New CCleaner Out
@li@s
siljaline
option -
Silj
--
siljaline
MS - MVP Windows (IE/OE) & Security, AH-VSOP
_________________________________________
Security Tools Updates
http://aumha.net/viewforum.php?f=31
Reply to group, as return address
is invalid that we may all benefit.
Michael
> Watch out for the added context menu options and especially the Yahoo Toolbar
> option -
>
> Silj
>
What do you mean by "context menu"? I don't see it.
Alias, who isn't allowed to post on MS servers by that name.
Mike M
How come?
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Michael
>> Alias, who isn't allowed to post on MS servers by that name.
>
> How come?
I was critical of WPA and WGA. I also insisted that with a generic OEM
XP one can upgrade or replace a defective motherboard.
A
Michael
I am guessing, of course, because I was not informed as to why I was
censored or even that I was.
A
Mike M
I'm sorry but that makes no sense to me whatsoever. Are you trying to say
that because you criticised WPA/WGA you are no longer allowed to post as
Alias? I cannot believe that that is the case. Microsoft do not control
the nics used by those posting to the newsgroups other than that those
using the web interface have to log on using Passport but even there the
nic does not have to be unique.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Mike M
> I am guessing, of course, because I was not informed as to why I was
> censored or even that I was.
Censored? In what way? Critics are never "censored", the only posts that
are removed are those containing gross profanity, verbal abuse, spamming
or contain a virus or similar and on occasion where a poster has
inadvertently posted personal or confidential information.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Michael
> Michael <n...@aol.net> wrote:
>
>> I am guessing, of course, because I was not informed as to why I was
>> censored or even that I was.
>
> Censored? In what way?
My posts were either removed from MS' servers or not even allowed onto
others. I was using msnews.microsoft.com
Critics are never "censored", the only posts
> that are removed are those containing gross profanity, verbal abuse,
> spamming or contain a virus or similar and on occasion where a poster
> has inadvertently posted personal or confidential information.
OK, removed or not allowed out, although I would consider that a form of
censorship.
A
Michael
They filtered out the word "alias" "@lias" and "@li@s" and/or the email
address. I don't know which. As I was not told why this was done, I
don't really know what it was due to.
A.
Mike M
> They filtered out the word "alias" "@lias" and "@li@s" and/or the
> email address. I don't know which. As I was not told why this was
> done, I don't really know what it was due to.
I feel I'm seeing more than a touch of paranoia here. In all the years
I've been posting to msnews I have never known of a poster being censored
in the way that you claim and certainly never simply based on their
posting alias. I am however aware of many cases where synch problems
across the nntp server farm have led a user to become paranoid.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Alias
Mike M
you are being censored in any way unless you are using profanities or
being abusive to other posters. Microsoft rarely if ever censor those
criticising their products in the newsgroups provided they keep the
language clean and don't post cracks or commercially sensitive
A
> Just don't let your paranoia bite you in the butt. I very much doubt
> that you are being censored in any way unless you are using profanities
> or being abusive to other posters. Microsoft rarely if ever censor
> those criticising their products in the newsgroups provided they keep
> the language clean and don't post cracks or commercially sensitive
> information.
Do an experiment. Access windowsxp.general with MS's servers. Search for
"Alias" in the From field. Do the same thing with another server. I
guarantee you that they've been pulled from MS' server and will still be
on the other server, Google, or individual.net for example. I have
confirmed that and so have other posters on windowsxp.general.
Not only will you see that these posts were censored by doing this, you
will see what content was censored.
A
A
I am sure. In a thread I will see others posting before and after me,
using MS servers, mind you and mine say:
Error!
newsgroup server responded:no such article number in group
Perhaps the article has expired
<Os524MGc...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl> (1525702)
Click here to remove all expired articles
How come older posts are not "expired" in the same thread? How come I
can still see the same post in another news server? How come other
posters who post with news.individual.net can see my posts on that
server but see the above notice when they access through MS' servers?
Perhaps it's because MS is finally realizing that WPA and WGA doesn't
stop pirates and only infuriates end users and doesn't like to be
reminded by the likes of me?
A
TomV
http://www.ccleaner.com/downloadbuilds.asp
webster72n
Glad you mentioned it, Silj.
If Alias (Michael) doesn't know what the context menu is, he must have been
asleep when installing *the thing*, or was he doing something else? <g>. (No
offense, Alias!)
If I recall correctly, the only thing I uncheck is the toolbar.
Do you remember what the others are?
Harry.
"siljaline" <silj...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%23N11RYG...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
siljaline
> The "Basic" and "Slim" builds don't include the toolbar.
>
> http://www.ccleaner.com/downloadbuilds.asp
>
That's assuming the user can find that URL, which *is* hard to find.
Best bet! - No added context menu and No Yahoo toolbar.
During the install process - select - no added menu items, no toolbar.
Mike M
thread at 23:56 BST last night and spoofed the from address to be Alias
and aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org. This message did appear here but
this morning (7:30 BST) it is no longer available. I responded to my
spoofed message three minutes later (23:59 BST) and that message is also
now missing. My spoofed post (but not my reply to it) can be seen in the
Google archive
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsme.general/browse_frm/thread/d9001246f95b489d/a3e53063ce78ae2c?lnk=st&q=insubject%3ANew+insubject%3ACCleaner+insubject%3Aout&rnum=1&hl=en#a3e53063ce78ae2c
I am unclear as to why this is happening to you or rather to messages
posted using the nic "Alias". I'm pretty certain that this isn't an
intended ongoing censorship of your posts. As I mentioned, historically
Microsoft have not attempted to censor all posts from an individual, only
where they include profanity or abuse or include commercially sensitive
information, not where they simply criticise, using reasonable language, a
Microsoft product.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Mike M
"Alias", that are being removed from the server.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Shane
I agree censorship does happen on xp.general. I don't consider it a
companywide policy but peculiar to the Brannigan-influenced ones. If he
decides a post is, let's say 'morally questionable' he'll have it pulled,
but - like the majority of the mvp's on the xp groups - he's very much a
company man and he'll allow the kind of behaviour that ought to be
prosecuted as a crime (such as that of butthead) go on far longer than
criticism of the microsoft corporate greed-inspired behaviour all too
evident today.
