Default Paragraph Font
gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au
called "Default Paragraph Font". I can't find a way to change it to Arial.
The reason I want to do this is so all the styles based on it change to
match when I change the base font.
I know I can change all the others so they are based on a different style,
but this gets broken if I update my Normal.dot. I can easily change one
style, but to change all of them is a pain.
Thanks
Gordon
Charles Kenyon
You can't change the default character font style. You can change the
default character font, though.
There are really few (if any) styles based on this style, even though they
may look as if they are. Sometimes when it says "default character font +"
it means "underlying font +."
See <URL: http://www.addbalance.com/word/defaultfont.htm> for more on
changing the default font.
--
Charles Kenyon
Word New User FAQ & Web Directory:
<URL: http://www.addbalance.com/word/index.htm>
Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide)
<URL: http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/index.htm>
See also the MVP FAQ: <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/> which is awesome!
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<gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au> wrote in message
news:l7_Q7.4$YH6...@vicpull1.telstra.net...
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Font "style" listed in the Styles list. The concept is not really that
difficult, but Word makes it perhaps unnecessarily confusing.
The default font of any document or template is the Default Paragraph Font
(see below) of Normal style. When you press the Default... button in the
Format Font dialog and change the default font, that is what you are
changing (for the template, in this case). Because many other styles are
based on Normal, changing the font of Normal style has ripple effects
throughout the document, so changing the default font can change the Default
Paragraph Font of many styles. When you first install Word, before you do
any customizing, the default font in Normal.dot is Times New Roman 10 pt
(Word 97 and earlier) or 12 pt (Word 2000/2002). The default font in other
templates that are installed by Word may be different.
The Default Paragraph Font is the underlying font defined for any style. For
Normal style, as noted above, this is the default font of the template. But
for a heading style, the DPF may be Arial 14 pt. DPF is represented as a
character style, but what it really is is the absence of any direct
character formatting. When you select text and apply the DPF, it has the
same effect as pressing Ctrl+Spacebar (Reset Character); it returns the text
to the default font formatting of the style, removing any direct character
formatting.
Now here's where it gets confusing: No matter what the DPF font for a given
style actually is, and even if you have changed the default font (DPF of
Normal style) for the template, the Styles list always displays the DPF
style as TNR 10 or 12 (depending on Word version). Presumably the extra
programming required to make this actually change to display the font
assigned to the style currently under the insertion point was too much
trouble for Microsoft, so the display is static. Once you realize this, you
can stop worrying about it and get on with your work!
In answer to your question, it sounds as if what you want to change is the
default font (DPF of Normal style); to do this, as mentioned above, just
choose the font you want in the Format Font dialog, press the Default...
button, and say Yes when asked if you want this to be the new default font.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
<gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au> wrote in message
news:l7_Q7.4$YH6...@vicpull1.telstra.net...
Klaus Linke
If you define a new paragraph style, you can either base it on some
old style, or on no style.
In case you base it on some old style, any changes you make in the old
base style will ripple through to that new style.
With character styles, you have the choice to base it on some existing
character style, on the "Default Paragraph Font", or on no style --
called "(base properties)" or something like that at the top of the
list.
Whether you base a character style on the DPF or on no style seems to
make no difference at all, as far as I can see.
I think it's confusing to be given a choice when the choice has no
consequences.
It was a bad design decision by Microsoft from the start to treat the
DPF the same as any other character style. This seems to be another
occasion where it becomes obvious.
Regards, Klaus
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbar...@mvps.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:uSnG2DZgBHA.1964@tkmsftngp02...
gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au
I do actually want to change the DPF. The problem I keep hitting is the
display issue. If it doesn't change the appearance in the Styles box on
the toolbar, or in the Styles dialog, how do I tell what it is currently
set to?
Thanks
Gordon
Graham Mayor
the 'normal' paragraph style.
--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
Graham Mayor <gma...@btinternet.com>
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
<gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au> wrote in message
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Suzanne S. Barnhill
which is different from the DPF. If you are using the Normal style and have
not applied direct formatting, then whatever font you're seeing in the Font
and Font Size list is the default font. Also, the font displayed for Normal
style in the Styles list is the default font. For any style you can go to
Format Style and read the style description, which will include the DPF. In
Word 2002, you can (in the Styles and Formatting pane) see a breakdown of
the direct and style formatting applied to any text. You can get the same
information in previous versions using the "What's This?" button (Reveal
Formatting, I think it's called).
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
<gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au> wrote in message
news:e8jR7.2$JW6...@vicpull1.telstra.net...
gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au
I am talking about the DPF! I do not only use the Normal style, I am aware
that the Normal style in the Normal.dot template is not based on the DPF.
As an example of the styles I am talking about, try the Hyperlink style.
It is based on the DPF. When I change the default font using the Default
button on the Font dialog, it changes the Hyperlink style. This is what I
meant by change the font and having the other styles follow. As you
pointed out, it does work, it just doesn't change the displayed
information in the Styles dialog, or drop-down listbox on the toolbar.
Regards
Gordon
gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au
Hyperlink style for example will also change to the new font? That is what
I am trying to achieve, change the font in one place and have all the
other styles change to suit.
Regards
Gordon
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Normal style. Every style that is based on Normal will use this font unless
it has been defined to use a different one. When you press the Default
button in Format font to change the default font, you're changing the font
of Normal style for the attached template.
The Default Paragraph Font can be different for every style; it is just the
defined font for a given style. The display doesn't change in the Styles
dropdown, but each paragraph style will display what its DPF is. The
*entire* meaning of "Default Paragraph Font" is "no direct formatting
applied." It is not a single font but just the default font for a given
paragraph style.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
<gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au> wrote in message
news:myER7.10$na7...@vicpull1.telstra.net...
