
in the bath or what.
ellen
> "ellen" <e...@poetic.com> wrote:
> :
> : My mother is an R.N. and she once said that following WWII, there was a
> big
> : push to circumcise all newborn boys in this country so that they would all
> look
> : alike. Apparently the Nazis used to look to see if a man was circumcised
> to
> : determine whether or not he was Jewish. There was a lot of hysteria here
> during
> : the cold war. I've never read or heard this anyplace else, so I don't know
> if
> : it's true, but then again I haven't really researched the topic much
> either.
>
> Yes, but why would the US be worried about that after the war ended?
>
Because once WWII ended the "Cold War," marked by suspicion and fear, began.
People were very afraid that something similar to the holocaust could happen
here. Circumcising everyone was just one manifestation of this fear.
-Ellen
Gwendolen
officially today and I hope it's soon 'cause dh works out of town and he's
here for the next few days so think happy labour thoughts.
Michelle, I just emailed you back!
Gwendolen
DUE TODAY!!!!!
"michelle downunder" <shel...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:svok7tkvufh1md8rs...@4ax.com...
Rhonda
enough to just fuel such a controversial topic such as circumcision in the way
that post was written.. (which is obviously going to get people going.. )
As circe so eloquently stated: "uh oh.. here we go" :)
Rhonda
Rhonda
Likes to stay away from stay at home, circumcision, homeschool, daycare and
breastfeeding debates
--
SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee
Oh okay. I just thought you were gonna ask who had it done to their sons or
something. We had Patrick done and will have any future sons done. I don't
blame you for staying away from those topics. Geez. Lol.
Later, Sophie
SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee
message. Yes it >is now
>officially today and I hope it's soon 'cause dh works out of town and he's
>here for the next few days so think happy labour thoughts.
Uh oh. Okay. Sending labor vibes your way!! :)
Later, Sophie
Joanna Kimball
Michelle wrote:
>
> On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 23:37:50 -0000, "Magenta Margurite"
> <magenta.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm English, and I find it utterly amazing that it's taken so for granted in
> >America that boy babies are circumcised as a matter of routine, and that you
> >have to opt out in birth plans to avoid it.
>
> I hope Magenta isn't just another troll ... anyway, you're not
> exactly correct. You don't necessarily have to opt out in order
> to avoid it. These days, you have to consent to it in advance.
> And it is less common than it used to be.
>
> >I understand that some religions require this, but I cannot see what
> >possible reason there could be to do this otherwise.
>
> Whether you can see it or not, there are one or two possible
> reasons. You don't have to agree with them, but there are
> reasons.
And PLEASE let that be the last post on it... please? Please?
Joanna
Meriwether, 3
Honour, 2
cv123
of your clitoris chopped off? sound like fun? i didnt think so, as far as
hygenie is concerned that was disproven years ago... try reading Say no to
Circumsion, 40 compelling reasons. Besides relgious reasons, males should be
free to grow up and decide for themselves if they wish a healthy normal part
of their penis removed.
"Gwendolen" <gwend...@home.com> wrote in message
news:_Ene6.55714$K8.26...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
Gwendolen
Gwendolen
"SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee" <fakea...@home.com> wrote in message
news:t7m11oi...@corp.supernews.com...
JenniRoa
>America that boy babies are circumcised as a matter of routine, and that you
>have to opt out in birth plans to avoid it.
This was not my experience at all. I was provided with the information (pro
and con) of circumcision and was asked to make a choice. It was not assumed
that we would do it at all.
Jenni
Larry McMahan
: Circumcision dramatically reduces the boys' risk of penile cancer, urinary
: tract infections, and other random infections as well.
This is an absolute lie, totally unsupported by the medical evidence.
There is a small decrease in UTIs, but the other "dramatic reductions"
simply do not exist. The slightly higher rate of UTIs for intect
babies could be caused by improper cleaning methods (retraction of
the foreskin). This needs further research.
: It is also
: considered cleaner and easier to care for, although that alone would not be
: sufficient reason.
As I stated above, this is primarily because parents of intect babies are
taught improper cleaning methods.
: My uncle was not circumcised as a baby and HAD to be
: circumcised as a teenager due to a severe and extremely painful infection
: (which the doctors all agreed he would never had gotten had he been
: circumcised in the first place).
There is an occasional need for a circumcision, but not enough to justify
it as a routine infant procedure.
: circumcised in the first place). Therefore, for my family there was no
: question. We insisted upon it.
That is something you have a right to do. But the reasons you give
above are misleading and are not compelling reasons for recommending
it as a general public health policy.
: --
: patti
: mom of 3 boys, 9-1-1 !!!
I predict that this thread will erupt into one of the typical
circ flame wars which have been absent from mkp for a long time.
Larry
Rhonda
choice... too bad we just can't all get along.. haha
"SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee" wrote:
--
sue...@my-deja.com
"Magenta Margurite" <magenta.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I'm English, and I find it utterly amazing that it's taken so for
routine, and that you have to opt out in birth plans to avoid it.
> possible reason there could be to do this otherwise.
>
>
> "Troll, troll, troll, troll"
everybody sing along with me now.....
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Helen Arias
}>have to opt out in birth plans to avoid it.
Well, not quite. Circumcision in the U.S., is considered by many,
to be "routine" (RIC). However, a circumcision cannot be performed
without the written consent of the parent.
H.
Rhonda
even stick around for the aftermath.. I mean, maybe she's not a troll, but she
might as well be - stir it up.. then take off.. just like a troll.
Rhonda
Joanna Kimball wrote:
> snip
>
> And PLEASE let that be the last post on it... please? Please?
>
> Joanna
> Meriwether, 3
> Honour, 2
--
j47
>iphigenia wrote:
>
>> "ellen" <e...@poetic.com> wrote:
>> :
>> : My mother is an R.N. and she once said that following WWII, there was a big
>> : push to circumcise all newborn boys in this country so that they would all look
>> : alike. Apparently the Nazis used to look to see if a man was circumcised to
>> : determine whether or not he was Jewish. There was a lot of hysteria here during
>> : the cold war. I've never read or heard this anyplace else, so I don't know if
>> : it's true, but then again I haven't really researched the topic much either.