I am so sick of WGA - and being reminded that I've hidden an 'important'
update whenever I go to WU - that I complained to MS about being treated
like a child, and the reply I got was exactly what you'd expect - hell, they
could have got Carey, or Bruce, or Jupiter to dictate it!
Microsoft are becoming too big to affect and they're shaping the future (so
we *will* end up renting the whole shebang and having less control of our
own machines than they have. Just as civil liberties are disappearing in the
UK and the US now, because now they have the technology to make it stick.
I'm reminded of an attitude that persists, hopefully only in the older
generations, that of not going to the doctor, not calling an ambulance, not
taking a pet to the vet, because 'it might not be anything', 'I wouldn't
want to be a trouble', etc etc etc. When they do decide it's serious enough
to make a fuss, it's too late).
Hey, Mike! This isn't meant to imply anything, just an aside this subject
has reminded me of. I've been back to London recently, necessarily
travelling about on the tube with my backpack. Last time I had the beard
again, too! And I got off at Stockwell, though I'd ditched the bag by then!
Interesting question - am I *actually* risking my life?
I've got totally sidetracked now! Wish I could remember what I turned the
bloody computer on for!
Shane
Alias
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Mike M <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote:
> It seems it may not be just your posts, or rather those made using
> the nic "Alias", that are being removed from the server.
>
Mike M
> It seems it may not be just your posts, or rather those made using
> the nic "Alias", that are being removed from the server.
Let's try again. It seems as if the following post made at 07:54 BST this
morning was also removed from the server.
<Quote>
Mike M
post it a few minutes ago. Let's see if I have more success with your
spoof e-mail address removed. If so you will know that it is the address
rather than the nic Alias that is being censored.
<Quote>
Indeed it appears that I owe you my apologies. I posted a message to this
thread at 23:56 BST last night and spoofed the from address to be Alias
and [Your spoof e-mail address edited out]. This message did appear here
but this morning (7:30 BST) it is no longer available. I responded to my
spoofed message three minutes later (23:59 BST) and that message is also
now missing. My spoofed post (but not my reply to it) can be seen in the
Google archive
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsme.general/browse_frm/thread/d9001246f95b489d/a3e53063ce78ae2c?lnk=st&q=insubject%3ANew+insubject%3ACCleaner+insubject%3Aout&rnum=1&hl=en#a3e53063ce78ae2c
I am unclear as to why this is happening to you or rather to messages
posted using the nic "Alias". I'm pretty certain that this isn't an
intended ongoing censorship of your posts. As I mentioned, historically
Microsoft have not attempted to censor all posts from an individual, only
where they include profanity or abuse or include commercially sensitive
information, not where they simply criticise, using reasonable language, a
Microsoft product.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Will Denny
--
Will Denny
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
Please reply to the News Groups
"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
news:%23bJpcbJ...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Mike M
> This thread hasn't been deleted - yet :-))
No,
But any post containing the text "aka @ [notme] masked and anonymous.org"
or that was posted from "aka @ [notme] masked and anonymous.org" has been
deleted. (Added spaces intentional). In a word, disgraceful.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Shane
So, correct me if I'm wrong.
Internationals and the Ashes are on Sky, with highlight shows on Channel 5,
and the rest is on Radio 5.
My uncle wants to know. I thought of you, when he asked! Personally my only
interest in cricket is whether 'we' beat 'David'.
Shane
Will Denny wrote:
> This thread hasn't been deleted - yet :-))
>
>
Will Denny
Yes we got David 'bye' the short and curlies last time :-)) Yup all the
cricket is on Sky - with highlights on C5.
--
Will Denny
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
Please reply to the News Groups
"Shane" <shaneb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Oyz0peOc...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Will Denny
"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote in message
I agree - it's very bad.
Will
Larry Samuels
Our entire conversations regarding WGA are gone from the MS servers when I
reset the newsgroup.
--
Larry Samuels Associate Expert
MS-MVP (2001-2005)
Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
Expert Zone- www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
"A" <n...@aol.net> wrote in message
news:u6ae83Jc...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
A
I guess they are afraid that WGA will be the bane to Windows. Nothing
like knowing you have a legit copy of windows and going to WU,
downloading the new WGA, rebooting and having messages pop up saying
your Windows is counterfeit. End users must just love that. Instead of
removing this flawed program, when people point it out, they try and
sweep it under the rug. I hear there is going to be a new, "improved"
WGA next Tuesday. I won't download it but how many millions will?
Sigh.
A
A
> Let's try again. It seems as if the following post made at 07:54 BST this
> morning was also removed from the server as was my subsequent attempt to
> post it a few minutes ago. Let's see if I have more success with your
> spoof e-mail address removed. If so you will know that it is the
> address rather than the nic Alias that is being censored.
>
> <Quote>
> Indeed it appears that I owe you my apologies. I posted a message to
> this thread at 23:56 BST last night and spoofed the from address to be
> Alias and [Your spoof e-mail address edited out]. This message did
> appear here but this morning (7:30 BST) it is no longer available. I
> responded to my spoofed message three minutes later (23:59 BST) and that
> message is also now missing. My spoofed post (but not my reply to it)
> can be seen in the Google archive
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsme.general/browse_frm/thread/d9001246f95b489d/a3e53063ce78ae2c?lnk=st&q=insubject%3ANew+insubject%3ACCleaner+insubject%3Aout&rnum=1&hl=en#a3e53063ce78ae2c
>
>
> I am unclear as to why this is happening to you or rather to messages
> posted using the nic "Alias". I'm pretty certain that this isn't an
> intended ongoing censorship of your posts. As I mentioned, historically
> Microsoft have not attempted to censor all posts from an individual, only
> where they include profanity or abuse or include commercially sensitive
> information, not where they simply criticise, using reasonable language, a
> Microsoft product.
This post was censored:
Andrew Martin wrote:
> We install WGA on dozens of computers every week but I have a
customer here who's pc will not install WGA without freezing the entire pc.
>
> Everything has been perfectly working on this pc until automatic
updates tried to install the latest WGA but now it will not install no
matter how (automatic updates / activex control, etc). The whole system
hangs, we can't even hit cntl-alt-del or click anything with the mouse.
>
> The Windows is definately legit, purchased from an MS authorized
vendor by us, not that this would make a difference anyway. Even if it
was not legit, it should just pop up the notification box and not cause
the whole system to hang. We just can't get it to do anything. I've
tried turning off all startup programs and system services, even tried
in safe mode with networking. Nothing works.
