The x64 system time glitch

[Jean]

Hello there,

For over a year I'm a proud x64 pc owner. Next to a little playing with the
cpp version of win x64 I've been running Win32 all that time.
About a month ago the final version of win x64 pro arrived and in all the
excitement I fooled myself in to believing this was the time for the big
switch...
Bye bye win32 here comes Win x64.
Hmm, the switch isn't going all that smooth.
Next to some incompatibility problems (cheap non-standard-webcam, etc.) the
weirdest glitch is bugging my computer and torturing me meanwhile.

How should I explain this. Well, in some mysterious way since I’m running
x64 every minute on my computer appears to last about 63 seconds. Now I know
computer-clocks aren’t known for their accuracy but 3 sec every minute,
that’s a bit too much in my opinion. (that’s one hour 20 hours) Fact of the
matter is that about anything that is time dependent, like audio playback, is
affected. (this can be quite annoying | although Directx (videofilters, etc.)
seems somewhat immune)
Studying the problem I’ve learned that the seconds aren’t equally longer,
but from time to time the clock seems to stall a bit, witch also translates
into noticeable glitch in my music playback. (the audio playing at that time
indeed is stalled as well, when I listen to internet radio my music player
even stops after a while, not because the loss of connection, but because
it’s buffer is full, does take about 2 hours to fill)

Now I wonder, what is causing this glitch, and how do I solve it???
It’s driving me mad!

Things I should mention:
- If isn’t strange enough, here some more. When my computer is up for a
while, (no rebooting, but use of standby and hibernation), the glitches seem
to occur less often and it takes a longer time to fill up the buffer when
listening to internet radio (in other words, keeps playing a while longer)
- When I was using win32 I didn’t have these problems, but I do remember I
couldn’t use the standby-function. (funny thing is, when the computer got out
standby, I had the opposite problem, all audio (inc windows sounds) was
played back al little faster then it should, but in a non glitchy way, as a
result listing to internet radio was interrupted for rebuffering from time to
time)

To demonstrate my problem I made al little movie:
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb2271/microsoft/
It shows:
- system date and time
- a program that syncs my clock with a server every 5 minutes
- and the AMD power app, showing processor use and Powernow mode.

Few remarks:
- In the back radio is playing, but I must admit that due to the fact that
the encoding happened on the same system a lot more glitches are present in
the movie-audio
- The first half of the movie the computer is running with normal power
management functions and the glitches seem to happen every time the
processor switches back to power save mode, but as you will see in the second
part of the movie, glitches still are present even when it doesn’t come to a
switchback
- The movie is about 10 minutes so at the beginning in the middle and in the
end you clearly see how my computer loses track of time.

I do hope someone knows how to solve this.

[Tony Sperling]

Oh, I don't know - used to be that overclocking could drive your clock
'nuts'. Could even result from tweaking at the factory that you know nothing
about. Try going into BIOS setup and 'underclock' it by, say, twenty
percent - see what happens?

I suspect that some high performance HD systems may not perform very well
with 'Windows System Cache' enabled. Tried asking about it here, but no
respons.

Happy tweaking!

Tony. . .

"Jean" <Je...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DD626DCB-6C57-476E...@microsoft.com...

[Jean]

It's a Targa Visionary 811 Notebook with an Athlon64 2800+ Mobile processor....
Doesn't leave any room for clockmodifications....

[Jean]

Great news,
I just ran a Bios update and problem just got whorse, now I'm running late
31 sec every 5 minutes...

AAARRRRGGGG!!!!!

[Tony Sperling]

Alright - there's maybe a lead. I would contact those BIOS support people,
and see what they have to say.

Tony. . .

"Jean" <Je...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:A6D4DBEF-A1C0-47BC...@microsoft.com...

[Darrell Gorter[MSFT]]

Hello Jean,
Try using /usepmtimer in the boot.ini.
Tell us if this makes any difference.

Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
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[Jean]

I've contacted the boispeople, and as expected they say they can't give
support since they sold me the system with a 32bit OS.