>>
>> Yes, but why would the US be worried about that after the war ended?
>>
>Because once WWII ended the "Cold War," marked by suspicion and fear, began.
>People were very afraid that something similar to the holocaust could happen
>here. Circumcising everyone was just one manifestation of this fear.
>
>-Ellen
Because most of the OBs were Jewish?
http://www.apfmed.org/chevra/jewishmd.htm
Magenta Margurite
"Michelle" <any...@anywhere.us> wrote in message
news:00kk7tohof7tosu7s...@4ax.com...
> I hope Magenta isn't just another troll ... anyway, you're not
> exactly correct. You don't necessarily have to opt out in order
> to avoid it. These days, you have to consent to it in advance.
> And it is less common than it used to be.
No, I'm not a Troll, I just had never realised that so many American boys
were circumcised as a matter of routine, I'm actually a Nurse, so I see a
lot of penises, but Ive only ever seen one that's been circumcised in about
10 years, and it's only rarely I've come accross problems, usually in older
men who are unable to care for their own hygene. Even then, this can usually
be solved by improving their hygene or antibiotics.
To me 60% seems a huge proportion.
The midwife gave me a standard book which is given to all pregnant women
here, with information on everything from conception to bathing, and there
is no mention of circumcision at all, it's not even an issue.
Magenta.
Magenta Margurite
<sue...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95fbfd$pd8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <brme6.4583$LQ2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
> > "Troll, troll, troll, troll"
> everybody sing along with me now.....
Since when has it been Trolling to express an opinion?
It seems to me that some peoples definition of a troll includes anyone who
expresses a different opinion to their own.
I never expected a simple question would bring a response like this.
Magenta.
Larry McMahan
: Rhonda
: Likes to stay away from stay at home, circumcision, homeschool, daycare and
: breastfeeding debates
Then why do you post here. :-)
Larry
Magenta Margurite
"Magenta Margurite" <magenta.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:brme6.4583$LQ2....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> I'm English, and I find it utterly amazing that it's taken so for granted
in
you
> have to opt out in birth plans to avoid it.
Thank you to everyone who responded with useful information. I'm very glad
that parental permission is needed before a circumcision is carried out, I
was a little confused by it's inclusion in so many birth plans.
Although I'm still quite mystified that so many parents feel it's necessary,
and also that so many people feel so defensive about it. I merely wondered
these parents and their doctors percived as reasons for circumcision as a
routine.
Obviously you have had this discussion before, is there an FAQ I could look
at to avoid further upset?
Magenta.
Magenta Margurite
"Rhonda" <ron...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3A7B39C6...@yahoo.com...
> What irritates me more then the discussion happening, is the original
poster didn't
> even stick around for the aftermath.. I mean, maybe she's not a troll,
but she
> might as well be - stir it up.. then take off.. just like a troll.
I posted the original message approximately 24 hours ago, maybe some people
here can sit by their computers all day, but sometimes it's two or three
days before I can get back to the newsgroups.
Magenta.
SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee
>Magenta.
No question about circumcision is ever *simple*. Lol.
Later, Sophie
sue...@my-deja.com
Magenta wrote:
"in America that boy babies are circumcised as a matter of routine"
"that you have to opt out in birth plans to avoid it"
"I understand that some religions require this, but I cannot see what
possible reason there could be to do this otherwise"
What was your question? Why cross post to mkp AND alt.circ??
It is only ok in your opinion if for religious reasons? Resurecting a
much pounded highly charged issue? I dunno, sounds like trolling to me.
Maybe lurk more before you post.
Sue
AND you Don't know my opinion on this, breastfeeding or diapers
Magenta Margurite
<sue...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95fsv8$7vj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <7FJe6.5090$Ee3.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
> "Magenta Margurite" <magenta.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Since when has it been Trolling to express an opinion?
> > It seems to me that some peoples definition of a troll includes
> anyone who
> > expresses a different opinion to their own.
> > I never expected a simple question would bring a response like this.
> >
> > Magenta.
> What was your question? Why cross post to mkp AND alt.circ??
I didn't cross post. I didn't even know there was alt.circ.
> It is only ok in your opinion if for religious reasons?
That's a whole other issue I wasn't going to get into, there are a lot of
things which happen for religious reasons I don't agree with.
Resurecting a
> much pounded highly charged issue? I dunno, sounds like trolling to me.
I didn't realise it was so highly charged.
> Maybe lurk more before you post.
I have been lurking for weeks.
> Sue
> AND you Don't know my opinion on this, breastfeeding or diapers
Why would breastfeeding and 'Daipers' be highly charged issues? Even so,
what's wrong with discussing them?
Magenta.
Jenni T
That seems to be the OP's point - in the US it's a big issue, in the UK it's
just not an issue (except for some religious people).
--
Jenni T
mother of Gabriel (6), Casper (4) and Theo (Aug '00)
London, UK
Hugh Young
>ellen wrote in message <3A7ADBB2...@poetic.com>...
>>iphigenia wrote:
>>
>>> "ellen" <e...@poetic.com> wrote:
>>> :
>>> : My mother is an R.N. and she once said that following WWII, there was a big
>>> : push to circumcise all newborn boys in this country so that they would all look
>>> : alike. Apparently the Nazis used to look to see if a man was circumcised to
>>> : determine whether or not he was Jewish. There was a lot of hysteria here during
>>> : the cold war. I've never read or heard this anyplace else, so I don't know if
>>> : it's true, but then again I haven't really researched the topic much either.
Sounds like someone tried to find a rational explanation for US
circumcision mania - and failed yet again.
Remember, anti-Semitism was quite respectable until well after the war
and the full horror of the Holocaust was known (remember that ship
full of Jews that couldn't find anywhere to land?). So it's hardly
likely that circumcision to protect Jews would ever have got a
foothold.
>>> Yes, but why would the US be worried about that after the war ended?
>>>
>>Because once WWII ended the "Cold War," marked by suspicion and fear, began.
