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Elephant Boy Computers - top spammer

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skidz

unread,
Dec 13, 2007, 6:18:12 PM12/13/07
to
By incessantly posting their sig as a reply to other spam messages.

R. McCarty

unread,
Dec 13, 2007, 6:23:23 PM12/13/07
to
Not by a long shot - Malke runs a computer business. It's entirely
appropriate to add a signature with a business name. It's not self
promotion as much as a Professional identification. Also Elephant
Boy computers provides a lot of "Self-Help" for removing Malware
and is referenced by other responders here.

"skidz" <n...@aliot.or> wrote in message news:fjsejk$bmb$1...@aioe.org...

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 13, 2007, 6:41:36 PM12/13/07
to
You need to look again.
If a signature is the standard you use to identify a spammer, many
posters in these newsgroups are spammers.
You are one of the few if not the only that use a signature as a
standard to identify a spammer.

Identifying spam for what it is , is not spam.
There are many new people here regularly, and what may seem obvious to
you is not always obvious to others.

Do you help as much as she does?
Perhaps you need to read more of her posts.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar


"skidz" <n...@aliot.or> wrote in message news:fjsejk$bmb$1...@aioe.org...

Message has been deleted

mikeyhsd

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Dec 13, 2007, 8:13:45 PM12/13/07
to
that's a poor excuse.
 
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_...@hotnomail.com> wrote in message news:u9M9$GePIH...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 13, 2007, 9:11:00 PM12/13/07
to
I will challenge anybody who frequents these newsgroups to present any evidence where it demonstrates that Malke uses her business web site to generate paid work from these newsgroups.
 
Her web site is full of useful information which can be accessed for free. Nobody puts up that kind of material on a 'free to access' web site in the hope of being paid for it. Only local people who call her for personal assistance would get charged anything at all, which just about discounts 99.9% of all people who come here.
 
I suggest that you take a good look at it..
 
 
 
 
 

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 13, 2007, 9:40:18 PM12/13/07
to
Not an excuse at all.
It seems you have not read much of what she has posted here or perhaps
you are selectively reading and skipping her more helpful posts.
Do a Google search for her and read more of what she has to say.

What do you have to say about your own regular use of HTML,which is
inappropriate in these text newsgroups?
Or are standards for others and not for you?

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"mikeyhsd" <mike...@sprintpcs.com> wrote in message
news:eSVzT6eP...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

Message has been deleted

Peter Foldes

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Dec 14, 2007, 1:39:48 AM12/14/07
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> Do you know that due to your top-posting, everything below your
> delimiter is not incuded in a reply to your posts ?

And if you would know why then you can maybe become an expert. Ever consider that it was snipped out on purpose like here. If you like to read the same postings over and over again then keep doing it or better still waste the bandwidth

--
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

Peter Foldes

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 1:47:25 AM12/14/07
to
mikeyhsd

You are wrong about Malke. She is more helpful that most as it testifies her web page for help with Malware\Trojans and viruses. And her warning about Spam is appropriate for most new or one time posters

You claim for posting in HTML is not valid reason. Read carefully and you will see that text based newsgroups is not marked as allowed to post in HTML.

Funny that you do not get many answers to your posts. Most if not all will not open HTML based posts

--
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"mikeyhsd" <mike...@sprintpcs.com> wrote in message news:eSVzT6eP...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

MAP

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 2:45:06 AM12/14/07
to
Look at me, I'm a spammer too!
http://elephantboycomputers.com/

--
Mike Pawlak


MowGreen [MVP]

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 4:46:56 AM12/14/07
to
[Top posted just to PO some self-righteous jerk}

<AOL> Me, too </AOL>
http://elephantboycomputers.com

Let's see if you help folks out as much as Malke does ... nope.
Now go back to your caves, trolls.

MowGreen [MVP 2003-2008]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============

MAP

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 4:59:53 AM12/14/07
to

What no sense of humor

--
Mike Pawlak


antioch

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Dec 14, 2007, 8:19:44 AM12/14/07
to

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message
news:h544m3pd58t5igddu...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:40:18 -0700, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
> <jones_...@hotnomail.com> wrote:


CLIPPED

> Do you know that due to your top-posting, everything below your
> delimiter is not incuded in a reply to your posts ?

Wally
It would appear you have never heard the term 'contextualizing'?

There are very good reasons for using the recommended newsgroup quoting
style. It has to do with making it easy for others to understand what you
are talking about when you post a reply to anything by placing your
comments into context.

1) If you do not quote at all in a reply you leave the reader guessing at
what you are replying to.

2) If you quote the entire message but then post your reply above or below
the message you are responding to, and the message happens to be very long
and cover a lot of topics of discussion, again you leave the reader guessing
as to what part of the message your reply was for.

This is why you should put your replies into context.

