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What exactly causes this?

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metro

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Apr 20, 2007, 2:20:02 PM4/20/07
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Hi all,

On power up, what's missing that causes the error "disk read error ?"

After downloading updates from Microsoft's update page, I get this message
on power up. Right after the post.

What file is damaged or corrupted? What program is generating the error
display?

I googled it, lots of advise from homeowners, but most just end up
reformatting and reloading their programs. Can this be fixed?

Thanks in advance.

metro

Rock

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Apr 20, 2007, 2:36:23 PM4/20/07
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"metro" <me...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote

This error indicates a problem with the hard drive, the error message is
generated by the BIOS. XP is not loaded when this error is detected.

Is there a full backup of important data on the drive? That should be a
given at all times, but if there isn't backup the data first as a
precaution. Here are some ways to do that.

1. Take the drive out of the computer and install it as a slave drive in
another Windows XP or 2000 computer. It should read the drive ok, so you can
copy the data.

2. Create a bootable Bart's PE disk, boot from that, then copy the data to
external USB drive or flash drive.

3. Download a bootable Linux distro called Knoppix. Create a bootable CD
from that, boot from it, and copy the data to USB drive or flash drive, or
if the computer has two CD drives, one of which is a burner, then use the
k3b burning program on the Knoppix CD to burn the data to CD.

4. Take it to a competent computer tech to backup the

With the data backed up insert reboot from the XP installation CD. Take the
first R to get you to the recovery console. Select the number of the
windows installation, normally that's "1", then input the password assigned
to the built in Administrator account. For XP Home this normally is blank
so just hit enter in that case. At the command line give this command:
fixboot C:
(where C: is the drive letter for the drive having the problem)

How to install and use the Recovery Console in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307654/en-us

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

Curt Christianson

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Apr 20, 2007, 2:43:35 PM4/20/07
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Hi metro,

In addition to Rock's sdvice, you may want to use the hard drive
manufacturers utilities to test the integrity of your drive:


Quantum/Maxtor - PowerMax
http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/powermax.htm

Western Digital - Data LifeGuard Tools (DLGDiag)
http://support.wdc.com/download/

Hitachi/IBM - Drive Fitness Test (DFT)
http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm

Seagate - SeaTools
http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/

Fujitsu - Diagnostic Tool
http://www.fcpa.com/download/hard-drives/

Samsung - Disk manager
http://www.samsung.com/Products/HardDiskDrive/utilities/shdiag.htm


--
HTH,
Curt

Windows Support Center
www.aumha.org
Practically Nerded,...
http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"metro" <me...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
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Spikey

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Apr 20, 2007, 2:48:11 PM4/20/07
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"Rock" <Ro...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:eU8nNr3g...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>
> 2. Create a bootable Bart's PE disk, boot from that, then copy the data to

Sorry to butt in Rock but could you point me to a clean download of this
freeware ( I assume it is still).

Thanks.

:o)


Curt Christianson

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Apr 20, 2007, 3:13:29 PM4/20/07
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Hi Spikey,

Try here:

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

--
HTH,
Curt

Windows Support Center
www.aumha.org
Practically Nerded,...
http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Spikey" <hedge...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message
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Spikey

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Apr 20, 2007, 4:13:21 PM4/20/07
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"Curt Christianson" <curtch...@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uv2Z9$3gHHA...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Hi Spikey,
>
> Try here:
>
> http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
>


Thank you Curt. I've seen it recommended many times so thought I'd try and
get to grips with it.

:o)


metro

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Apr 20, 2007, 6:08:02 PM4/20/07
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Hi Rock,

>
> This error indicates a problem with the hard drive, the error message is
> generated by the BIOS. XP is not loaded when this error is detected.
>

Could this be a problem with the bios itself? This was with a new hard
drive. and the previous one "quit" the same way, so I'm skeptical that the
hard drive is the culpret.

If the bios generated the error message, that there is a problem with the
hard drive, why am I able to reformat it. It seems to me that the "first"
group of instructions on the hard drive that the bios is trying to get at are
"scrambled" or corrupt. Resulting in a disk read error.

Is it possible to just repair or recopy those first instructions or files?

Am I assuming that's what your having me do using the recovery console and
the fixboot command?

Thanks in advance.

metro

metro

unread,
Apr 20, 2007, 6:12:01 PM4/20/07
to

> In addition to Rock's sdvice, you may want to use the hard drive
> manufacturers utilities to test the integrity of your drive:
>
>
> Quantum/Maxtor - PowerMax
> http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/powermax.htm
>
>
> Seagate - SeaTools
> http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/

Hi Curt,

Thanks for responding.