>>People were very afraid that something similar to the holocaust could happen
>>here. Circumcising everyone was just one manifestation of this fear.
Just ONE Jewish woman is on record as suggesting universal c. to
protect Jews, but that was within the last couple of decades or so,
not right after the war, and nobody seems to have agreed with her.
Still, you are right that Cold War suspicion, fear AND THE CONFORMITY
THEY ENGENDERED, could have had something to do with the post-war
passion to circumcise.
--
Hugh Young, Pukerua Bay, Nuclear-free Aotearoa / New Zealand
Intactivism at http://www.circumstitions.com
"A voice from heaven should be ignored if it is not on the side of justice." - Isaac Bashevis Singer
Magenta Margurite
> On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 03:12:44 GMT, sue...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >What was your question? Why cross post to mkp AND alt.circ??
> >It is only ok in your opinion if for religious reasons? Resurecting a
> >much pounded highly charged issue? I dunno, sounds like trolling to me.
> >Maybe lurk more before you post.
> >
> >Sue
> >AND you Don't know my opinion on this, breastfeeding or diapers
>
> cross-posted to alt.circ. Is that a real newsgroup? If it is,
> I'll bet the post was more like FROM alt.circ than just
> cross-posted to alt.circ.
I repeat, I did not cross post. If any of you had bothered to look as I just
did, you would have seen that the message was cross posted later by j47, at
00.53 02/02/01.
Magenta.
Magenta Margurite
"Jenni T" <nosp...@jennit.co.uk> wrote in message
news:95g8gb$gpj5r$1...@ID-30007.news.dfncis.de...
>
> SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee <fakea...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:t7mt3eg...@corp.supernews.com...
> > >I never expected a simple question would bring a response like this.
> > >Magenta.
> >
> > No question about circumcision is ever *simple*. Lol.
> >
> > Later, Sophie
> >
> >
>
> That seems to be the OP's point - in the US it's a big issue, in the UK
it's
> just not an issue (except for some religious people).
Pretty much, yes.
Magenta.
Magenta Margurite
> On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 02:23:43 -0000, "Magenta Margurite"
> <magenta.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >Although I'm still quite mystified that so many parents feel it's
necessary,
>
> just think that it's a good idea.
If it's not necessary, then why is it such a 'Good Idea'?
why not just leave it as nature intended?
Magenta.
j47
necessary,
>
>just think that it's a good idea.
Or maybe most parents know nothing about it but assume its necessary
because they are asked to consent to it.
Ruthie
> If it's not necessary, then why is it such a 'Good Idea'?
> why not just leave it as nature intended?
>
> Magenta.
So....nature intended my mom to get breast cancer. Should she have let it
kill her so as not to disturb its intentions?
--
Ruthie, proud momma of Rachel, 1-22-98, and ??????, EDD 9-10-01
Dave
: Patti & David Folkerts <patt...@yta.attmil.ne.jp> schrieb in im
: Newsbeitrag: 95cv8p$rrr$1...@newsflood.tokyo.att.ne.jp...
: > Circumcision dramatically reduces the boys' risk of penile cancer, urinary
: > tract infections, and other random infections as well. It is also
: > considered cleaner and easier to care for, although that alone would not
: be
: > sufficient reason. My uncle was not circumcised as a baby and HAD to be
: > circumcised as a teenager due to a severe and extremely painful infection
: > (which the doctors all agreed he would never had gotten had he been
: > circumcised in the first place). Therefore, for my family there was no
: > question. We insisted upon it.
: Don't flame me, I'll try to stay on fact.
: Yes, it reduces the risk of penile cancer. A minuscule risk. But I do
: understand that you want to shelter your kid from every possible risk even
: if it might be blown out of proportion. I have *never* heard of a case of
: penile cancer - be it media or my personal environment. Yes, it does exist
: no doubt, but it no doubt is so rare that it is not recommended here because
: of all the *possible* side effects of circs.
Penile cancer occurs mainly among indigent men who do not follow normal
hygeine practices.
: My brother had to have a partial circumcision due to phimosis and my df was
: unfortunately circ'ed at his Bris (he's Jewish). He's one of those who have
: problems due to it, mainly a loss of sensation in the tip (it dries out
: without protection from the foreskin) that can only be helped in water, and
: quite an amount of infections due to skin cracks. But then, YMMV, of course.
One of the main reasons that we chose not to circ is that during the early
months of life the baby's relatively immature brain is developing, and we
didn't want pain to be one of the first neural pathways laid down. Many
mothers post their sons are asleep when they return from their circ. Some
experts state that's due to shock. I can't imagine removing the part of a
boy's body that has the most nerve endings per square inch just because
<insert common reasons here>.
Also, the risk of urinary tract infections among intact boys is about the same
as for a girl. It's not like it's some astromonical figure. Or should we start
doing labial surgery on all our newborn girls, too? (Or would it be clitoral
hood?) We do a strange ritual to prevent uti's called a bath. Oh, and we avoid
high sugar diet and drink enough pure (as we can get anyway; heh-heh ;-) water.
: (whose Jewish boys will stay intact)
My husband is Jewish, and there's no way he'd let anyone do that do our son.
(or sons if we we were fortunate to have another)
--
Colette (posting from Dave's acct.)
Dave
: "Jkknfollett" wrote...
: : >I've read that circumcision was promoted as it was thought to discourage
: : >masturbation.
: :
: :
: : He He -- Didn't work very well! :)
: :
: Oh, well, that's what I thought too "yeah, that'll stop 'em"
: Apparently though, having a foreskin that had to be handled for cleaning
: would encourage, uh, recreational handling.
: I don't know if they thought that circed guys wouldn't touch their penises
: in the bath or what.
Actually, though, the opposite is found to be true. Due too lack of
sensitivity, males with amputated foreskins tend to do it more and require
rougher stimulation b/c they are missing the same amount of foreskin, as an
adult, as a 3 X5 card. (This is doulbe sking, so fold the card lengthwise, and
you'll see what I mean. And of course that's an average.
Magenta Margurite
"Ruthie" <journ...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4zVe6.159849$ge4.56...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
>
> > If it's not necessary, then why is it such a 'Good Idea'?
