ANN: MS Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Apr 18, 2008, 3:10:18 AM4/18/08

to

[Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
set for OE General]

Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
<quote>
As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
Outlook Express...
</quote>
Source:
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry

======================

Please Note:

1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
Express.

2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.

3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
installation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Windows Live Mail-specific newsgroup:
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via the web-interface:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via your newsreader:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

VanguardLH

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Apr 18, 2008, 3:31:46 AM4/18/08

to

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
> set for OE General]

Note: FollowUp-To ignored. Reply posted to all newsgroups since,
according to PA Bear, they should all be related groups in which
continued discussion is on-topic.

> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
> <quote>
> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
> longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
> Outlook Express...
> </quote>
> Source:
> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry

Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
client which has security flaws and defects just so they can push their
Hotmail users to use a client and connect to their HTTP servers that now
support DeltaSync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so
Microsoft doesn't have to support already established e-mail protocols
and lock their Hotmail users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.

Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.

Gordon

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Apr 18, 2008, 3:47:35 AM4/18/08

to

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23j8BWNS...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
> set for OE General]
>
> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
> <quote>
> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
> no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
> via Outlook Express...
> </quote>
> Source:
> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
>

Does this affect Live Hotmail and Outlook Connector?

VanguardLH

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Apr 18, 2008, 4:11:44 AM4/18/08

to

Gordon wrote:

Live Hotmail? The service or the client?

I can't speak for Windows Mail (not planning to get stuck using Windows
Vista) but Windows Live Mail (WLM) supports the new DeltaSync protocol
that Microsoft is pushing. When you add a Hotmail account, WLM picks
one of the DeltaSync HTTP servers.

Outlook Connector supports DeltaSync but the plug-in only supports
OL2003 and OL2007 and requires the account holder to switch from the MSN
Hotmail interface to the Windows Live Hotmail interface (either the
classic or full versions).

ju.c

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Apr 18, 2008, 7:58:48 AM4/18/08

to

I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!

ju.c

"VanguardLH" <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in message
news:fu9iov$n1u$1...@registered.motzarella.org...

Gordon

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Apr 18, 2008, 8:23:43 AM4/18/08

to

"ju.c" <bibidybu...@mailnator.com> wrote in message
news:%23zTS$0UoIH...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!
>

Well I can get free Hotmail in Thunderbird. So there.

Message has been deleted

Windows Live Mail Technologies Support

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Apr 18, 2008, 11:48:00 AM4/18/08

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Hello All,

I wanted to take some time to address the concerns/questions that have
started on this thread.

Microsoft is doing this to force people onto the client: False. We are
doing this because the DAV protocol is inefficient on larger mailbox sizes.
Once Hotmail upgrade storage space synchronization issues happen within DAV.
DeltaSynch is a stable protocol that will be able to efficiently handle large
accounts.

This locks people into a Microsoft client to access Hotmail: False. Hotmail
customers are able to utilize POP3, or as mentioned below, other clients such
as Thunderbird. Though Live Mail is optimized for usage against Hotmail, it
is not the single choice for connection. You will also be able to continue
full access through your browser.

Does this affect Live Hotmail and Outlook Connector - Yes. Any user
utilizing Outlook connector 1.8 or earlier will need to upgrade to the new
OLC. Live Mail is currently DeltaSynch ready and Live Hotmail is available
through your browser.

--
Scott Hammer
Sr. Supportability Program Manager
Windows Live Mail Technologies
Microsoft Corporation

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Apr 18, 2008, 12:18:44 PM4/18/08

to

VanguardLH wrote:
<snip>

>> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
>> <quote>
>> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
>> no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
>> via Outlook Express...
>> </quote>
>> Source:
>> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
>
> Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
> November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
> accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail

> client...

NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access their
account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.
--
~PA Bear

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Apr 18, 2008, 12:27:04 PM4/18/08

to

Gordon wrote:
>> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
>> <quote>
>> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will
>> no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]
>> via Outlook Express...
>> </quote>
>> Source:
>> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
>
> Does this affect Live Hotmail and Outlook Connector?

I just passed on the news.

AFAIK if you're a Windows Live Hotmail subscriber and access the Hotmail
account via POP3, this change should not affect you.

For more details, see the above link and continue to monitor that blog for
further announcements/clarification/details/information. Also see Scott
Hammer's reply to this thread.

IMHO TIP: Never assume that someone from Windows Live truly understands the
difference between OE and OL when they post here.
--
~PA Bear

Liviu

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:20:39 AM4/26/11

to

To: microsoft.public.windows.
I'll top post, too, to keep the thread at least somewhat readable.

