Sleep vs Hybernate?
Bob Newman
necessary to hibernate (save wear & tear on the computer) instead of sleep?
Saving energy is not a priority, saving my computer is. I am under the
impression that my scheduled night time backups will run in sleep but not
hibernate modes. Is this correct?
Bob
Randem
be saved to the HD and retrieved when you press the power button. Your
computer is actually OFF. In Sleep/StandBy mode your computer is in a low
power mode and can be awaken by the movement/activation of a device.
--
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"Bob Newman" <bobn...@cox.net> wrote in message
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Opinicus
> in Hibernation mode, nothing will run. The state your computer was in will
> be saved to the HD and retrieved when you press the power button. Your
> computer is actually OFF. In Sleep/StandBy mode your computer is in a low
> power mode and can be awaken by the movement/activation of a device.
In that case, what's the difference between "off" and "hibernate"?
--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com
.
machine turns off.
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"Opinicus" <gez...@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid> wrote in message
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Randem
back on it will go to the exact state it was turned off, IE. any program
loaded will be reloaded to the point where it hibernated. With turning the
machine, you have to start all over again. No programs will be running.
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Your Installation Specialist
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"Opinicus" <gez...@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid> wrote in message
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Nate Grossman
>The big difference is that in Hibernation mode when you turn the machine
>back on it will go to the exact state it was turned off, IE. any program
>loaded will be reloaded to the point where it hibernated.
And it will do so much faster than if you started from OFF.
Paul
The ACPI states are mentioned here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acpi
The ones of note might be
S1 Standby (mainly monitor power savings - fans still spinning)
S3 Standby suspend to RAM. Session stored in RAM. Fans off. +5VSB running.
If the computer is switched off at the back by accident, the contents
of RAM are lost. A fresh boot would result at the next session.
S4 Hibernate. Session stored on disk. Fans off. +5VSB running.
If the computer is switched off at the back by accident, the hiberfile is
still there. (I haven't tested my current computer, to see if the hiberfile
gets used on a reboot after a complete power failure.)
G3 Mechanical off. +5VSB is no longer running. RTC runs from the CMOS battery.
How the ATX power supply works, is like this.
---- AC_Input --- rectified_DC ---+---- +5VSB power conversion
| (Standby power source, some power waste)
|
+---- +3.3/+5/+12/-12 power conversion
Fans spin when running
Main power source for computer
If you use S3 or S4, then the upper power conversion section is
still running. Hibernate doesn't really need it, as the session
is stored on disk. S3 Suspend To RAM does need the +5VSB power,
to power the RAM sticks while they're self-refreshing.
The power supply may use 5-10W (a guess) when +5VSB is being provided,
and some of the chips that have wake up capabilities, need some
power to do their job. For example, a computer with "Wake On LAN",
may consume 300mA current flow to the LAN chip, in order for the
magic packet to be recognized when it is received. So the WakeUp
capable circuits still need some power, if they're to wake the computer.
Removing all power (G3) is the least stress, as then the AC
is disconnected via the switch on the back of the computer.
It will wear down your CMOS CR2032 battery faster though. The
battery is not allowed to be charged by the computer, and the
RTC (real time clock) has fairly low power needs (several microamps).
The RTC will use the battery, during G3. The RTC uses +5VSB derived
power, in S3 or S4, or during regular operation.
Using G3 (mechanical off) is not going to allow scheduled tasks to
run. But one of the other states, that allows the machine to wake up,
might be suitable.
I don't really see a lot to get excited about, in the above
description. S4 takes a bit of time to recover from. S3 means
you have an exposure to a power failure. In S3 or S4, the upper
half of the power supply is still running, but there is no fan to
cool whatever heat is thrown off.
Paul
Jon
Although this doesn't answer your question fully, let me explain the difference between shutdown,
hibernate and sleep...
If you shut down your PC, it closes all of your programmes (eg Word, Firefox) if you haven't done so
already, then turns itself off. When you turn your PC back on again, you have to re-launch all of
your programmes.
