The sad story of Esther Figueroa
Mark Probert
allegation against Dr. Barrett, and false claim made that Mrs. Figueroa
had tried conventional medicine is addressed, AND REFUTED:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/34e39b95deb99973?hl=en&
A summary of the case:
You misunderstand. Mrs. Figueroa was a very ill woman who apparently tried
Hulda Cure for All Diseases and was snot successful. Here is the true story:
The civil case was filed by Esther and Jose Figueroa of New York City
against Clark, the Dr. Clark Research Association, Century Nutrition, and
several associated individuals. Mrs. Figueroa, who had been medically
diagnosed with breast cancer, sought treatment in September 1998. The court
papers state that she was told:
Dust from her apartment was responsible for her breast cancer.
Returning to her apartment would place her at special risk to develop
leukemia because of her blood type.
She had asbestos, lead, and a lot of copper in her system.
The Syncrometer detected a parasite called "rabbit fluke" inside her breast.
She also had E. coli, asbestos, and salmonella due to improper food
sterilization.
Several teeth should be removed and "cavitations" in her lower jaw should be
scraped out.
The suit also charged that:
Clark subsequently arranged for all of Mrs. Figueroa's front and molar teeth
to be removed, prescribed more than 30 dietary and herbal supplements to be
taken during a 12-week period, and badly burned her breast while
administering treatment with a "Zapper" device.
During the 3-month period of treatment, the tumor increased from 1.5 cm to
14 cm.
Despite this fact, Mrs. Figueroa was falsely told that she was getting
better, that tests for "cancer markers" were negative, and that pain she was
experiencing did not reflect persistence of her cancer.
In 2001, the Figueroa family indicated to their attorney (Christopher Grell)
that undergoing a deposition would be too stressful for Mrs. Figueroa. Mr.
Grell therefore petitioned the court to withdraw from the case, and the case
ended shortly afterward. One of the defendants (Self Health Resource Center,
operated by Clark's son Geoffrey) then sued Grell and two associates for
malicious prosecution and abuse of process. Grell responded with a motion to
dismiss, which was granted and upheld on appeal, with an award of costs and
attorneys fees to Grell. The Court of Appeal concluded:
The evidence amply supports a reasonable belief on the part of these
defendants [Grell and associates] that plaintiff [the Self Health Resource
Center] was part of a network of persons and entities who acted recklessly,
at best, luring Mrs. Figueroa into a bizarre, grotesque, and extremely
expensive regimen of "alternative" cancer treatments which has no effect
other than to exhaust the Figueroa's life savings and divert Mrs. Figueroa
from conventional treatments, thereby reducing her prospects for recovery
and survival [15].
15. Sepulveda J. Decision of the Court of Appeal of the State of
California,First Appellate District, Division Four, in Self Health
Resource Center v Christopher Grell et al. A098285 (Alameda County
Superior Court No. 2001-030441). Filed May 19, 2003.
The case was eventually dismissed as Mrs. Figueroa was too ill to travel
to court ordered depositions in California. Hulda's Henchmen had managed
to drag the case out knowing that her medical condition would
deteriorate to that point.
If anyone claims that this is an innacurate summary, or that Mrs.
Figueroa had tried conventional treatment before the quackery, they
should be prepared to prove it.
Jan Drew
"Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:5roBg.2753$3U4...@fe12.lga...
> The sad story of Ester Figueroa, killed by Hulda Clark. Every false
> allegation against Dr. Barrett, and false claim made that Mrs. Figueroa
> had tried conventional medicine is addressed, AND REFUTED:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/34e39b95deb99973?hl=en&
www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html
OLD news. Bored--again Disbarred attorney. With an INSANE need to argue.
<BreastimplantAwareness.org>
the Court's Order ... but the plaintiff's allegations.
I don't have access to her medical records, and would be very hesitant
to believe Barrett/Probert ... Probert was disbarred by the NY Supreme
Court and under oath, Barrett claimed that he had no recollection of
"ever callilng anyone a Quack."
So much for their dubious facts.
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWAtch.htm
I am of the opinion, that the mad Quackbuster Regime used Mrs Figueroa
to attack Dr. Clark with yet another harassment suit.
Putting an ill woman on the frontline of their Maniacal War is, worse
than "sad."
And using Christopher Grell in California????
More abuse on her!
Grell (who I fully believe is the epitome of a Malicious Prosecutor)
sued me for libel when I no knowledge of him.
He was severly reprimanded in the Appeals Court as Judges look very
sternly on attorney's filing frivilous suits ... especially when Grell
was also a losing Plaintiff against me!
He also sued me for being "in conspiracy" with people I had never
heard of before.
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm
COURT ORDER THE FIGUEROAS ARE BARRED FROM TESTIFYING IN OWN CASE
Upon a motion from one of the defendants based upon the Figueroas
refusal to attend a deposition, the Court orders that they are barred
from testifying at trial.
The effect of this is that the Figueroas will not be allowed to
testify at their own trial. All efforts to take their deposition and
find out the merits, if any, of their case were refused by them and
their counsel.