4) Newsgroup quoting styles have been in use now for well over 20 years,
they are very well understood and accepted quoting practices among those who
participate in newsgroup threaded discussions. Because of that, if you
choose for whatever reason to not follow these accepted practices, then you
invite criticism. Quite often people who fail to follow accepted practices
in threaded discussions and choose to ignore request to start doing so, will
eventually be ignored completely and/or not taken
seriously.

5) It's bad form to quote the entire message of an OP (Original Poster)
especially so if that message is more than just a few lines in length,
unless you are doing a point by point response to the message and properly
contextualizing your responses as you go. You should [snip] any comments you
are not responding to.

There you go WALLY - a lesson in correct posting etiquette.
JJ was spot on - who wants to keep reading the same crap on and on in every
reply - that does piss me off.

I have nothing to add re the comments made about Malke - as far as I am
concerned she 'IS' and that's good enough for me and probably thousands of
others who are only too pleased that she 'IS'.
The original OP comments are pathetic.

Rgds
Antioch


Daave

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:22:48 AM12/14/07
to
Peter Foldes wrote:
> mikeyhsd
>
> You are wrong about Malke. She is more helpful that most as it
> testifies her web page for help with Malware\Trojans and viruses. And
> her warning about Spam is appropriate for most new or one time
> posters
>
> You claim for posting in HTML is not valid reason. Read carefully and
> you will see that text based newsgroups is not marked as allowed to
> post in HTML.
>
> Funny that you do not get many answers to your posts. Most if not all
> will not open HTML based posts

Good post, Peter.

Can you please fix your word wrap settings? Thanks much!


Daave

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:26:12 AM12/14/07
to

Read it again. :-)

--
Me Three
Be sure to visit http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html


mikeyhsd

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:31:52 AM12/14/07
to
I said the spam post is not helpful.
 
occasionally it does post something useful.
 
not surprised it has called on some other mvp for defencse.
 
"Mike Hall - MVP" <mike...@mvps.com> wrote in message news:uQXiTafP...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

mikeyhsd

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:32:25 AM12/14/07
to
what I read was a useless post that contained one word
 
SPAM
 
NOT helpful at all.
 
 
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_...@hotnomail.com> wrote in message news:uHS52qfP...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

Tom [Pepper] Willett

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:38:23 AM12/14/07
to
And your replies to those useless posts are totally useless.

"mikeyhsd" <mike...@sprintpcs.com> wrote in message

news:OOVaQamP...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:41:58 AM12/14/07
to
Nobody called me to defend.
 
The spam warning is for the benefit of others. Malke offers a great deal of help in the XP and Vista newsgroups, and way more frequently than occasionally.
 
 
 
 

Alias

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 11:03:15 AM12/14/07
to
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> Nobody called me to defend.

Giggle. I wonder why?

> The spam warning is for the benefit of others. Malke offers a great deal
> of help in the XP and Vista newsgroups, and way more frequently than
> occasionally.

Yeah, but you better not contradict her or she will plonk you in a NY
second.

Alias

db ´¯`·.. ><)))º>` .. .

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 11:08:15 AM12/14/07
to
interesting....

either you are a
disgruntled spammer

or

you are just as
guilty by posting
a non question and
proliferating a business

and

as seen by the numerous
responses of morons, have
manipulated the replication
of spam

or

you are an employee
of the business and used
this posting to proliferating

Rick

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 12:40:33 PM12/14/07
to
skidz wrote:
> By incessantly posting their sig as a reply to other spam messages.
What a bunch of rubbish. I have found that they give very good
information and it is clearly NOT SPAM. Sig files do not make spam ever!

Rick

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 12:52:23 PM12/14/07
to
A smart lady..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx


"Alias" <al...@aliasmail.com> wrote in message news:fju9g2$3kd$2...@aioe.org...

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 3:01:42 PM12/14/07
to
Everything but what I deliberately snipped is in the reply.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message
news:h544m3pd58t5igddu...@4ax.com...

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 7:24:25 PM12/14/07
to
It is there, if you are unable to see it, the problem is with you or
your newsreader.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:q466m3t3k0h8pdecc...@4ax.com...
> This is a perfect example. How the heck is somene supposed to
> figure this out?
>
> Are you really that clueless ?

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 7:25:16 PM12/14/07
to
You may be the only one who couldn't figure it out.. :-)

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:q466m3t3k0h8pdecc...@4ax.com...


> On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:01:42 -0700, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
> <jones_...@hotnomail.com> wrote:
>
>>Everything but what I deliberately snipped is in the reply.
>
>

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Terry R.

