AVI Audio is fine, but Clipping and Distortion in Vision Express 3
Martin
as DV-AVI-NTSC (largest) file. The video and sound quality are
excellent when played back using windows media player.
I then drop the file into Nero Vision Express 3 to author and burn a
DVD. In the preview window, the video looks fine but the audio
contains rattling distortion on the louder passages, sort of a "blown
speaker" effect. It's as if Nero amplified the volume until the sound
started clipping.
I went ahead and burned the DVD to verify that it was not just a
preview issue - it sounds terrible on the finished product.
I tried all three of the audio options - automatic, dolby, and whatever
the other one was.
Is there some hidden setting in Nero that changes the amplitude of the
source material?
BTW, I can drop this same AVI file into Nero Burning Rom and make VCDs
and SVCDs that sound just fine.
thanks,
Martin
Martin
Last night I performed addtional experments, but the audio behavior is
still a mystery.
Since I had saved the original Moviemaker file that produced the AVI, I
re-saved the movie file two more times - once as DV-AVI and once as
WMV. I opened both files in media player, and they sounded identical
(good quality). I then dropped them, one at a time, into Nero Vision
Express to make a DVD. Double-clicking on the icons to open them in
the Nero editor, I found that the AVI version now had bad audio and the
WMV version maintained good audio.
I then opened an unrelated AVI file from another source (my Canon S1IS
camera) in Media Player, verified good audio, dropped it into Nero
Vision Express, and noted that the audio was still good.
So, Nero doesn't have a problem with AVI files in general, but
apparently AVI files that are output by Moviemaker don't maintain audio
quality when dropped into Nero Vision Express. WMV files output by
Moviemaker work fine in Nero, though.
I have also now verified this behavior on two different computers, at
home and at work.
I also located the volume slider in Vision Express and played with it,
but lovering the volume did not affect the relative amount of
distortion. Apparently the problem has already occured before that
step in processing.
best regards,
Martin
Neil Maxwell
<neil.m...@intel.com> wrote:
>On 25 Aug 2006 08:17:38 -0700, "Martin" <funkycha...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>So, Nero doesn't have a problem with AVI files in general, but
>>apparently AVI files that are output by Moviemaker don't maintain audio
>>quality when dropped into Nero Vision Express. WMV files output by
>>Moviemaker work fine in Nero, though.
>
>What version of NVE are you running?
Ooops. Sorry, just re-read the original - NVE3.
Curious - be sure to keep us posted!
--
Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer
Neil Maxwell
wrote:
>So, Nero doesn't have a problem with AVI files in general, but
>apparently AVI files that are output by Moviemaker don't maintain audio
>quality when dropped into Nero Vision Express. WMV files output by
>Moviemaker work fine in Nero, though.
What version of NVE are you running?
Kronk
Hi Martin,
On 25 Aug 2006 08:17:38 -0700, "Martin" <funkycha...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
Well, it'd seem we'd have to determine just what is different 'tween the
MovieMaker & unRelated AVI's, no?
Do you have GSpot v2.52 beta 1?
