Low level re-format and partionning of a disk drive under Windows
dareys
I have been experiencing a number of problems with Windows XP Home Edition
(SP2) on my machine.
At this point, I have re-installed the operating system half a dozen times
with the same suspect behaviour, in spite of getting new install disks from
the hardware vendor.
So, now I am considering a low level format of the machine, but I am having
a very hard time locating a boot disk containing the format or fdisk
commands. Can anyone point me to where I could find these files, on this
site, hopefully?
Thank you.
Jean-Pierre
Pegasus (MVP)
"dareys" <dar...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:31A5D43A-FC0D-4BB9...@microsoft.com...
Locating a boot disk is easy - just type this into a Google search box:
download "boot disk".
It will give you www.bootdisk.com.
Note that fdisk.exe is NOT a low-level format command. Note also that the
tasks performed by fdisk.exe and format.com (on a Win98 boot disk) are
equally performed by the WinXP installation process. To low-level format a
disk, you must download the diagnostic program from the home site of your
disk manufacturer.
Mick Murphy
If Proper Microsoft XP disk, you delete existing partition, make a new
partirion, format it, and install XP, all from the XP disk.
--
Mad Mike
dareys
Thank you for the site information. The vendor themselves pointed me to it
because apparently the commands are no longer supported. In any case, I
downloaded a couple of patches and they don't include fdisk or format.
Yes, I understand that fdisk partitions the drive and that format does what
it implies. I really want to do this because the OS install disks are doing
something funny and I really want to have a clean slate.
I have tried the re-install process a number of times, and it is very odd.
No real option to perform the format... It is also rather quick and deletes
and copies files across several CDs.... Not sychronous or linear like I
thought it would be.
PLease let me know if you think of something else.
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
dareys
Thank you for the response. Yes, I just received the original manufacturer
installation disks. However, the re-installation process does not allow me to
partition or format anything. It just does it. I might just have to try again.
Jean-Pierre
P.S. You are right about the process. I have been through it a number of
times this
year.
Mick Murphy
manufacturer. They are an image of the System, which you reinstall from them.
You have no choice to do any work with them at all.
The advice I was giving you is if you have the Microsoft XP disk.
You are booting from the CD drive, and reinstalling from there?
At Startup, go into Bios/Setup(F1, F2, or Delete Key), and set the CD/DVD
Drive to be 1st in the Boot Order; insert disk, reboot, etc.
If you are getting errors, post the error messages back here.
Pegasus (MVP)
> Pegasus,
>
> Thank you for the site information. The vendor themselves pointed me to
> it
> because apparently the commands are no longer supported. In any case, I
> downloaded a couple of patches and they don't include fdisk or format.
The standard Win98 boot disk/CD from www.bootdisk.com ***does*** include
fdisk and format.
Daave
By definition, when you perform a clean install of XP, you are
formatting your drive. Perhaps you are performing a repair install? Or
inadvertently a parallel install?
Please describe these "original manufacturer installation disks." If you
are installing XP Home, there is only *one* installation CD! What is the
make and model of your PC? Perhaps these other disks contain
installation files for programs as well as hardware device drivers. Once
you post with complete information, people here will be better able to
assist you.
If you have a Windows XP *installation* CD -- this is not the same thing
as what Mick was describing (i.e., a "recovery" or "restore" disk, which
contains an image of the hard drive the way it initially was when it
first left the factory) -- you should be able to perform a clean
install. Use the directions here:
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html
And if this is what you have been doing, please let us know at which
step you run into the problem. My guess is that you are booting off the
hard drive rather than the CD-ROM drive. But you need to tell us! If my
guess is correct, all you need to do is enter the BIOS to configure your
PC to boot off the CD-ROM drive. The method to enter the BIOS depends on
your motherboard. See:
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/bios_manufacturer.htm
Keep in mind that a clean install deletes *everything* -- all your data,
settings, and programs. You will need to back up all your data and
settings first. You will need to have all your program installation
files and drivers for your hardware. Clean installations, although
effective, can be time-consuming. They are generally not recommended for
addressing problems (unless your system has been severely compromised).
It's usually better to deal with the problem at hand. If you would
prefer to do that, this newsgroup is a good place start. Another option
is to perform a repair install, which repairs your Windows installation
without deleting your files, settings, and programs.
"dareys" <dar...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:CE3F62B9-CDA2-4439...@microsoft.com...