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 7:58:22 PM12/14/07
to
On 12/14/2007 4:39 PM On a whim, Wally pounded out on the keyboard

> On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:24:25 -0700, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
> <jones_...@hotnomail.com> wrote:
>
>> It is there, if you are unable to see it, the problem is with you or
>> your newsreader.
>
>

> I use Agent, as you can clearly see.
>
> A delimiter causes everything UNDER IT to not show up upon reply.
>
> The purpose of a delimiter is for the sig not to show up upon reply so
> as to not clutter up the thread.
>
> Since you insist on using a delimiter AND top-posting, everthing
> under your sig is gone.
>
> Do you understand that or are you just a Microsoft standards-changer?
> Because you say so, that's how it will be.
>
> Do you understand what a delimiter is and how to use it ?
>
> Here --
>
> Concerning SIGNATURES:
>
> Many people include a signature at the end of their messages.
> This signature may contain useful information like how to unmunge
> a munged e-mail address, how to grab that person's public OpenPGP
> key, or just trivia and maybe humoristic phrases.
>
> The signature should not be a novel. Keep it short - the
> generally accepted length is no more than 4 lines but nobody will
> yell at you if it's 5 or 6. Things will start getting out of hand
> if your signature is much longer than that.
>
> The signature itself should be separated from the rest of the
> body by a signature delimiter. The standard for that delimiter is
> "-- " (dash dash space) on its own on a line. Everything above it
> in the body will be displayed. The delimiter itself and
> everything below it will be stripped by the newsreader/mailer
> when someone wants to reply to a message with such a signature,
> and some mailers/newsreaders won't even display the signature in
> the first place.
>
> If people start complaining about the fact that you're sending
> blank messages, pay special attention to what you're sending and
> where you're putting the "-- ". As usual, don't assume everyone's
> software behaves like yours. In fact, if you receive complaints
> and you don't know why, the chances are that your software isn't
> behaving at all. Microsoft Outlook Express and Outlook, for
> example, are totally incapable of handling signatures, or text
> wrapping for that matter, in a standards-compliant manner without
> third party add-ons such as "QuoteFix" (which exists in two
> versions: QuoteFix for Outlook and QuoteFix for Outlook Express).
>
> Finally, bear in mind that some automated mail management systems
> such as mailman, majordomo, ecartis and the like will carry on
> trying to process your signature as commands unless it is
> separated from the real commands by the usual "-- " delimiter.
>
> http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php

I've asked many who top post and use a delimiter, i.e. all those who use
a MS client (stupid MS), to not do that, but Windows Mail is unable to
be configured not use a delimiter when top posting (although OL & OE can
like you stated using Quotefix). Any proper newsreader (I use TB) will
NOT insert a delimiter if the user chooses to top post.

--
Terry R.

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 7:55:15 PM12/14/07
to
"I use Agent"
Irrelevant.

You are free to deal with it how you want.
What you are not free to do is insist others comply with your desires.
Others have the same choice.
You have many options depending on your news reader.
You deal with it, and that means within the confines of your own
computer system.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:cv76m39fftupf5lqe...@4ax.com...

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 7:59:29 PM12/14/07
to
"Usenet, not a Microsoft "Forum""
You are not entirely correct.
Many post here directly from the Microsoft servers and others from
Microsoft forums depending on the specific newsgroup.
the fact these newsgroups are propagated beyond Microsoft is another
issue and not really relevant.
Those posting from Microsoft newsgroups or forums are bound to follow
the rules set up by Microsoft not rules dictated by you, me or anyone
else.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:gj86m3pcnjjgg5q35...@4ax.com...


> On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:25:16 -0500, "Mike Hall - MVP"
> <mike...@mvps.com> wrote:
>
>>You may be the only one who couldn't figure it out.. :-)
>

> No, you and several others obviously don't take the time to
> understand
> that this is Usenet, not a Microsoft "Forum" with it's own
> standards
> by which all shall obey.
>
> I find it unfathomable that you can't understand this.
>
> Educate yourself about Usenet.

MAP

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 8:06:01 PM12/14/07
to
Seems like I read what I was expecting ...instead of what was written.It sux
getting old! Avoid it at all costs.
--
Mike Pawlak
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

mikeyhsd

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 8:28:24 PM12/14/07
to
read the microsoft news rules.
HTML is and always has been welcome.
 
and you call your self an mvp.
 
 
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_...@hotnomail.com> wrote in message news:%23BYBb1o...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
"...it has called on some other mvp"
Nice ASSUMPTION.
FALSE as far as I know.
Be careful what you ASSUME.
Most here know what it means to ASSUME.

Your obvious violation of newsgroup etiquette by posting in HTML sits
strange while you FALSELY accuse another of  a violation.
Pot, Kettle Black

Go read what she posts rather than selected posts you call spam,
perhaps then you will see who she really is.


--
Jupiter Jones  [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar



"mikeyhsd" <mike...@sprintpcs.com> wrote in message

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 8:37:33 PM12/14/07
to
You are also free to continue in the ASSUMPTIONS of your last post,
there are more than one.
Remember what it means to ASSUME.

I guess your understanding of "condescending and quite arrogant" is
suggesting you not have others comply with your own desires.
Your post can as easily be applied to you.
You should really read it.

However you are rapidly heading the direction of insults as shown in
the 2nd line of your post.
And at that point nothing else of value is possible.

Perhaps it is time for you to deal with real issues as suggested by
the title of the newsgroup instead of trivial matters such as posting
styles which are not relevant to these newsgroups.