COURT ORDER REQUIRING PLAINTIFF'S TO FILE SECURITY
Court finds that "...there is no reasonable possibility that
Plaintiffs, ESTHER FIGUEROA and JOSE FIGUEROA will prevail in this
action..." against Dr. Hulda Clark. The Court also orders that the
Plaintiffs post $20,000.00 as security if they want to proceed with
the case. The Figueroas fail to post the ordered security.
FIGUEROAS'S ATTORNEYS WITHDRAW FROM CASE
Attorney Christopher Grell and his law firm file a motion with the
Court to be allowed to withdraw from the case.
The motion is taken off calendar when the Figueroas terminate Grell's
representation as their attorney.
Imagine
"<BreastimplantAwareness.org> >" <<B...@mundo.com> wrote in message
news:dbncd21bufnhs5if9...@4ax.com...
Huh?
>
>
>
>
Mark Probert
>> Putting an ill woman on the frontline of their Maniacal War is, worse
>> than "sad."
>>
>> And using Christopher Grell in California????
>>
>> More abuse on her!
>>
>> Grell (who I fully believe is the epitome of a Malicious Prosecutor)
>> sued me for libel when I no knowledge of him.
>>
>> He was severly reprimanded in the Appeals Court as Judges look very
>> sternly on attorney's filing frivilous suits ... especially when Grell
>> was also a losing Plaintiff against me!
>>
>> He also sued me for being "in conspiracy" with people I had never
>> heard of before.
>>
>> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm
>>
>> http://healthfreedomlaw.com/
A website run by...Timmy Bolen...who, IMNSHO, has no credibility.
>>
>> COURT ORDER THE FIGUEROAS ARE BARRED FROM TESTIFYING IN OWN CASE
>>
>> Upon a motion from one of the defendants based upon the Figueroas
>> refusal to attend a deposition, the Court orders that they are barred
>> from testifying at trial.
>>
>> The effect of this is that the Figueroas will not be allowed to
>> testify at their own trial. All efforts to take their deposition and
>> find out the merits, if any, of their case were refused by them and
>> their counsel.
Spinning...Bolen's expertise....she could not handle a cross country
trip since the defendants had drawn out the proceedings to the point
where they knew she would be too sick to travel.
Mrs. Figueroa had NO CHOICE but had to sue Hulda Clark in California
since Clark had no personal connection with New York.
>> COURT ORDER REQUIRING PLAINTIFF'S TO FILE SECURITY
>>
>> Court finds that "...there is no reasonable possibility that
>> Plaintiffs, ESTHER FIGUEROA and JOSE FIGUEROA will prevail in this
>> action..." against Dr. Hulda Clark. The Court also orders that the
>> Plaintiffs post $20,000.00 as security if they want to proceed with
>> the case. The Figueroas fail to post the ordered security.
Of course they could not post it. The woman had given Hulda Clark all of
her money, and she was too sick to work.
>> FIGUEROAS'S ATTORNEYS WITHDRAW FROM CASE
>>
>> Attorney Christopher Grell and his law firm file a motion with the
>> Court to be allowed to withdraw from the case.
>>
>>
>> The motion is taken off calendar when the Figueroas terminate Grell's
>> representation as their attorney.
>
> Huh?
Grell practices in California, the Figueroa's reside in New York. Mrs.
Figueroa became too ill to attend court ordered discovery IN CALIFORNIA
where Hulda Clark resided, thus making it impossible for her case to
continue, since her testimony was necessary. Grell was forced to withdraw.
Ilena Rose <>
Mark S Probert was disbarred by the NY Supreme Court and instead of
admitting it ... compounded his lies with more lies:
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/PropagandistProbert.html
and he claims that attorney Negrete's website:
>A website run by...Timmy Bolen...who, IMNSHO, has no credibility.
Three Appeals Court Judges wrote this about Stephen Barrett, the King
of the Healthfrauds:
" ... biased, and unworthy of credibility."
More at:
Ilena Rose <>
away around at 58 ...
She was diagnosed with breast cancer ... she went the total Con Med
route ... mastectomy ... chemo ... radiation ... and then was sold
the latest and greatest 'safe' breast implants ...
She died a few years later.
The last years of her life she spent hundreds of thousands of dollars
... spent enormous amounts of time recovering from the treatments that
were supposed to save her life ... and suffered greatly.
And no ... not one penny was refunded to herfamily by the medical
industry when she died.
Jan Drew
Jan Drew
"Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mIrBg.7758$gY6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
http://www.healthfreedomlaw.com/Welcome%20Clark%20Fights%20Back%20-%20Figueroa%20Dismissed.htm
http://www.savedrclark.net/by_whom.htm
Mark Probert
After I have carefully reviewed the BolenBilge website, I have yet to
find one word that refutes my summary. That website consists of personal
attacks on Attorney Grell and NO facts that refute what I summarized.
To be able to refute my summary, an intelligent person would have to use
the court documents and/or a time line of all events.
Ilena Rose
unlicensed Stephen Barrett's personal attacks deleted and this obvious
disinformation deleted:
>, I have yet to find one word that refutes my summary.
