How to change the sending format?
paul
the message instead of at the top? I am asking this because some people told
me not to TOP Post when replying.
Paul
Bruce Hagen
you), so you have two choices. (Three actually, I top-post).
1): To configure replies to bottom post automatically go to:
Start | Run | Regedit | OK. Find:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER | Identities | Guid | Software | Microsoft | Outlook
Express |5.0. In the right pane, right click on a blank area | New | DWORD
Value. Name it Reply At End and set the value to 1.
2): Get OE-QuoteFix:
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
--
Bruce Hagen
MS MVP - Outlook Express
~IB-CA~
"paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:eOmj0bBP...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
paul
coffee. :)
What's you opinion on top posting. personally I don't see what all the fuss
is about and its not the first time I get that response either. I like it
better to top post as I don't have to scroll down to see the reply.
Paul.
"Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid> wrote in message
news:O0u5uhBP...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Bruce Hagen
quick, especially if it is a post that *should* be an easy answer. Some
argue that bottom posting is better so all previous replies are included in
order, but you are forever scrolling down to get to the relevant part.
If a thread goes on and on, IMHO, if you bottom post, snipping parts of the
original message would be in order, which takes time. Let the newcomers read
each post/reply if the want.
The Outlook Express newsgroups are probably the most liberal on this issue,
but there are still a few *hard-liners* out there on each side of the issue.
The *Bottom Line* is the bottom line. If you bottom post, you will probably
never get a complaint. But I will still continue to top post myself. Heck, I
don't get paid to do this anyway!
Enjoy your coffee. <w>
--
Bruce Hagen
MS MVP - Outlook Express
~IB-CA~
"paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:ucoVFmBP...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
N. Miller
> "Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:O0u5uhBP...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> "paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:eOmj0bBP...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>> HI! How do we configure outlook Express 6 to put my replies at the bottom
>>> of the message instead of at the top? I am asking this because some
>>> people told me not to TOP Post when replying.
>>I see you are using XP/SP2, (still have some Windows Updates waiting for
>>you), so you have two choices. (Three actually, I top-post).
>>
>> 1): To configure replies to bottom post automatically go to:
>>
>> Start | Run | Regedit | OK. Find:
>>
>> HKEY_CURRENT_USER | Identities | Guid | Software | Microsoft | Outlook
>> Express |5.0. In the right pane, right click on a blank area | New | DWORD
>> Value. Name it Reply At End and set the value to 1.
>>
>> 2): Get OE-QuoteFix:
>> http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
> HI! Great thanks. that was fast. I hardly had time to make myself a cup of
> coffee. :)
>
> What's you opinion on top posting. personally I don't see what all the fuss
> is about and its not the first time I get that response either. I like it
> better to top post as I don't have to scroll down to see the reply.
Short answer: Because that is the way it has been done on the Usenet since
long before Al Gore "invented" the Internet[1].
Long answer: Back in the days of the Arpanet, when this enterprise was
sponsored by the U.S. Government for defense research, the Usenet was
invented as a way for researchers to post articles about their
collaborative projects. Propagation was spotty, and sometimes replies would
arrive on any given NNTP server ahead of the original posts. Plus, many
researchers were tracking multiple threads, with multiple posters. And
latecomers to a thread needed a way to jump in without having to rehash all
the older stuff. And then there was the issue of article retention.
Also, normal narrative runs top down, with the newest part at the bottom.
That _is_ the natural flow of reading books, and it worked well for
collaborative research posts. It is an old, and honored tradition.
Unlike collaborative, multi-party research discussions, business
correspondence tends to be "one-to-one", with fewer messages to track. Top
posting works because each correspondent already knows what is under
discussion. There is a tidy repository of past correspondence, without the
issue of dropped messages from the NNTP servers, or missing messages, or
having to play catch up. So, unlike the Usenet, email, as adopted by
business, moved toward the top posting model. When MSFT started catering to
business, they created their clients on that business model.
As it transpires, most NNTP articles seeking help are easily answered,
often with one-liners, and long discussions usually don't follow. As far as
help groups, such as this one, top posting really isn't so bad (though old
habits die hard).
When business and the Internet collided, there was, and still is, a great
deal of friction over the "right way to do things". In any case, most of us
"old curmudgeons" use news clients designed for the older way of the
Usenet; the space bar works wonders for scrolling down, much easier than
mousing down a page (though a mouse wheel mitigates mouse scrolling
problems).