Taking what you say at face value, I'd like to suggest a few simple
changes which would make WLM easier to test-run, and leave less of a
"doing this to force people onto the client: false" impression...

1. Provide a bare no-strings-attached install. Right now, even the
mail-only option downloads some sign-in assistant and live updater.

Current workaround: pretend to install in a sandbox (e.g. VM), then
grab the WLM .MSI file once downloaded, and use that one to install
on the master machine.

2. Ask before importing existing accounts e.g. from OE, not everybody
needs/appreciates that being done automatically with no opt-out choice.

Current workaround for OE: create a dummy identity with no accounts, set
it as default before installing WLM.

3. Don't touch the existing windows update settings, and definitely not
without asking. WLM is (billed as) an email client, not a system nanny.

Current workaround: if auto-update was turned off before installing WLM,
turn it back off afterwards.

4. Don't steal the .EML and .NWS file associations without asking,
especially when WLM is _not_ set as the default client.

Current workaround: restore associations manually after WLM install.

The above notwithstanding, it is true that WLM can be run (for hotmail
access, for example) side-by-side with other email clients.

"Windows Live Mail Technologies Support"
<WindowsLiveMailTe...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:550DEA86-7C67-48A0...@microsoft.com...

---
* Synchronet * The Whitehouse BBS --- whitehouse.hulds.com --- check it out free usenet!
--- Synchronet 3.15a-Win32 NewsLink 1.92
Time Warp of the Future BBS - telnet://time.synchro.net:24

Gordon

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Apr 18, 2008, 1:06:26 PM4/18/08

to

"Liviu" <lab...@gmail.c0m> wrote in message
news:eqpr2UXo...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> I'll top post, too, to keep the thread at least somewhat readable.

So you bread a book bottom up, do you?

Liviu

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Apr 18, 2008, 1:14:50 PM4/18/08

to

"Gordon" <gbpl...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:fuakem$epn$1...@news.mixmin.net...

No, but if someone started reading it to me backwards already, I might
as well continue in the same direction. If nothing else, makes it easier
to remember where to stop ;-)

ANONYMOUS

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Apr 18, 2008, 3:18:59 PM4/18/08

to

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

>
> NB: There are Windows Live Hotmail subscribers who currently access
> their account(s) in OE via POP3. This change will not affect them.

In fact Windows Live Mail allows you to access hotmail account free of
charge even if it is a new account. The idea is MS wants everybody to
use Windows Live Email. OE is a dated technology and it is time to put
it in the museum!!

hth

VanguardLH

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Apr 18, 2008, 5:23:55 PM4/18/08

to

ju.c wrote:

> I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!

And it is after June 30, 2008 wherever you are? What planet would that
be?

VanguardLH

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Apr 18, 2008, 5:33:37 PM4/18/08

to

Gordon wrote:

Not without using additional software, like the Webmail extension
(http://webmail.mozdev.org/index.html) or FreePOPs (don't know if that
still works). Thunderbird alone, the way you mention, doesn't do
Hotmail.

VanguardLH

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Apr 18, 2008, 5:53:36 PM4/18/08

to

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

Wonder how long Microsoft is going to carry those legacy accounts. I've
heard from users of MSN legacy accounts that they still get POP access.
I don't know if the *Hotmail* legacy accounts (legacy as of July 2002
when POP got dropped) continued to get POP access. I thought only the
MSN legacy accounts continued to get POP access.

- 1996 July: Hotmail becomes available.
- 1997 December: Microsoft buys Hotmail.
- 2000 February: For MSN, POP3 access is discontinued and switches to
WebDAV access. MSN "legacy" accounts created before that date continue
to get POP3 access. MSN accounts created after that date only get
WebDAV access.
- 2002 July: For Hotmail, POP3 access is discontinued and switches to
WebDAV access.
- 2004 November: For Hotmail, Microsoft changes policy to disable WebDAV
access for *new* free Hotmail accounts created after that date. Old
(and still active) accounts created before that policy change date
continue to get WebDAV access. New accounts created after that date
must pay to get WebDAV access.
- 2007 June: Microsoft introduces DeltaSync, its replacement for WebDAV.
- 2008 June: Microsoft disables WebDAV and forces use of DeltaSync.