Big_Al
an image (restore to factory defaults) and not installing XP as you want
to. Its not wrong, but its not an 'install'. I had an Acer years ago
and found that all it did was some prepwork and then pkunzipped a file
to the HD. That was their restore. And yes, you booted and it asked
a simple question and bingo, it ran and that was it. Maybe a please
wait screen. And that's not XP. XP asks a number of questions and
very boldly tells you that you are loading XP and shows Windows logos
with acceptance messages etc.
dareys
Thank you for the speedy and thorough response, which was extremely helpful.
I had forgotten that there is only one disk in the XP install, something I
just used several times in the last six months, but on a different machine. I
was not sure things would apply this time since I am working on different
hardware.
I am also aware of repair installs and parallel installs both of which I
have also performed, sometimes inadvertently, on other machines. As far as
booting, I did configure the BIOS correctly. Thank you for the reminder.
In any case, the disks that I have are an image of what was on the computer
the time it was purchased. So, no it does not look like I have the base
Windows XP CD that would be required for a fresh installation.
I have just copied the manufacturer with your response to see if perhaps
they can send me that in a zip file, but I think that is a tall order.
As far as repairs, I am done with that. This machine seems to be
compromised. Sound drivers disappear at will for example, and I have
re-installed them over half a dozen times. I really want to reformat and
start from scratch.
Data is not the problem. I have backups of that. I need a stable system. I
have spent more time fixing equipment than using it for what I need it. In
any case, if you really think I should post the manufacturer and model, let
me know.
Many thanks for your help.
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
dareys
Thank you for the response. You are right. That is exactly what is
happening. No, not wrong, but not what I am trying to do. Please see my
response to Daave for more detail.
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
Bruce Chambers
> Greetings,
>
> I have been experiencing a number of problems with Windows XP Home Edition
> (SP2) on my machine.
>
> At this point, I have re-installed the operating system half a dozen times
> with the same suspect behaviour, in spite of getting new install disks from
> the hardware vendor.
>
Then it's probably time to look for the real cause of this unidentified
"suspect behavior," wouldn't you say? If repeated installations of the
OS aren't addressing your issues, then it's clear that there is
something else wrong; most likely defective hardware.
Why not describe the specifics of this "suspect behavior" so we can get
to the root cause of your problems?
> So, now I am considering a low level format of the machine, but I am having
> a very hard time locating a boot disk containing the format or fdisk
> commands. Can anyone point me to where I could find these files, on this
> site, hopefully?
>
FDisk is an old MS-DOS utility that is neither available or needed
in WinXP. All legitimate WinXP installation CDs are bootable and have
the capability of deleting, creating, and formatting partitions.
Simply boot from the WinXP installation CD. You'll be offered the
opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part of the
installation process. (You may need to re-arrange the order of boot
devices in the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD.)
HOW TO Install Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;316941
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html
http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm
--
Bruce Chambers
Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin
Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell
The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot
dareys
Thank you for the response.
I have re-installed the OS several times, but it has not been a "fresh"
install, including a reformat. Rather, like Daave suggests, it has been a
repair install, without a reformat.
The suspect behaviour, among other things, boils down to this. In spite of
complete hardware diagnostics which have come clean, the sound drivers
periodically disappear. The speakers, headset etc are ok. Just the drivers
get "corrupted".
I have re-installed them half a dozen times, only to see them disappear...
At this point I want a fresh copy of BIOS, and a fresh version of the OS and
drivers for my specific hardware just to see if that works. When I have done
that, if the same behaviour persists, then I will have to assume the problem
is with the sound card.
BTW, I have configured the BIOS to boot from CD, but the CDs that I have are
image CDs not Windows XP install disks.
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
Xandros
got to be a lot safer than flashing the BIOS - which will not help the issue
you are seeing and reinstalling the OS - which will not help the problem you
are seeing. Following that try another sound card.
If you've already run diagnostics then there should be no reason to do a
low-level format. Perhaps you don't really know what a low-level format is?
Modern hard drives do not require low-level formatting. You can do it but
essentially it would be a waste of time. Doing so will require a tool from
your hard drive manufacturer
If you feel you must reinstall your OS again then why not do a clean install
by deleting your existing partitions, reformat and do a fresh install.
You say you don't have a retail version of XP so you don't have the Recovery
Console but you should still be able to wipe the drive using this bootable
CD that contains the XP Recovery Console
http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/tools/bootdiscs/xp_rec_con.zip All you
have to do is boot the CD, access the Recovery Console, type DISKPART at the
command prompt, delete the partition, type EXIT when it is finished, remove
the CD and pop in your image restore CD then hit the Enter key.