He also can't "find" his disbarment order which is here:
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/sandraprobert.htm
As far as refuting Barrett/Probert's 'summary' ...
Peter Bowditch
>"Imagine" <nohe...@nohell.com>
>
>Huh?
It's a cultural reference, Jan. Look up the clause "Imagine there's no
heaven" in Google. Don't forget the surrounding quote marks.
Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try.
No hell below us,
Above us only sky.
It's from one of the most famous and well-known popular songs of all
time, but I am not surprised that you don't recognise it.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Mark Probert
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> The sad story of Ester Figueroa, killed by Hulda Clark. Every false
>> allegation against Dr. Barrett, and false claim made that Mrs.
>> Figueroa had tried conventional medicine is addressed, AND REFUTED:
>>
>>
>>
>>
I am still waiting for some facts to be posted that refutes this.
CWatters
"Ilena Rose >" <<B...@mundo.com> wrote in message
news:jd9dd2tq41v8m0d31...@4ax.com...
> Here's another very sad story of a very good friend of mine who passed
> away around at 58 ...
So even your friends don't believe your "alternative" theories. They prefer
to give modern medicine a shot knowing that it's not perfect but that it
offers the best chance.
Jan Drew
"Peter Bowditch" <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>"Imagine" <nohe...@nohell.com>
>>
>>Huh?
>
> It's a cultural reference, Jan. Look up the clause "Imagine there's no
> heaven" in Google. Don't forget the surrounding quote marks.
>
> Imagine there's no heaven,
> It's easy if you try.
> No hell below us,
> Above us only sky.
Only fools (who have been deceived) would that that.
>
> It's from one of the most famous and well-known popular songs of all
> time, but I am not surprised that you don't recognise it.
That's correct. I'm not into to well-known popular. Never have been.
Reason. I worked
16-18 hours a day for years. I prefer to listen to songs that make sense.
NOT songs by fools. IMO.
> --
> Peter Bowditch
Jan Drew
"CWatters" <colin....@turnersNOSPAMoak.plus.net> wrote in message
news:44d7abb2$0$18537$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
cathyb
Jan Drew wrote:
> SPAMMER. PROVEN LIAR. HarASSER
>
> "Peter Bowditch" <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote:
> > "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >>"Imagine" <nohe...@nohell.com>
> >>
> >>Huh?
> >
> > It's a cultural reference, Jan. Look up the clause "Imagine there's no
> > heaven" in Google. Don't forget the surrounding quote marks.
> >
> > Imagine there's no heaven,
> > It's easy if you try.
> > No hell below us,
> > Above us only sky.
>
> Only fools (who have been deceived) would that that.
Oh, dear. Jan were you trying to say something here?
Try again.
> >
> > It's from one of the most famous and well-known popular songs of all
> > time, but I am not surprised that you don't recognise it.
>
> That's correct. I'm not into to well-known popular. Never have been.
> Reason. I worked
> 16-18 hours a day for years. I prefer to listen to songs that make sense.
> NOT songs by fools. IMO.
Is it just that you hate the English language, Jan?
> > --
> > Peter Bowditch
Jan Drew
Hulda has NO Henchmen.
Telling the same old lies again.
Plus using your jargon--when you could not prove your lies.
FACT 1. YOU lied
FACT 2. Your buddies could see NO lies.
[changing the subject to me]
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/24756020c467ad02
Dec 14 2004
http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0223051/041203stip0223051.pdf
Hulda's Henchmen have agreed that she is practicing quackery and that they
cannot legally sell her crap in the United States.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/1236617a95345bf3
That is my interpretation.
==
Many of your interpretations have been display.
You are still the same old liar. You have always been.
[now watch your buddies ingore that and turn this into another liar liar
game]
>>>
>>> If anyone claims that this is an innacurate summary, or that Mrs.
>>> Figueroa had tried conventional treatment before the quackery, they
>>> should be prepared to prove it.
>>
>> After I have carefully reviewed the BolenBilge website, I have yet to
>> find one word that refutes my summary. That website consists of personal
>> attacks on Attorney Grell and NO facts that refute what I summarized.
>>
>> To be able to refute my summary, an intelligent person would have to use
>> the court documents and/or a time line of all events.
LOL. an intelligent person. Get a new line, Markey.
>
> I am still waiting for some facts to be posted that refutes this.
It was refuted.
>
>
>
Peter Bowditch
>SPAMMER. PROVEN LIAR. HarASSER
>
>"Peter Bowditch" <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote:
>> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>"Imagine" <nohe...@nohell.com>
>>>
>>>Huh?
>>
>> It's a cultural reference, Jan. Look up the clause "Imagine there's no
>> heaven" in Google. Don't forget the surrounding quote marks.
>>
>> Imagine there's no heaven,
>> It's easy if you try.
>> No hell below us,
>> Above us only sky.
>
>Only fools (who have been deceived) would that that.
Pardon?
>>
>> It's from one of the most famous and well-known popular songs of all
>> time, but I am not surprised that you don't recognise it.
>
>That's correct. I'm not into to well-known popular. Never have been.