NOTE[1]: I know, I know; Al Gore never claimed to "invent" the Internet. He
was, however, among the Congressional members who moved the Arpanet from
the private world of Government R&D to the commercial world; for good or
ill. The medium was designed for an environment where the BOFHes[2]
controlled access to the network; you didn't get an email address without a
"need to be connected", and high level approval. The BOFH was "God" on the
Arpanet, and you lost if you didn't play by his rules. Access was not easy.
Commercializing changed all of that. Now, anybody who can pay, can play.
But the security of the old Arpanet was not designed for that kind of open
access (regardless of what the propellerheads like to think).
NOTE[2]: BOFH = "Bastard Operator From Hell"; the chief network
administrator for any given corporate, or university network within the
larger Arpanet. Crossing him would cost you your network access. Now that
money drives access, ISPs are loathe to cut off bad actors; that cuts off
the revenue!
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
paul
Paul
"Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid> wrote in message
news:OTRR6sBP...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Touch Base
"N. Miller" <anon...@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message news:9dd6p8yhz16u$.dlg@msnews.aosake.net...
Wonderful treatise on the pro and con's of top/bottom posting Norman. Enjoyed it immensely.
Darrell S
problem you mention in Newsgroups. Recently I've found even MVPs replying
with top posting (which I prefer) so I deleted Quote Fix and now reply with
top posting (OE default) and ignore complaints. Small issues concern only
small minds. Works fine.
--
Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-
"paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:eOmj0bBP...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
James Silverton
DS> I used Quote Fix for several years to bottom post just
DS> because of the problem you mention in Newsgroups. Recently
DS> I've found even MVPs replying with top posting (which I
DS> prefer) so I deleted Quote Fix and now reply with top
DS> posting (OE default) and ignore complaints. Small issues
DS> concern only small minds. Works fine.
DS> --
DS> Darrell R. Schmidt
DS> B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
DS> -
DS> "paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
DS> news:eOmj0bBP...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
??>> HI! How do we configure outlook Express 6 to put my
??>> replies at the bottom of the message instead of at the
??>> top? I am asking this because some people told me not to
??>> TOP Post when replying.
??>>
??>> Paul
??>>
I generally use FidoLook to reply with end posting as in this
note and I prefer it especially when coming back to a partially
forgotten thread. However, I can see the point in top posting
since it opens at the new material tho' MVPs are not my models
outside their own expertise (I generally admire that!) I suppose
that top posting does have the advantage that you can go to the
latest quoted material quickly. I wonder if I am going to change
my habits? :-)
James Silverton.
Potomac, Maryland.
N. Miller
> Wonderful treatise on the pro and con's of top/bottom posting
> Norman. Enjoyed it immensely.
It is a never-ending battle. Gets very heated at times. The real answer is:
"Go with the flow".
N. Miller
> "paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:eOmj0bBP...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> HI! How do we configure outlook Express 6 to put my replies at the bottom
>> of the message instead of at the top? I am asking this because some people
>> told me not to TOP Post when replying.
> I used Quote Fix for several years to bottom post just because of the
> problem you mention in Newsgroups. Recently I've found even MVPs replying
> with top posting (which I prefer) so I deleted Quote Fix and now reply with
> top posting (OE default) and ignore complaints. Small issues concern only
> small minds. Works fine.
Top posting is okay for help replies, and business missives. It gets rather
tedious for expositive threads.
Michel Merlin
versions) in this "MS Public OE General" newsgroup:
- « Top Posting better fits currrent weird situation
(plain text, clickable links) »
- « Bottom-Posting better if properly opening on Last Message
(HTML, with internal Link to Last Message) »
--ooOOoo--
Copying the Parent Message is a wrong oddity made necessary
by the failure of Indexing. See my message "The Failure of
Indexing - and the odd necessity of recopying parent messages",
news://msnews.microsoft.com/%23qf9f97...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
posted Wed 19 Apr 2006 16:41:40 +0200 in this
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
newsgroup (links are clickable).
That stupid yet mandatory habit makes the email and news
exchanges 2 to 4 times the volume they should be, slowing down
all the chain: writing, transmitting, reading, storing,
retrieving, consulting, searching, re-reading.
In order to make that waste at least somewhat useful, that huge
and systematic recopy should be as little overwhelming as
possible.
First, the traditional ">" sign should be ditched. If you
carefully wrap your lines at the 64-char length that fits
everywhere, your clean text may be messed any time further down
in the discussion by careless adding of ">" signs that may break
your lines. Those ">" signs are unnecessary if you make a clear
header for each message copied; that way the lines will no more
be variable in length, hence no more vulnerable to careless
handling further down in the discussion.