One drive was a Seagate and the other was a Maxtor. I'll go to both sites
to look for tools as you suggested.

If you have any other ideas, don't be shy.

metro

Rock

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Apr 20, 2007, 6:44:38 PM4/20/07
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"Spikey" <hedge...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote

> "Rock" <Ro...@nospam.net> wrote

>> 2. Create a bootable Bart's PE disk, boot from that, then copy the data
>> to
>
> Sorry to butt in Rock but could you point me to a clean download of this
> freeware ( I assume it is still).
>
> Thanks.

I see Curt gave you the link. FYI just do a Google search for Bart PE and
it pops up as the first link.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

Rock

unread,
Apr 20, 2007, 6:49:51 PM4/20/07
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"metro" <me...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote

The BIOS is reporting the error, but most likely not causing it. Something
caused the corruption on the drive. Since this is the second drive it
happened on there could be a problem with the motherboard or the controller
for the drive, or just bad luck with two bad drives or two random
occurrences of corruption.

Using fixboot does a repair to the boot sector of the drive. It is a common
solution for this error but there is no guarantee it will work.

Just because a drive is new doesn't mean it can't have problems. One way to
check the health of the drive is download a drive diagnostic utility from
the drive manufacturer's web site. That will create a bootable floppy or
CD. Boot from that and run the diagnostics.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

db

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Apr 20, 2007, 7:36:44 PM4/20/07
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you should run a chkdsk
via the recovery console or
with emergency boot up disks.
 
have you used the chkdsk
tool via windows previously?
 
here is a helpful link:
 
 

Spikey

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Apr 20, 2007, 8:42:24 PM4/20/07
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"Rock" <Ro...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:eYJg715g...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "Spikey" <hedge...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote

>
>
> I see Curt gave you the link. FYI just do a Google search for Bart PE and
> it pops up as the first link.
>

I did that first, but came up with so many links wasnt sure which was
genuine.

Thanks for replying.

:o)


metro

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Apr 20, 2007, 8:44:02 PM4/20/07
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Hi Rock,

"Rock" wrote:
>
> The BIOS is reporting the error, but most likely not causing it. Something
> caused the corruption on the drive.

After reading a previous post by "dynami...@gmail.com", I began
questioning the bios itself.

I will try the dianostic utility from both manufacturers web site.

Thanks for staying with my questions.

metro

metro

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Apr 20, 2007, 8:46:02 PM4/20/07
to
Hi db,

"db" wrote:

> you should run a chkdsk
> via the recovery console or
> with emergency boot up disks.


Would running chkdsk damage any of the files that I have on the disk at
present?

Thank you,

metro

Rock

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Apr 20, 2007, 8:58:04 PM4/20/07
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"Spikey" <hedge...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote

> "Rock" <Ro...@nospam.net> wrote

>> "Spikey" <hedge...@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote


>>
>>
>> I see Curt gave you the link. FYI just do a Google search for Bart PE
>> and it pops up as the first link.
>>
>
> I did that first, but came up with so many links wasnt sure which was
> genuine.
>
> Thanks for replying.

You're welcome. Have fun with it.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

Rock

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Apr 20, 2007, 9:01:22 PM4/20/07
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"metro" <me...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote

Yes, in some circumstances running chkdsk can result in data corruption and
loss. Before running chkdsk to correct errors make sure there is a full and
complete backup of important data. It doesn't happen in the majority of
cases, but when it does there is no recovering that lost data.

But then always having a full and complete backup of data is an essential
aspect of common sense computing. Data loss is an issue of when not if.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

db

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Apr 20, 2007, 9:24:26 PM4/20/07
to
the link i provided comes
directly from the experts.
 
if there were precautions required
before using the chkdsk tool, the
explanation would be provided in
thier document. 
 
however, it is designed to fixed
corruption in the file system caused
by flawed and corrupted data.  This
would be the data you would loose
after the chkdsk.  But keep in mind
that this flawed data would be
inaccessiable to you anyways
via windows.
 
If i were to guess i think that the
master file table (MFT) could not be
updated after your updates/downloads and
it simply needs to be syncronized to your file system
with the chkdsk utility- especially since it appears
you have never used it before!
 