If you hibernate, it doesn't actually close your programmes, but instead saves their "state" to the
hard disk, then turns itself off. When you turn your PC back on again, the PC recovers the "state"
of all the programmes, and what you see is exactly what you saw before you hibernated - all the
programmes that you were running previously and with all the documents open as they were before, and
even with the cursor at the same position in (eg) your Word document. It also generally starts your
PC quicker than if you started it up after shutting it down first.
If you sleep, the PC powers down as much as it can (monitor, hard disk, and a few other things) but
doesn't power down the memory, which saves the "state" of all your programmes. When you turn your PC
back on again, the PC still has the "state" of all the programmes, and what you see is exactly what
you saw before you hibernated - all the programmes that you were running previously and with all the
documents open as they were before, and even with the cursor at the same position in (eg) your Word
document.
In both shut-down and hibernate, you can actually unplug your PC from the mains (and disconnect the
battery if you have a laptop) and all will be OK when you power up again.
In sleep, you must not unplug the mains/remove the battery, otherwise the programme state will be
lost, and you will lose the changes of any unsaved documents. There is also a small risk that you
may corrupt Windows in some way if you do this, although this is fairly unlikely.
Shutdown and hibernate use the least power (called "standby power") which is identical for both
modes, and use zero power if you actually unplug your PC from the mains.
Sleep uses more power, although usually it is pretty low, especially for a laptop.
Modern computers are designed to cope with being shut down, hibernated and set to sleep, so unless
you're doing this every hour or less, I wouldn't worry about wear and tear in any of the three ways.
Good luck,
Jon
"Bob Newman" <bobn...@cox.net> wrote in message news:BFKOl.66521$HZ1....@newsfe15.iad...
3c273
Louis
"Opinicus" <gez...@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid> wrote in message
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John John - MVP
> Scheduled tasks will wake the computer from hibernation. Off is off.
No, scheduled task cannot take the computer out of hibernation because
hibernation is also *off*.
John
3c273
hibernation. I even woke up early the other morning and watched it. Perhaps
you're not doing it right.
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/window-on-windows/?p=828
Louis
"John John - MVP" <aude...@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
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SC Tom
wrong- wouldn't be the first time).
http://www.terranovum.com/projects/energystar/standby_v_hiber.html
SC Tom
"3c273" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
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3c273
Resource Kit Documentation"
Sample chapter can be found at
http://www.microsoft.com/mspress/books/sampchap/5566d.aspx
Scroll down to the section labeled "Enabling Devices to Wake the Computer".
<quote>
On ACPI-compatible systems, Windows XP Professional can enable some devices
to wake the system from the hibernation or standby.
</quote>
I believe that you need to have one of your devices configured to be able to
wake the machine, such as wake on LAN. I read somewhere that WOL is the
mechanism used to do this but I can't find a reference. At any rate, I am
quite sure that my machine comes out of hibernation every morning or else I
wouldn't still have my job as my computer is my alarm clock and I manually
hibernate it every night.
Louis
"SC Tom" <s...@tom.net> wrote in message
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John John - MVP
author used the wrong term to describe what he is doing, he is waking up
a sleeping machine, a machine on stand by, he doesn't show in his
article how he got the machine to the sleeping state to later "wake" it
up. A hibernating computer is turned off. Hibernate saves everything
in the RAM to a file on disk (hiberfil.sys) and then it *completely*
shuts down the computer, when the computer is restarted the hiberfil
file is sucked back into memory and the Windows session is restored to
the state it was when it was hibernated. Other than saving the RAM to
disk hibernate does the very same thing as shutting down the computer.
The ntldr boot loader has special code in it and when the computer is
booted it looks for the hiberfil.sys file in the root of the boot
volume, if ntldr finds this file it sucks it into memory and returns the
computer back from hibernation. If ntldr doesn't find an hiberfil.sys
file it parses the boot.ini file or looks for the Windows installation
and it boots Windows normally. An hibernated computer is turned off, it
cannot be turned on by any Windows feature because Windows is completely
knocked out when the computer hibernates. Look in your Windows help
files for more information.