/usepmtimer

I'll try it, can you tell me what it actually does?

[Jean]

Sorry, didn't do anything.
Clock still running 31 secs slow every 5 mins.
And actually my music sounds glichty'er then ever.
pfff!

[Jud Hendrix]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:18:28 +0200, Jean <het...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I'll try it, can you tell me what it actually does?

http://blogs.msdn.com/tparks/archive/2005/05/14/417516.aspx

sort off :)

jud

[Jean]

Nope, even with the options suggested there.
But I see this option is for solving a directX timing problem.
Fact is my direct isn't affected, at least, I don't think it is.
The problem runs deeper, it's the entire computer that has problems
keeping track of time.

[Tripp Parks [MSFT]]

Have you installed any new drivers lately?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jean
Posted At: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:41 AM
Posted To: microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general
Conversation: The x64 system time glitch
Subject: Re: The x64 system time glitch

[Jean]

Prettymuch al drivers are the standard windows drivers or drivers
obtained threw windows-update(via fast ethernet).
Non standard drivers are the ATi Radeon driver and de Realtec soundman
drivers.
Recently I’ve installed the new AMD processor driver, but the problem
was the same before and after….

I must admit that I’ve told the ATi driver that I’m using a Radeon X700
mobility while in fact it’s a 9700 mobility, but it works just fine. And
it’s not causing the problem, I’ve completely uninstalled it and the
problems didn’t disappear.
The problems have been there form the beginning, but most drivers have
been installed right after the windows installation, so I can’t tell for
sure it isn’t one of them.

In my opinion the AMD and ATi drivers are excluded, so I gues, if it is
a driver, it must be the Realtec Soundman software, or am I mistaken.

I’ll try uninstalling it, I know my sound works without it as well, so
we’ll see.

[Jean]

I think we found who guilty, down from 31 to 19 sec every 5 mins
Less little less jittery but give it about half a minute and iTunes gets
really destructive (don’t know what else to call it) with the sounds.
Play/pause and it’s gone again.
I’ll try the most recent driver from Realtec.

[John Barnes]

Try Microsoft Update and see if there are drivers there that are WHQL.

"Jean" <het...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OMfq1nh...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

[Jean]

Well, back to the good old 31 seconds with the glitches, but without the
sound destruction.
I guess this leaves 2 possibilities, or the sound driver is causing it
(probably), or it makes audio less sensitive to the real problem (hmm?).
Suggestions? Contact Realtek?

(no whql-driver available)

[John Barnes]

Realtek_AC97_64(WHQL) This is the one I have installed. Guess you mean not
on update.

"Jean" <het...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:eeYbLhmq...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

[Darrell Gorter[MSFT]]

Hello Jud,
This just got published. I would have posted it with the first message,
except it still wasn't available then.
Talks about the switch.
895980 Programs that use the QueryPerformanceCounter function may perform
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=895980

Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------

<From: Jud Hendrix <cser...@maxxlength.com>
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<Subject: Re: The x64 system time glitch

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[Jean]

Hmmm…..
I don’t know for sure, but I think it’s less severe this morning. I’ve
heard les glitches and am losing 15sec per 5mins.
Because of the post about the Microsoft KB article I tried /usepmtimer
again, but with the options in the order like in the KB article witch is
the opposite of the Blog.
But it’s probably more likely that it’s the new driver+/usepmtimer
combination that makes the difference….
(come to think of it, 15secs every 5 min that’s like 3 sec per min, or
the difference I had before the bios update)

Thx for the helpful info.
Any other suggestions…

[Colin Nowell]

Might seem a stupid thing to suggest but what happens when you DON'T use the
AMD PowerNow driver/utility? (that would have been the FIRST thing I would
have disabled and tried...)

Colin

"Jean" <het...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:OHO90Auq...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Hmmm...

> I don't know for sure, but I think it's less severe this morning. I've
> heard les glitches and am losing 15sec per 5mins.
> Because of the post about the Microsoft KB article I tried /usepmtimer
> again, but with the options in the order like in the KB article witch is
> the opposite of the Blog.
> But it's probably more likely that it's the new driver+/usepmtimer

> combination that makes the difference..