Second, the order you chose, "Top Posting" or "Bottom Posting",
should be clear.
Third, the "Bottom Posting", which is the logical order and
would be the normal one if everything else was correct, can
actually work efficiently only if you have an efficient and
convenient way of making the document open on the beginning of
the last message. This should be feasible in HTML, but the
little work this would require is on the server side (If in
HTML, it should be easy to make that, in the newsgroup table,
the link to the document be completed with an anchor to the body
of that document, which is in facts the Last Message).
Meanwhile, this message (in its HTML version) tries to show what
it could be on the *user* side.
In addition HTML, now an old format, is nevertheless still
too new to be accepted by the hordes of anti-evolution
"I-know-it-all" fanatics on forums. Unfortunate, since a well
written useful message, even if in HTML, remains shorter (and
much more useful) than the so frequent irrelevant plain text
rants we have to suffer everyday. Anyway we have to take this in
account: we still have to stick to plain text for some time.
For those 2 reasons we have so far no efficient way of
systematically doing that proper opening of the document on the
beginning of the last message, hence we have to stick for now to
the traditional - and weird - Top Posting, and in plain text.
No matter whether Top or Bottom posting, in plain text or HTML,
the links should be as clickable as allowed by the weird and
unfinished NNTP system - which I try to do, everyday, and for
instance in the 2 versions (plain text and HTML) of this
message.
Paris, Wed 19 Apr 2006 17:00:00 +0200
----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/OTRR6sBP...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl
Sent: Mon 27 Feb 2006 19:58:35 -0800 (Tue 28 Feb 03:58:35 GMT)
Subject: Re: How to change the sending format?
The pros and cons will go on forever. I feel top-posting is
easier and quick, especially if it is a post that *should* be an
easy answer. Some argue that bottom posting is better so all
previous replies are included in order, but you are forever
scrolling down to get to the relevant part.
If a thread goes on and on, IMHO, if you bottom post, snipping
parts of the original message would be in order, which takes
time. Let the newcomers read each post/reply if the want.
The Outlook Express newsgroups are probably the most liberal on
this issue, but there are still a few *hard-liners* out there on
each side of the issue.
The *Bottom Line* is the bottom line. If you bottom post, you
will probably never get a complaint. But I will still continue
to top post myself. Heck, I don't get paid to do this anyway!
Enjoy your coffee. <w>
--
Bruce Hagen
MS MVP - Outlook Express
~IB-CA~
----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/ucoVFmBP...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl
Sent: Mon 27 Feb 2006 22:46:12 -0500 (Tue 28 Feb 03:46:12 GMT)
Subject: Re: How to change the sending format?
HI! Great thanks. that was fast. I hardly had time to make
myself a cup of coffee. :)
What's you opinion on top posting. personally I don't see what
all the fuss is about and its not the first time I get that
response either. I like it better to top post as I don't have to
scroll down to see the reply.
Paul.
----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/O0u5uhBP...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl
Sent: Mon 27 Feb 2006 19:38:35 -0800 (Tue 28 Feb 03:38:35 GMT)
Subject: Re: How to change the sending format?
I see you are using XP/SP2, (still have some Windows Updates
waiting for you), so you have two choices. (Three actually, I
top-post).
1): To configure replies to bottom post automatically go to:
Start | Run | Regedit | OK. Find:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER | Identities | Guid | Software | Microsoft |
Outlook Express |5.0. In the right pane, right click on a blank
area | New | DWORD Value. Name it Reply At End and set the value
to 1.
2): Get OE-QuoteFix:
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
--
Bruce Hagen
MS MVP - Outlook Express
~IB-CA~
----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/eOmj0bBP...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl
Sent: Mon 27 Feb 2006 22:27:50 -0500 (Tue 28 Feb 03:27:50 GMT)
Subject: How to change the sending format?
Michel Merlin
--ooOOoo--
destroyed by the newsgroup's software,
reposted Wed 19 Apr 2006 17:06:05 +0200
----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/OTRR6sBP...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl
Sent: Mon 27 Feb 2006 19:58:35 -0800 (Tue 28 Feb 03:58:35 GMT)
Subject: Re: How to change the sending format?
The pros and cons will go on forever. I feel top-posting is
easier and quick, especially if it is a post that *should* be an
easy answer. Some argue that bottom posting is better so all
previous replies are included in order, but you are forever
scrolling down to get to the relevant part.
If a thread goes on and on, IMHO, if you bottom post, snipping
parts of the original message would be in order, which takes
time. Let the newcomers read each post/reply if the want.