(apparently v2.60 is in the offing, sometime)
> MAIN PAGE http://gspot.headbands.com
> v2.52 b1 page http://gspot.headbands.com/gspot252dl.html
Install (if not already)
Start GSPOT - MenuBar - Options (click) - Export (click)
Export Setup
General - Enable export [*]
Format - (*) Custom, using format file below
[ {default has a file where you installed GSpot} ]
Output - (however, you want to do it) I have:
- Allow overwrite [*]
- (*) One file per AVI (autoname & location)
[ OK ]
MenuBar - File - OPEN AVI #1
Presto Magico a .txt file is outputted to the same folder as the AVI #1
Repeat steps for AVI #2
(after you've exported the two in question, goback and disable Export)
(in GSpot, unless you want a whole bunch of these everytime you open )
Open the AVI #1 text file w/your flavorite TEXT Editor (wordwrap OFF)
Highlight ALL and COPY ..then PASTE as a QUOTE into your NewsReader
Like this:
(the DEAL is some NewsReaders will NOT word wrap if its QUOTED text)
AVI #1 (movie maker) ..then do same with (un-related)
> --- File Information ---
> File Name: AVI_1.avi
> File Name (with full path): {your path to file}\ AVI_1.avi
> File Size (in bytes): 368,728,064
>
> --- Container Information ---
> Base Type (e.g "AVI"): AVI(.AVI)
> Subtype (e.g "OpenDML"): OpenDML (AVI v2.0),
> Interleave (in ms): 42
> Preload (in ms): 504
> Audio alignment("split across interleaves"): Aligned
> Total System Bitrate (kbps): 0
> Bytes Missing (if any): 0
> Number of Audio Streams: 1
>
> --- Video Information ---
> Video Codec Type(e.g. "DIV3"): xvid
> Video Codec Name(e.g. "DivX 3, Low-Motion"): XviD
> Video Codec Status(e.g. "Codec Is Installed"): Codec(s) are Installed
> Duration (hh:mm:ss): 00:42:57
> Frame Count: 61781
> Frame Width (pixels): 624
> Frame Height (pixels): 352
> Frame Aspect Ratio (e.g "1.3333"):
> Frame Aspect Ratio (e.g. "4:3"):
> Pixel Aspect Ratio ("SAR"):
> Display Aspect Ratio ("DAR"): 1.773
> Frames Per Second: 23.976 fps
> Video Bitrate (kbps): 1010
> MPEG-4 ("MPEG-4" or ""): MPEG-4
> B-VOP ("B-VOP" or ""): B-VOP
> QPel ("QPel" or ""):
> GMC ("GMC" or ""):
> H264 ("H264" or ""):
>
> MPEG-2 ("MPEG-2" or ""):
> Interlaced ("I/L" or ""):
> Progressive ("Prog" or ""):
> Top Frame First ("TFF" or ""):
> Bottom Frame First ("BFF" or ""):
> 3:2 Pulldown ("3:2" or ""):
> Picture-per-field ("PPF" or ""):
>
> - Aspect Ratio Related:
>
> Broadcast standard: "PAL" (else blank)
> Broadcast standard: "NTSC" (else blank)
> src:"VCD", "SVCD", "CVD", or "DVD (else blank):
> Instructions to convert to VCD, first part:
> Instructions to convert to VCD, second part:
> Instructions to convert to SVCD, first part:
> Instructions to convert to SVCD, second part:
> Instructions to convert to CVD, first part:
> Instructions to convert to CVD, second part:
> Instructions to convert to DVD, first part:
> Instructions to convert to DVD, second part:
> Instructions to convert to AVI, first part:
> Instructions to convert to AVI, second part:
>
> --- Audio Information ---
> MPEG Stream ID (e.g. "0xbd"):
> MPEG VOB file Substream(e.g. "0x80"):
> Audio Codec (e.g. "AC3"): 0x0055(MP3, ISO) MPEG-1 Layer 3
> Audio Codec Status (e.g. "Codec Is Installed"): Codec(s) are Installed
> Audio Sample Rate (Hz): 48000
> Audio Bitrate(kbps): 128
> Audio Bitrate Type ("CBR" or "VBR"): CBR
> Audio Channel Count (e.g. "2" for stereo): 2
It's probably the only way anybody 'might' be able to tell. OR at least
allow you to see a DIFFERENCE and then change whatever setting you need
to in MovieMaker to allow those outputted AVI's to thereafter be Encoded
to DVD by Nero Vision Express 3.
Kronk
Martin
different from most other avi files, in a way that makes them
incompatible with other software.
In addition to the sound-quality issues when dropped into Nero, I've
now found another odd compatiblity issue with an XviD converter.
I've been using Auto Gordian Knot to compress avi files for archival,
so that they don't fill up my hard drive so fast. I've now discovered
that avi files made by moviemaker are not compatible. When I select a
MM-generated avi file in AutoGK, it sees the file as zero width/height
and zero frame rate. All other avi files (non-MovieMaker) I have tried
seem to work fine.
best regards,
Martin
Martin
options as yours. However, it did illustrate the issue I'm now seeing
with Moviemaker AVI files in the Gordian Knot XviD converter. Here's a
screen capture of the gspot output:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funky_chateau/detail?.dir=1b31&.dnm=ae74re2.jpg&.src=ph
Notice that all sorts of stuff seems to be out of kilter - no runtime,
no bitrate, no x/y dimensions, no frame rate, no audio channels, etc.