>
> I tried the WGA diagnostic tool...it locks up too.
>
> If anyone has an idea on this one let me know...I'm frustrated beyond
words.
> Thanks,
> Andrew
What's even more pathetic is that WGA ONLY benefits MS and does not
benefit the end user in any way.
Have you tried System Restore? <<<<<<
No profanity, no abuse, just my opinion, one I consider to be true.
A
Mike M
> WGA next Tuesday. I won't download it but how many millions will?
Do you mean to replace that released last Tuesday which in itself was an
update for one the week before. OK, I exaggerate maybe slightly 25 April
and before that 15 March.
Nevertheless I still don't understand what is going on here. There has
been extensive discussion of both WPA and WGA over the years since WPA
first reared its ugly head with the release of XP back in 2001. Such
discussions have often been very uncomplimentary to Microsoft but AFAIK
Microsoft have rarely if ever previously chosen to censor such discussions
other than perhaps where clear details of how to crack either WPA or WGA
have been posted. Changes have however occurred in recent months as to
how the newsgroups are managed and perhaps what we are now seeing is a
result of those changes, if so IMO I feel this is not in Microsoft's best
interests.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
A
>> I hear there is going to be a new, "improved"
>> WGA next Tuesday. I won't download it but how many millions will?
>
> Do you mean to replace that released last Tuesday which in itself was an
> update for one the week before.
Yes, or so I heard on xp general.
> OK, I exaggerate maybe slightly 25
> April and before that 15 March.
>
> Nevertheless I still don't understand what is going on here. There has
> been extensive discussion of both WPA and WGA over the years since WPA
> first reared its ugly head with the release of XP back in 2001. Such
> discussions have often been very uncomplimentary to Microsoft but AFAIK
> Microsoft have rarely if ever previously chosen to censor such
> discussions other than perhaps where clear details of how to crack
> either WPA or WGA have been posted. Changes have however occurred in
> recent months as to how the newsgroups are managed and perhaps what we
> are now seeing is a result of those changes, if so IMO I feel this is
> not in Microsoft's best interests.
WGA is not in Microsoft's best interests, nor is WPA for that matter.
The pirates keep right on cracking and the paying customers have to put
up with the flaws in the program, a program that in no way, shape or
form benefits the end user. To give an example, I reinstalled XP the
other day on one of my computers. The NIC wasn't connecting to the
Internet properly so I uninstalled the drivers for the NIC a couple of
times. I rebooted and was asked to activate. It went through online. The
next three times I rebooted, it asked me to activate again because
"substantial hardware had been changed" or something to that effect and,
fortunately, it went through online. The NIC still didn't work, so I
disabled the onboard NIC and put a ReatTech ether card in the PCI slot.
I was NOT asked to activate after rebooting.
Did it ever occur to MS that users want to, gasp!, USE their computers,
not be on the fight piracy team for MS or have to unravel the flaws that
WPA and WGA create?
It doesn't look good for Gates to be over in Africa being Mr. Kindness
when he screws the very same people who made him rich so he can be Mr
Philanthropist.
A
Will Denny
--
Will Denny
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
Please reply to the News Groups
> benefit the end user in any way.
Mike M
benefits and no or few disadvantages. As for WGA, that is different and
for some reason bites some in the butt and others not at all nevertheless
I see no reason why Microsoft should not protect its intellectual property
and if they choose to do this my means of WGA then that is their decision
to make. If it causes some customers to move to using other products then
they should do so and Microsoft's loss.
As I have already posted it would appear that any post containing the
string "aka @ [notme] masked and anonymous.org" (spaces added
intentionally) is being removed from the server regardless of who makes
that post or the content of the post. I haven't a clue as to what you
might have done that might have initially triggered such action but that
it is happening is, as I have already stated, quite disgraceful. I doubt
that the trigger was the post you quoted but then again since I'm not the
one doing the filtering so I wouldn't know.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Mike M
>> was an update for one the week before.
>
> Yes, or so I heard on xp general.
So you believe everything you read there? If so then you do surprise me.
That doesn't mean there won't be a further update to WGA next Tuesday
(patch Tuesday) and why this should worry you escapes me especially if
this update addresses some of the problems that are being reported or do I
take it to mean that you prefer to use what might appear to be a broken
product for some?
> WGA is not in Microsoft's best interests, nor is WPA for that matter.
We clearly differ. I have no problem with WPA and it is clearly in
Microsoft's interests to take what steps it can to protect its
intellectual property and also for those that use their products. What
problem exactly do you have in being asked to activate a system? If it's
genuine surely none? By WPA and WGA protecting your interests I mean
ensuring that the system and software you have is genuine and legal and
that the unique PIDs issued/licensed to you for your use are not being
used by others.
It appears you have a problem in grasping all this, too much sun and
sangria perhaps? <g> If so care to share?
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
A
>>> Do you mean to replace that released last Tuesday which in itself
>>> was an update for one the week before.
>>
>> Yes, or so I heard on xp general.
>
> So you believe everything you read there?
Of course not, but it came from several MVPs so it is reasonable to
assume that it's true.
> If so then you do surprise
> me. That doesn't mean there won't be a further update to WGA next
> Tuesday (patch Tuesday) and why this should worry you escapes me
> especially if this update addresses some of the problems that are being
> reported or do I take it to mean that you prefer to use what might
> appear to be a broken product for some?
I prefer not to have to prove to MS that I am not a thief over and over
again with the possibility that the WGA program will create problems
that I will have to deal with instead of using my computer for the
reasons I bought it. I also don't appreciate a program installed on my
computer that is rated "critical" when it is only "critical" for MS and
I cannot remove the program from my computer without A LOT of hassle and
stress.
>
>> WGA is not in Microsoft's best interests, nor is WPA for that matter.
>
> We clearly differ. I have no problem with WPA and it is clearly in
> Microsoft's interests to take what steps it can to protect its
> intellectual property and also for those that use their products.
But it doesn't work. Pirated XPs are all over the place. Playing cat and
mouse with crackers is exactly what the crackers want, a challenge.
What
> problem exactly do you have in being asked to activate a system?
Four times? It's a hassle and stressful.
> If
> it's genuine surely none?