> > why not just leave it as nature intended?
> >
> > Magenta.
>
> So....nature intended my mom to get breast cancer. Should she have let it
> kill her so as not to disturb its intentions?
So, you think she should have had her breasts removed as a teenager to
prevent it?
Magenta.
Michelle
>Actually, though, the opposite is found to be true. Due too lack of
>sensitivity, males with amputated foreskins tend to do it more and require
>rougher stimulation b/c they are missing the same amount of foreskin,
Actually, the study done by Lauman (sp?) which found that they
"do it more" didn't give a reason, so you are just making up that
part of it. I could make up a reason too: they do it more because
they enjoy it more, but I wouldn't go around spreading that
made-up reason like it was a fact like you did. Of course you
didn't bother to mention that the same study found that older
uncircumcised men experienced *more* sexual *dysfunction* than
circumcised men.
>as an adult, as a 3 X5 card. (This is doulbe sking, so fold the card lengthwise,
>and you'll see what I mean. And of course that's an average.
Oh sure it's an average. Not! That's an exaggeration.
Circumcision doesn't usually remove the whole foreskin.
Magenta Margurite
"j47" <j...@j47.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:AuVe6.136$Ni4....@nnrp1.sbc.net...
This is what worries me, I think this is very likely what happens.
Magenta.
Magenta Margurite
PS, I'm sorry your Mum got breast cancer:(
Magenta.
mar...@my-deja.com
(Canada), we have something like 100 cases a year in the entire country.
Urinary tract infections are usually no big deal either and MUCH more
rare in males than females, regardless of circumcision because of the
length of their urethras. Most women have had at least one in their lives
(I've had zillions), so I can't get my knickers too knotted up about my
sons having one. If they were having a chronic problem that circumcision
might fix, I might consider it - but so far, they are 10 and 7 and we've
never had a hint of a problem due to being intact.
Circumcising every boy to prevent UTIs or penile cancer is like killing a
ant with an atomic bomb. I mean, to prevent breast cancer in women,
should we remove the breasts of every girl? Do surgery on every girl to
fix her inherently poorly designed urethra so she won't get UTIs?
I figure if down the road something happens to my boys that makes
circumcision an idea to correct some medical concern, we'll cross the
bridge when we come to it - and hopefully, they will have some say in
what goes on.
Mary G.
Ruthie
mother.
--
Ruthie, proud momma of Rachel, 1-22-98, and ??????, EDD 9-10-01
"Magenta Margurite" <magenta.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:uLWe6.12812$LQ2.1...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Ruthie
known anyone who had it (or if they did they didn't tell me). All I meant in
my post to Magenta was nature intends a lot of things that the majority of
us agree need to be fixed, helped, changed, cured.
--
Ruthie, proud momma of Rachel, 1-22-98, and ??????, EDD 9-10-01
<mar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95hfc0$boa$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Michelle
>Thing is Ruthie, penile cancer is very, very rare - in my country
>(Canada), we have something like 100 cases a year in the entire country.
I did a lot of reading about this before our youngest was born.
From what I read, it's rare here in the U.S. too. Lot's more than
100 cases a year, though. More like 1500.
>Urinary tract infections are usually no big deal either and MUCH more
>rare in males than females, regardless of circumcision because of the
>length of their urethras.
From what I read, it depends on whether you're talking about
circumcised boys or uncircumcised boys. Uncircumcised boys have
just about as many urinary tract infections as girls. More at
some ages
>I figure if down the road something happens to my boys that makes
>circumcision an idea to correct some medical concern, we'll cross the
>bridge when we come to it - and hopefully, they will have some say in
>what goes on.
I used to feel that way too. I read all that stuff and got
completely turned off about circumcision. Our youngest son wasn't
circumcised (in spite of dad's wishes). Now he says he wishes he
had been because all his friends are. You can't win 'em all!
Magenta Margurite
> I'm glad she didn't let nature take it's course. I really like having a
> mother.
I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with your brain, how you can
think the two situations are comparable beats be.
Or maybe at the moment you're too upset to think clearly.
Magenta.
cv123
lets call the little boy Jack...hes about four..playing with his next door
neighbor, Ken also 4. Eventually they start "comparing" (like most kids do)
Jack is uncircumsised, ken isnt. so jack went home and asked his mom what
was wrong with his penis..and when sheexplained why,he was asking,Jacks mom
said, "well son, when ken was a baby, they cut off skin on the tip of his
penis"....horrified Jack asked " but mommy dont kens parents love thier
babies?" ..and beofre she could stop him jack runs out the door and tell
ken what his mom said and ken goes screaming to his parents.....
I personally thought this was amusing..it happend to a *jewish* woman i
know,who chose to leave her sons intact so that one day if they wish they
have the option "looking like eveyronesle"
"Dave {Reply Address in.sig}" <noone$@llondel.org> wrote in message
news:abbaryybaqrybet...@sharra.llondel.org...
> On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 13:28:06 -0800, Michelle wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 17:32:48 GMT, mar...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> >>Thing is Ruthie, penile cancer is very, very rare - in my country
> >>(Canada), we have something like 100 cases a year in the entire country.
> >
> >I did a lot of reading about this before our youngest was born.
> >From what I read, it's rare here in the U.S. too. Lot's more than
> >100 cases a year, though. More like 1500.
> >
> Probably both the same percentage of the population, not sure of
> current figures but I'd guess Canada has about 10% of the population of
> the US.
>
> >From what I read, it depends on whether you're talking about
> >circumcised boys or uncircumcised boys. Uncircumcised boys have
> >just about as many urinary tract infections as girls. More at
> >some ages
>
> I've only ever had one and that was at a time when I seemed to be
> getting all sorts of things so I don't think it was necessarily related
> to the presence or absence of a foreskin.
>
> >>I figure if down the road something happens to my boys that makes
> >>circumcision an idea to correct some medical concern, we'll cross the
> >>bridge when we come to it - and hopefully, they will have some say in
> >>what goes on.