Bye

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:b2b6m31sh8rs4oo56...@4ax.com...
> I was told it might be the fault of my newsreader
>
> Your reply is condescending and quite arrogant.
>
> You have no idea how Usenet operates and no understanding
> of the conventions involved and don't care to learn.

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 8:54:17 PM12/14/07
to
Wally, I read the posts in order. It is much easier to read one post to
another than to have to scroll down a whole bunch of badly edited previous
messages. Many bottom posters are unable to determine who said what
regardless of whether the original posts were top or bottom.

Top posting eliminates this problem. Welcome to the NEW Usenet..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx


"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:gj86m3pcnjjgg5q35...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:25:16 -0500, "Mike Hall - MVP"
> <mike...@mvps.com> wrote:
>

>>You may be the only one who couldn't figure it out.. :-)
>

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 9:13:38 PM12/14/07
to
You need to read the thread again.
Apparently you missed much.

The reference to your using HTML was compared with your complaints of
signatures.
Find something in those same rules you just referenced that suggest
signatures are wrong.
You can not, because it is not there.
It seems etiquette that suits you is to be followed by everyone while
those that do not suit you can be ignored by you.
The obvious example of common etiquette to not use HTML in text
newsgroups partially as a courtesy to those paying for their download
usage.
But you choose to disregard that while complaining about signatures
which are acceptable to almost everyone except you.
You pick and choose what you like and expect others to comply with
your desires.
It doesn't work that way.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"mikeyhsd" <mike...@sprintpcs.com> wrote in message

news:eZyBKnr...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 9:22:47 PM12/14/07
to
"show me the Microsoft "Rules" regarding top-posting"
There is nothing since BOTH top and bottom are fully acceptable.

"the chapter on MVP top-posting."
Obviously there is no such chapter since there is no such book.
However the same rules that apply to you apply to me, no more and no
less.

"Microsoft Posting Handbook"
There is no such thing and you know it.
This is about as close as it gets:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.mspx

"BTW, how do you think this group got on Usenet ?"
Again, not relevant.
Those posting through Microsoft servers have no obligation other than
what Microsoft has already asked.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:n8b6m352msrnt67rc...@4ax.com...
> Okay, please show me the Microsoft "Rules" regarding top-posting,
> delimiters and the proper way to followup a post from somebody who
> insists upon doing so.
>
> While you're looking up the Microsoft Posting Handbook, let me
> know the chapter on MVP top-posting.
>
> BTW, how do you think this group got on Usenet ?

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 9:33:13 PM12/14/07
to
"I'm sorry I upset you"
Please stop ASSUMING, as before you are simply WRONG.
You should know what it means to ASSUME and the pitfalls that go with
ASSUMING.
If by some slim chance you are not assuming, you are posturing, and
that is just a bad.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:m1d6m3tn0vkcbcar0...@4ax.com...
>
>
> Obviously, you have no understanding of delimiters or how they work.
> Rather than take the time to learn, you obfuscate and end up
> taking the position of having your feelings hurt.
>
> Please accept my apology, as I did not mean to hurt your feelings.
>
> My intention was to assist you in learning about Usenet.
>
> Again, I'm sorry I upset you, as that was not my intention.

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 9:36:36 PM12/14/07
to
Wally

That was all I wrote.. as for you being arrogant, I wouldn't have gone that
far exactly.. :-)

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx


"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:kld6m3t3qa0trflif...@4ax.com...


> On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:54:17 -0500, "Mike Hall - MVP"
> <mike...@mvps.com> wrote:
>
>>Wally, I read the posts in order. It is much easier to read one post to
>>another than to have to scroll down a whole bunch of badly edited previous
>>messages. Many bottom posters are unable to determine who said what
>>regardless of whether the original posts were top or bottom.
>>
>>Top posting eliminates this problem. Welcome to the NEW Usenet..
>

> And when I reply, this is all there is to reply to.
>
> It's not the "NEW usenet", it's arrogant posters.

he

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:15:53 PM12/14/07
to
Agree - smart and helpful.
I find the *SPAM* warnings to be annoying, but I guess after seeing this
discussion that maybe there are those that can't identify spam for
themselves. I can just filter out the subjects ending with *SPAM* and
leave her useful posts, so I won't complain.
Maybe it would be better if the spam warnings were just the subject line
on an empty post? After all, if the intention is to have people avoid
reading the post, why have anything in there at all?

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mike...@mvps.com> wrote in
news:uyv2UonP...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:

> A smart lady..


>
> --
> Mike Hall - MVP
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
>
>
>
>

> "Alias" <al...@aliasmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fju9g2$3kd$2...@aioe.org...
>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>> Nobody called me to defend.
>>
>> Giggle. I wonder why?
>>
>>> The spam warning is for the benefit of others. Malke offers a great
>>> deal of help in the XP and Vista newsgroups, and way more frequently
>>> than occasionally.
>>
>> Yeah, but you better not contradict her or she will plonk you in a NY
>> second.
>>
>> Alias
>
>

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:27:10 PM12/14/07
to
"Maybe it would be better if the spam warnings were just the subject
line"
That seems like a good idea.
But sometimes a change in the subject is seen by some newsreaders as
the start of a new thread and not a continuation of the old.
There probably is no good solution while spammers continue to do what
they do, spam us all.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"he" <w...@dat.dere> wrote in message
news:Xns9A06CE25...@207.46.248.16...