--
Xandros
"dareys" <dar...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1A3FC83C-8DDA-4280...@microsoft.com...
dareys
I have been performing this kind of activity, on and off, since the early
eighties, and frankly, I don't know everything, but I think I know what it is
to partition, format and re-install AN OS.
Anyway, I want a clean slate, and I want to configure things the way I want.
Sorry about that, but hey, everyone knows what they like, and in my book, a
reformat is a reformat, no matter what thinks are like these days.
Remember, once a programmer, always a programmer.
In any case, I thank you for the information. I hope it helps.
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
Daave
As long as the PC manufacturer provides you a method for restoring
your
system to how it originally was, they are keeping up their end of the
bargain. Unfortunately, many PC naufacturers elect to supply either a
recovery disk or hard drive partition to do the job, and both are
inferior for obvious reasons to supplying an XP installation disk.
This
is why I would never purchase such a PC; having an actual XP
installation disk is very beneficial as I'm sure you will agree.
I highly doubt the PC manufacturer will send you an installation
disk,
but I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask.
But Bruce brings up a good point. If you restore your PC to its
original
condition, then you can consider that a de facto formatting and a
clean
install. Plus, you actually have the added benefit of not having to
install drivers because they are already there. However, this assumes
you are using all the original equipment. If you have changed any of
your hardware, then you will need to track down the correct driver(s)
and install them properly. If you still have a problem, then it sure
sounds like you have a hardware, rather than a software, issue. Maybe
all you need to do is configure the BIOS properly. That is, for
example,
determine what kind of graphics card you have -- onboard or discrete
--
and configure accordingly. Also, use a barebones setup; don't have
anything connected you don't need at first -- for instance, an
external
USB hard drive. And since this sounds like a hardware issue, you will
probably have better luck posting to a hardware newsgroup. I like
this
one:
alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Good luck!
> > >> > Jean-Pierre- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Lil' Dave
connected to, and, bios capable of low-level formatting by the scsi bios,
refrain from doing so on any other hard drive connection type for low-level
formatting.
Fdisk.exe and format.com are msdos operating system files. They are not of
any connection with low-level formatting.
If you want help, describe your problem.
--
Dave
"dareys" <dar...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:31A5D43A-FC0D-4BB9...@microsoft.com...
Daave
In case something is being filtered, please look here:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/41e7069402445a7a?hl=en
"dareys" <dar...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:115BE0DA-4A8D-47C2...@microsoft.com...
Xandros
advantage to doing a low level format on a modern drive. If all you want to
do is a reformat then use the tool I sent the link to but be aware that a
low level format is a much different thing than a simple format.
--
Xandros
"dareys" <dar...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3BA15068-8089-4087...@microsoft.com...
Ken Blake, MVP
<arron.neus*remove*@gmail.com> wrote:
> Whatever. My advice is sound. Take it or leave it. There is essentially no
> advantage to doing a low level format on a modern drive. If all you want to
> do is a reformat then use the tool I sent the link to but be aware that a
> low level format is a much different thing than a simple format.
Although I basically agree with your paragraph above, let me add the
following:
Low-level formatting was a technique that used to be used (many years
ago) on hard drives. It is no longer used, and if someone finds an old
low-level format program and uses it on a modern drive, it will ruin
the drive. There are modern programs that do disk reinitialization and
can be used. Unfortunately these are often erroneously called
"low-level format" programs. My view is that giving them that old name
is very poor practice, and leads to the possibility that someone may
mistakenly find and use an old low-level format program and ruin a
modern drive with it.
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Patrick Keenan
"dareys" <dar...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1A3FC83C-8DDA-4280...@microsoft.com...
>
> Thank you for the response.
>
> I have re-installed the OS several times, but it has not been a "fresh"
> install, including a reformat. Rather, like Daave suggests, it has been a
> repair install, without a reformat.
>
> The suspect behaviour, among other things, boils down to this. In spite of
> complete hardware diagnostics which have come clean, the sound drivers
> periodically disappear. The speakers, headset etc are ok. Just the drivers
> get "corrupted".
>
> I have re-installed them half a dozen times, only to see them disappear...
>
> At this point I want a fresh copy of BIOS, and a fresh version of the OS
> and
> drivers for my specific hardware just to see if that works. When I have
> done
> that, if the same behaviour persists, then I will have to assume the
> problem
> is with the sound card.