John
3c273
Resource Kit Documentation"
Sample chapter can be found at
http://www.microsoft.com/mspress/books/sampchap/5566d.aspx
Scroll down to the section labeled "Enabling Devices to Wake the Computer".
<quote>
On ACPI-compatible systems, Windows XP Professional can enable some devices
Happens every day at my house. Look beyond the windows help files for more
information.
Louis
"John John - MVP" <aude...@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
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Emry
Interesting expose of different power levels, especially for a novice
news-group user like me.
Have a question about relating to this when using a 3 year old comp with Win
XP. When I click Turn Off Computer the next window has 3 options: Turn Off,
Re Start, Stand By; the last blanked out so SB does not function. Any
solutions?
Thanks..Emry
"Jon" <-> wrote in message news:ecR8kMH1...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
3c273
http://www.vbforums.com/archive/index.php/t-396217.html
Louis
"3c273" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
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John John - MVP
turned off cannot be awaken by the knocked out Windows on the same said
computer, the magic WOL packet has to be *sent* to the sleeping machine.
The option to turn on WOL on the adapter from within Windows simply
changes the option in the adapter firmware to enable it to accept WOL
packets. This has nothing to do with Windows or hibernate at all.
John
John John - MVP
disagree with Microsoft. You are misinterpreting what is mentioned in
the resource kit, these ACPI features can wake the system from
*hibernation* or standby, these ACPI features would be things like WOL
or Wake on Ring. There is *absolutely no way* that you are waking up a
hibernating computer with a Scheduled Task! The only way that could
happen would be for a scheduled task on *another* computer to send a
wake up call to the hibernating computer, the Windows installation on
the hibernating computer absolutely cannot bring the computer out of
hibernation, standby yes, hibernation, no.
From Microsoft:
"Like sleep, hibernate is a power-saving state. In Windows Vista, sleep
saves your settings in memory and draws a small amount of power to
maintain that memory. Hibernate, on the other hand, writes your settings
and the content of memory to the hard disk and then completely powers
down the system."
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2008.05.sustainablecomputing2.aspx
Same thing for Windows 2000 and Windows XP, the system is completely
powered down after the hiberfil.sys file is written, scheduled tasks are
no longer available and Windows cannot reawaken itself from a powered
down state, something else has to initiate the power up.
John
(PeteCresswell)
>That's funny, because my computer wakes me up every morning from
>hibernation. I even woke up early the other morning and watched it. Perhaps
>you're not doing it right.
>http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/window-on-windows/?p=828
I suspected that somehow my PC can be awakened from hibernation.
I say this bc when it's in whatever mode it's in, all the power
lights are off and I have to hit the "on" switch to wake it up.
In various sleep modes I've used, the power lights never went all
off.
Mine wakes up every morning in response to Windows Home Server
wanting to back it up.
OTOH, I just did a search and could not find a "hiberfil.sys" on
any of the drives; so I'm probably wrong... but it sure *looks*
dead.
--
PeteCresswell
John John - MVP
post carefully:
"So, here is my workaround: Keep the PC in Hibernate (Suspend) mode and
wake it up at 6:00am."
Read more of his code and you will see that his code is relying on
Windows APIs and function calls to "wake up" the computer, he is missing
the fact that the hibernating computer is *turned off*, he has the
terminology mixed up. You can no more wake up an hibernating computer
with this code than you can one that is powered off without hibernate!
"Suspend" mode is NOT hibernate, you can search all you want on the
internet it will not change facts, a hibernating computer is powered
off, that is how hibernation works, the Windows session resumes when
ntldr reads and loads the hiberfil.sys file. I don't care what you say
or what any article on the web says you are simply not using Windows on
the powered off computer to turn it on, that is simply impossible. The
powered off computer can be turned on by other means but it cannot be
done by by Windows when Windows isn't running! People are confusing
Standby with Hibernate.