>Reason. I worked
>16-18 hours a day for years. I prefer to listen to songs that make sense.
>NOT songs by fools. IMO.
Who wrote it, Jan?
Rich
>
> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:ySNBg.2956$9T2....@fe10.lga...
>> Mark Probert wrote:
<snip>
>
> Hulda has NO Henchmen.
>
> Telling the same old lies again.
>
> Plus using your jargon--when you could not prove your lies.
What "jargon"?
>
> FACT 1. YOU lied
FACT: You have never proven any such lie. You have only repeatedly
demonstrated your ignorance of the system of Logic by which Proofs are
constructed. You do not know how to produce a real proof.
>
> FACT 2. Your buddies could see NO lies.
> [changing the subject to me]
This much is true. We see no lies in Marks statements because there are
none. When we are discussing lies, lying, and liars, you ARE the subject,
because YOU are the proven liar in this newsgroup.
<snip>
> [now watch your buddies ingore that and turn this into another liar liar
> game]
YOU invented the "liar, liar" game. Nobody else here casts the label of
"liar" about willynilly at everybody who disagrees.
<snip>
> LOL. an intelligent person. Get a new line, Markey.
>>
>> I am still waiting for some facts to be posted that refutes this.
>
> It was refuted.
That is ANOTHER lie. In fact, it is your favorite kind of lie, claiming that
a proof or a refutation or some other verbal victory has been posted by you
in the past in the assumption that some will take you at your word. If
someone goes searching for the claimed proof and fails to find it, you chide
them for poor searching. When asked for a link or a reposting of the claimed
post, you refuse, obviously because the claimed material does not really
exist, and you know it. That's what a lie is, Jan, making a false claim when
you KNOW it is false. You are a PROVEN liar and a thief, Jan. Stop falsely
accusing others of your own sins.
--
--Rich
Recommended websites:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/
Rich
What a sad, sad life you've led, Jan. Sixteen to eighteen hours with only
the company of preschoolers and your few employees. Those employees must
have hated you, too; You surely didn't turn into a crabby old bitch only
after joining this newsgroup; you've had a lifetime of experience at it. By
your own admission, you've lived your life devoid of music, poetry,
literature, and the other arts. Your only culture outside of your
constipated little business world has been your religion, and you've
demonstrated a remarkable ignorance of that as well. My advice to you is to
turn off your computer. Read great books. Listen to good music. Go to plays.
Take that remedial English course, and try you hand at writing poetry. All
these are fit and joyful activities for a retired person. You obviously
don't share the fun that others of us do in participating in mha. It's only
making you meaner and more bitter. MHA is toxic for you, Jan. It's time for
a cleanse.
Jan Drew
"Rich" blathered. Nuttin-but insults.
Your opinions mean squat to me, Richey.
You have not a clue. What my life has been, nor my sense of humor.
But--thanks for proving me correct. This thread *once again*
turned in to personally trashing.
Your expertise.
cathyb
Jan Drew wrote:
> "Rich" blathered. Nuttin-but insults.
>
> Your opinions mean squat to me, Richey.
>
> You have not a clue. What my life has been, nor my sense of humor.
>
> But--thanks for proving me correct. This thread *once again*
> turned in to personally trashing.
>
> Your expertise.
No, yours, Jan. The first response to Mark's beginning this thread was
you, lying about and insulting someone.
As Rich has said, please do stop falsely accusing others of your sins.
Rich
Jan Drew wrote:
> "Rich" blathered. Nuttin-but insults.
>
> Your opinions mean squat to me, Richey.
>
> You have not a clue. What my life has been, nor my sense of humor.
Not a clue? You just said you didn't have time for music because you
worked 16-18 hours a day. When a Shakespeare referrence was made a few
years ago, you didn't recognize it. Nor have you recognized many other
cultural referrences here. Your "sense of humor" is noticably lacking
when you respond to witty remarks with sharp rebukes. You've told us
much about your life, Jan; we don't need clues. Perhaps the most
telling fact you've told us is that you believe you were poisoned by
the fillings in your teeth. You fell victim to some charlatans, and
either don't recognize it or deep down know that you were cheated and
manage to maintain denial to preserve your own sense of self worth. You
have also told us how you were naively taken in by a manipulative felon
prison inmate who knew just what Bible-thumping jargon would jingle
your bells. You've also told us about your poor relationship with your
brother, and your abandonment of your parents in their waning
years.Yes, we do know a lot about your life, Jan, and it has been an
empty one by any standard.
--Rich
Jan Drew
"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Lo5Cg.17286$%a1.1...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:ShUBg.2598$o27....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>> news:ySNBg.2956$9T2....@fe10.lga...
>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>
>> Hulda has NO Henchmen.
>>
>> Telling the same old lies again.
>>
>> Plus using your jargon--when you could not prove your lies.
>
> What "jargon"?
Mark's jargon. That you cannot see.
>
>>
>> FACT 1. YOU lied
>
> FACT: You have never proven any such lie. You have only repeatedly
> demonstrated your ignorance of the system of Logic by which Proofs are
> constructed. You do not know how to produce a real proof.