> >
> >I used to feel that way too. I read all that stuff and got
> >completely turned off about circumcision. Our youngest son wasn't
> >circumcised (in spite of dad's wishes). Now he says he wishes he
> >had been because all his friends are. You can't win 'em all!
>
> He's still got the choice now he's old enough to decide. It would be
> harder if he was the only one circumcised. But this is one of the key
> arguments in the for/against flame war so I guess I'm going to regret
> mentioning it.
>
> Dave
> --
> mail da v...@llondel.org (without the space)
> http://www.llondel.org/
> Logic is what you use when you run out of ideas
>
>
Rhonda
Jkknfollett
Why does this make her a troll? Because she didnt post back within 24 hours? Im
confused. I've stayed out of this so far but obviously you dont like what she
had (has) to say so you're calling her a troll. No wonder there is so much
bickering on these groups. Sheesh.
Kari
mom to Kaylie (5) and Noah (21mos)
Magenta Margurite
"Jkknfollett" <jkknf...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20010204085818...@ng-fz1.news.cs.com...
> >Like I said.. not a troll, but might as well be.
>
> Why does this make her a troll? Because she didnt post back within 24
hours? Im
> confused. I've stayed out of this so far but obviously you dont like what
she
> had (has) to say so you're calling her a troll. No wonder there is so much
> bickering on these groups. Sheesh.
>
> Kari
> mom to Kaylie (5) and Noah (21mos)
All of this simply reinforces to me why I usually stick to the company of my
fellow geeks and misfits in the Iron Maiden and Goon Newsgroups for serious
conversation.
'Normal' people seem to be incapable of rational thought.
Thank goodness there are better sources than this of information on
pregnancy.
Magenta.
Who will be unsubscribing as soon as this thread dies.
Ruthie
something wrong with my brain. Gotcha lmfao.
--
Ruthie, proud momma of Rachel, 1-22-98, and ??????, EDD 9-10-01
"Magenta Margurite" <magenta.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ed2f6.14001$LQ2.2...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee
If she had been though she'd know what a hot topic circumcision is. That's
all I think about it. But everyone can block certain topics and if you
don't like circ threads you didn't have to read this one. Personally I
don't have any senders or topics blocked. I just have better will-power
then I used to and only reply to certain threads and posters, and ignore the
ones I don't like. Lol.
Later, Sophie
Ruthie
--
Ruthie, proud momma of Rachel, 1-22-98, and ??????, EDD 9-10-01
"SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee" <fakea...@home.com> wrote in message
news:t7qt0v6...@corp.supernews.com...
SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee
Nope. I just don't open his posts and I delete them when I sign off. I
used to have people blocked but sometimes a really good discussion came from
the other posts in the thread and I'd miss it. So I stopped blocking people
and topics.
Later, Sophie
Michelle
wrote:
>true story
Your true story is the opposite of the situation with our
youngest. He knows the difference, all right. His friends are and
he isn't. He dislikes being different, so much so that we are
thinking that we might do something about it. Sure he has a
choice, sort of (depending on what we decide), but he thinks we
should have made the choice for him, like his friends parents
did.
Melody
Michelle in Canada
Melody <wik...@cdc.net> wrote in message news:3A7D8AED...@cdc.net...
> Why not just teach the kid to stop showing his penis to people? :)
Melody!!! LOL
--
Michelle in Canada mom to:
Matthew(25/06/93)
Ryan(04/05/00)
and #3 EDD(17/07/01)
j47
Some of the best posts on this topic have come from Europe because it is
not an emotional issue there, in fact not an issue at all. But it was in
the UK until the 1950s. I think the internet is making it a bigger issue in
the US because information on the topic is so easy to look up. There is a
whole library available on this topic at www.cirp.org . And there are
numerous discussion groups on commercial web sites where parents relate
their sorrowful tales from this ordeal. None of this was available before
the internet. Your experience as a nurse in the UK was certainly valuable.
You could simply ignore posters who resort to name calling. You bring down
the whole level of discussion if you even respond to them.
Michelle
wrote:
>Why not just teach the kid to stop showing his penis to people? :)
What do you propose that he should do at swim class and at summer
camp and that sort of thing?
Agnes7777
>Date: 2/4/01 8:40 AM US Mountain Standard Time
>Message-id: <t7qt0v6...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>I don't think Magenta is a troll; she said she'd been lurking for *weeks*.
>If she had been though she'd know what a hot topic circumcision is.
I guess that would depend on the number of weeks. I've been mostly lurking for
a couple months now (that would be about 8 weeks, more or less), and I don't
recall any particular discussions on the topic.
That's
>all I think about it. But everyone can block certain topics and if you
>don't like circ threads you didn't have to read this one. Personally I
>don't have any senders or topics blocked. I just have better will-power
>then I used to and only reply to certain threads and posters, and ignore the
>ones I don't like. Lol.
>
>Later, Sophie
>
I agree. If someone doesn't like a topic, or if a particular thread (or
poster) becomes annoying, then ignore it, avoid it or block it. Just makes the
most sense to me.
I find the topic of circumcision interesting, and was glad to see it pop up.
But, should I tire of it, it's within my power to get around it.
Ain't life grand?
Agnes
iphigenia
: On Sun, 04 Feb 2001 12:01:33 -0500, Melody <wik...@cdc.net>
To notice that there's a difference between your penis and some other guy's
penis means that you *looked* at the other guy's penis, and I just don't
know a whole lot of teenage guys that would admit to that.
I suspect it'll be less and less of an issue in the future, considering it's
now a 60/40 split pro/con.
Personally, I plan on just explaining to my son why we didn't think it right
for us to do to him. Being different is not the end of the world to me.
--
iphigenia
be my voice in my midnight meditation...
when I wake, be my heart's flotation.
Melody
Hell, I don't know. It was *supposed* to be funny (hence the smiley
face).
Brainstorming...
Can't he change his clothing in private? I went to tons of summer camps
& swim classes. We always changed our clothes in the bathroom stalls.
Wear his swimsuit under his clothing? Face the wall when he changes
clothes? Wrap a towel around his waist & change underneath it? There are
ways to be discreet if he doesn't want anyone to see his willy.
