@#$% finally hits fan for Hotmail-in-OE users

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Jun 2, 2009, 8:13:34 PM6/2/09

to

[Crossposted to OE General, OE6 & Win98-OE newsgroups; Follow-up set to OE
General]
============================
[This is a long post but if it applies to you, you're gonna want to read it
all and probably save a copy of it somewhere!]

Remember those emails you got from Hotmail Support about a year ago telling
you that you weren't going to be able to access your free Hotmail account in
OE after 30 June 2008? (cf.
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry)

Well, the @#$% finally hits the fan on September 1st:

<QP>
As technology has evolved, weï¿½ve developed better ways to access email, and
itï¿½s important to us that we provide customers with the best, most efficient
experience possible. Last year, customers asked us to postpone plans to
retire the DAV protocol until more options were available. [cf.
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5745.entry]
Now that these options (including the POP3 protocol) are available, we are
ready to continue with the retirement of the DAV protocol.

If you are using Microsoft Office Outlook, Outlook Express, or Entourage to
view your Windows Live Hotmail, the DAV protocol retirement may affect you.
Microsoft is changing the way these programs access Hotmail e-mail which
will require you to take action. Weï¿½ll be sending a note to customers who
are likely affected to remind them to take action.

To continue to receive e-mail from your Hotmail account in your mail
program, please select one of the alternative solutions below before
September 1, 2009. After this date, new e-mail can only be delivered to
your mail programs through the following alternative solutions. However, you
can continue to view your e-mail via the web at http://mail.live.com or
http://www.hotmail.com.
</QP>
Source:
http://mailcall.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!CC9301187A51FE33!50889.entry (02
June 2009)

IMPORTANT!! One of the instructions for configuring your Hotmail account
for POP3 access on this page is WRONG! =>
http://windowslivehelp.com/solutions/settings/archive/2009/02/18/how-to-add-your-e-mail-account-to-microsoft-outlook-express.aspx

In Step #9, the Port number for Outgoing mail (SMTP) will have to be 587
(not 25 or 995) for 99.99% of you!

=================================

Some very important things to keep in mind as September 1st approaches:

1. When they pull the plug on WebDAV support, all of your Hotmail-specific
folders
(http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/i/tr/cms/contentPics/t01220030403shu01_C.gif)
will disappear from OE.

If you have any messages archived in a Hotmail-specific folder and want keep
them accessible in OE, you will have to Move or Copy them to one or more of
your Local folders.

2. If & when you switch to POP3 access, all your new, incoming messages will
download into the default (local) Inbox folder along with messages from any
other POP3 account.

3. Any incoming messages that currently filter to Hotmail's Bulk Mail folder
will NOT download into OE after September 1st.

However, this and all the rest of your Hotmail folders will remain available
on the webmail page (www.hotmail.com).

4. When you set-up your Hotmail account for POP3 access, you will have
several options here:

ï¿½ LEAVE A COPY OF MESSAGES ON THE SERVER - If you do NOT check/enable
this option, any messages that download into your OE Inbox may be deleted
from the Inbox folder at www.hotmail.com. If you're going to be accessing
your Hotmail account in a Mail Client (e.g., OE; Outlook; Windows Mail;
Windows Live Mail; Thunderbird) on /another/ computer, you MUST check/enable
this option!

ï¿½ REMOVE FROM THE SERVER AFTER XX DAYS - Self-explanatory. If you're
going to be accessing your Hotmail account in a Mail Client on /another/
computer, only check/enable this option on one (1) of the computers!

ï¿½ REMOVE FROM THE SERVER WHEN DELETED FROM 'DELETED ITEMS' -
Self-explanatory.

==========================

On the plus side, however, is the fact that OE's Message Rules can be
applied to new, incoming Hotmail messages after you've switched to POP3
access. So if you want to filter your incoming Hotmail messages to a folder
other than the default Inbox (i.e., a user-created folder), you will be able
to do so. See...

Message Rules Tips
http://www.insideoe.com/tips/rules.htm

Why doesn't my rule work?
http://www.insideoe.com/faqs/why.htm#rules

==========================

If you decide to access your Hotmail account in OE via POP3, it'll be even
more important to adhere to all of the following caveats to avoid corruption
(i.e., loss of messages):

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Disable Background Compacting (not available in WinXP) and frequently
perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working offline". More at
http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

- WinXP ONLY= > Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do
not attempt to close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if
Automatic Compacting is taking place.

