"I do not approve of murder"

[pol.science kid]

hi there everyone... well... this recent... in fact happened
yesterday... incident... rather unfortunate...has had me thinking ...A
family murdered... just behind our block.... A maid..in fact our
neighbors maid...and her two sons..aged 12 and 15.... The woman...had
a reputation... she was promiscous... and it is said the murderer was
one of her jealous lovers... What is more chilling than the
murder...is the insensitivity towards it.. the cold reaction.... i
cant help thinking that if was in fact her employers who were murdered
that case and reaction wouldve been quite different... leave alone her
socio economic standing... even the fact that she was much treated
like a neighborhood slut... some people seem to think she had it
coming... that her lifestyle deserved such an end... A life ended...
three lives.. brutally.... but the speed with which everything has
been swept in.... is life so cheap after all... that no one had time
to shed a tear... so what that she was percieved as a nasty person..
even nature wise... so what if she had been dishonest.... her death
needs acknowledgement.... her murder in fact... and the innocent
children... Murder is a violation of the highest degree... torture and
rape come after it.... how did we become so insensitive... some human
murdered at close quarters it is but an inconvinience for all... no
one will seek justice for her... no one wept for her save one distant
cousin..... Are we so accustomed to crime now.....

[ornamentalmind]

Apparently *someone* else ‘wept for her’ PSK…overall, ignorance is
rampant and media is but one or two people’s opinion.

Perhaps many people cared…perhaps many people’s views were swayed by
opinion. This latter is quite common on many fronts. The apparent
trance people are in is quite deep and represents one area from which
it would seem preferable for humanity to wake up from.

[Vam]

I can't shed a tear at her death.

But I acknowledge deeply your thought of her, of her life, of the
value of her children's lives.

[paradox]

Sad, pol.science; your compassion is a light in a very dark world.

[pol.science kid]

its kind of you to say paradox... but i am no better... i suppose i gave it a thought because she live behind my block.... perhaps i wouldnt have thought about her if i read about the case in the newspaper.. which has me thinking... and orn talked about the media too.... all this sensational coverage of crime as thrilling... has it made us insensitive?... should there not be a more humanist approach...?

--
EverComing

[paradox]

Good questions, pol.science.

> EverComing- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[allan deheretic]

Death is something very hard to emotionally deal with,,  I am glad to see you talking about  their death among friends..  to me murder is always wrong.

Allan

--
 (   
  )   
I_D Allan

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

[ornamentalmind]

To be a little pedantic here, to murder is to kill when such killing
is against the law. Killing is just killing. So, by definition,
murder, being against the law is 'wrong'...at least by some societal
rules.
When a person is put to death for a crime, it is killing but not
murder. Is this too 'wrong'?

On Aug 6, 10:20 am, allan deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Death is something very hard to emotionally deal with,,  I am glad to see
> you talking about  their death among friends..  to me murder is always
> wrong.
> Allan
>

[gabbydott]

Ultimately, death is part of life. Everyone knows this. Just now I find it interesting to observe how everyone makes their use of this truth.

[ornamentalmind]

Here we agree totally gabby...

On Aug 6, 2:26 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ultimately, death is part of life. Everyone knows this. Just now I find it
> interesting to observe how everyone makes their use of this truth.
>

[gabbydott]

But I said it first and it included you. Therefore my definition of 'ultimately' must vary from yours.

Who would approve of murder here?

[allan deheretic]

sorry Orn murder is killing with premeditation,  any one deciding to kill some one is committing murder. the state may not be accountable because it is a non being ..  but those that make the decisions (sentences) and carrying out the act are..  "I was just doing my job." is not an excuse.

Allan

[pol.science kid]

you mean you would hold soldiers in war acoountable for murder.... but murder is more personal isnt it... i dont know any one who has been in a war... but i would like to know... when in in battle... ...when does he actually start killing the enemy....to safe his own life?

--
EverComing

[allan deheretic]

Yes I do Poly  and even more so the people leading them,, no matter which side they are on. if some one breaks into your home and you kill him saving the lives of your family that is not intentional.  

Maybe a better question is who is the enemy?

The enemy I found lies within me,

Allan

[ornamentalmind]

Allan, while murder may be premeditated, almost all definitions
include the notion of it being a crime… of being against the law. To
kill when it isn’t against the law is merely killing…not murder.

http://www.onelook.com/?w=murder&ls=a
http://www.onelook.com/?w=kill&ls=a

Yes, this is a truth of semantics only and perhaps not of a lot of
importance; however, since we only have our words to play with here,
maybe we can use them correctly and in mutual agreement…

On Aug 6, 10:41 pm, allan deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> sorry Orn murder is killing with premeditation,  any one deciding to kill
> some one is committing murder. the state may not be accountable because it
> is a non being ..  but those that make the decisions (sentences) and
> carrying out the act are..  "I was just doing my job." is not an excuse.
> Allan
>
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:25 PM, ornamentalmind

> <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com>wrote:

[allan deheretic]

Orn I did not say it incorrectly   it is semantics  what ever  your view is just general..  and laws vary. an example  if you charged into my home with your guns blazing and I popped or killed you.. that is all I have do is kill you.  but on the other hand if you kill me then it is murder because it was a premeditated act..