Four times for changing a NIC driver? It's a hassle and stressful. I
also like to upgrade my computer a lot, which means more activation
which doesn't protect me one iota and is only a hassle and stressful.
By WPA and WGA protecting your interests I
> mean ensuring that the system and software you have is genuine and legal
> and that the unique PIDs issued/licensed to you for your use are not
> being used by others.
I know mine is legit because I know where I buy my XPs. I don't buy XPs
that have PIDs that customers can copy off the sides of desktops or the
bottoms of laptops. I use generic OEM XPs.
> It appears you have a problem in grasping all this, too much sun and
> sangria perhaps? <g> If so care to share?
Oh, I understand you. I just disagree and I stopped drinking over five
years ago; I had already had my share for this lifetime and the old
liver has told me, in no uncertain terms, no more! :-)
A
Mike M
> assume that it's true.
You amaze me. :-) Whilst I've received an MVP award on a number of
occasions I learned very early on that the title MVP doesn't necessarily
mean one knows or understands what is happening at Microsoft especially
when it comes to what may or may not happen at some future time. Often we
are the very last to know what is happening and find out through reading
the newsgroups and the technical web in the same way as other users. On
this occasion they may well be correct and that yet another WGA update is
due for release next week (it is patch Tuesday) but I don't feel that
simply because someone with an MVP award says something is going to happen
necessarily means that it will.
> Four times for changing a NIC driver? It's a hassle and stressful.
It seems to me that your and my definition of stress differ considerably.
However changing just a NIC driver shouldn't have triggered re-activation
unless other components originally present when activated have also since
been removed. A NIC represents two votes out of eleven or twelve in total
with re-activation only designed to kick in when several have changed.
Changing a NIC driver though should not have lost any votes, I do this
regularly on my boxes, what would have lost the votes is either removing
the NIC or disabling it in Dev.Man.
Talking of which I see that on this box using Licenturion's XPInfo I've
apparently "lost" my RAM size, IDE controller and scsi host votes despite
the only hardware changes since it was activated being that I increased
RAM from 1GB to 2GB which I guess just goes in part to support your view.
> I know mine is legit because I know where I buy my XPs.
But does Microsoft? Not without WGA or similar, and I feel it not
unreasonable to restrict access to the WU/MU sites and the Download Centre
to those who are able to demonstrate that they have a legitimate copy of
the product concerned.
> the old liver has told me, in no uncertain terms, no more! :-)
Oh dear! In truth I don't drink that much but nevertheless I suspect my
liver would tell me the same if I were to start drinking too much.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Joan Archer
I've just come from XP General and the last two posts of Alias are no
longer on the server but your replies are, which I usually just put down
to the servers being out of synch when I go to get posts <g>
Joan
A
>> Of course not, but it came from several MVPs so it is reasonable to
>> assume that it's true.
>
> You amaze me. :-) Whilst I've received an MVP award on a number of
> occasions I learned very early on that the title MVP doesn't necessarily
> mean one knows or understands what is happening at Microsoft especially
> when it comes to what may or may not happen at some future time. Often
> we are the very last to know what is happening and find out through
> reading the newsgroups and the technical web in the same way as other
> users. On this occasion they may well be correct and that yet another
> WGA update is due for release next week (it is patch Tuesday) but I
> don't feel that simply because someone with an MVP award says something
> is going to happen necessarily means that it will.
The MVPs in question are reliable. I wasn't saying it was Carey :)
>
>> Four times for changing a NIC driver? It's a hassle and stressful.
>
> It seems to me that your and my definition of stress differ
> considerably. However changing just a NIC driver shouldn't have
> triggered re-activation unless other components originally present when
> activated have also since been removed. A NIC represents two votes out
> of eleven or twelve in total with re-activation only designed to kick in
> when several have changed. Changing a NIC driver though should not have
> lost any votes, I do this regularly on my boxes, what would have lost
> the votes is either removing the NIC or disabling it in Dev.Man.
Sorry, I disabled it, rebooted to enable it. A NIC gets three votes out
of ten is my understanding.
> Talking of which I see that on this box using Licenturion's XPInfo I've
> apparently "lost" my RAM size, IDE controller and scsi host votes
> despite the only hardware changes since it was activated being that I
> increased RAM from 1GB to 2GB which I guess just goes in part to support
> your view.
>
>> I know mine is legit because I know where I buy my XPs.
>
> But does Microsoft?
If they want to know, they can come look at my receipt. All they have to
do is make an appointment. I see no reason why I should be obligated to
prove I am not a thief.
> Not without WGA or similar, and I feel it not
> unreasonable to restrict access to the WU/MU sites and the Download
> Centre to those who are able to demonstrate that they have a legitimate
> copy of the product concerned.
Fact is that MS made billions with their preXP OSs. Fact is that
millions of XP pirated versions are being used today. WGA and WPA only
inconvenience paying customers while the crackers just laugh.
>> the old liver has told me, in no uncertain terms, no more! :-)
>
> Oh dear! In truth I don't drink that much but nevertheless I suspect my
> liver would tell me the same if I were to start drinking too much.
I prefer chocolate nowadays ;-)
A
Mike M
> out of ten is my understanding.
Total votes are twelve with the NIC if present counting for 3. Where a
system has no NIC total votes are I believe 10 with the "no NIC" counting
for some reason as one rather than three. Reactivation is only triggered
if system changes result in only six or less of the original votes being
still present.
> If they want to know, they can come look at my receipt. All they have
> to do is make an appointment. I see no reason why I should be
> obligated to prove I am not a thief.
I'm sure that's not a problem provided you accept that you won't be
entitled to use their web sites until you do so. A receipt is no
guarantee of a genuine copy, there is more than one rogue system builder
that has installed XP on systems they've sold using an illegally obtained
volume licence or keygen. Much simpler in my mind to use WGA.
> Fact is that MS made billions with their preXP OSs.
And the relevance of this is precisely what? It has no bearing to the
subject.
> Fact is that
> millions of XP pirated versions are being used today. WGA and WPA only
> inconvenience paying customers while the crackers just laugh.