>
> BTW, I have configured the BIOS to boot from CD, but the CDs that I have
> are
> image CDs not Windows XP install disks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jean-Pierre
Well, it seems that someone else just posted exactly this same problem and
how she fixed it.
Look for a post called "Audio driver keeps disappearing", followed by three
titled "FIXED", two of which contain this text:
"Got the patch number from the folks at annoyances.org So its fixed. (And
it
was a Windows update that caused reaktek to not work)"
"The update that caused the issue was KB925902. The Patch that fixed it was
KB935448.
Again it was a realtek audio driver that it works for.
Thanks!
Nancy"
HTH
-pk
Xandros
news:s4p6f4t3im32th8q4...@4ax.com...
Thanks Ken. I didn't realize that doing a low level format on a newer drive
could damage it so that's helpful to keep in mind.
--
Xandros
Ken Blake, MVP
You're welcome. Glad to help. My main point though, is not just that
it will damage the drive, but that the terminology is mixed up and
confuses people. Although some people really mean "low-level format"
when they use the term, others mean disk reinitialization and that
confusion of terminology greatly increases the risk of disk damage.
dareys
Well, whatever I downloaded did not have it... Perhaps I should try again.
Thank you.
Jean-Pierre
dareys
Yes, stuff was beeing filtered. I followed the link and read your message.
Thank you.
I am aware of the driver issue if I install bare bones from install disks
geared for other computers, but I have nothing to loose, and I can track all
of this down and or re-install from the current disks once I have reformated.
Thank you for the site on building the PC from scratch. I might have to use
it.
In any case, I am continuing the troubleshooting. Right now, I think it is a
software problem.
Jean-Pierre
dareys
Thank you for the response. No problems with the boot sequence from CD or
subsequent errors. Only disappearing drivers.
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
dareys
Thought I had replied before, but it doesn't look like it. Thank you for the
suggestions.
Jean-Pierre
Daave
> I had forgotten that there is only one disk in the XP install,
> something I
> just used several times in the last six months, but on a different
> machine. I
> was not sure things would apply this time since I am working on
> different
> hardware.
Have you tried that particular disk yet? You mentioned you had tried it
on a different machine. Keep in mind that there are different types of
installation disks, and certain disks will not by design work on certain
PCs. For instance, a branded OEM installation disk will only work on
that brand of PC -- and maybe just on certain models.
What is the make and model of your PC? What kind of installtion CD were
you describing in the above paragraph?
> I am also aware of repair installs and parallel installs both of which
> I
> have also performed, sometimes inadvertently, on other machines. As
> far as
> booting, I did configure the BIOS correctly. Thank you for the
> reminder.
>
> In any case, the disks that I have are an image of what was on the
> computer
> the time it was purchased. So, no it does not look like I have the
> base
> Windows XP CD that would be required for a fresh installation.
Is this image disk the same thing you were referring to in your first
paragraph? (I was confused!)
> As far as repairs, I am done with that. This machine seems to be
> compromised. Sound drivers disappear at will for example, and I have
> re-installed them over half a dozen times. I really want to reformat
> and
> start from scratch.
Are you able to identify the specific malware infections your PC
experienced? Or do you just *believe* it was infected because of your
sound card driver issue? I ask because it's possible your PC was never
compromised. Then again, the opposite is also possible. :-)
> Data is not the problem. I have backups of that. I need a stable
> system. I
> have spent more time fixing equipment than using it for what I need
> it. In
> any case, if you really think I should post the manufacturer and
> model, let
> me know.
That's great that you back up your data.
Yes, by all means, let us know the make and model of your PC and the
type of license you have. (I assume it's an original branded OEM
license).
For what it's worth, using your image disk (i.e., recovery or restore
disk or whatever the manufacturer calls it) *will* result in a fresh
install -- just as fresh as if you borrowed someone's generic OEM
installation disk and performed a clean install (including a format).
(Okay, you might have obnoxious trial programs installed on top of the
fresh install, but's it's still a fresh install nonetheless, and the
system would be just as stable.) If you used your recovery disk to
return your PC to its out-of-the-factory state and you still have
problems, it means you definitely have a hardware issue. You can test
that hypothesis if you wish by trying any other method to lay down a
fresh install. I'm sure you will always wind up at the same ending. :-)
My guess is you need to replace your sound card. Or perhaps there's just
an issue of configuring the BIOS properly to recognize the type of sound
card you have (onboard or PCI). So, I would try that first.