Yet the file itself plays just fine. It just produces distorted audio
if you try to use it in NVE, and won't work at all if you try to use
Gordian Knot to make an XviD out of it. The DivX converter (from
divx.com) accepts it just fine, though, and the resulting DivX file has
good audio and good video..
Martin
Kronk
On 29 Aug 2006 16:28:33 -0700, "Martin" <funkycha...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> I downloaded gspot and ran it, but it does not seem to have the same
> options as yours.
You did DL the v2.52 beta 1?
> However, it did illustrate the issue I'm now seeing
> with Moviemaker AVI files in the Gordian Knot XviD converter. Here's a
> screen capture of the gspot output:
>
> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funky_chateau/detail?.dir=1b31&.dnm=ae74re2.jpg&.src=ph
Couldn't see the page ..it said:
| The File You Are Looking For Is Inaccessible
| Please sign in and try again or check with the owner of the file.
I don't have any sort of account there.
>
> Notice that all sorts of stuff seems to be out of kilter - no runtime,
> no bitrate, no x/y dimensions, no frame rate, no audio channels, etc.
> Yet the file itself plays just fine. It just produces distorted audio
> if you try to use it in NVE, and won't work at all if you try to use
> Gordian Knot to make an XviD out of it. The DivX converter (from
> divx.com) accepts it just fine, though, and the resulting DivX file has
> good audio and good video..
>
> Martin
SO you can get something outputted / converted that'll thereafter be
processed OK by NVE 3. Just don't like the extra step, if so, I
understand. I've never used MovieMaker. So I can't profess to know of
any ins and outs about it.
I'd probably use VirtualDubMod to create/capture an AVI
TMPGEnc 4.0 Xpress to encode/output a DVD mpeg from the AVI
Take the DVD mpeg and use TMPGEnc DVD Author to create the .IFO .BUP
.VOB's in a folder which has the subfolders AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS. Then
allow TMPGEnc load up the app it uses to BURN it to a DVD disc.
Though, at this point, you could choose NERO Burning Rom to BURN a 'DVD
Video' with those files in the VIDEO_TS folder, if you'd rather.
Extra info about usage of GSpot
Hmm, once the AVI is loaded you can try rendering. (I guess that what
its called)
(down at the bottom) Proposed Codec Solutions and Tests
MS A/V [1] & [2] To the right it'll list 'stuff'
Place your mouse pointer/hover over individual items. It'll list whats
being used to 'attempt' to play it.
Something ELSE,
MenuBar - System - List Codecs and other files.
You can use this to scroll down and see if any are shown in RED. ie
something wrong. It could be something missing and needs to be
re-registered in the Registry. OR a had a bad removal of registry
key(s) where part of it got removed but, another part didn't, (seems
they are always in PAIRS) then ends up being show here/there in the
listing but, its really not effecting anything ..just clutter. Only way
to know though, is to back up that Key and then Delete the key. If,
nothing BALKS at its removal. It OK that you removed it. If something
does BALK at it.. then MERGE it back into the registry.
Anyway, those two things (rendering it and checking the Codecs & other
files) might also shed some light on the problem.
Well, that is some extra stuff perhaps getting away from the main
intent. but, some of this in only available in GSpot 2.52 beta 1
Kronk
P.S. Do have a "ExportFormat.txt" file in the GSpot folder?
That is what generated that Export text I pasted in the
previous message... when CUSTOM is selected.
Martin
folder publicly - now you should just be able to click on my link and
see my Gspot output. Second, I did manage to DL the wrong version of
Gspot. Please take a look at what I posted yesterday, meanwhile I'll
try to follow your suggestions to the letter and get new information
today.
Be patient, as I am not an expert in the inner workings of video
software, even some of the terminology is unfamiliar at this point.
Your original post to me was sort of beyond my experience, and I had to
do some reading just to figure out what Gspot was all about :) Then I
followed someone else's link to a download, without looking back at
your version number.
best regards,
Martin
Martin
of Gspot, this one only seems to see a very limited amount of info.