If that's not possible then teach him to say something to the effect of
"Well, why are you looking at my penis anyway? That's rude." I managed
to make it through my childhood without having my peers critique my
private parts... Surely he can too.
I *do* think it's a little extreme to have painful & expensive cosmetic
surgery (and it *would* be considered cosmetic if you're doing it for
looks) performed on a small child. What if he grows up & decides he
liked it better uncirc'ed (my invented word of the day)? It's not like
they can put the foreskin back. That's like getting your 15 year old a
boob job just because all the other girls in her class have boobs & she
doesn't yet.
If it were my child I'd rather him have the self confidence to know it's
okay if he looks different. (after all, we're all at risk of someday
looking "different") I would rather teach him to accept it than to teach
him to be like everyone else. What if that attitude spills over in to
more dangerous things? "Well, Mom, all the other kids drive drunk so I
did too. I didn't mean to hit that tree & kill the three friends riding
with me."
M
Ellen Phillips
> is there an FAQ I could look at to avoid further upset?
>
> Magenta.
Try doing a search at deja.com.
Rhonda
for weeks or not, why come in (after making, what.. one post before?) and start a
brand new thread dedicated solely to a hot topic- and saying in it.. basically..
'what on earth is wrong with the half of you that believe in this' ..
This can be a topic chosen to divide the newsgroup between those who believe and
those who don't. Why do that when you are new to a newsgroup? No introduction
first?
Let me go into misc.breastfeeding and start a topic: "Why I think Breast feeding is
stupid, and other lame things you people do" when I have never posted before. Or
maybe I should go into misc.kids "What on earth is wrong with you people who
homeschool? Don't you realize that kids need outside socialization from other
means besides their parents? You can't shelter them forever you know!!" or
maybe.. "what on EARTH is wrong with you people who are doping up your kids with
Ritalin! how could you do that to your child"................
Sounds like trolling to me.
Disclaimer: for what its worth, thats not what I believe about either of those
topics, I was just trying to make a point. Thats just not a good way to introduce
yourself and have people take you seriously.
cv123
Jkknfollett
think there have been any huge circ debates in that time. (or lately for that
matter) so maybe she didnt realize it was such a *hot topic* I know that is
far fetched for you to believe, and even me seeing as how everywhere you go on
the net where circ is mentioned it's a debate....BUT I understand the OP is
from the UK where circ isn't common practice. From her point of view it
probably seems very strange that it's such a big deal over here. I think that
was her point of posting.... wondering WHY is it such a big deal?
For what its worth, I think circumcision is a relevant topic on this group. I
think it can provide information to parents who are yet undecided on the topic.
This is not to say I enjoy debating it to death, but I think occationally any
controversial posts ... i.e. breastfeeding, cloth/disposible diapers, circ, etc
are going to be brought up on any parenting newsgroup and of course bring
about debates.
Michelle
<preter...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>To notice that there's a difference between your penis and some other guy's
>penis means that you *looked* at the other guy's penis, and I just don't
>know a whole lot of teenage guys that would admit to that.
My youngest isn't a teen yet. Kids probably wouldn't like to
admit it, but they do compare notes, so to speak, when the
opportunity arises (at least that's what my hubby says was the
case when he was growing up).
>I suspect it'll be less and less of an issue in the future, considering it's
>now a 60/40 split pro/con.
Not around here, it isn't.
>Personally, I plan on just explaining to my son why we didn't think it right
>for us to do to him.
We've already done that. But that doesn't change how he feels
about it.
>Being different is not the end of the world to me.
Me either. But then we're adults. I think it's a lot different
for kids, especially boys.
Michelle
wrote:
>Can't he change his clothing in private? I went to tons of summer camps
>& swim classes. We always changed our clothes in the bathroom stalls.
>Wear his swimsuit under his clothing? Face the wall when he changes
>clothes? Wrap a towel around his waist & change underneath it? There are
>ways to be discreet if he doesn't want anyone to see his willy.
My hubby says that kids who did that kind of thing when he was
young were invariably picked on. It was just too obvious that you
were trying to hide.
>If that's not possible then teach him to say something to the effect of
>"Well, why are you looking at my penis anyway? That's rude." I managed
>to make it through my childhood without having my peers critique my
>private parts... Surely he can too.
We're not talking about critique from others, but a personal
dislike.
>If it were my child I'd rather him have the self confidence to know it's
>okay if he looks different. (after all, we're all at risk of someday
>looking "different") I would rather teach him to accept it than to teach
>him to be like everyone else.
Me too. But so far it isn't working out too well.
Michelle in Canada
Michelle <any...@anywhere.us> wrote in message
news:823s7t0dancobrr79...@4ax.com...
I agree with michelle on this one To adults being different is something we
love!! To kids it's instant humiliation!! I'm not speaking jsut on the circ
issue but on any issue that comes up in a child's life. Even explaining to
a child is not going to make them understand. When they are adults maybe
they will better appreciate the situation, but how can you possibly expect a
child of 6, 8, 10..sheesh even some teenagers why you felt you did
something you felt was right for them. They will only see the negative side
of "why am I different".
spect...@my-deja.com
The reason why the fifteen year olds have breasts is mainly because
they are now going down out of the US country to get breast
augmentations. They then proceed to hide this from everyone, including
their parents and everyone else, who are led to believe that they grew
that way and are natural.
The reason why fifteen year olds are suddenly getting breast implants
is because, not long ago, the FDA reacted to public panic (there
was nothing to panic about at the time) by *banning breast implants
in America for girls under 18*. This immediately inspired the girls to
go to Mexico where the cost is less, the choice greater, and they
do not need to get parental permission. This quickly created a
teenage breast augmentation epidemic. The FDA should have known
better. History, with the Prohibition, clearly shows what happens
in cases like this. Furthermore, the council should have studied
the statistics, which show that the majority of US teen breast
implant demand is in the southern states which border Mexico
and have strong Latino cultures, states such as California, Florida,
and Texas which carry most of the implant demand of the nation.