FACT: That is a repeated LIE.
>
>
>>
>> FACT 2. Your buddies could see NO lies.
>> [changing the subject to me]
>
> This much is true. We see no lies in Marks statements because there are
> none. When we are discussing lies, lying, and liars, you ARE the subject,
> because YOU are the proven liar in this newsgroup.
Bingo! You can see not lies from Mark Probert. For that matter--any of
your LYING buddies.
Known as--the *gang*
>
> <snip>
>
>> [now watch your buddies ingore that and turn this into another liar liar
>> game]
>
>
> YOU invented the "liar, liar" game. Nobody else here casts the label of
> "liar" about willynilly at everybody who disagrees.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/7495b0c0db4354e3?hl=en&
Tues, May 31 2005
LadyLollipop's favorite game is Liar Liar.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/2e173c1c7a0ecd22?hl=en&
Tues, May 31 2005
You should learn to play backgammon, Jan. It's a lot more fun than Liar
Liar.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/83209ce6c0337d81?hl=en&
Jun 1 2005
I told you I don't want to play Liar Liar. If you press it, I'm going to
repost some of your big ones.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/4301c5d83a53af07?hl=en&
Jun 2 2005
No, Mark didn't. What motive would he have for lying about his mother? YOU
have lied on numerous occasions, the last about ten minutes ago. So shut up,
before I escalate Liar Liar to higher levels.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/4b9d54e9d9633f51?hl=en&
Jun 3 2005
However, in Jan's "mind", once she has determined something is a lie, it
cannot ever be changed to "mistake" or "unclear". This is one of the
cardinal rules of her game, Liar! Liar!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/9818789b500db3a8?hl=en&
Jun 4 2005
She will never do so. When Jan can no longer plausibly deny that she is
wrong, she just shuts up about the subject and finds another way to start
her Liar Liar game as a distraction.
Proof--YOU are a Liar.
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> LOL. an intelligent person. Get a new line, Markey.
>>>
>>> I am still waiting for some facts to be posted that refutes this.
>>
>> It was refuted.
>
>
> That is ANOTHER lie. In fact, it is your favorite kind of lie, claiming
> that a proof or a refutation or some other verbal victory has been posted
> by you
Whoa. Look above at what I posted.
I said nothing about who posted it. I did NOT claim it was posted by me.
Try to follow this thread. See who refuted.
> in the past in the assumption that some will take you at your word. If
> someone goes searching for the claimed proof and fails to find it, you
> chide them for poor searching. When asked for a link or a reposting of the
> claimed post, you refuse, obviously because the claimed material does not
> really exist, and you know it.
You know what I know. Poor Richey.
That's what a lie is, Jan, making a false claim when
> you KNOW it is false.
You know what I know. Poor Richey.
You are a PROVEN liar and a thief, Jan. Stop falsely
> accusing others of your own sins.
I wasn't aware that atheists believed in sins.
ALL sins started with Satan in the bible. Do you believe the bible, Richey?
Your post is *another* sad attempt to cover for Mark's lies. It is a habit.
> --
>
>
> --Rich
>
> Recommended websites:
<snip>
Still recommending proven LIES.
And spam.
Rich
>
> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Lo5Cg.17286$%a1.1...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>
>> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:ShUBg.2598$o27....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ySNBg.2956$9T2....@fe10.lga...
>>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>
>>> Hulda has NO Henchmen.
>>>
>>> Telling the same old lies again.
>>>
>>> Plus using your jargon--when you could not prove your lies.
>>
>> What "jargon"?
>
> Mark's jargon. That you cannot see.
Look up the word "jargon," Jan. Mark didn't use any.
>>
>>>
>>> FACT 1. YOU lied
>>
>> FACT: You have never proven any such lie. You have only repeatedly
>> demonstrated your ignorance of the system of Logic by which Proofs are
>> constructed. You do not know how to produce a real proof.
>
> FACT: That is a repeated LIE.
So prove it.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> FACT 2. Your buddies could see NO lies.
>>> [changing the subject to me]
>>
>> This much is true. We see no lies in Marks statements because there are
>> none. When we are discussing lies, lying, and liars, you ARE the subject,
>> because YOU are the proven liar in this newsgroup.
>
> Bingo! You can see not lies from Mark Probert. For that matter--any of
> your LYING buddies.
I could see them it they told any. You see lies that don't exist.
What "proof"? These links are all just true statements about your favorite
game of Liar Liar.
>
>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>> LOL. an intelligent person. Get a new line, Markey.
>>>>
>>>> I am still waiting for some facts to be posted that refutes this.
>>>
>>> It was refuted.
>>
>>
>> That is ANOTHER lie. In fact, it is your favorite kind of lie, claiming
>> that a proof or a refutation or some other verbal victory has been posted
>> by you
>
> Whoa. Look above at what I posted.
>
> I said nothing about who posted it. I did NOT claim it was posted by me.
> Try to follow this thread. See who refuted.
Your failure to post a link to the nonexistant refutation is noted.