- Disable email scanning by your anti-virus application. It can cause
corruption (i.e., loss of messages) and provides no additional protection:

Why you don't need your anti-virus to scan your email
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tutorials/email-scanning/index.htm

Best of luck!
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002

Disclaimer: The information has been posted "AS IS" with no warranties or
guarantees

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Jun 3, 2009, 9:57:28 AM6/3/09

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Some additional references:

=> The POP3 Configuration settings on the following page are correct:
http://liveunplugged.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!F92775FC46A390CA!422.entry

=> Windows Live Hotmail Feedback
https://feedback.live.com/default.aspx?productkey=wlmail

=> Hotmail Online Solutions Center
(Replaces all newsgroup & email support. Got a question or need help? Go
here.)
http://windowslivehelp.com/Default.aspx

Solutions for Common Problems
http://windowslivehelp.com/solutions/

Hotmail Community Forums <=post here instead!
http://windowslivehelp.com/community/Default.aspx
--
~PA Bear

ng_reader

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Jun 4, 2009, 10:48:48 AM6/4/09

to

Thanks. I saw this too. I really appreciate your summary, and likely will
come back again towards that 9-1 cut over.

BTW, is top-posting (the way I write this now) considered "OK" now? I've
heard (especially in development/programming circles) it were...

++++

There were other applications (or so I've heard) that allowed that HTTP
e-mail protocol to be used. Not that I did, just rumored to be there is all.

Personally, Post Office Protocol (POP) should be better all around. It's
been around longer and more clients will be able to use it.

Errr, right?

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23sHZfF%234JH...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6 & Win98-OE newsgroups; Follow-up set to OE
> General]
> ============================
> [This is a long post but if it applies to you, you're gonna want to read
> it all and probably save a copy of it somewhere!]
>
> Remember those emails you got from Hotmail Support about a year ago
> telling you that you weren't going to be able to access your free Hotmail
> account in OE after 30 June 2008? (cf.
> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry)
>
> Well, the @#$% finally hits the fan on September 1st:
>
> <QP>

> As technology has evolved, we�ve developed better ways to access email,
> and it�s important to us that we provide customers with the best, most

> efficient experience possible. Last year, customers asked us to postpone
> plans to retire the DAV protocol until more options were available. [cf.
> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5745.entry]
> Now that these options (including the POP3 protocol) are available, we are
> ready to continue with the retirement of the DAV protocol.
>
> If you are using Microsoft Office Outlook, Outlook Express, or Entourage
> to view your Windows Live Hotmail, the DAV protocol retirement may affect
> you. Microsoft is changing the way these programs access Hotmail e-mail

> which will require you to take action. We�ll be sending a note to

> � LEAVE A COPY OF MESSAGES ON THE SERVER - If you do NOT check/enable

> this option, any messages that download into your OE Inbox may be deleted
> from the Inbox folder at www.hotmail.com. If you're going to be accessing
> your Hotmail account in a Mail Client (e.g., OE; Outlook; Windows Mail;
> Windows Live Mail; Thunderbird) on /another/ computer, you MUST
> check/enable this option!
>

> � REMOVE FROM THE SERVER AFTER XX DAYS - Self-explanatory. If you're

> going to be accessing your Hotmail account in a Mail Client on /another/
> computer, only check/enable this option on one (1) of the computers!
>

> � REMOVE FROM THE SERVER WHEN DELETED FROM 'DELETED ITEMS' -

Meebers

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Jun 4, 2009, 11:40:02 AM6/4/09

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I did a re-configure for my Hotmail account yesterday for about an hour. I
can receive email fine, just cannot send. I switched to port 587 and get
the following error msg. Any help appreciated.

The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was 'x...@hotmail.com'. Subject
'test', Account: xxx, Server: 'smtp.live.com', Protocol: SMTP, Server
Response: '550 5.7.3 Requested action aborted; user not authenticated',
Port: 587, Secure(SSL): Yes, Server Error: 550, Error Number: 0x800CCC78

N. Miller

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Jun 4, 2009, 11:51:01 AM6/4/09

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On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 10:48:48 -0400, ng_reader wrote:

> BTW, is top-posting (the way I write this now) considered "OK" now? I've
> heard (especially in development/programming circles) it were...

Top posting is preferred only in the 'microsoft.public.*' hierarchy of news
groups. It is controversial almost everywhere else.

In 'netscape.public.*', and related, bottom posting, full quoting is
preferred; but that is also controversial in the larger Usenet community;
primarily the full quoting aspect of it.

In the larger Usenet community, the preference is for bottom posting, and
contextual trimming. So you need to pay attention to the groups you are
posting to, because the preferences are not universal.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Meebers

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Jun 4, 2009, 11:49:44 AM6/4/09

to

check the box "My server requires authentication" seems to have solved the
problem.

"Meebers" <Jus...@Idontknow.com> wrote in message
news:O5SF6qS5...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

Twayne

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Jun 4, 2009, 12:05:00 PM6/4/09

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ng_reader wrote:
...

>
> BTW, is top-posting (the way I write this now) considered "OK" now?
> I've heard (especially in development/programming circles) it were...