For them to rule as they did begs the question: did they do
this for the plastic surgeons? Mexico loves the ruling, and
the American plastic surgeons love it too. Although they really
lost very little teenage augmentation business, they think that
these young girls will overdo it and return for breast reductions
in just three years or so, and *breast reduction*, in America, is
a somewhat bigger money maker than is augmentation (breast reductions
are free, augmentation is not). The American plastic surgeons
fully expect to make more profits as the result of this ill fated
FDA ruling. Meanwhile, elitist controlled American media continues
to cover up the great blooper, lest the American government be
seen as responsible. Nothing can now be done about it, the damage
has been done, so all they can do is cover it all up.
>
> If it were my child I'd rather him have the self confidence to know
it's
> okay if he looks different. (after all, we're all at risk of someday
> looking "different") I would rather teach him to accept it than to
teach
> him to be like everyone else. What if that attitude spills over in to
> more dangerous things? "Well, Mom, all the other kids drive drunk so I
> did too. I didn't mean to hit that tree & kill the three friends
riding
> with me."
>
> M
>
You have a very good point, one that should be discussed more
often. The reasons why girls get breast implants is because of
conformity in its various guises. When the fifteen year old
girl sees that her peers have big perfect breasts, she
feels compelled to get them for herself. When women go shopping,
and everywhere they go, they see women who have big perfect
breasts, they find strong reasons to keep up with Ms. Jones. You
can hardly blame them for acting this way. They are merely reacting
as human beings act. Unfortunately, people in America staunchly
refuse to acknowledge that what they are doing is an act of conformity,
as if admitting so would show that they are weak willed and shallow.
Instead, these people find more specific rationale. For instance,
take Kathy Lee Gifford. Her husband Frank fooled around with a
woman who is three years *older* than Kathy. What did Suzen have
going for her? Try a *really great boob job*. So we have a woman
without a boob job feeling threatened in her relationship, rightly
so, by all the women out there with breast implants. We can hardly
blame her if she wanted to fortify the security by getting a great
enhancement herself, but what she would be doing is actually
*conforming*.In that case she will be getting it because the other women
are getting it. So far, Kathy Lee has refused to conform in this way,
while the extraordinarily boobacious Suzen seems to scoff her for her
"quaint, old fashioned attitudes".
I'm getting too wordy here, but I just want to add that this whole
thing of conformity as it relates to the need for plastic surgery
has a lot more details and complexity to it than one might suspect.
Consider the attitudes of women who have boob jobs. In societies
where breast augmentation is common (eg, California) the difference
between real breasts and fake breasts becomes very blurred. In
Virginia, where breast augmentation is uncommon, most of the men
will say that they prefer real breasts over fake ones. But in societies
where breast implants have become fully accepted, it actually works
out that more men will say that they "prefer augmented breasts"
to real ones. This turnaround is the result of conformity (men adapt
to all the fake breasts), and may help to explain why women with breast
implants will seek to get their friends to take the plunge. The more
women who have them, the reason goes, the better the chances of women
who have them. "The more the merrier". Breast augmented women want
as much company as possible.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Rhonda
> Well, from what I gather, she has only been lurking a few weeks and I dont
> think there have been any huge circ debates in that time. (or lately for that
> matter) so maybe she didnt realize it was such a *hot topic* I know that is
> far fetched for you to believe, and even me seeing as how everywhere you go on
> the net where circ is mentioned it's a debate....BUT I understand the OP is
> from the UK where circ isn't common practice. From her point of view it
> probably seems very strange that it's such a big deal over here. I think that
> was her point of posting.... wondering WHY is it such a big deal?
Sorry, but that was not my point. There are 2 ways to discuss something. One way
is to discuss it, the other way is to debate it.. for example.. 'what is your view'
vs. 'why on earth would you do that' .
>
> For what its worth, I think circumcision is a relevant topic on this group.
Good for you. I think circumcision has nothing to do with being pregnant, but
thats just me. I am in no way shape or form trying to dictate what people post
about, its just irritating as hell to watch a person (who has been lurking and
never post) start off like that and expect people to take her seriously.
> I
> think it can provide information to parents who are yet undecided on the topic.
Yeah.. I get ya, but again, its how you go about something. This person did not
look like she was looking for information. She seemed to be decided on the
subject, just wondering what the hell was wrong with the rest of us (not saying she
said those words, but that was what I got from her post)
> This is not to say I enjoy debating it to death, but I think occationally any
> controversial posts ... i.e. breastfeeding, cloth/disposible diapers, circ, etc
> are going to be brought up on any parenting newsgroup and of course bring
> about debates.
AGAIN - it depends on how you bring it up. I have seen perfectly civilized
discussions on those topics in here- and I have seen knock down drag em out fights
in here. Its all in your delivery.
Rhonda
I should know better then to post on a hormonal day..
Rhonda
they are.. how swollen they are.. how much weight they gain.. and how much
painful sex they are having..
Sorry, but i like joining in pregnancy discussions.. and name discussions.. and
fun discussions.. I leave the hot topics alone- cause I don't care to argue with
people in here.. I am too hormonal for that ;)
Larry McMahan wrote:
> Rhonda <ron...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> : Rhonda
> : Likes to stay away from stay at home, circumcision, homeschool, daycare and
> : breastfeeding debates
>
> Then why do you post here. :-)
>
> Larry
Magenta Margurite
"j47" <j...@j47.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:T9gf6.3$lE2....@nnrp3.sbc.net...
> You could simply ignore posters who resort to name calling. You bring down
> the whole level of discussion if you even respond to them.
Yes, you're right, blame it on the hormones:)
Magenta.
iphigenia
:
: >I suspect it'll be less and less of an issue in the future, considering
it's
: >now a 60/40 split pro/con.
:
: Not around here, it isn't.
Where is "here"? Do you mean your specific community?
: >Personally, I plan on just explaining to my son why we didn't think it
right
: >for us to do to him.
:
: We've already done that. But that doesn't change how he feels
: about it.
If it means that much to him, couldn't he just have it done?
:
: >Being different is not the end of the world to me.
:
: Me either. But then we're adults. I think it's a lot different
: for kids, especially boys.