VanguardLH

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:20:42 AM4/26/11

to

To: microsoft.public.windows.
WindowsLiveMailTe...@discussions.microsoft.com wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I wanted to take some time to address the concerns/questions that have
> started on this thread.
>
> Microsoft is doing this to force people onto the client: False. We are
> doing this because the DAV protocol is inefficient on larger mailbox sizes.
> Once Hotmail upgrade storage space synchronization issues happen within DAV.
> DeltaSynch is a stable protocol that will be able to efficiently handle large
> accounts.

Will DeltaSync be a published protocol that any programmer can follow to
add it to their own non-Microsoft e-mail client? Will the command set
needed for the client to communicate with the Hotmail servers be
disclosed?

> This locks people into a Microsoft client to access Hotmail: False.

While there was some documentation regarding WebDAV, like
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2291, it really doesn't describe the
command set that is used between client and the Hotmail mail host. So
even if DeltaSync is a published protocol, will enough information be
dispersed by Microsoft to allow other e-mail clients to support
DeltaSync with whatever command set is required to communicate with
Hotmail? If not, users will be locked into using Microsoft e-mail
clients.

> Hotmail customers are able to utilize POP3, or as mentioned below,
> other clients such as Thunderbird.

As best as I can piece together, and after updating it today, my record
of Hotmail's history (obtained through Google, Wiki, and various other
sources) is:

Hotmail history (obtained through Google, Wiki, and various other
sources)

- 1996 July: Hotmail becomes available. Provides a webmail interface to
e-mail service.
- 1997 December: Microsoft buys Hotmail to include in their MSN
services.
- 1999 August: Anyone can log into any Hotmail account using the
password "eh"
(http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/1999/08/21503).
- 1999 December: Microsoft forgets to pay their passport.com domain
renewal fee. Hotmail is unavailable on Christmas Eve. A Linux
consultant pays the fee and Hotmail comes back up.
- 2000 February: For MSN Hotmail, POP3 access is discontinued and
switches to WebDAV access. MSN "legacy" accounts created before that
date continue
to get POP3 access. MSN Hotmail accounts created after that date only
get WebDAV access which restricts them to using Microsoft's Outlook or
Outlook Express e-mail clients (later some plug-ins or proxies become
available to allow non-Microsoft e-mail clients to access Hotmail but
they get killed in 2004 November except for paid accounts when WebDAV
access gets pulled from free accounts).
- 2002 July: For free Hotmail accounts, POP3 access is discontinued and
switches to WebDAV access. Hotmail PLUS (paying customers) gets
POP3/SMTP mail host access.
- 2003 (autumn): Microsoft forgets to pay their hotmail.co.uk domain
renewal fee. Another good Samaritan pays the fee. No downtime.
- 2004 November: Microsoft changes policy to disable WebDAV access for

*new* free Hotmail accounts created after that date. Old (and still

active) free accounts created before that policy change date (i.e.,
grandfathered accounts) continue to get WebDAV access. After this date,
Microsoft charges for WebDAV access. New plug-ins and proxies start
showing up to compensate. Old plug-ins and proxies still work with
non-Microsoft e-mail clients for *paid* Hotmail accounts where WebDAV
access remains.
- 2005 November: Microsoft officially announces Windows Live Mail
(codename Kahuna), later rebranded to Windows Live Hotmail. Goes
through some beta testing.
- 2006 November: Windows Live Hotmail first released to existing and new
Netherlands users as a pilot market.
- 2007 May: Microsoft releases Windows Live Hotmail to worldwide market.
Users can elect to stay with the MSN Hotmail or try the new Windows Live
Hotmail (classic or full) interface. They are given an option (which
eventually disappears) to switch back to MSN Hotmail.

- 2007 June: Microsoft introduces DeltaSync, its replacement for WebDAV.

- 2007 September: Users start reporting that Microsoft begins
involuntarily *forcing* MSN Hotmail users to migrate to the Windows Live
Hotmail interface. One day they were using MSN Hotmail, the next they
were forced to Windows Live Hotmail without any action on their part,
and they cannot switch back.
- 2007 September: POP3 access returns only for Windows Live Hotmail Plus
(paid) accounts but not for MSN Hotmail Premium (paid) accounts.
Requires SSL connects and SMTP authentication (pop3.live.com port 995,
smtp.live.com port 25 with SMTP authentication, SSL on both).
- 2008 June: Microsoft disables WebDAV on all accounts and forces use of
DeltaSync protocol. For free Windows Live Hotmail accounts, users will
need to use Outlook 2003 or 2007 with the Outlook Connector plug-in
(post-1.8 version) or the Windows Live Mail client. For PAID Windows
Live Hotmail accounts, users can use any POP3/SMTP e-mail client. The
webmail interface remains available for free and paid accounts as it has
been ever since Hotmail existed.