Sometimes; it depends on the group. Do what you see already being done
the most; you'll usually be safe. The best way is to snip and respond
inline for clarity. But never snip anything relative to your response.
Leave a blank line before and after your entry.

>
> ++++
>
> There were other applications (or so I've heard) that allowed that
> HTTP e-mail protocol to be used. Not that I did, just rumored to be
> there is all.

Not on usenet i don't think. Those are moderated groups usually and
have to do with graphics or video type subjects. HTML or Rich Text
mails are frowned upon in almost all other newsgroups so assume no
unless you see something to the contrary in the guidelines for that
group.

>
> Personally, Post Office Protocol (POP) should be better all around.
> It's been around longer and more clients will be able to use it.

POP has nothing to do with html or plain text mail types; both are
included in the protocol. It covers both 7 and 8 bit transmission.
(1) Short for Post Office Protocol, a protocol used to retrieve e-mail
from a mail server. Most e-mail applications (sometimes called an e-mail
client) use the POP protocol, although some can use the newer IMAP
(Internet Message Access Protocol).

There are two versions of POP. The first, called POP2, became a standard
in the mid-80's and requires SMTP to send messages. The newer version,
POP3, can be used with or without SMTP.

Twayne

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Jun 4, 2009, 1:59:07 PM6/4/09

to

Top-posting is the convention in MS newsgroups.

>> As technology has evolved, weï¿½ve developed better ways to access email,
>> and itï¿½s important to us that we provide customers with the best, most

>> efficient experience possible. Last year, customers asked us to postpone
>> plans to retire the DAV protocol until more options were available. [cf.
>> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5745.entry]
>> Now that these options (including the POP3 protocol) are available, we
>> are
>> ready to continue with the retirement of the DAV protocol.
>>
>> If you are using Microsoft Office Outlook, Outlook Express, or Entourage
>> to view your Windows Live Hotmail, the DAV protocol retirement may affect
>> you. Microsoft is changing the way these programs access Hotmail e-mail

>> which will require you to take action. Weï¿½ll be sending a note to

>> ï¿½ LEAVE A COPY OF MESSAGES ON THE SERVER - If you do NOT check/enable

>> this option, any messages that download into your OE Inbox may be deleted
>> from the Inbox folder at www.hotmail.com. If you're going to be
>> accessing
>> your Hotmail account in a Mail Client (e.g., OE; Outlook; Windows Mail;
>> Windows Live Mail; Thunderbird) on /another/ computer, you MUST
>> check/enable this option!
>>

>> ï¿½ REMOVE FROM THE SERVER AFTER XX DAYS - Self-explanatory. If you're

>> going to be accessing your Hotmail account in a Mail Client on /another/
>> computer, only check/enable this option on one (1) of the computers!
>>

>> ï¿½ REMOVE FROM THE SERVER WHEN DELETED FROM 'DELETED ITEMS' -

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Jun 4, 2009, 1:59:48 PM6/4/09

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Yes, just as the instructions told you to do.

Meebers

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Jun 4, 2009, 2:34:59 PM6/4/09

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It also does not say to use port 587. Did I miss it??

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABe...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:uUF0eAU5...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Jun 4, 2009, 7:03:24 PM6/4/09

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You may have missed...

>>>>> IMPORTANT!! One of the instructions for configuring your Hotmail
>>>>> account for POP3 access on this page is WRONG! =>
>>>>> http://windowslivehelp.com/solutions/settings/archive/2009/02/18/how-to-add-your-e-mail-account-to-microsoft-outlook-express.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>> In Step #9, the Port number for Outgoing mail (SMTP) will have to be
>>>>> 587
>>>>> (not 25 or 995) for 99.99% of you!

Meebers

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Jun 5, 2009, 2:16:36 PM6/5/09

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No...that is were I seen it, my luck, I would have been that 0.01% that did
not need port 587, tried the 25/995 port without any joy.

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABe...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:udhbsjW5...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Jun 5, 2009, 2:35:39 PM6/5/09

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Huh?

...winston

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Jun 5, 2009, 3:16:46 PM6/5/09

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Outgoing Port 587 is the recommended, and usually the only choice instead of port 25 due to port 25 blocking by your isp, hotels,
motels, employer, wifi hot spots etc.
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail

"Meebers" <Jus...@Idontknow.com> wrote in message news:#OpqEng5...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

Meebers

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Jun 5, 2009, 4:01:58 PM6/5/09

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What??

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABe...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:u9RAH0g5...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

Meebers

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Jun 5, 2009, 4:06:44 PM6/5/09

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It has worked just fine for 2 days now, after I made the change to 587. :-)

"...winston" <winst...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eRHYwIh5...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

khaoa...@hotmail.com

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Jun 16, 2009, 9:50:26 AM6/16/09

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"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABe...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:%23sHZfF%234JH...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...