> (come to think of it, 15secs every 5 min that's like 3 sec per min, or the
> difference I had before the bios update)
>
> Thx for the helpful info.

> Any other suggestions.

[Jean]

Well, the problem was there from the beginning and the first few weeks I
ran the standard windows driver. So don’t know if this could make the
difference…
Is it safe to uninstall the processor driver?
Let’s hope so, I’ll try

[Jean]

Tried with the "Processor" driver most standard of them all I Guess.
Less glitches in the sound I believe, but still 15 sec late every 5 min
and it does make my computer more noisy. (cooler keeps running and
that’s a problem as well)
Now running the microft K8 driver, once again with glitches.

[Jean]

I there a way to get more control over PowerNow, like with “always on”
de computer doesn’t switch to power save mode, but then the opposite,
not allowing the computer to run in anything but power save mode ?

[Colin Nowell]

Looks like it didn't work but it was worth a try... :-(

To be honest Jean, I don't currently have a system that runs the PowerNow
stuff so I don't have a clue really. I'm just aware of the mechanics and
purpose of it, that's all (and so thought it might have some effect in
regard to your problem...).

Colin

"Jean" <het...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:%23JyvYW8...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

[Jean]

Good Point,
I'll try...
With a 3 second per minute loss any properly working clock will do, no?

[Jean]

Biostime runs perfectly

[Matt]

Hi Jean,

I wonder if this problem has nothing to do with your PC at all. Do you
live in an area that has been having Power shortages this summer? In many
areas the over use of A/C has put a lot of stress on the electric grid. The
computer clock is expecting 60hrz cycle....when the demand is to great on the
power grid that 60hrz cycle is often unobtanable so it may trop to
58hrz...This will make your clock slow.

To keep clocks accurate companys will sometimes try and increase the hrz
cycle at night so clocks run faster to get them back up to the right time but
I believe that practice is more common in Europe where they are used to
dealing with the hrs drop.

Try setting up another digital clock in your house and confirm it's accuracy.

Matt

[Jean]

Well, here in Belgium, pretty much the middle of Europe, we are on
50Hrtz, And indeed, the phenomenon you describe does occur here. For
example my microwave-clock suffers from it. But here we are talking
about a minute or so every en a week, maybe less. (not 3 sec every min)
But I believe that computers can’t experience such problems, because
every computer I know of runs on D/C. Yes you plug it on the A/C net,
but it’s all converted to D/C in the power supply and there never is a
direct connection to the A/C net. And my computer being a notebook only
makes me more convinced of that.
If it was I problem like that, the clock in my bios wouldn’t be able to
keep up as well, and would probably have experienced the problem when
running 32 bit as well.

But thanks anyway, any suggestions are welcome.

[Chuck]

My computer clock is suffering from similar symptoms. I've notice that
when viewing the analog clock, the second hand will stop for seconds at
a time--if I rest the mouse (pointer). If I keep the mouse pointer (the
mouse) in constant motion, the second hand of the clock may pause for a
fraction of a second every three seconds or so, but will not stop for a
long interval.

The tray icon for eTrust Antivirus 7.1 is animated. Resting the mouse
pointer will stop the animation. Keeping the mouse in motion results in
constant animation.

Yes, the stoppage of the second hand and the icon animation coincide
with each other.

Can you duplicate?

I first noticed this problem after switching from a USB mouse to a
Microsoft Cordless Wheel Mouse (PS/2). The symptoms persisted after I
switched back to the USB mouse. Not sure, at all, if there's any
causality there.

Chuck

[cha...@gmail.com]

Well, I isolated my clock/time problem. It is/was the Googletalk
client. If I disable it from autoloading at startup, my clock runs
normally. If I start it, the clock will pause every few seconds as
described above. Anybody else notice this?

Chuck

[Chaz]

Disregard. After a night of S3 standby, the clock was behind. Using
the time command in the DOS box revealed, possibly, a bad CMOS battery.
Still investigating.

Chuck