Allan

[ornamentalmind]

Yes Allan, I agree that my commentary is general and that laws vary.
What I said was related to the use of the term murder in the English
language only and not associated to any specific area. Each area would
require the knowledge of local law to know when killing was murder or
not.

Your specific example is indicative of how this is relative. Some
areas consider it against the law to kill anyone who breaks into your
home while others do not. Therefore, if I were writing newspaper copy
for each case, the use of the term murder would be appropriate (and
correct) in the former and not in the latter. In both cases the notion
of premeditation wouldn’t enter into the story.

On a little more philosophical and hypothetical note, we don’t have
enough information to know whether the person in your example who
breaks into your house actually meant to kill you so while you would
still say you were murdered the notion of premeditation may or may not
apply

On Aug 7, 6:44 am, allan deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Orn I did not say it incorrectly   it is semantics  what ever  your view is
> just general..  and laws vary. an example  if you charged into my home with
> your guns blazing and I popped or killed you.. that is all I have do is kill
> you.  but on the other hand if you kill me then it is murder because it was
> a premeditated act..
> Allan
>
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:35 AM, ornamentalmind

> <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com>wrote:

[rigsy03]

Considering the rate of domestic violence, one might start at the
dinner table or boudoir!

On Aug 7, 1:04 am, allan deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes I do Poly  and even more so the people leading them,, no matter which
> side they are on. if some one breaks into your home and you kill him saving
> the lives of your family that is not intentional.
>
> Maybe a better question is who is the enemy?
>
> The enemy I found lies within me,
> Allan
>

> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 7:50 AM, pol.science kid <r.freeb...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > you mean you would hold soldiers in war acoountable for murder.... but
> > murder is more personal isnt it... i dont know any one who has been in a
> > war... but i would like to know... when in in battle... ...when does he
> > actually start killing the enemy....to safe his own life?
>

> Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,- Hide quoted text -

[rigsy03]

I assume by the time a soldier, etc. gets to a battle area he/she has
been thoroughly trained to take the enemy's life, position. Same for
police though civil restraints apply, if possible. In society- polite
society- there have been other methods of "killing" off of individuals
or groups.

I hope we get a full report on the downing of the Chinook. Was it an
RPG or a suicide vest worn by one of the Afghan commandos?

I do swat the occasional bug but that's as far as it goes. When duck
and goose hunting, I preferred to gather the wildflowers. Plus a rifle
has a "kick" and hurt my shoulder.

On Aug 7, 12:50 am, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> you mean you would hold soldiers in war acoountable for murder.... but
> murder is more personal isnt it... i dont know any one who has been in a
> war... but i would like to know... when in in battle... ...when does he
> actually start killing the enemy....to safe his own life?
>

> EverComing- Hide quoted text -

[allan deheretic]

Orn the idea is to try and show the difference between killing and murder  and how to draw the line  and that is a difficult question,,  just semantics trying to examine an idea

Allan

[ornamentalmind]

True allan

On Aug 7, 12:53 pm, allan deheretic <dehere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Orn the idea is to try and show the difference between killing and murder
>  and how to draw the line  and that is a difficult question,,  just
> semantics trying to examine an idea
> Allan
>
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 6:25 PM, ornamentalmind

> <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com>wrote:

[pathfinder]

Such a sad story! Obviously, we of society never resolved the issue of
"Who is Thy Neighbor?",

[rigsy03]

Where would you place war on your list? Or is the human race
accustomed to war because it gives a nation its meaning and
identification?

[rigsy03]

What if torture saves hundreds, thousands of lives?

What if a woman chooses to become drunk at a wild fraternity party?
Why are there different standards for judging prostitutes and call
girls? What are "nice" girls? The DSK/maid trial is another pickle.

I think people are sensitive to the news and some stories stay in the
news for a long period but generally the media moves on to the next
day, don't they?

On Aug 6, 7:32 am, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:

[rigsy03]

Jesus would weep. Some say Empress Theodora was a prostitute- it
didn't bother Emperor Justinian.

> > cousin..... Are we so accustomed to crime now.....- Hide quoted text -

[Vam]

Other people have taught me a lot.
But none is a role model for me.
Nor do I think other people's thoughts
taking them as my own or wishing they were.

I am as I am.
There is no other option. In truth.
For everybody else is taken ! Really.

[Lee Douglas]

Could it be a natural function of a growing population I wonder?

[Lee Douglas]

Yes of course it is. The taking of a life is a crime, be murder or
state sanctioned murder, it is all the same to me.

> > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,- Hide quoted text -

[rigsy03]

You are free to believe what you wish, of course, but the practice of
murders, executions, wars and suicide are relative to civil and
religious laws which can be changed and disregarded at will.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Lee Douglas]

Heh yes of course, more subjectivity for the Lee. Yeah I realise
this, and speak of criminal in the more spirtual sin way than from a
point of law.