Peter Foldes

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:32:50 PM12/14/07
to
Which newsreader are you using. Nothing wrong with word wrap here

--
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"Daave" <dcwash...@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> wrote in message news:OMPRZUmP...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Peter Foldes wrote:
>> mikeyhsd
>>
>> You are wrong about Malke. She is more helpful that most as it
>> testifies her web page for help with Malware\Trojans and viruses. And
>> her warning about Spam is appropriate for most new or one time
>> posters
>>
>> You claim for posting in HTML is not valid reason. Read carefully and
>> you will see that text based newsgroups is not marked as allowed to
>> post in HTML.
>>
>> Funny that you do not get many answers to your posts. Most if not all
>> will not open HTML based posts
>
> Good post, Peter.
>
> Can you please fix your word wrap settings? Thanks much!
>
>

he

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:34:56 PM12/14/07
to
She is already changing the subject line by adding " - *SPAM*"
(which appears to be working)

I feel it is best to just ignore the spammers - any form of response
seems to just encourage them.

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_...@hotnomail.com> wrote in

news:uB6TupsP...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

Daave

unread,
Dec 14, 2007, 10:34:50 PM12/14/07
to
MAP wrote:
> Seems like I read what I was expecting ...instead of what was
> written.It sux getting old! Avoid it at all costs.

I've been trying to. So, far it hasn't worked too well.

Still, better than the alternative, eh?


Daave

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 12:24:25 AM12/15/07
to
Peter Foldes wrote:
> Which newsreader are you using. Nothing wrong with word wrap here

Yes, there is. I believe it is because you are using Quoted-Printable,
which presumably negates word-wrap settings.

By the way, I'm using Outlook Express (but for yucks, I tried Xnews,
too). This is how to enable word wrap properly:

Tools | Options | Message Format: Uuencode


Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 3:11:15 AM12/15/07
to
On 12/14/2007 4:55 PM On a whim, Jupiter Jones [MVP] pounded out on the
keyboard

> "I use Agent"


> Irrelevant.
>
> You are free to deal with it how you want.
> What you are not free to do is insist others comply with your desires.
> Others have the same choice.
> You have many options depending on your news reader.
> You deal with it, and that means within the confines of your own
> computer system.
>

Which means you missed the whole point. It's not about "our desires",
but about what is a standard, which MS has clearly stepped away from.

Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 3:13:20 AM12/15/07
to
On 12/14/2007 4:59 PM On a whim, Jupiter Jones [MVP] pounded out on the
keyboard

> "Usenet, not a Microsoft "Forum""


> You are not entirely correct.
> Many post here directly from the Microsoft servers and others from
> Microsoft forums depending on the specific newsgroup.
> the fact these newsgroups are propagated beyond Microsoft is another
> issue and not really relevant.
> Those posting from Microsoft newsgroups or forums are bound to follow
> the rules set up by Microsoft not rules dictated by you, me or anyone
> else.
>

And MS condones the use of top posting and a delimiter which wipes out
all previous communication? Please direct me to where their etiquette
rules point that out.

Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 3:16:23 AM12/15/07
to
On 12/14/2007 6:22 PM On a whim, Jupiter Jones [MVP] pounded out on the
keyboard

> "show me the Microsoft "Rules" regarding top-posting"


> There is nothing since BOTH top and bottom are fully acceptable.

Both may be acceptable, but PLEASE direct me to where a delimiter is
supposed to be used when top posting.

>
> "the chapter on MVP top-posting."
> Obviously there is no such chapter since there is no such book.
> However the same rules that apply to you apply to me, no more and no
> less.
>

And none of them discuss top posting with a delimiter.

> "Microsoft Posting Handbook"
> There is no such thing and you know it.
> This is about as close as it gets:
> http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.mspx
>
> "BTW, how do you think this group got on Usenet ?"
> Again, not relevant.
> Those posting through Microsoft servers have no obligation other than
> what Microsoft has already asked.
>

And when does an answer posted shouldn't have the question before it?

Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 3:19:46 AM12/15/07
to
On 12/14/2007 6:33 PM On a whim, Jupiter Jones [MVP] pounded out on the
keyboard

> "I'm sorry I upset you"


> Please stop ASSUMING, as before you are simply WRONG.
> You should know what it means to ASSUME and the pitfalls that go with
> ASSUMING.
> If by some slim chance you are not assuming, you are posturing, and
> that is just a bad.
>

I "assume" you know nothing about delimiters and how they are used in
posting. And I am NOT wrong by your answers. You choose to continue in a
manner that is not accepted by most newsgroups, just because you use a
faulty news client.

Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 3:21:26 AM12/15/07
to
On 12/14/2007 5:54 PM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the keyboard

> Wally, I read the posts in order. It is much easier to read one post to
> another than to have to scroll down a whole bunch of badly edited previous
> messages. Many bottom posters are unable to determine who said what
> regardless of whether the original posts were top or bottom.
>
> Top posting eliminates this problem. Welcome to the NEW Usenet..
>

I think you mean the Microsoft Usenet. Nothing new Mike. It's been
wrong all along.

antioch

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 6:37:43 AM12/15/07
to
Replies intertwined and contextualized

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:aq56m3dk9ik8era20...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:19:44 -0000, "antioch" <ant...@home.com> wrote:
>
>>Wally
>>It would appear you have never heard the term 'contextualizing'?
>
> <Snipped blah-blah>

Obviously not

> It's very difficult to follow a thread that's always top-posted, let
> alone a mixed top/bottom posted thread.

Agreed, but then if one comes into the middle of a post you will always have
that problem - however, if properly contextualized understanding is made
easier.

> To have a top poster with a delimiter that wipes virtually everything
> out under their post, is absurd.

Smokescreen - delimiter has its uses but not in every case - if the thread
has been followed properly a single line response top posted to another
individual is understandable. Contextualizing in my opinion, should always
be a consideration.

> Perhaps you just don't know how a delimiter works.

I do - but then I think it less important than replies made in context.

> I forgive your lack of knowledge and hope this will create an incentive
> for you to understand what I'm talking about.

I think your lack of knowledge of contextualizing is probably greater than
mine in using a delimiter. I trust you have been able to follow this
response - perhaps not.
Forgiveness is not required :-)

Rgds
Antioch

antioch

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 6:42:29 AM12/15/07
to

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message
news:q466m3t3k0h8pdecc...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:01:42 -0700, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
> <jones_...@hotnomail.com> wrote:
>
>>Everything but what I deliberately snipped is in the reply.
>
>
> This is a perfect example. How the heck is somene supposed to
> figure this out?
>
> Are you really that clueless ?

Wally
I followed the reply OK - why cannot you?
Its is what the British Army called an ABC message -
Accurate enough and Brief enough to cover the Bare essentials.
QED - or do you need that to be translated/explained?

Rgds
Antioch


antioch

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 6:54:59 AM12/15/07
to
Are you top posting out of spite now?
Antioch

"Wally" <wally@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:m1d6m3tn0vkcbcar0...@4ax.com...
>
>
> Obviously, you have no understanding of delimiters or how they work.
> Rather than take the time to learn, you obfuscate and end up
> taking the position of having your feelings hurt.
>
> Please accept my apology, as I did not mean to hurt your feelings.
>
> My intention was to assist you in learning about Usenet.
>
> Again, I'm sorry I upset you, as that was not my intention.
>
>

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 8:22:53 AM12/15/07
to
I think that it is wrong to have to scroll down every message looking for an
answer..

Alias

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 10:49:44 AM12/15/07
to
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> I think that it is wrong to have to scroll down every message looking
> for an answer..
>

Not necessary if you know how to use a computer. Need help?

Alias

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 11:10:39 AM12/15/07
to
So having to scroll down through the question, and more often a whole bunch
of other stuff that has been badly edited is down to me not knowing how to
use a computer?

Do you ever have anything sensible to add? Shouldn't you be doing 'real'
work in Abiword, or haven't you found which side of the cube you left it
last?

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx


"Alias" <al...@aliasmail.com> wrote in message news:fk0t2o$tab$3...@aioe.org...

Alias

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 11:15:40 AM12/15/07
to
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> So having to scroll down through the question, and more often a whole
> bunch of other stuff that has been badly edited is down to me not
> knowing how to use a computer?

No, not knowing how to do it without scrolling is.

> Do you ever have anything sensible to add? Shouldn't you be doing 'real'
> work in Abiword, or haven't you found which side of the cube you left it
> last?
>

I guess you do need help. Too bad your ego gets in the way of asking for
it and you have to resort to infantile insults in a lame attempt at
discrediting me and distracting from the message. Now do you want to
learn how to read bottom posted messages without needing to scroll or not?

Alias

Message has been deleted

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 12:07:17 PM12/15/07
to
Then you freely accept the risks when you ASSUME of being WRONG which
you are in this case.

Be careful what you ASSUME.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"Terry R." <F1Com...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:uzBe5MvP...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 12:09:19 PM12/15/07
to
I can't wait for you to tell me..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx


"Alias" <al...@aliasmail.com> wrote in message news:fk0ujc$1us$2...@aioe.org...

Alias

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 12:17:39 PM12/15/07
to
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> I can't wait for you to tell me..
>

Easy, select the message. Click on the message body. Hit End on your
keyboard. Voila!, no scrolling.