The Outlook Express newsgroups are probably the most liberal on
this issue, but there are still a few *hard-liners* out there on
each side of the issue.
The *Bottom Line* is the bottom line. If you bottom post, you
will probably never get a complaint. But I will still continue
to top post myself. Heck, I don't get paid to do this anyway!
Enjoy your coffee. <w>
--
Bruce Hagen
MS MVP - Outlook Express
~IB-CA~
----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/ucoVFmBP...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl
Sent: Mon 27 Feb 2006 22:46:12 -0500 (Tue 28 Feb 03:46:12 GMT)
Subject: Re: How to change the sending format?
HI! Great thanks. that was fast. I hardly had time to make
myself a cup of coffee. :)
What's you opinion on top posting. personally I don't see what
all the fuss is about and its not the first time I get that
response either. I like it better to top post as I don't have to
scroll down to see the reply.
Paul.
----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/O0u5uhBP...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl
Sent: Mon 27 Feb 2006 19:38:35 -0800 (Tue 28 Feb 03:38:35 GMT)
Subject: Re: How to change the sending format?
I see you are using XP/SP2, (still have some Windows Updates
waiting for you), so you have two choices. (Three actually, I
top-post).
1): To configure replies to bottom post automatically go to:
Start | Run | Regedit | OK. Find:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER | Identities | Guid | Software | Microsoft |
Outlook Express |5.0. In the right pane, right click on a blank
area | New | DWORD Value. Name it Reply At End and set the value
to 1.
2): Get OE-QuoteFix:
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
--
Bruce Hagen
MS MVP - Outlook Express
~IB-CA~
----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/eOmj0bBP...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl
Sent: Mon 27 Feb 2006 22:27:50 -0500 (Tue 28 Feb 03:27:50 GMT)
Subject: How to change the sending format?
HI! How do we configure outlook Express 6 to put my replies at
Michel Merlin
----- Message 1 (links are clickable) -----From: "paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca>Newsgroup: MS Public OE GeneralPosted: Mon 27 Feb 2006 22:27:50 -0500 (Tue 28 Feb 03:27:50 GMT)
Subject: How to change the sending format?
HI! How do we configure outlook Express 6 to put my replies at the bottom of the message instead of at the top? I am asking this because some people told me not to TOP Post when replying.
----- Message 2 (links are clickable) -----From: "Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid>Newsgroup: MS Public OE GeneralPosted: Mon 27 Feb 2006 19:38:35 -0800 (Tue 28 Feb 03:38:35 GMT)
I see you are using XP/SP2, (still have some Windows Updates waiting for you), so you have two choices. (Three actually, I top-post).1): To configure replies to bottom post automatically go to:Start | Run | Regedit | OK. Find:HKEY_CURRENT_USER | Identities | Guid | Software | Microsoft | Outlook Express |5.0. In the right pane, right click on a blank area | New | DWORD Value. Name it Reply At End and set the value to 1.2): Get OE-QuoteFix: http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
----- Message 3 (links are clickable) -----From: "paul" <paul.d...@sympatico.ca>Newsgroup: MS Public OE GeneralPosted: Mon 27 Feb 2006 22:46:12 -0500 (Tue 28 Feb 03:46:12 GMT)
HI! Great thanks. that was fast. I hardly had time to make myself a cup of coffee. :)What's you opinion on top posting. personally I don't see what all the fuss is about and its not the first time I get that response either. I like it better to top post as I don't have to scroll down to see the reply.Paul.
----- Message 4 (links are clickable) -----From: "Bruce Hagen" <Nos...@mymail.invalid>Newsgroup: MS Public OE GeneralPosted: Mon 27 Feb 2006 19:58:35 -0800 (Tue 28 Feb 03:58:35 GMT)
The pros and cons will go on forever. I feel top-posting is easier and quick, especially if it is a post that *should* be an easy answer. Some argue that bottom posting is better so all previous replies are included in order, but you are forever scrolling down to get to the relevant part.If a thread goes on and on, IMHO, if you bottom post, snipping parts of the original message would be in order, which takes time. Let the newcomers read each post/reply if the want.The Outlook Express newsgroups are probably the most liberal on this issue, but there are still a few *hard-liners* out there on each side of the issue.The *Bottom Line* is the bottom line. If you bottom post, you will probably never get a complaint. But I will still continue to top post myself. Heck, I don't get paid to do this anyway!Enjoy your coffee. <w>--
- « Top Posting better fits currrent weird situation (plain text, clickable links) »
- « Bottom-Posting better if properly opening on Last Message (HTML, with internal Link to Last Message) »