There is still zero bitrate and zero frame rate, which seems to be the
reason that Gordian Knot XviD won't accept it. But for some reason,
players and the DivX converter accept it just fine. And, as previously
mentioned, Video Express accepts it but outputs a DVD (MPEG-2?) result
with damaged audio.
best regards,
Martin
--- File Information ---
File Name: Turn Back The Hands Of
Time Video.avi
File Name (with full path): C:\Documents and
Settings\mjones\Desktop\Turn Back The Hands Of Time Video.avi
File Size (in bytes): 359,508,992
--- Container Information ---
Base Type (e.g "AVI"): AVI(.AVI)
Subtype (e.g "OpenDML"): OpenDML (AVI v2.0),
Interleave (in ms):
Preload (in ms):
Audio alignment("split across interleaves"):
Total System Bitrate (kbps): 0
Bytes Missing (if any): 0
Number of Audio Streams: 0
--- Video Information ---
Video Codec Type(e.g. "DIV3"):
Video Codec Name(e.g. "DivX 3, Low-Motion"):
Video Codec Status(e.g. "Codec Is Installed"):
Duration (hh:mm:ss):
Frame Count:
Frame Width (pixels):
Frame Height (pixels):
Frame Aspect Ratio (e.g "1.3333"):
Frame Aspect Ratio (e.g. "4:3"):
Pixel Aspect Ratio ("SAR"):
Display Aspect Ratio ("DAR"):
Frames Per Second: ***ERROR***
Video Bitrate (kbps):
MPEG-4 ("MPEG-4" or ""):
B-VOP ("B-VOP" or ""):
- Aspect Ratio Related:
--- Audio Information ---
Audio Codec Status (e.g. "Codec Is Installed"):
Audio Sample Rate (Hz):
Audio Bitrate(kbps):
Audio Bitrate Type ("CBR" or "VBR"):
Audio Channel Count (e.g. "2" for stereo):
Kronk
It would appear that you must change the captured DV Video to XviD or
DivX. Re-Encode
In the screencap it shows dvsd and DV splitter DV decoder
dvsd -> fcc Xvid or DivX
DV splitter -> XviD or DivX instead
Multipart OpenDMV AVI -> OpenDMV AVI
However, one msg I read during a GOOGLE of "Multipart OpenDML AVI":
|> http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/26/82733
|
| (about half way down the page)
|
||GreatwoIf
||Newbie
|| 13. March 2005 @ 00:26 Link to this message
||ok I found out the problem. In GSpot, I noticed Multipart OpenDML AVI on
||the first line when I scroll up in the Container area:
||
||Multipart OpenDML AVI, "rec list" style
||(133 frames in first part, 33073 frames follow)...
||
||Apparent the player doesn't understand that. I fixed it by opening this
||in VirtualDubMod and then just saving it again in Direct Stream copy mode.
|
I'd suggest this one:
> VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542.zip from:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=65889
If, in fact, VirtualDubMod does open a DV avi.
This person apparently suggests that the 'dvsd' and etc would be
replaced by XviD.
It might mean splitting out the AUDIO and VIDEO separately. Then
CLOSE video Open newly saved VIDEO w/o Audio followed by adding the
newly saved AUDIO Stream.
A demux & mux process. NO RE-ENCODE'ng just DirectStream Copy
outputting of the Audio & Video and inputting each of.
Load your AVI
Streams - StreamList - Demux save as.. filename.mp3 (presumedly mp3)
[Disable] this sets up the saving of the Video w/o audio
File - Save as.. Filename(noAudio).avi (directstream copy)
File Close file
Open Filename(noAudio).avi
Stream - StreamList - add "filename.mp3" OK
File - save as.. "filename(NEW).avi"
ALSO, it could mean once separated into its components. You could use
NVE 3 to add them in separately. If you RIGHT-CLICK on the track -
Properties ..there you could set the Volume. Though, I'm not sure if
that is just the playback volume or how it'd be encoded... lower
volume.
Kronk
On 30 Aug 2006 07:38:22 -0700, "Martin" <funkycha...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Martin
This file isn't captured video, it's an AVI file that was output by the
editing software "windows movie maker". One of the problems I have
observed is that the XviD encoder won't recognize it as having a
framerate or a height/width.