>
>
>> in the past in the assumption that some will take you at your word. If
>> someone goes searching for the claimed proof and fails to find it, you
>> chide them for poor searching. When asked for a link or a reposting of
>> the claimed post, you refuse, obviously because the claimed material does
>> not really exist, and you know it.
>
> You know what I know. Poor Richey.
I know that you know there was no refutation, because if there were you
would have posted a link to it or cut-and-pasted it.
>
> That's what a lie is, Jan, making a false claim when
>> you KNOW it is false.
>
> You know what I know. Poor Richey.
See above. Poor Jan.
>
> You are a PROVEN liar and a thief, Jan. Stop falsely
>> accusing others of your own sins.
>
> I wasn't aware that atheists believed in sins.
Sins against others are greater than sins against religion. I certainly DO
believe that falsely accusing people of lying is a sin.
>
> ALL sins started with Satan in the bible. Do you believe the bible,
> Richey?
Do I believe the Bible is the "word of God"? No. Do I believe the Bible is
an important work which contains wisdom of immense value to mankind? Yes. Do
I know more about the Bible than you do, Jan? Definitely.
>
> Your post is *another* sad attempt to cover for Mark's lies. It is a
> habit.
I don't "cover" for Mark or anyone else.
CWatters
> SPAMMER. PROVEN LIAR. HarASSER
> > It's a cultural reference, Jan. Look up the clause "Imagine there's no
> > heaven" in Google. Don't forget the surrounding quote marks.
> >
> > Imagine there's no heaven,
> > It's easy if you try.
> > No hell below us,
> > Above us only sky.
>
> Only fools (who have been deceived) would that that.
> >
> > It's from one of the most famous and well-known popular songs of all
> > time, but I am not surprised that you don't recognise it.
>
> That's correct. I'm not into to well-known popular. Never have been.
> Reason. I worked 16-18 hours a day for years. I prefer to listen to
> songs that make sense. NOT songs by fools. IMO.
I think Jan must be pulling our leg here.
I went to an exhibition in Ohio a few years ago and right at the top of the
building there was a small circular room with photos displayed on the wall.
Some kids came in and I thought for a moment that my quiet spot was about to
be ruined. In the background the soft music started playing Imagine. The
youngsters went quiet and then started to sing along. It was an incredibly
moving moment that brought tears to the eyes.
Jan Drew
"Rich" <josh...@excite.com> wrote:
666 is appropriate for you....
>
> Jan Drew wrote:
>> "Rich" blathered. Nuttin-but insults.
>>
>> Your opinions mean squat to me, Richey.
>>
>> You have not a clue. What my life has been, nor my sense of humor.
>
> Not a clue? You just said you didn't have time for music because you
> worked 16-18 hours a day. When a Shakespeare referrence was made a few
> years ago, you didn't recognize it. Nor have you recognized many other
> cultural referrences here. Your "sense of humor" is noticably lacking
> when you respond to witty remarks with sharp rebukes. You've told us
> much about your life, Jan; we don't need clues. Perhaps the most
> telling fact you've told us is that you believe you were poisoned by
> the fillings in your teeth. You fell victim to some charlatans, and
> either don't recognize it or deep down know that you were cheated and
> manage to maintain denial to preserve your own sense of self worth.
Ahh. This was the beginning of the trashing. I know no such thing.
>You have also told us how you were naively taken in by a manipulative felon
> prison inmate who knew just what Bible-thumping jargon would jingle
> your bells.
I told no such thing. In fact, Manuel calls me every week. He has regained
his weight, and is doing well. This is August. Last year he was told he
had three
months to live. I still believe in miracles--from GOD.
You've also told us about your poor relationship with your
> brother,
And I have also told how that has changed.
and your abandonment of your parents in their waning
> years.
Wow! I did not tell that. That was Richard H Jacobson.
Proven liar and harraser. It was also told by trash mouth Andrew Kingoff.
More proof you believe liars.
Yes, we do know a lot about your life, Jan, and it has been an
> empty one by any standard.
>
> --Rich
Your and the *gangs* standards.
Matter of FACT, I just visited the nursing home today to see the sister (she
has MS
and can't even turn over in bed) of the angel nurse that is caring for my
mom.
They said you are so funny. You always bring cheer here.
I could tell you what is going on in my life right now. However, that is a
waste
of my time.
Believe whatever you wish, Richey. What you have just posted is LIES.
Do prove your claims. Show us where I said the things that I just refuted.
You cannot.
Jan Drew
"cathyb" <cathyb...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:1155099740.2...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jan Drew wrote:
>> "Rich" blathered. Nuttin-but insults.
>>
>> Your opinions mean squat to me, Richey.
>>
>> You have not a clue. What my life has been, nor my sense of humor.
>>
>> But--thanks for proving me correct. This thread *once again*
>> turned in to personally trashing.
>>
>> Your expertise.
>
> No, yours, Jan. The first response to Mark's beginning this thread was
> you, lying about and insulting someone.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/34e39b95de...
www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html
OLD news. Bored--again Disbarred attorney. With an INSANE need to argue.
>
> As Rich has said, please do stop falsely accusing others of your sins.
As Rich said..........................
LOL!!