That's simply cr$p but then for some peculiar reason known only to
yourself you've got an axe to grind and let that apparently obscure your
judgement and reasoning. I've got four XP systems here, all multi-boot, I
also have two laptops (both used by my daughters) and maintain a large
number of other systems running XP and not one has ever had the slightest
problem with either WPA or WGA. What you appear to have difficulty in
understanding is that WPA has in the past, now and in the future, stopped
a significant number of users from using stolen or otherwise illegal
copies of XP and MS Office. No one, least of all Microsoft, has ever
claimed that WPA will stop those determined to use cracks or keygens. If
you think that then you are on your own there.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Shane
I asked my uncle how cricket on the radio was acceptable - I mean, I can
just about accept football on the radio, largely because the commentator's
excitement, and that of the crowd, can trigger one's own, but how can that
happen with cricket? So he cites commentators talking about the cake some
listener sent in! I daresay you know who I mean, and isn't he dead now?
Anyway, how're you keeping (howzat!)? Well, I trust!
Shane
Will Denny wrote:
> Hi Shane
>
> Yes we got David 'bye' the short and curlies last time :-)) Yup all
> the cricket is on Sky - with highlights on C5.
>
>
Noel Paton
<gd&r - fast!>
--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2006, Windows)
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.crashfixpc.com/millsrpch.htm
Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
"Shane" <shaneb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ugH8RMRc...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
A
>> A NIC gets three votes
>> out of ten is my understanding.
>
> Total votes are twelve with the NIC if present counting for 3. Where a
> system has no NIC total votes are I believe 10 with the "no NIC"
> counting for some reason as one rather than three. Reactivation is only
> triggered if system changes result in only six or less of the original
> votes being still present.
Whatever. For those of us who upgrade hardware, it's a PITA.
>
>> If they want to know, they can come look at my receipt. All they have
>> to do is make an appointment. I see no reason why I should be
>> obligated to prove I am not a thief.
>
> I'm sure that's not a problem provided you accept that you won't be
> entitled to use their web sites until you do so.
I believe by having bought XP, I have a RIGHT to updates, don't I?
> A receipt is no
> guarantee of a genuine copy, there is more than one rogue system builder
> that has installed XP on systems they've sold using an illegally
> obtained volume licence or keygen.
I bought mine from a retailer that buys them from MS. MS should know
which retailers they sell to, don't they?
> Much simpler in my mind to use WGA.
Please read the XP general group and check how many legitimate owners of
XP are having problems.
>
>> Fact is that MS made billions with their preXP OSs.
>
> And the relevance of this is precisely what? It has no bearing to the
> subject.
The relevance is that with XP they have and will make billions but not
due to the WPA or WGA. IOW, those two anti piracy programs will not
affect the bottom line of MS except for people like me who are
considering Linux before Vista.
>
>> Fact is that
>> millions of XP pirated versions are being used today. WGA and WPA only
>> inconvenience paying customers while the crackers just laugh.
>
> That's simply cr$p but then for some peculiar reason known only to
> yourself you've got an axe to grind and let that apparently obscure your
> judgement and reasoning.
What is not true about the above statement? Calling it "crap" and going
after my persona doesn't tell me much.
> I've got four XP systems here, all multi-boot,
> I also have two laptops (both used by my daughters) and maintain a large
> number of other systems running XP and not one has ever had the
> slightest problem with either WPA or WGA. What you appear to have
> difficulty in understanding is that WPA has in the past, now and in the
> future, stopped a significant number of users from using stolen or
> otherwise illegal copies of XP and MS Office. No one, least of all
> Microsoft, has ever claimed that WPA will stop those determined to use
> cracks or keygens. If you think that then you are on your own there.
I was at a house the other day and suggested that they upgrade to XP.
The wife got on the phone, called her local cracker and had a cracked
version delivered to her in an hour. These people are not computer
techs. She is a housewife and he is a stock broker. Go on the Spanish
newsgroups and ask how many have a legit version of XP. You will be
laughed off the group.
A
Will Denny
you Shane.
Will
--
Will Denny
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
Please reply to the News Groups
"Shane" <shaneb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ugH8RMRc...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Will Denny
been deleted.
--
Will Denny
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
Please reply to the News Groups
"Joan Archer" <arche...@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:%237mu0PQ...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Mike M
That's hardly true and for those that do feel the need to regularly remove
hardware it is hardly an inconvenience to reactivate following those
changes although for those having to do so by phone I admit it is a pain
in the butt. I can think of few reasons to need to remove an old NIC even
if adding a new one although lack of slots could be one. For example I
have an older system here where I added a gigabit NIC but left the 100Mbps
NIC in situ for this very reason, however like yourself I have had to
reactivate on I think one occasion as a result of inadvertently disabling
the NIC on a machine.
> I believe by having bought XP, I have a RIGHT to updates, don't I?
No, not necessarily. Note you didn't buy XP, but rather bought as licence
to install and use XP. I can think of many examples where updates are not
free but rather require additional payment. In this case all Microsoft
are asking is that you validate your entitlement to obtain a free update.
Remember that security patches continue to be delivered free via AU
regardless of whether the user has validated their system via WGA or not.
> I bought mine from a retailer that buys them from MS. MS should know
> which retailers they sell to, don't they?
Whilst I am no defender of Microsoft surely no-one with a legitimate copy
can object to their providing evidence that they have a legal copy before
accessing a Microsoft web site and obtaining free enhancements to their
system? Without checking your system Microsoft wouldn't have a clue as to
where you bought your licence to use their operating system. Again
downloading critical security updates via AU does not require the user to
use WGA. However, like yourself I do (and did at the time elsewhere)
question the recent update to WGA as being called "critical".
> What is not true about the above statement? Calling it "crap" and
> going after my persona doesn't tell me much.
You're the one grinding the axe. It might be your continued harping on
about this that led to your being censored rather than the actual content
of your posts. Saying the same thing over and over does become rather
boring. :-) As for going after your person I have done nothing of the
sort.
> I was at a house the other day and suggested that they upgrade to XP.
> The wife got on the phone, called her local cracker and had a cracked
> version delivered to her in an hour.
Not everyone moves in the circles that you do. :-) It may come as a
surprise but most users are quite honest. I'm making no comment about
either yourself or even myself and at no time have I intentionally or
unintentionally tried to suggest that you are anything other than honest
nor that your MS systems and applications have been anything but honestly
obtained.
> Go on the Spanish
> newsgroups and ask how many have a legit version of XP.
This quite possibly tells me more about the Spanish than anything else.
Those using newsgroups rather than web fora and the like tend to be more
geeky than those who do not.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Mike M
Please e-mail me at mi...@mvps.org.