Kronk
On 30 Aug 2006 12:34:16 -0700, "Martin" <funkycha...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Kronk,
>
> This file isn't captured video, it's an AVI file that was output by the
> editing software "windows movie maker". One of the problems I have
> observed is that the XviD encoder won't recognize it as having a
> framerate or a height/width.
>
> Martin
>
> Kronk wrote:
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> > It would appear that you must change the captured DV Video to XviD or
> > DivX. Re-Encode
> >
Oh, ok, though either way its apparently using the DV codec 'as if' from
a Digital Video camera.
The results from that screenshot of GSpot:
The Video Src type 'dsvd', the 'Multipart OpenDML AVI'
the 'DV Splitter -> DV Video Decoder'
Do seem to indicate that.
What were you doing then, capturing with a Video Card?
analog card? hardware mpeg encoder card?
Well, I'm kinda at a loss for what further to do, not having Moviemaker.
Well, other than use some app that recognizes 'Multipart OpenDML AVI'
and convert it to something else. ..or :-) don't ever use Moviemaker or
NeroVision Express 3 to do the job.
Oh, wait.. d'oh!
from your message:
> Message-ID: <1156437089.6...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
>
> I tried all three of the audio options - automatic, dolby, and whatever
> the other one was.
>
> Is there some hidden setting in Nero that changes the amplitude of the
> source material?
Perhaps in NVE 3
Make DVD - DVD Video - More >> - Video Options
Is this checked or unchecked
[ ] Enable SmartEncoding of Video and Audio material
Compare that to the SVCD VCD both happen to be CHECKED in my NVE 3.
That doesn't mean that I wouldn't have the same problem. Just looking
for some setting that may be causing the audio problem.
Then as I mentioned, in the EDIT portion, there is a option of
Right-click'n on a track beit video or audio and select properties..
where you can change the volume. But, as I mentioned it may only be the
playback volume. Not how it may get encoded. Oh, when I did it, it
showed the audio at 33%. Don't know what that means
I was gonna output a small clip but, for some reason it always wanted to
do the entire file.
HERE IS YOUR ANSWER!!!!! (I hope!)
--------------------
Tried it again.. as mentioned it initially had its Volume showing as 33%
I let it go at that. Then I changed the Volume to 15%
dragNdrop'd both of the NVEExports:
'NVEExport.0001.mpg' (33%)
& 'NVEExport.0002.mpg' (15%)
Into Adobe Audition v1.5's Multi-Track View
Switching to EDIT VIEW I'm able to Compare:
0001's volume between 15 dB & 15 dB, percentage view 20%
0002's volume between 21 dB & 21 dB, percentage view 10%
the ORIG avi
.avi's volume between 3 dB & 3 dB, percentage view 80%
Just did a THIRD trial, this time changing the setting to 100%
0003's volume between 3 dB & 3 dB, percentage view 80%
So this is to say, YES, indeed there is a way to lessen the volume in
NVE 3. So probably, yours had a setting of greater than 100% when you
encoded.
Let see, you Make DVD - DVD Video - add Video files 'your filename.avi'
Once its there in the Content/assets window, Right-click - Edit.
You'll see
Text
Effects
Video [=====================================]
Audio 1
Audio 2
Where only the Video track has anything. Right-Click on it.
Select 'Properties' off to the Right appears a little window
Here is where you move the slider to change the volume percentage
Kronk
Martin
I actually did locate that volume slide in NVE, and moved it down from
the 100% setting that it was defaulted to. All that seemed to do was
lower the volume of both the program material and the distortion,
without affecting the apparent percentage distortion. All I can figure
is that the problem has already crept in before that step in the
processing. I mentioned this experiment on Aug 25:
At this point, I'm beginning to suspect a basic incompatibility between
Moviemaker-generated AVI files and several other software packages.
Particularly since Gspot can't even show a frame rate for these AVI
files, Nero won't burn them to DVD without audio distortion, and Auto
GK can't convert them to XviD. The only good thing I can say about the
MM AVI files is that windows media player will play them and the DivX
converter will accept them. But that's only a very small part of a
very big world.