John
Tim Meddick
I am not going to disagree with you on the way WOL can only affect
systems in standby (S1 S2 S3) modes but not in hibernate (S4). But you
mention that on waking a hibernated system, the boot loader [ntldr] 'looks'
for the file hiberfil.sys and, if present 'sucks' (your word, not mine) it
back into RAM.
This cannot be true as my system constantly has a file by that name in
the root of the system drive. Although, I have been looking for hours for
the answer to this question, I cannot tell by what means the boot loader
DOES work out if it needs to LOAD hiberfil.sys or not (probably, it is by
means of either looking for a value in the registry or looking for a 'flag'
on the disk).
As I can't seem to find clarification on this subject from elsewhere, so
I thought I'd come back here and ask you.
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
"John John - MVP" <aude...@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
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Tim Meddick
that disables advanced power management (APM) or disables sleep
(save-to-ram) states.
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
"Emry" <bel...@telus.net> wrote in message
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3c273
mouse, and monitors plugged in to make sure that the network wasn't waking
it up. It does it every morning. I guess you are calling me a liar as I
hibernate my machine every night before bed and the windows task scheduler
wakes the machine up and starts playing music every morning. I watched it
happen last week and I just watched it happen again with a new scheduled
task. The BIOS screen comes up and then the "resuming windwws" progress bar
scrolls and then the music starts playing. If you look at my posting
history, you'll see that I'm not just some troll disagreeing with you.
You've helped me before, so I know that you are knowlegedable, but on this
subject, you are just wrong. Don't be aftaid to admit it.
Louis
"John John - MVP" <aude...@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
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3c273
(and even from the off state) and a scheduled task will wake it. I do it
every day. Dell Optiplex 755, XP SP3, BIOS revision A13.
Louis
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
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Jeff Barnett
> There again, the author is confusing hibernate with standby, read his
> post carefully:
>
> "So, here is my workaround: Keep the PC in Hibernate (Suspend) mode
> and wake it up at 6:00am."
>
> Read more of his code and you will see that his code is relying on
> Windows APIs and function calls to "wake up" the computer, he is
> missing the fact that the hibernating computer is *turned off*, he has
> the terminology mixed up. You can no more wake up an hibernating
> computer with this code than you can one that is powered off without
> hibernate!
>
> "Suspend" mode is NOT hibernate, you can search all you want on the
> internet it will not change facts, a hibernating computer is powered
> off, that is how hibernation works, the Windows session resumes when
> ntldr reads and loads the hiberfil.sys file. I don't care what you
> say or what any article on the web says you are simply not using
> Windows on the powered off computer to turn it on, that is simply
> impossible. The powered off computer can be turned on by other means
> but it cannot be done by by Windows when Windows isn't running!
> People are confusing Standby with Hibernate.
>
> John
waken a hibernating computer? Of course that is how a suspended (S1 or
S3) computer is brought back to life to run scheduled tasks!
--
Jeff Barnett
3c273
inside the real time clock.
<quote>
Scheduled tasks use the real time clock (RTC) and power management events
(PMEs) provided by the Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) to
wake the machine out of system standby or hibernate. On the settings tab of
a scheduled task, an option labeled "Wake the machine to run this task" will
set a PME inside the RTC for the time when the task is scheduled to run.
</quote>
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=power_mgt.pr_power_mgt_win_task
Louis
"John John - MVP" <aude...@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
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3c273
power management event in the real time clock. I do it every day and if you
are good at using Google, you will find others that do it also.
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=power_mgt.pr_power_mgt_win_task
Louis
"Jeff Barnett" <jbb...@ca.rr.com> wrote in message
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John John - MVP
S3 states and as to whether or not power will remain available to the
network adapter when the computer is hibernated, I think this will
depend on the available power options in the BIOS. If hibernating the
computer cuts the power to the network adapter then WOL will not be
possible.