--
Mike Maltby
mike....@gmail.com
Larry Samuels
did. <G>
You do need to be aware that installation of such copies could leave you
open to possible criminal prosecution even if you did not provide the copy.
--
Larry Samuels Associate Expert
MS-MVP (2001-2005)
Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
Expert Zone- www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
"A" <n...@aol.net> wrote in message
news:%23bkuIgR...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
A
> I sincerely hope you didn't install it for her. I DON'T want to know if you
> did. <G>
No, I left. The cracker installed it for them.
> You do need to be aware that installation of such copies could leave you
> open to possible criminal prosecution even if you did not provide the copy.
I know.
A
A
> I sincerely hope you didn't install it for her. I DON'T want to know if you
> did. <G>
>
> You do need to be aware that installation of such copies could leave you
> open to possible criminal prosecution even if you did not provide the copy.
>
>
Don't get me wrong. I am against piracy. I told the couple they should
buy a copy but they wouldn't. I only own legit software or licenses.
A
Joan Archer
Joan
Joan Archer
mean cricket.
Joan
Joan Archer
something else <g> (Note to self - phone Will soon)
Today it was the Sky man to repair our installation and next week should
be the man to install a new bathroom for us complete with electric shower
<g>
Joan
Larry Samuels
I just wanted to make you aware of the implications for techs who do install
the copies. Unfortunately I have to turn away tons of business because I
will not install or repair illegal software.
--
Larry Samuels Associate Expert
MS-MVP (2001-2005)
Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
Expert Zone- www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
"A" <n...@aol.net> wrote in message
news:ejpcWKSc...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Heather
that find cricket to be the ultimate in boring!!
Chuckling to myself in Canader.
Figgs
"Joan Archer" <arche...@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:%23s6rxRS...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)
>Mike M wrote:
>Andrew Martin wrote:
>We install WGA on dozens of computers every week but I have a
>customer here who's pc will not install WGA without freezing the entire pc.
>Everything has been perfectly working on this pc until automatic
>updates tried to install the latest WGA but now it will not install no
>matter how (automatic updates / activex control, etc). The whole system
>hangs, we can't even hit cntl-alt-del or click anything with the mouse.
> The Windows is definately legit, purchased from an MS authorized
>vendor by us, not that this would make a difference anyway. Even if it
>was not legit, it should just pop up the notification box and not cause
>the whole system to hang. We just can't get it to do anything. I've
>tried turning off all startup programs and system services, even tried
>in safe mode with networking. Nothing works.
> I tried the WGA diagnostic tool...it locks up too.
Questions about this locked-up state:
- is HD LED on or active?
- does mouse pointer move?
- does unplugging the network clear the lockup?
- any random graphics or broken UI elements? (SVGA)
How hard does it lock up, i.e. which works/don't work:
- Alt+Tab, Ctl+Esc
- Ctl+Alt+Del, Task Manager
- pressing NumLock; does keyboard LED toggle state?
- pressing ATX off button once; does it shutdown?
- hardware Reset button
- holding down ATX off button for > 10 seconds
- doing nil but waiting for a long time (e.g. 1 hour; timeout)
> If anyone has an idea on this one let me know...I'm frustrated beyond
>words.
One would need to know more about what WGA is doing, but I'd start
with "the prelim" to get that out of the way...
- check RAM (MemTest86)
- check physical HD (e.g. HD Tune from www.hdtune.com)
- exclude malware (difficult, I know...)
...though having said that, the problem seems not only focal
(affecting WGA, nil else) but not limited to a particular file or part
of the hard drive. Unlike RAM or other hardware errors, hard drive
bad sectors can map to particular files and appear to be unifocal, but
as a separate WPA tool fails the same way, it's prolly not that.
Moving in to more specific things, I'd look for interactions (possibly
with safety/security sware that intervenes when scripts run etc.) and
version soup, e.g. an old-version .DLL involved in scripting etc.
I'd also compare mileage with:
- Safe Mode, if possible (suppresses drivers and most startup)
- MSConfig startup suppression
- different user account (avoids per-user startup and integrations)
- parallel OS installation on same hardware (use different HD)
- with all peripherals disconnected
Look for free Nirsoft utilities that can help you manage integration
points that are not UI'd by MSConfig or similar - for example, Shell
Extension Viewer lets you suppress some CLSID shell integrations.
What's nice is that typically these tools will let you reversably
disable such things, making it easy to Undo.
Final random thoughts:
- SR contents
- polluted .DLL or installation source caches
- some sort of tripwire when querying hardware
The last is relevant if WGA is sniffing for hardware comonent
identities a la Product Activation.
>What's even more pathetic is that WGA ONLY benefits MS and does not
>benefit the end user in any way.
Sure - that's why vandors walk such a thin line. If you're going to
inflict mandatory sware with NO user benefit, then it had better work
perfectly and cause no problems outside the intended payload contexts.
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
I'm baaaack!
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
Larry Samuels
Drop by DTS soon--we have been worried about your absence
--
Larry Samuels Associate Expert
MS-MVP (2001-2005)
Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
Expert Zone- www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquir...@nospam.mvps.org> wrote in
message news:3nop525uh5bftkunr...@4ax.com...
Will Denny
Will
Will Denny
Will
"Larry Samuels" <la...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:u1$S%23zTcG...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Will Denny
Will
"Joan Archer" <arche...@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:%23s6rxRS...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Will Denny
Will
--
"Heather" <fi...@invalid.nospam> wrote in message
news:eUF47dTc...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Will Denny
Will
"Joan Archer" <arche...@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:eclihSSc...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Will Denny
Will
"Joan Archer" <arche...@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:e%23us6XSc...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Alias
>>> Do you mean to replace that released last Tuesday which in itself
>>> was an update for one the week before.
>>
>> Yes, or so I heard on xp general.
>
> So you believe everything you read there? If so then you do surprise
> me. That doesn't mean there won't be a further update to WGA next
> Tuesday (patch Tuesday) and why this should worry you escapes me
> especially if this update addresses some of the problems that are being
> reported or do I take it to mean that you prefer to use what might
> appear to be a broken product for some?
Read this:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=187200796
Alias
>
>> WGA is not in Microsoft's best interests, nor is WPA for that matter.