In addition to the newsgroup I mentioned in the other post, you may want
to bookmark this Web page:
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Hardware_Tshoot
dareys
Let me try to clarify.
1. The install from factory disks that I was refferring too and that allowed
me
to partition and reformat the disk completely was on a completely
different
machine. And yes, it was from a single disk.
2. Now, I am re-installing from a factory image that install the OS, drivers
and
some software that came with the machine. However, it does not allow for
re-partitionning, nor reformating, and goes through a strange process that
saves and copies files. It is nice, but not what I want.
3. Finally, after re-installing as outlined in 2. above, the sound drivers
invariably
disappear. No corruption. They just vanish, as if they had been deleted.
The last time they stuck around for about three days.
Jean-Pierre
Daave
> 3. Finally, after re-installing as outlined in 2. above, the sound
> drivers invariably disappear. No corruption. They just vanish,
> as if they had been deleted. The last time they stuck around for
> about three days.
What exactly is listed in Device Manager *before* the disappearance?
Is your sound card separate or onboard? Is your BIOS configured
accordingly?
What is the make and model of your sound card? Which driver are you
using for it?
dareys
Thank you for the response.
1. The machine is an IBM ThinkCenter Tower - A50p 8194-KU8
2. The sound card is part of the motherboard. Yes, the BIOS says that sound
is enabled.
3. The sound drivers are SoundBlaster
4. Device Manager shows them as installed before they disappear and then
just does not show them after they are gone under the sound devices.
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
dareys
Thank you for the response. Here is a correction.
1. The machine is an IBM ThinkCenter Tower - A50p 8194-KU8
2. The sound card is part of the motherboard. Yes, the BIOS says that sound
is enabled.
3. The sound drivers are SoundMax Integrated Digital Audio.
4. Device Manager shows them as installed before they disappear and then
just does not show them after they are gone under the sound devices.
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
dareys
I want to delete any existing partitions, make a new one, and then format
the disk (low level or whatever you want to call it) and then install the OS.
I got the disk you indicated and created a boot CD that I think will do the
trick.
Once that is done, I will try to use my own licensed version of Windows XP
to do its thing, whatever it may be.
Thank you.
Jean-Pierre
dareys
I am just trying to delete existing partitions, create a single new one,
install Windows XP.
The disks I have do not allow you to do that.
Xandros provided a site where I got software to create a boot CD which will
allow that.
Once done, I will try to install my actual license disks, having, hopefully
wiped the slate clean of any potential problems.
Regards,
Jean-Pierre
dareys
Thank you for the information. I will look for the information. However, I
don't know if it will apply to my hardware.
Jean-Pierre
dareys
Thank you for the post. No, it is not a SCSI drive.
Here is the issue.
1. Sound drivers disappear randomly, even if I keep installing them.
2. Re-installing the OS and related software will not help the problem.
I don't get the option to remove existing partitions, reformat the disk
and
do a regular install which I want to do as I suspect a virus.
3. I have just acquired software to do 2.
4. When 3. is done, I will re-install my own licensed software.
Jean-Pierre
P.S. I hate to say it as there are over 30 posts in this thread but you can
get more
detail by looking at my responses only.
Daave
> 1. The machine is an IBM ThinkCenter Tower - A50p 8194-KU8
>
> 2. The sound card is part of the motherboard. Yes, the BIOS says that
> sound is enabled.
>
> 3. The sound drivers are SoundMax Integrated Digital Audio.
>
> 4. Device Manager shows them as installed before they disappear and
> then just does not show them after they are gone under the sound
> devices.
My Dell has the same thing: SoundMax Integrated Digital Audio. When I
double-click that entry in Device Manager, I get a Properties window.
When I click on the Driver tab, I get the following:
Driver Provider: Analog Devices
Driver Date: 11/18/2003
Driver Version: 5.12.1.3910
Digital Signer: Microsoft Windows Hardware Compatibility Publ
What do you see in yours?
Also, try Start | Run | msinfo32 [enter] | Sound Device
What do you get?
Did you attempt to install new sound card drivers or not? If so, where
did you get them from? Are they correct for the OS?
Ken Blake, MVP
<dar...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I am just trying to delete existing partitions, create a single new one,
> install Windows XP.
That's fine if that's what you want to do. My point was simply that
you should be sure *not* to do a low-level format.