Does kuRaL 397 promote the study of languages?

[Jean-Luc Chevillard]

Dear MinTamil list members,

I would be interested in having your opinion on the following question:

Does kuṟaḷ 397 promote the study of other languages by Tamil speakers
(and by the speakers of other languages)
or is its original purport different
(promoting for instance the study of geography ...?)

யாதானு நாடாமா லூராமா லென்னொருவன்
சாந்துணையுங் கல்லாத வாறு (குறள் 397)

-- ழான் [Jean-Luc Chevillard] (Paris, and soon Pondichery)

[Hari Krishnan]

On 30 May 2011 13:26, Jean-Luc Chevillard <jeanluc.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear MinTamil list members,

I would be interested in having your opinion on the following question:

Does kuṟaḷ 397 promote the study of other languages by Tamil speakers
(and by the speakers of other languages)
or is its original purport different
(promoting for instance the study of geography ...?)


யாதானு நாடாமா லூராமா லென்னொருவன்
சாந்துணையுங் கல்லாத வாறு (குறள் 397)

Dear Jean,

Interesting question indeed.  There are several factors to be kept in mind, while deducing what Thiruvalluvar probably implied:

1) The definition and scope of the term கல்வி or education was very much limited to learning of languages and mathematics, as exemplified in Kural

எண்ணென்ப ஏனை எழுத்தென்ப இவ்விரண்டும்

கண்ணென்ப வாழு முயிர்க்கு.

2) The details of topography in Mahabharata and Ramayana are brilliantly closer to the present day (especially the description of landscape in நாடவிட்ட படலம் of கம்பராமாயணம்).  Yet, I am not able to think of the study of Geography as a separate subject.  

3) The way we approach and define கல்வி differs to a great extent from that of the olden times.

However, going by the use of two separate words நாடு and ஊர் in the Kural you have quoted, it can safely be deduced that these two different terms refer to two differing geographical boundaries.  If any Town or City can be my own Town or City, and if every country (or nation) can be my own land, I should, of necessity be able to communicate effectively in the local language, apart from my own.  Is that not the implication?  

Going by this deduction, I am of the opinion that Valluvar wanted everyone to learn more than one language, which is a prerequisite if he has to shift his residence to Any Town or Any Nation.  

Though this point may be averse to a section in the group, I wish to emphasise that a simple study of Sanskrit was enough for people of those days, to travel anywhere from the Himalayas to Kanyakumari.  However much it is hated in Tamil Nadu, the fact remains that it was the lingua franca of those days (and those days are not older than a hundred years). 

I am eager to hear your views on this.  

--
அன்புடன்,
ஹரிகி.

[Jean-Luc Chevillard]

Dear Hariki,

thanks for your reply.

I had indeed on my mind the possibility that the குறள் ஆசிரியர்
might be referring to a bulk of learning, part of which might be in sanskrit.

Regarding Kuṟaḷ 392, which you quote, namely

எண்ணென்ப வேனை யெழுத்தென்ப விவ்விரண்டும்
கண்ணென்ப வாழு முயிர்க்கு (குறள் 392)

I have thought that there is a possibility that "எண்" might have the same meaning as in the மணிமேகலை passage that reads:

கற்பங் கைசந் தங்கா லெண்கண் //
டெற்றெ னிருத்தஞ் செவிசிக் கைமூக் //
குற்ற வியாகர ணமுகம் பெற்றுச்

What would you say to that suggestion?
(namely that "எண்" refers to one of the 6 vedaṅga-s ...)

Best wishes

-- ழான் [Jean-Luc Chevillard] {Paris (until tomorrow morning), and Pondichery (from wednesday onwards) }

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[Banukumar Rajendran]

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard <jeanluc.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Hariki,

thanks for your reply.

I had indeed on my mind the possibility that the குறள் ஆசிரியர்
might be referring to a bulk of learning, part of which might be in sanskrit.

The couplet emphasis the requirement of "கல்வி” for those who goes on trade to various places (sometimes even to overseas).
So it is mandatory for those merchants (வணிகர்கள்), (also for those who goes for the purpose of seeking job) to study the languages (கல்வி)
other than its own.

Here it is not necessary that the other language is Sanskrit; It also might be a local language or any other language pertaining to the places wherever these merchants goes. It is also noted here that the variant of Prakrit & Pali were spoken by the peoples in those days!

The beauty of the couplets is quiet apt even in the present days & equally applicable to all the peoples across the globe!



wr,

RBK










 

[N. Ganesan]

On May 30, 10:41 am, Jean-Luc Chevillard

<jeanluc.chevill...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Hariki,
>
> thanks for your reply.
>
> I had indeed on my mind the possibility that the குறள் ஆசிரியர்
> might be referring to a bulk of learning, part of which might be in
> sanskrit.
>
> Regarding Kuṟaḷ 392, which you quote, namely
>
> எண்ணென்ப வேனை யெழுத்தென்ப விவ்விரண்டும்
> கண்ணென்ப வாழு முயிர்க்கு (குறள் 392)
>
> I have thought that there is a possibility that "எண்" might have the same
> meaning as in the மணிமேகலை passage that reads:
>
> கற்பங் கைசந் தங்கா லெண்கண் //
> டெற்றெ னிருத்தஞ் செவிசிக் கைமூக் //
> குற்ற வியாகர ணமுகம் பெற்றுச்
>
> What would you say to that suggestion?
> (namely that "எண்" refers to one of the 6 vedaṅga-s ...)
>

"eN" in KuRaL (392) refers to Mathematics.
In old India, mathematics was intensely cultivated
in astronomical computations. That is the reason
MaNimEkalai uses "eN" (= math) for astronomy.
"8. Mathematics; கணிதம். எண்ணென்ப வேனை யெழுத்தென்ப (குறள், 392). 9.
Astronomy, including astrology; சோதிடநூல். கற்பங்கை சந்தங்கா லெண்கண்
(மணி. 27, 100). " (MTL)

Since you are interested in Mathematics, an important book to read:
Kim Plofker, Mathematics in India, Princeton.
(Kim was a student of the late David Pingree @ Brown).

A great work I highly recommend for all.

will tell my thought on KuRaL 397 (I'm reading Banu & Hari's posts.)

NG

> Best wishes
>
> -- ழான் [Jean-Luc Chevillard] {Paris (until tomorrow morning), and
> Pondichery (from wednesday onwards) }
>
> On 30/05/2011 15:56, Hari Krishnan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 30 May 2011 13:26, Jean-Luc Chevillard

> > <jeanluc.chevill...@gmail.com <mailto:jeanluc.chevill...@gmail.com>>

> >http://www.tamilheritage.org/how2contribute.htmlTo post to this

> > group, send email to minT...@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > minTamil-u...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at

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