>
> We clearly differ. I have no problem with WPA and it is clearly in
> Microsoft's interests to take what steps it can to protect its
> intellectual property and also for those that use their products. What
> problem exactly do you have in being asked to activate a system? If
> it's genuine surely none? By WPA and WGA protecting your interests I
> mean ensuring that the system and software you have is genuine and legal
> and that the unique PIDs issued/licensed to you for your use are not
> being used by others.
>
> It appears you have a problem in grasping all this, too much sun and
> sangria perhaps? <g> If so care to share?
Shane
>> which retailers they sell to, don't they?
As Alias says, Mike. I bought mine from Curry's when it still had London's
biggest electrical store at Brent Cross. Having to prove that I'm not a
thief once is bad enough, and actually, it is enough. I'll give them once.
Twice is too often. *Every* bloody time is a bloody liberty!
>
> Whilst I am no defender of Microsoft surely no-one with a legitimate
> copy can object to their providing evidence that they have a legal
> copy before accessing a Microsoft web site
I think that's a position to avoid taking at any cost. It's the same as the
innocent having nothing to fear from the Law, which, frankly, an infant
ought to be able to discredit and if it can't it reflects badly on our
education system as well as the integrity of our leaders. Quite apart from
the question of whether a big American multinational, with it's US version
of unrestricted free enterprise, should be allowed to do whatever the hell
it wants, when it has the wealth and influence, ie Power, of a
small-but-growing nation, a monopoly-in-all-but-name of the technology that
will make this world look like Philip K. Dick wrote it, what they do is a
social issue, not a purely commercial one. And what they're doing now, in
that context, is bullying.
> and obtaining free
> enhancements to their system?
Enhancements, Mike? All I've seen so far is so 2nd-rate it looks like it's
put up merely as a download to hang WGA on. Jeez, talk about the Emperor's
New Clothes! Mike, I imagine you too turn the sound down when today's
puerile adverts begin! What's next, we can't watch the shows unless we keep
the sound turned up? I don't want to be talked to like a dishonest child
*ever*. Do you think if you go into Sainsbury's and get abused by the staff,
it's their shop so tough? You always struck me as someone prepared to stand
up for his honour.
>
> Not everyone moves in the circles that you do. :-) It may come as a
> surprise but most users are quite honest. I'm making no comment about
> either yourself or even myself and at no time have I intentionally or
> unintentionally tried to suggest that you are anything other than
> honest nor that your MS systems and applications have been anything
> but honestly obtained.
>
You're not suggesting it, Mike, Microsoft are. And Microsoft's hypocitical
anti-piracy stance is the pot calling the kettle 'black'. The most powerful
company in the world got that way by practices Gtes, Bllmer et al should be
strung up for. I'm not dishonest, they are. Them suggesting *I* am, is so
infuriating I wish they were at Reading!
>> Go on the Spanish
>> newsgroups and ask how many have a legit version of XP.
>
> This quite possibly tells me more about the Spanish than anything
> else. Those using newsgroups rather than web fora and the like tend
> to be more geeky than those who do not.
My mum had her purse snatched in Barcelona a couple of days ago. She had to
queue to report it.
Shane
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)
>Yeah - as Larry says. Get back to DTS Chris.
Will do!
>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Alias
>
> My mum had her purse snatched in Barcelona a couple of days ago. She had to
> queue to report it.
>
>
>
> Shane
Barcelona is not in Spain. It's in Cataluña. No pick pocketing in
London? Most big cities have these kinds of problems.
Alias
Shane
Not to the extent I'm hearing!
Shane
Alias
I've lived in the third largest city in Spain since 96 and I have never
had any problems. I also lived in Chicago, D.C. and LA and never had any
problems. This is not to say it doesn't happen, only that you are
exaggerating a bit. I also doubt that many pick pockets use computers so
I don't see the connection.
Alias
Shane
Is that what you mean?
Shane
Jan Il
> On Sat, 6 May 2006 23:44:15 +0100, "Will Denny" <will...@mvps.org>
>
>>Yeah - as Larry says. Get back to DTS Chris.
>
> Will do!
You are missed there! :-)
Jan :)
Shane
Shane
> This is getting to be like old folk^h^h^h^h home week!
> <gd&r - fast!>
>
>
> Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to
> NG's "Shane" <shaneb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ugH8RMRc...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Cheers Will.
>>
>> I asked my uncle how cricket on the radio was acceptable - I mean, I
>> can just about accept football on the radio, largely because the
>> commentator's excitement, and that of the crowd, can trigger one's
>> own, but how can that happen with cricket? So he cites commentators
>> talking about the cake some listener sent in! I daresay you know who
>> I mean, and isn't he dead now? Anyway, how're you keeping (howzat!)?
>> Well, I trust!
>>
>> Shane
>>
>>
>> Will Denny wrote:
>>> Hi Shane
>>>
>>> Yes we got David 'bye' the short and curlies last time :-)) Yup all
>>> the cricket is on Sky - with highlights on C5.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Shane" <shaneb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Oyz0peOc...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Hi Will,
>>>>
>>>> So, correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Internationals and the Ashes are on Sky, with highlight shows on
>>>> Channel 5, and the rest is on Radio 5.
>>>>
>>>> My uncle wants to know. I thought of you, when he asked! Personally
>>>> my only interest in cricket is whether 'we' beat 'David'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shane
Shane
games I think Chelsea must have been running like one!
Shane
Will Denny wrote:
> Football is 4 girlies - cricket is a mans game!!!!! I'm very well,
> thank you Shane.
>
> Will
>
>
Shane
>> never had any problems. I also lived in Chicago, D.C. and LA and
>> never had any problems. This is not to say it doesn't happen, only
>> that you are exaggerating a bit. I also doubt that many pick pockets
>> use computers so I don't see the connection.
>>
> No, you mean my mother is exagerrating a bit.
>
> Is that what you mean?
>
And of course, what you're saying is simply that she's exaggerating when she
says she had to queue, in Barcelona, to report her purse having been
snatched.
Interestingly, she said basically it's all British victims.
Yeah, I went to Barca back when Franco was still there. I seem to recall
they had a big pro-fascist rally recently, didn't they? Of course, it was
fascist until so recently that of course it'll still be full of the
supporters of fascism.
You know, we used to have an awful racist problem at football grounds here.