Alias

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 12:29:58 PM12/15/07
to
Wouldn't that depend on the size of the window which opened? I don't run
with all windows maximized. I have more to do than just reply to your
condescension's. Perhaps you should try doing the same in Ubuntu, assuming
that you can find more than just Abiword and Agent to fill up the space.

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx


"Alias" <al...@aliasmail.com> wrote in message news:fk127j$cdt$1...@aioe.org...

Alias

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 12:38:10 PM12/15/07
to
Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> Wouldn't that depend on the size of the window which opened?

No.

> I don't run
> with all windows maximized.

Nor do I.

> I have more to do than just reply to your
> condescension's. Perhaps you should try doing the same in Ubuntu,
> assuming that you can find more than just Abiword and Agent to fill up
> the space.

I don't use Agent and why are you changing the subject to Ubuntu again?

Alias

Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 12:41:35 PM12/15/07
to
On 12/15/2007 9:07 AM On a whim, Jupiter Jones [MVP] pounded out on the
keyboard

> Then you freely accept the risks when you ASSUME of being WRONG which

> you are in this case.
>
> Be careful what you ASSUME.
>

I KNOW that top posting using a delimiter is caused by a faulty
newsreader. And a proper newsreader would not insert a delimiter if the
user chooses to top post.

Detlev Dreyer

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 12:41:34 PM12/15/07
to
"Mike Hall - MVP" <mike...@mvps.com> wrote:

> Wouldn't that depend on the size of the window which opened?

That depends on the *newsreader* in the first place. The one that I'm using
at the moment jumps to the message at the bottom of the list rather than to
the end of a selected message when hitting the "End" key.

--
d-d

Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 12:44:22 PM12/15/07
to
On 12/15/2007 5:22 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the keyboard

> I think that it is wrong to have to scroll down every message looking for an
> answer..
>

That is the fault of the poster if they don't snip what isn't relevant
to their reply. Sure laziness can cause a lengthy post. But to take
out EVERYTHING because of a delimiter being used when top posting is
just wrong. Look at your answer above. It looks like you just made a
comment out of nowhere.

Alias

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 1:10:32 PM12/15/07
to

You need to click on the message body before hitting End.

Alias

Message has been deleted

Detlev Dreyer

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 1:26:04 PM12/15/07
to
"Alias" <al...@aliasmail.com> wrote:

> Detlev Dreyer wrote:
>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mike...@mvps.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Wouldn't that depend on the size of the window which opened?
>>

>> That depends on the newsreader in the first place. The one that I'm using


>> at the moment jumps to the message at the bottom of the list rather than to
>> the end of a selected message when hitting the "End" key.
>>
>
> You need to click on the message body before hitting End.

Nope, doesn't work either. As for all of these special keys, the behavior
depends *always* on the application - "XanaNews Version 1.18.1.6".

--
d-d

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 1:28:50 PM12/15/07
to
Not if you read the post above.. :-)

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

"Terry R." <F1Com...@pobox.com> wrote in message

news:eLKwcI0P...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 2:06:30 PM12/15/07
to
On 12/15/2007 10:28 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the
keyboard

> Not if you read the post above.. :-)
>

Ah, now you expect everyone to view All Threads, just so those who want
to top post using a MS news client that strips everything relevant?
What if the person only views Unread? You want them to switch the view
just because of the stubborn attitudes of the few?

Message has been deleted

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 3:40:59 PM12/15/07
to
It is always good to read the 'whole' story..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx


"Terry R." <F1Com...@pobox.com> wrote in message

news:eya0V20P...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 3:41:42 PM12/15/07
to
You will find in life that arrogance begets arrogance.. your move..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx


"WaIIy" <WaIIy@(nft).invalid> wrote in message
news:knb8m3dloli65vnov...@4ax.com...


> On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:06:30 -0800, "Terry R." <F1Com...@pobox.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 12/15/2007 10:28 AM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the
>>keyboard
>>
>>> Not if you read the post above.. :-)
>>>
>>
>>Ah, now you expect everyone to view All Threads, just so those who want
>>to top post using a MS news client that strips everything relevant?
>>What if the person only views Unread? You want them to switch the view
>>just because of the stubborn attitudes of the few?
>

> Well, they don't understand how Usenet works, as they are a product of
> Microsoft Forums. Their understanding of how delimiters work,
> particularly upon "reply" is simply not there.
>
> It's just another case of poorly coded software attempting to change a
> standard because they think "they can".
>
> Additionally they wear the MVP Badge of Arrogance ©
> (Note: Not all MVP's, of course. Actually, not most MVP's))

Alias

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 3:46:09 PM12/15/07
to

Well, with XanaNews I guess you have to scroll. Not having used it, I
can't really say. I know it works with most news readers.

Alias

Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 7:05:20 PM12/15/07
to
On 12/15/2007 12:40 PM On a whim, Mike Hall - MVP pounded out on the
keyboard

> It is always good to read the 'whole' story..
>

Yes, that has been my point all along. Thank you. And because you use a
faulty mail/news client that inserts a bogus delimiter when you choose
top posting, you effectively remove "the 'whole' story."

Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 7:06:41 PM12/15/07
to
On 12/15/2007 12:46 PM On a whim, Alias pounded out on the keyboard

And I can't see that a program so full featured for newsgroups would
leave out a simple method to get to the end of a message window.

Shenan Stanley

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 7:43:54 PM12/15/07
to
<this conversation in its entirety>

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_frm/thread/1a55b354e9f7b7c/67fd8b1acea441f4?lnk=st&q=#67fd8b1acea441f4


Terry R.

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 8:10:25 PM12/15/07
to
On 12/15/2007 4:43 PM On a whim, Shenan Stanley pounded out on the keyboard

> <this conversation in its entirety>
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_frm/thread/1a55b354e9f7b7c/67fd8b1acea441f4?lnk=st&q=#67fd8b1acea441f4
>
>

Yes, let's rely on Google Groups because a few like the idea of wiping
out everything in a thread. BTW, just WHO were you replying to, since
you decided to take out ALL relevant material? GG shows your reply as
#72 and mine was #71, but Wally's was #73 and his post was from
yesterday, so you can't rely on that too well either.

Leythos

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 8:21:08 PM12/15/07
to
In article <eLKwcI0P...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>,
F1Com...@pobox.com says...

> That is the fault of the poster if they don't snip what isn't relevant
> to their reply. Sure laziness can cause a lengthy post. But to take
> out EVERYTHING because of a delimiter being used when top posting is
> just wrong. Look at your answer above. It looks like you just made a
> comment out of nowhere.

Not that I want to get in the war here, but Top Posting is a sign of
disrespect once you've been informed of the proper method. Top posting
is most common among the ignorant masses and people that believe they
are special and the norms don't apply to them.

The proper posting method is to assume that all previous posts have not
been read, that they are unavailable, since usenet can drop posts based
on many factors, and that the person doing the reply will SNIP parts
that are unneeded. If this is followed there is almost no need to scroll
in a windowed reader and the responses properly from from oldest to
newest, like a book or snail mail would.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam9...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Mike Hall - MVP

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 9:47:00 PM12/15/07
to
There was a point where I almost decided to start bottom posting, but as it
is used as a snipe by people when their other points fail, I will continue
top posting.. call it arrogance if you like..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx


"Leythos" <vo...@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.21ce478d5...@Adfree.usenet.com...

Bill

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 10:20:57 PM12/15/07
to

"skidz" <n...@aliot.or> wrote in message news:fjsejk$bmb$1...@aioe.org...
> By incessantly posting their sig as a reply to other spam messages.

Hey - I live in Australia - I'm going to call Malke for a house call?

I find her and most others that post here to be a great resourse.

You join the other ratbags who have nothing to add, but disruption. Get a
life.

Bill

Message has been deleted

Daave

unread,
Dec 15, 2007, 11:23:04 PM12/15/07
to
> Leythos wrote:
>> The proper posting method is to assume that all previous posts have
>> not been read, that they are unavailable, since usenet can drop
>> posts based on many factors, and that the person doing the reply
>> will SNIP parts that are unneeded. If this is followed there is
>> almost no need to scroll in a windowed reader and the responses
>> properly from from oldest to newest, like a book or snail mail would.

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
> There was a point where I almost decided to start bottom posting, but
> as it is used as a snipe by people when their other points fail, I
> will continue top posting.. call it arrogance if you like..

To be fair, Leythos wasn't advocating bottom-posting. Contextualized
inline posting, using generous snipping without cutting away too much
"story" is the easiest type of post to follow. It may take a few more
seconds to post this way, but the dividends are certainly worth the tiny
effort.

Oh, and in my newsreader (OE along with OE QuoteFix), scrolling is
easily accomplished by pressing the space bar.

--
Daave

And remember, kiddies, be sure to visit
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html


Jupiter Jones [MVP]

unread,
Dec 16, 2007, 1:35:49 AM12/16/07
to
It is interesting to note...
Posters are mostly in two categories.
Those that top post and those that bottom post.

What I have often found interesting is that there are those in one of
those groups that are intolerant of those in the other and they are
almost exclusively bottom posters.
That is not to say all bottom posters are intolerant, but the majority
of those intolerant are bottom posters.
Top posters rarely complain about posting methods and instead are
tolerant of others.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar

"WaIIy" <WaIIy@(nft).invalid> wrote in message

news:s679m397sv5r4o5ug...@4ax.com...
>
> I'll go with your definition.

Detlev Dreyer

unread,
Dec 16, 2007, 3:55:59 AM12/16/07
to
"Terry R." <F1Com...@pobox.com> wrote:

>> Well, with XanaNews I guess you have to scroll. Not having used it, I
>> can't really say. I know it works with most news readers.
>

> And I can't see that a program so full featured for newsgroups would
> leave out a simple method to get to the end of a message window.

A simple method to get to the end of a message makes only sense while
replying. "XanaNews" places the cursor at the bottom of the message in
that case. Isn't that simple enough?

--
d-d

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