I appreciate all the trouble you've taken to speculate on this issue,
and I did benefit from the discussion. Now at least I'm aware and in
possession of Gspot, which seems like a pretty useful analysis tool.
best regards,
Kronk
On 1 Sep 2006 08:03:36 -0700, "Martin" <funkycha...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Kronk,
>
> I actually did locate that volume slide in NVE, and moved it down from
> the 100% setting that it was defaulted to. All that seemed to do was
> lower the volume of both the program material and the distortion,
> without affecting the apparent percentage distortion. All I can figure
> is that the problem has already crept in before that step in the
> processing. I mentioned this experiment on Aug 25:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.moviemaker/browse_frm/thread/53ddc90b6c40c939/1f6bc40ea0c60bb7?lnk=st&q=funkychateauspam&rnum=1#1f6bc40ea0c60bb7
Oh, missed that one in the 'other' thread.
I'm monitoring this all from the ALT.VIDEO.DVD.AUTHORING newsgroup and
using Forte Agent to read the messages. Typically, I can double click
on a 'Message-ID:' shown in the msgHeader ..or one included in the
msgBody. Forte Agent will go directly too it, if I've read it already
OR go find it on My ISP's NTTP server.
(apparently, its no longer there)
I managed to find the msgHeader info while I was on Google looking at
the ORIGINAL MESSAGE. ...anyway.
This is the one that I remembered, posted just previously.
|From: "Martin" <funkychateauS...@yahoo.com>
|Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.moviemaker,alt.video.dvd.authoring
|Subject: AVI Audio is fine, but Clipping and Distortion in Vision Express 3
|Date: 24 Aug 2006 09:31:29 -0700
|Message-ID: <1156437089.6...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
|
|<snip>
|
|Is there some hidden setting in Nero that changes the amplitude of the
|source material?
Hence my mentioning of it.
Here is that msg on the 25th.
|From: "Martin" <funkychateauS...@yahoo.com>
|Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.moviemaker,alt.video.dvd.authoring
|Subject: More Experiments / Results
|Date: 25 Aug 2006 08:17:38 -0700
|Message-ID: <1156519058....@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>
|
|<snip>
|
|I also located the volume slider in Vision Express and played with it,
|but lovering the volume did not affect the relative amount of
|distortion. Apparently the problem has already occured before that
|step in processing.
So yeap, sure enuf you had found it.
>
> At this point, I'm beginning to suspect a basic incompatibility between
> Moviemaker-generated AVI files and several other software packages.
> Particularly since Gspot can't even show a frame rate for these AVI
> files, Nero won't burn them to DVD without audio distortion, and Auto
> GK can't convert them to XviD. The only good thing I can say about the
> MM AVI files is that windows media player will play them and the DivX
> converter will accept them. But that's only a very small part of a
> very big world.
Unfortunately, I don't have a Moviemaker generated AVI
I was thinking I'd give it a test, see if the same things happened to
me, when I brought into NVE-3.
Sorta thought the 'clue' to it being different is DV-AVI-NTSC.
Mentioned in
| Message-ID: <1156437089.6...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
| <snip>
|I've used Windows moviemaker to create a 5-minute video clip and save
|as DV-AVI-NTSC (largest) file. The video and sound quality are
|excellent when played back using windows media player.
Is there any other option in Moviemaker for AVI? That would allow you
to use a different CODEC.
>
> I appreciate all the trouble you've taken to speculate on this issue,
> and I did benefit from the discussion. Now at least I'm aware and in
> possession of Gspot, which seems like a pretty useful analysis tool.
Funny, that..
I almost like badly (not a good choice of words) done videos, better.
Just for the challenge of figuring out what went wrong.
<BSG> probably 'ought' to get a life. Though, ever since my back
injury, well, I find this stuff fun and gives me something to do.
GSpot, I don't believe it really has appropriate detection for DV-AVI.
Just AVI & MPEG. ..I mean were it'd fill in all the blanks/fields
correctly. Maybe it will 'whenever' v2.60 comes out.
>
> best regards,
>
> Martin
>
All the best to you aswell.
Kronk