 
- db

Curt Christianson

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Apr 20, 2007, 9:26:09 PM4/20/07
to
Rock,

I got that link from here:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_thread/thread/9b414a45daf12bba/4d2373a7e01f9d55?lnk=st&q=%22+Bart%27s+PE+disk%22&rnum=2&hl=en#4d2373a7e01f9d55

It *may* look familiar!

--
HTH,
Curt

Windows Support Center
www.aumha.org
Practically Nerded,...
http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Rock" <Ro...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:eYJg715g...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

Rock

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Apr 20, 2007, 10:02:05 PM4/20/07
to

Lol, rummaging around it the smut again, eh? It's also the first link in a
Google search for Bart PE.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

"Curt Christianson" <curtch...@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote

Curt Christianson

unread,
Apr 20, 2007, 10:14:09 PM4/20/07
to
No *smuttier* than here somedays. <sad seg>
Take good care....
--
HTH,
Curt

Windows Support Center
www.aumha.org
Practically Nerded,...
http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Rock" <Ro...@nospam.net> wrote in message

news:Oe8WQk7g...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

Rock

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Apr 20, 2007, 10:21:46 PM4/20/07
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That's the sad truth.
--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

"Curt Christianson" <curtch...@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote


> No *smuttier* than here somedays. <sad seg>
> Take good care....

> "Rock" <Ro...@nospam.net> wrote


>> Lol, rummaging around it the smut again, eh? It's also the first link in
>> a Google search for Bart PE.

>> "Curt Christianson" <curtch...@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote


>>> Rock,
>>>
>>> I got that link from here:
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_thread/thread/9b414a45daf12bba/4d2373a7e01f9d55?lnk=st&q=%22+Bart%27s+PE+disk%22&rnum=2&hl=en#4d2373a7e01f9d55
>>>
>>> It *may* look familiar!

>>> "Rock" <Ro...@nospam.net> wrote

metro

unread,
Apr 20, 2007, 11:38:00 PM4/20/07
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"Rock" wrote:


> But then always having a full and complete backup of data is an essential
> aspect of common sense computing. Data loss is an issue of when not if.

Very nicely said.

metro

metro

unread,
Apr 20, 2007, 11:44:01 PM4/20/07
to

"db" wrote:

> If i were to guess i think that the
> master file table (MFT) could not be
> updated after your updates/downloads and
> it simply needs to be syncronized to your file system
> with the chkdsk utility- especially since it appears
> you have never used it before!


What is your opinion of a corrupt bios? Prehaps an upgrade? if available.
Why would every thing work normal for a while and then go askew? twice?

Thanks,

metro

Og

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Apr 21, 2007, 2:45:15 AM4/21/07
to
Another possibly:
Although the occurrence is rare, data cables _do_ fail.
Try replacing the ribbon cable with a new one.
Steve

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db

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Apr 21, 2007, 9:18:08 AM4/21/07
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based on the information
you provided it could be
that the bios is askew.
 
the bios/cmos is like the
eyes of the system.  And
if it does not see a hardware
connected, then you o.s.
is also blind.
 
in this case, if the cmos/bios may
not see the disk(s).  you should
access your bios/cmos in accordance
to your computer manual or from
your pc's website and ensure the
bios/cmos acknowledges disk(s)
are connected. 
 
if so then the hardware is ok.
the next step is to check the software
which would then be the file system on the
disks. 
 
If the file system is askew, then
the programs, files, data, booting info
is askew too.  So you need to get
all that chk'd and errors corrected; as mentioned
to you earlier.
 
you might ask why is it important
that the file system needs to be
maintained?  And the answers can
be provide in a variety of analogies.
Like a car that needs regular tuneups
so does your computer which is also
a machine.
 
if cmos is ok, then go to recovery console
and run
 
chkdsk
 
fixboot
 
fixmbr
 
exit and reboot with your cd.

db

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Apr 21, 2007, 9:32:17 AM4/21/07
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should be read
 
 "without cd"
 
 

Spikey

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Apr 21, 2007, 2:10:56 PM4/21/07
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"db" <databaseben.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
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"db" <databaseben.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:OPlVGeBh...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
based on the information
you provided it could be
that the bios is askew.

the bios/cmos is like the
eyes of the system.

Probably not an issue and a simplistic aproach - but have you changed the
battery on the mb? If the bios was starved of power momentarily would/could
that causes similar symptoms??

And back tracking did you update the bios when you put on XP - again I'm
assuming that it may not have started out with xp on it??

I do like to examine the simpler things first. I seem to remember someone
who had stripped the computer down to basics and buying a new power supply
before finding out the fuse in the plug had blown. lol!!

:o)


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