Jan Drew
>
> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:oAfCg.4874$1f6...@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:Lo5Cg.17286$%a1.1...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>>
>>> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ShUBg.2598$o27....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Mark Probert" <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ySNBg.2956$9T2....@fe10.lga...
>>>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hulda has NO Henchmen.
>>>>
>>>> Telling the same old lies again.
>>>>
>>>> Plus using your jargon--when you could not prove your lies.
>>>
>>> What "jargon"?
>>
>> Mark's jargon. That you cannot see.
>
> Look up the word "jargon," Jan. Mark didn't use any.
>
>
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> FACT 1. YOU lied
>>>
>>> FACT: You have never proven any such lie. You have only repeatedly
>>> demonstrated your ignorance of the system of Logic by which Proofs are
>>> constructed. You do not know how to produce a real proof.
>>
>> FACT: That is a repeated LIE.
>
> So prove it.
Been proven many times.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/345ba1e902197bd5
Wed, Aug 9 2006 7:06 pm
Jan. These statements are not scientific claims, and do not require "proof"
any more than you are required to "prove" that you have a husband named
James or that you have Bichon Frise dogs. To ask for such proof is just
bitchy pettiness.
==
Exposed again--your double standards.
And..
Your insults. Plus your usual trying to cover for another one with your
belief.
Scientific claims were discused.
Byan stated:
That HIV patients don't
>> survive long without therapy? The life-expectancy of our patients under
>> HIV treatment?
>> The first two are easily determined by a quick search of the net. I
>> think even john's whale.to page agrees that HIV patients die pretty
>> quickly without therapy.
>"...deaths from conventional deaths"? Time for that remedial English
>course,
Jan.
So you say...repeating your proven lying buddy diversions.
> The FDA--AMA. Organized medicine.
> Corrupt. Liars.
> Opinions of Quack Quack.
<plagiarized material snipped>
Back to your plagiaristic ways.
Double ZZzz. You use this game when the truth is posted.
I don't normally post Quack Quack websites.
More opinions of Barrett.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/86a2e9313df377ff?hl=en&
May 29 2000
>From: Keyser Soze backc...@netexpress.net Date: 05/29/2000 9:19 AM US
>Eastern Standard Time Message-id:
><F69F40C8E0CCC813.AA4BBC3418E64BA0.AE0A7B8725D27...@lp.airnews.net>
>x-no-archive: yes
>On 29 May 2000 03:57:55 GMT, jdrew63...@aol.com (JDrew63929) wrote:
>>Great Post!
> Thanks.
>>You don't have to do much digging to find that much of Barratt's writing
>>are strictly his opinion. Others here would lead one to believe they are
>>backed
>by
>>facts.
>>Stating that no further research needs done, is absurd. His goal seems to
>be
>>to stop all alternative, rather than bringing conventional and alternative
>>together.
> Barrett is a businessman. He's in the business of selling books.
> Unfortunately, it's in the guise of doing the public a favor by
> illuminating the hucksters. In short, he's in the business of duping
> people.
> Alternative healthcare isn't perfect. And yet - neither is traditional
> medicine. And yet, there's precious little criticism that he has for his
> "home team". Interesting. How biased, huh? Barrett is NOT a man of
> science. He's a man of lies, half truths, and hatred for all things of
> which his little mind is incapable of understanding.
Right on!!
Jan
>Backcrkr
>http://www.geocities.com/cbpdoc/ --
>When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. --Henny
>Youngman
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> FACT 2. Your buddies could see NO lies.
>>>> [changing the subject to me]
>>>
>>> This much is true. We see no lies in Marks statements because there are
>>> none. When we are discussing lies, lying, and liars, you ARE the
>>> subject, because YOU are the proven liar in this newsgroup.
>>
>> Bingo! You can see not lies from Mark Probert. For that matter--any of
>> your LYING buddies.
>
> I could see them it they told any.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuureeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
You see lies that don't exist.
Another proven lie.
Whatever, Richey.
Nobody has been falsely accused. The lies have been proven with
their very own words. You call your FACTS...errors.
>
>>
>> ALL sins started with Satan in the bible. Do you believe the bible,
>> Richey?
>
> Do I believe the Bible is the "word of God"? No. Do I believe the Bible is
> an important work which contains wisdom of immense value to mankind? Yes.
> Do I know more about the Bible than you do, Jan? Definitely.
Prove it.
>
>
>>
>> Your post is *another* sad attempt to cover for Mark's lies. It is a
>> habit.
>
> I don't "cover" for Mark or anyone else.
What a liar.
> --
>
>
> --Rich
>
> Recommended websites:
PLONK
Jan Drew
Saying that *I* said the things, I did NOT say.
Proven liars Richard H Jacobson & trash mouth Andrew Kingoff said.
See below. He canNOT prove his lying claims.
"Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:e0yCg.5478$9T3....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
Rich
>
> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:fIpCg.17401$%a1.1...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>>
>>> Richey?
>>
>> Do I believe the Bible is the "word of God"? No. Do I believe the Bible
>> is an important work which contains wisdom of immense value to mankind?