But it is mostly gone, now. Probably at least in part because it costs so
much to get in these days. Still, they have made progress. I think this
nation has made progress. It's in the Spanish football grounds it's still an
awful problem today.
And what it has to do with computing is that it all has to do with morality.
I love Spain, I love Spanish women and I love the language. For a little
while I loved that it promised a more honest society than ours, but that
part apparently went by the board. Just say Pinochet and Iraq.
Hard to see what you might think is exaggerated, anyway.
But not at all hard to see what you're really saying.
Shane
webster72n
Seems to me they can afford to, Shane <g>.
Harry.
"Shane" <shaneb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Od192sfc...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
webster72n
See what WinME can do to you, Shane?
I hope this is all done with friendly under tones.
Harry.
"Shane" <shaneb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23JQejqf...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Shane
In fact, if rumours turn out to be true I expect I'll give up on them next
season. That is, if the entire fan base gave up on them, they could still
afford to do that, too! Soon - well it'll already be happening - every fair
weather supported in the UK will be cheering them on!
Shane
Shane
the Colonel, I don't know. Seems to me I e-mailed him a Win2K file a couple
of years ago and never got a word of acknowledgement for it...But maybe I
exaggerate! :-)
Shane
webster72n
.............................I wanted to say something, but then chose not
to, Shane, sorry about that.
As long as you don't loose your good humor and keep your beard. Would hate
to have to imagine you without it.
Cheers from 'the other side of the pond'.
Harry.
"Shane" <shaneb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eG3eD9gc...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Shane
Shane
webster72n
What about the *humor*, Shane?
Don't let that slip away, too.
Harry.
"Shane" <shaneb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23YGRUbh...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Alias
>>> I've lived in the third largest city in Spain since 96 and I have
>>> never had any problems. I also lived in Chicago, D.C. and LA and
>>> never had any problems. This is not to say it doesn't happen, only
>>> that you are exaggerating a bit. I also doubt that many pick pockets
>>> use computers so I don't see the connection.
>>>
>> No, you mean my mother is exagerrating a bit.
>>
>> Is that what you mean?
>>
>
> And of course, what you're saying is simply that she's exaggerating when she
> says she had to queue, in Barcelona, to report her purse having been
> snatched.
No, I am not surprised she had to queue up, especially if she was in a
tourist area.
> Interestingly, she said basically it's all British victims.
Heh. That is curious. Maybe I've never have a problem because I'm not
British ;-)
> Yeah, I went to Barca back when Franco was still there. I seem to recall
> they had a big pro-fascist rally recently, didn't they? Of course, it was
> fascist until so recently that of course it'll still be full of the
> supporters of fascism.
Most of the supporters of Franco are dead. I didn't arrive to Spain
until 11 years after his death.
> You know, we used to have an awful racist problem at football grounds here.
> But it is mostly gone, now. Probably at least in part because it costs so
> much to get in these days. Still, they have made progress. I think this
> nation has made progress. It's in the Spanish football grounds it's still an
> awful problem today.
I don't follow "football", sorry. I don't go to the bull fights either.
> And what it has to do with computing is that it all has to do with morality.
> I love Spain, I love Spanish women and I love the language. For a little
> while I loved that it promised a more honest society than ours, but that
> part apparently went by the board. Just say Pinochet and Iraq.
Please don't get me started on Iraq.
> Hard to see what you might think is exaggerated, anyway.
My point is that street crime is common to all big cities.
> But not at all hard to see what you're really saying.
>
> Shane
Nowadays, most of the street crime here is in the hands of Eastern
Europeans and South Americans. The Romanians enter your home, spray you
with a drug to keep you asleep and calmly rob you blind and then fix
themselves something to go with your wine that they just stole.
What's the world coming to?
Alias
Shane
> Shane wrote:
>>>> I've lived in the third largest city in Spain since 96 and I have
>>>> never had any problems. I also lived in Chicago, D.C. and LA and
>>>> never had any problems. This is not to say it doesn't happen, only
>>>> that you are exaggerating a bit. I also doubt that many pick
>>>> pockets use computers so I don't see the connection.
>>>>
>>> No, you mean my mother is exagerrating a bit.
>>>
>>> Is that what you mean?
>>>
>>
>> And of course, what you're saying is simply that she's exaggerating
>> when she says she had to queue, in Barcelona, to report her purse
>> having been snatched.
>
> No, I am not surprised she had to queue up, especially if she was in a
> tourist area.
>
>> Interestingly, she said basically it's all British victims.
>
> Heh. That is curious. Maybe I've never have a problem because I'm not
> British ;-)
>
>> Yeah, I went to Barca back when Franco was still there. I seem to
>> recall they had a big pro-fascist rally recently, didn't they? Of
>> course, it was fascist until so recently that of course it'll still
>> be full of the supporters of fascism.
>
> Most of the supporters of Franco are dead. I didn't arrive to Spain
> until 11 years after his death.
>
I'm sure there are some new ones! There's a quite well-respected Italian
footballer who played here for a few years who turns out to be a fascist -
back in Italy gives fascist salutes, is pro-Mussolini. Disturbingly I don't
think his popularity has suffered significantly since revealing himself!
>> You know, we used to have an awful racist problem at football
>> grounds here. But it is mostly gone, now. Probably at least in part
>> because it costs so much to get in these days. Still, they have made
>> progress. I think this nation has made progress. It's in the Spanish
>> football grounds it's still an awful problem today.
>
> I don't follow "football", sorry. I don't go to the bull fights
> either.
No, nor I. The bull fights, that is. One of the unsettling undercurrents of
times spent in Catalan France, also! Along with knowing that much of the
entire area was pro-Franco during the civil war! At least the Maquis
recovered some of it's honour during the Nazi occupation.
>> And what it has to do with computing is that it all has to do with
>> morality. I love Spain, I love Spanish women and I love the
>> language. For a little while I loved that it promised a more honest
>> society than ours, but that part apparently went by the board. Just
>> say Pinochet and Iraq.
>
> Please don't get me started on Iraq.
>
Hard to know where to go to escape it!
>> Hard to see what you might think is exaggerated, anyway.
>
> My point is that street crime is common to all big cities.
>
Yes. Or anyway, most. I suppose it happens in London, but ours is more a
capital of embezzlement, that sort of thing. And yes, she mentioned a
certain Eastern European ethnic group.
Shane