The 'sucks' the contents of the hiberfil.sys into memory is from Raymond
Chen. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc137769.aspx If you
hibernate your computer and then unplug it while it is hibernating the
contents of the RAM are sure to be flushed, when you plug it back it and
restart it it will boot to the hibernated desktop, hibernation relies on
the hiberfil.sys file, not anything stored in RAM. It could be that
when you hibernate the machine there is an ntldr flag of sorts written
in the file and that the flag is remove when the machine resumes
successfully, I don't know for sure, its a guess.
John
3c273
>I would have to run some tests to see how hibernating affect the S1 S2 S3
>states and as to whether or not power will remain available to the network
>adapter when the computer is hibernated, I think this will depend on the
>available power options in the BIOS. If hibernating the computer cuts the
>power to the network adapter then WOL will not be possible.
use it to start machines that are off all the time at work.
Louis
John John - MVP
> John,
> I am not going to disagree with you on the way WOL can only affect
> systems in standby (S1 S2 S3) modes but not in hibernate (S4).
I have just checked that on one of my machines and my network adapter
allows WOL when the machine is hibernating. This would depend on your
adapter.
John
Tim Meddick
It's no good going on and on about it. Okay, YOUR computer
supports Task Scheduler configuration of the extended BIOS (i.e. it can set
the automatic wake-up timer in the BIOS) and yes, WOL will bring a computer
out of any (including hibernate S4 and S5 (switched off but plugged in)
sleep states) given that:- the network card AND the mobo both support it
AND the correct signal ('magic' packet, directed packet, etc.) is sent and
received by the machine.
However, there are many more signals and interrupts that can bring a PC
out of the other sleep states that are NOT supported when in the S4
(hibernate) sleep state, including signals sent via a network card. Plus,
the ability for the OS to configure the BIOS's wake timer is a new one that
is NOT available on most systems.
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
"3c273" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
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Tim Meddick
That's what I was thinking (about the 'flag' that is)
But Mr 3c273 is right about the network cards on today's machines - the
lights are on the network card's rear plate when a machine is plugged in to
both power and network cable. 'magic' packets have been around for some
time but now you have 'magic packets', 'directed packets', 'wake on magic
packet from power off state' and 'wake on link'!!!
I have never heard of the OS being able to configure the BIOS's wake up
timer as Mr 3c273 says his Task Scheduler does. But, he says it does and I
know that computers have been increasing the ability to control settings in
what is called the extended BIOS including APM and this agrees with what I
have been reading about the subject.
I'd still like to know what causes ntldr to start loading hiberfil.sys
though!
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
"John John - MVP" <aude...@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
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3c273
won't do it but he said that it wasn't possible and it is. No ill will
intended.
Louis
"Tim Meddick" <timme...@gawab.com> wrote in message
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John John - MVP
and putting a check mark on the "Wake the computer to run this task".
It does work, I am wrong and you were right all along. I learned
something new about Scheduled Tasks, thank you.
John
Tim Meddick
He (John) is not often wrong (first time that I have seen it) but
has appologized in his lates post (Friday 15 May 2009 3:51am)
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
"3c273" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
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3c273
when you do something every day and someone tells you it's not possible,
well, it gets me a little wound up. Keep up the good work, you are one of
the better MVPs.
Louis
"John John - MVP" <aude...@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
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.
--
.
--
"3c273" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
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Tim Meddick
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
<.> wrote in message news:%23DvkB5Q...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
John John - MVP
> I'd still like to know what causes ntldr to start loading hiberfil.sys
> though!
"NTLDR locates and parses Hiberfil.sys to determine if it contains a
valid hibernator file. If a valid hibernator file is found, then that
file is loaded into memory and execution continues from the point the
computer was placed into hibernation."
How Windows Starts Up (Part the second)
http://blogs.msdn.com/ntdebugging/archive/2007/06/28/how-windows-starts-up-part-the-second.aspx
John
Tim Meddick
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
"John John - MVP" <aude...@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
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