Well, here I have to disagree with you and the other Michelle. I've never
had a problem with being different. Even when I didn't have any friends
because I didn't fit in, I never tried to conform and be something I wasn't.
You should've seen me in high school, rampantly embracing nonconformism : D
In my religion, we're taught that yes, we are different, we have certain
standards and behaviors that do (and are supposed to) set us apart from a
lot of people. I never had a problem with that because I always understood
that it was for a good reason. I'm hoping that my son will understand that,
like our religious beliefs, him being intact will be something that may make
him look different from other people, but because it's for a good reason, it
doesn't matter what others think.
Tiptoeing through the circ minefield and trying to explain myself as
carefully as possible so as not to set off any flames : )
Jkknfollett
original post was enough reason for you to jump on her and call her a troll
because she mentioned the word circumcision.
Erlewein
these threads like the plague, but I just had a general question about
something that I thought someone here could answer. In my childbirth class,
the nurse said that about 60% of boys in our area are circ-ed. (I'm in VA).
Then she said "But our hospital community is very heavily Latino, so we have a
much lower rate."
Now, I know that many Jews DO routinely get circumcised, and growing up, most
guys I know were, regardless of religion. I am just truly curious what is it
about the Latino culture that makes them so unlikely to circ? Is it a
religious (then why is my Catholic family all circ-ed) or cultural (ashamed to
say I know very little about the culture) thing? FWIW, the majority of the
community here tends to be from central america if that makes any difference.
Honest question, not about to do or not do - just a "why is that".
Thanks - Cyndi
SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee
>Thanks - Cyndi
Wow, interesting question. I have no idea and am looking forward to the
answer. We're in Southeastern North Carolina, military community - wonder
what our rate is here?
Later, Sophie
Victoria Anne McDonnell
> So I can read and feel like I am not alone, when people talk about how > cranky they are.. how swollen they are.. how much weight they gain.. and how > much painful sex they are having..
> Sorry, but i like joining in pregnancy discussions.. and name discussions.. > and fun discussions.. I leave the hot topics alone- cause I don't care to > argue with people in here..
Il make a quick introduction first, my name is Victoria, I'm 21, I live
in Ireland but am American. I've been married almost 7 months and am 16
weeks pregnant with my first.
Anyway, I'll have to agree about hot topics, I was reading some of the
meassage boards on Preg. websites and get annoyed when some idiot starts
an abortion debate on a board read by 1,000's of women who are happy
with their pregnancy and don't want to think about what could've
happened. Circ is always one of those hot topics, and I know the rate
of them being preformed in decreasing in the US, but I don't think this
is due to anyone reading newsgroups and coming to conclusions after a
heated debate. It's just not going to solve anything.
--
Victoria A. McDonnell
http://vmcdonnell.net
h. +353 (91) 589-930
m. +353 (86) 824-9010
"Hell hath no fury like that of a woman scorned"
SSgt. Dylan W. McGehee
>is due to anyone reading newsgroups and coming to conclusions after a
>heated debate. It's just not going to solve anything.
--
>Victoria A. McDonnell
I totally agree.
Later, Sophie
Kathy Cole
>
> In my childbirth class, the nurse said that about 60% of boys in our
> area are circ-ed. (I'm in VA). Then she said "But our hospital
> community is very heavily Latino, so we have a much lower rate."
Huh. I have no direct experience with this (I'm not Latina, nor do I
happen to have Latino friends), but I'll relay what I was told:
When we were in the hospital with Kyle, we would get asked periodically
about whether we were going to have him circumcised. We always said no
for three reasons: no medical necessity, the poor kid had so many
procedures done already and why on earth would we put him through
something that wasn't mandatory, and he's so small I'd be afraid they'd
cut too much off (he went home at under four pounds, as is fairly
typical of that hospital).
I figured that most parents of a preemie in the NICU would have similar
thought patterns (except those for whom there was a religious reason to
circ). I was very surprised when nurse after nurse would tell me that
the Latino parents would tend to have their boys circ'd before leaving
the hospital (as would the African-American parents; there was more
variability among other ethnic groups).
I don't know what the countries of origin tend to be for the Latino
families using the hospital I used, but anyway, there's one data
point :).
--
Kathy Cole ~ kco...@ford.com (w) / ka...@scconsult.com (h)
Rhonda
call her a troll. It was her other posts responding to people that made be
believe that she was ACTING like a troll.
"Maybe not a troll, but might as well be" was actually what I said.
That's a lot different from calling her a troll.
She was exhibiting troll like behavior. Hope that clarifies it for you.
Jkknfollett wrote:
--
If you think this is bad.. just remember, an elephant is pregnant for 645 days!
(that's 21 1/2 months!!)
Helen Arias
}I don't remember saying anything about penile cancer. Luckily I have never
}known anyone who had it (or if they did they didn't tell me). All I meant in
}my post to Magenta was nature intends a lot of things that the majority of
}us agree need to be fixed, helped, changed, cured.
Then why not support infant appendectomies?
H.
Helen Arias
}
}"Ruthie" <journ...@home.com> wrote in message
}news:zFXe6.160202$ge4.57...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
}> I'm glad she didn't let nature take it's course. I really like having a
}> mother.
}
}I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with your brain, how you can
}think the two situations are comparable beats be.
}Or maybe at the moment you're too upset to think clearly.
}
}Magenta.
Well said, Magenta. You are absolutely right!
Her mother was treated once a diagnosis was determined.
RIC removes a perfectly healthy body part with NO diagnosis.
Interestingly, this morning on Good Morning America, Dr. Snyder
reported that the U.S and South Korea are the only two countries
in the world to perform circumcision outside of religious reasons.
She also stated that the AMA does NOT support circumcision as a solution
to the elimination of penile cancer.
H.
Helen Arias
}
}> If it's not necessary, then why is it such a 'Good Idea'?
}> why not just leave it as nature intended?
}>
}> Magenta.
}
}So....nature intended my mom to get breast cancer. Should she have let it
}kill her so as not to disturb its intentions?
Is breast cancer considered a natural process?
H.
}
}--
}Ruthie, proud momma of Rachel, 1-22-98, and ??????, EDD 9-10-01
}
}
}