>> Yes. Do I know more about the Bible than you do, Jan? Definitely.
>
> Prove it.
That's easy. It's a simple challenge. You pick any passage or verse out of
the Bible, and tell us in your own words what it means. I'll do the same.
Then you pick one for me to explain, and I'll do the same for you. This
shouldn't be difficult; it's done by a million Sunday School teachers every
Sunday morning.
The proof that I know more about the Bible than you? It's the simple fact
that I am not afraid of this challenge, but you are and will not do it.
Prove me wrong. I double-dog dare you.
Jan Drew
>
> "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:wB8Dg.11236$gY6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:fIpCg.17401$%a1.1...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>>>
>>>> ALL sins started with Satan in the bible. Do you believe the bible,
>>>> Richey?
>>>
>>> Do I believe the Bible is the "word of God"? No. Do I believe the Bible
>>> is an important work which contains wisdom of immense value to mankind?
>>> Yes. Do I know more about the Bible than you do, Jan? Definitely.
>>
>> Prove it.
>
> That's easy. It's a simple challenge. You pick any passage or verse out of
> the Bible, and tell us in your own words what it means. I'll do the same.
> Then you pick one for me to explain, and I'll do the same for you. This
> shouldn't be difficult; it's done by a million Sunday School teachers
> every Sunday morning.
>
> The proof that I know more about the Bible than you? It's the simple fact
> that I am not afraid of this challenge, but you are and will not do it.
> Prove me wrong. I double-dog dare you.
LOL! Now--PROVE it.
NOT your challenges!
> --
>
>
> --Rich
>
> Recommended websites:
Plonk--Plunk- delete spam + proven lies.
Jan Drew
He LIED. AGAIN
"Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:7K8Dg.11239$gY6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
Rich
Fair enough. YOU tell us what would constitute proof for you.
Rich
Oh, and for a little evidence, I KNEW that the Ten Commandments are part of
the Jewish Torah. You didn't.
Jan Drew
Your baiting is noted. Now--PROVE IT.
I am still waiting for you to prove your lies.
> --
>
>
> --Rich
>
> Recommended websites:
Rich
The only way to prove superior knowledge is to compare knowledge. If you
prefer not to call it a challenge, so be it. If you have any suggestions as
to the design of a better test, let's hear them. Until then your refusal to
to demonstrate any knowledge of the Bible whatsoever will be accepted as
acknowledgement that I do, indeed, know more about the subject than you.
Rich
(Of course Jan will protest that I don't know what she knows or doesn't
know.)
1. The first five books of the Bible are called the "Pentateuch" and are
essentially translations of the Jewish Torah. They were once thought to have
been written by Moses, but we now know that they are the result of a process
with which Jan is quite familiar, cut-and-paste. It was noticed centuries
ago that much of this section of the Bible is repetitive; there are two
creation stories, two stories of Noah's flood, etc. So it appeared that the
material from two sources had been shuffled together like a deck of cards.
Then some redundancy was found in one of these sources and attributed to a
third source. Finally it was noticed that the book of Deuteronomy is very
different from the other books of the Pentateuch; different vocabulary,
different writing style, and different emhpasis, so that book is attributed
to yet a forth source. So now, it is generally accepted that the first four
books are "redacted," that is, edited together to make a single readable
story.
2. It wasn't decided what material was to be included in what we call the
"Bible" until hundreds of years after the death of Christ. Much Jewish and
early Christian writing was excluded, and the writings that at one time been
included in some version of the Bible but have since been removed are called
the Apocrypha. Other works that have never been included in the Bible but
are similar in nature or relate to Biblical history are called
pseudepigrapha.
3. There are many things popularly believed to be in the Bible that are not.
For example, the Bible never describes the Israelites being forced to build
the Egyptian pyramids. The admonition, "Neither a borrower nor a lender be,"
is not in the Bible, but is a line from 'Hamlet.' (That's a play by
Shakespeare, Jan.) Eve never bit into an apple to invent sin. It was a
forbidden fruit, but whatever it was, it wasn't an apple. Considering the
tropical nature of the Garden of Eden, it was more likely a Mango. The Bible
does not say Jesus was born on December 25, and of course, he wasn't. (The
shepherds wouldn't have been in the fields, "...watching their flocks by
night" in the winter time.)
The list goes on...
Jan Drew
So--you cannot prove it.
I am still waiting for you to prove your LIES.
Especially the last one.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.health/msg/94a3fc32777f416c
Wed, Aug 9 2006 12:18 am
You've have also told
your abandonment of your parents in their waning
years.
>> --
>>
>>
>> --Rich
>>
>> Recommended websites:
>
>
Jan Drew
No, that is not the only way.
YOU made the claim--YOU prove it.
Then prove this:
Rich
YES! The only way to prove one thing is better than another is to compare
them.
>
> YOU made the claim--YOU prove it.
I did, by the fact that you are running away from a comparison.
>
> Then prove this:
>
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.health/msg/94a3fc32777f416c
>
> Wed, Aug 9 2006 12:18 am
>
>
> You've have also told
> your abandonment of your parents in their waning
> years.
The does not require proof.