Graham Mayor
the base style for a number of defaults, then changes to normal style should
be reflected in those new styles, apart from those changes in the new style
that override the normal style settings. Problem is that not all styles are
based on normal style.
Your example of the Hyperlink style is based on the default paragraph font
(which is the font of the underlying paragraph style) thus, if your current
paragraph style is normal, applying hyperlink to that, will result in the
hyperlink attributes being added to the font of normal style. If on the
other hand the current paragraph style is something different, then it will
adopt the settings of that other style.
You can see this in action if you apply hyperlink to a paragraph in normal
style, then apply another style, with a different font to that same
paragraph. The hyperlink attributes will remain, but the font will change to
that of the chosen style. If you want hyperlink always to look the same,
then base it on nothing and set the characteristics you want.
--
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Graham Mayor <gma...@btinternet.com>
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<gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au> wrote in message
news:myER7.10$na7...@vicpull1.telstra.net...
Charles Kenyon
paragraph style applied to the text. If that style is the "normal" style,
then it is the font defined in the normal style. If that style is the Body
Text style, then it is the font defined in the Body Text style.
See <URL: http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm> for more about
styles in Word.
--
Charles Kenyon
Word New User FAQ & Web Directory:
<URL: http://www.addbalance.com/word/index.htm>
Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide)
<URL: http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/index.htm>
See also the MVP FAQ: <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/> which is awesome!
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.
<gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au> wrote in message
news:myER7.10$na7...@vicpull1.telstra.net...
Klaus Linke
Gordon <gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au> wrote:
> No!
>
> I am talking about the DPF! I do not only use the Normal style, I am
aware
> that the Normal style in the Normal.dot template is not based on the
DPF.
You can't base a paragraph style on DPF anyhow.
As to character styles:
Say you base a character style on DPF, and then add some formatting
like "underlined" to the character style. Then applying the character
style will do two things:
First it will apply the DPF (remove any manual font formatting), and
then it will apply the formatting you specified (underlined).
> As an example of the styles I am talking about, try the Hyperlink
style.
(This is a character style)
> It is based on the DPF. When I change the default font using the
Default
> button on the Font dialog, it changes the Hyperlink style. This is
what I
> meant by change the font and having the other styles follow. As you
> pointed out, it does work, it just doesn't change the displayed
> information in the Styles dialog, or drop-down listbox on the
toolbar.
No, the Hyperlink style isn't changed at all. The important thing to
understand is inheritance.
If the Hyperlink style is defined as DPF + blue + underlined, text
formatted in the Hyperlink style will keep (inherit) whatever font is
defined in the paragraph style of the paragraph, because the font
isn't specified in the character style.
If you put a hyperlink into a text formatted in Normal style using
"Arial", the font will still be "Arial". If you later change the
paragraph style (or, in this special case, the "Default Font") to
"Times New Roman", the hyperlink will be formatted in "Times New
Roman". But the Hyperlink style didn't change at all.
If you base your style on another style, it also inherits all the
stuff that is defined in the base style, and only adds the formatting
you specify explicitly.
A good tutorial on styles ("Understanding Styles" from Microsoft's
Legal User's Guide, with notes from Charles Kenyon):
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm
Greetings, Klaus
Klaus Linke
> If you want hyperlink always to look the same,
> then base it on nothing and set the characteristics you want.
Hi Graham,
As I said in my first post, it makes no difference at all whether you
base the character style on DPF or on nothing.
If you want the hyperlink always to look the same, you'd have to
specify all font formatting parameters (size, font, colour, spacing
...).
This way, no formatting is inherited ("ripples through") from the font
formatting of the paragraph style (= DPF).
But it wouldn't make much sense (having a 8 pt hyperlink in a 14 pt
text ...).
BTW: sorry I duplicated much of what you had already said ... didn't
follow the thread carefully enough :-(
Greetings, Klaus
Suzanne S. Barnhill
on the fact that the Hyperlink character style is "DPF+. . ." but now the
question makes sense.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
"Klaus Linke" <fotosatz...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:9v8j01$okc$02$1...@news.t-online.com...
Graham Mayor
I thought that was what I said - certainly it was what I meant :-)
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Graham Mayor <gma...@btinternet.com>
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"Klaus Linke" <fotosatz...@t-online.de> wrote in message
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gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au
item in the Styles list is EXACTLY the same thing as the "font of the
underlying paragraph" that is specified as the basis of several of the
character fonts? That is when one changes so does the other?
My whole intent here is to inderstand how the inheritance works at a
detailed level. I am a programmer, and have trouble working with an
application when I can't work out the logic of the interface.
I want to be able to setup the styles the way I want, such that I can
change the font (and only the font) of a base style, and have ALL styles
change to use this font, but keep any size/indent/colour/whatever
overrides applied in the style. That is for both Paragraph and Character
fonts.
As far as I can tell, doing what Suzanne suggested in her first response
seems to do what I want. The only "problem" is the fact that Word doesn't
display the result correctly. I still don't get why it should display TNR
regardless of the actual setting. Any ideas? Or is there a statement by MS
somewhere that this behaviour is by design?
Thanks
Gordon
Suzanne S. Barnhill
formatting." This changes from one style to another, but the way it is
displayed in the Styles list never changes regardless of what the DPF for a
given paragraph actually is.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
<gben...@rsmbirdcameron.com.au> wrote in message
news:9YYR7.3$Zc....@vicpull1.telstra.net...
Edwina Oliver
I want the DPF to show up as arial narrow 18. I somehow did manage to change the font and wording once (not at same time) but I lost it and want to fix it permanently.