So you'll need to qualify your statement to "Only Windows Live Hotmail
*PLUS* customers are able to utilize POP3 as of November 2007".
"Hotmail" by itself includes all types of accounts: MSN, Hotmail, or
Windows Live Hotmail and free or paid. Only the paid Windows Live
Hotmail accounts get POP/SMTP access.

> Though Live Mail is optimized for usage against Hotmail, it
> is not the single choice for connection. You will also be able to continue
> full access through your browser.

Webmail access has been the substantive interface to Hotmail since its
debut almost 12 years ago in 1996. Nothing new there although it has
gone through facelifts and now adds Ajax. I don't think any Hotmail
user has ever pondered on policy changes, lack of POP/SMTP access,
WebDAV loss, change to DeltaSync, or the other myriad of changes to
non-webmail access to Hotmail to then wonder if there won't be a webmail
interface to Hotmail.

I forget when Microsoft decided to reduce from 2 to 1 advertisements in
the webmail interface to Hotmail but there are still plenty of users
that NEVER want to deal with the webmail interface despite the full
version of Windows Live Mail trying to act like a regular e-mail client.
You've seen a lot of whoopla over whether or not there is a webmail
interface to Hotmail?

VanguardLH

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Apr 18, 2008, 9:55:39 PM4/18/08

to

- Hotmail begins with a webmail interface and provides POP3/SMTP access.
- POP3/SMTP were yanked by Microsoft and replaced with WebDAV.
- WebDAV is considered inadequate and replaced with DeltaSync.
- POP3/SMTP were added back to paid Hotmail accounts.

So if WebDAV was inadequate, why go to DeltaSync at all? Obviously
POP3/SMTP was considered adequate since it was re-offered on paid
accounts (and one MS blog says that it is planned to show up for free
accounts in another 12 months, and that blog was dated back in Nov
2007).

Microsoft goes to DeltaSync *AND* goes back to POP3/SMTP, so why not
just go back to POP3/SMTP? Actually I'd like to see IMAP offered. I'm
really not interested in yet another Microsoft proprietary protocol that
non-Microsoft clients cannot support.

Found an interesting blog of a meeting at:

POP3 on Hotmail Explained: we talk to Omar Shahine
http://www.liveside.net/blogs/interview/default.aspx

which has the meeting recorded (audio only) at:
http://www.liveside.net/files/folders/5578/download.aspx

When playing in Windows Media Player, under View -> Enchancements,
disable SRS (if on) and use the graphic equalizer to drop the bass end
to make the audio more clear.

They are making the same presumption as does GMail: the user wants to
leave all their e-mails up on the server whether read or not. Not me.
I want to locally manage all my e-mails. I don't want to leave them on
the server. So the huge disk space quotas proclaimed by Hotmail, Yahoo
Mail, Gmail, and others means very little to me. I yank the messages so
they are local and I don't need all that disk space for the mailbox.
Far more important is the per-message-size quota as regards to me
retrieving those message. Fortunately I haven't been afflicted with
boob senders that spew huge-sized messages because they know how to put
large files in online disk space and provide a link to it, or I'll
educate them on how to do that.

Microsoft is thinking of e-mail going forward as a substitute for file
transfer protocols (FTP) and obviously e-mail was never designed for
that. It was designed under a trust model to deliver large volumes of
small messages. Omar talks about tens of thousands of messages in the
mailbox whereas I never have more than a couple dozen because of my
e-mail client polling and yanking the e-mails not a whole lot after when
the e-mail arrived (I poll anywhere from 10 to 60 minutes depending on
the use of a particular account and its level of traffic). I do not
want large messages. If I started to get them, I'd configure Outlook to
NOT download them, I'd use the webmail interface to check them, and I'd
probably tell the sender to put their huge e-mail in an anatomical
orifice.

VanguardLH

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Apr 19, 2008, 12:13:49 AM4/19/08

to

N. Miller wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:11:44 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Live Hotmail? The service or the client?
>

> Is there a "Live Hotmail" client?

Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if Microsoft chose to NOT keep appending more
and more words onto their e-mail service and just use "Hotmail"?

David Morgan (MAMS)

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Apr 19, 2008, 2:46:24 AM4/19/08

to

"ANONYMOUS" <ANON...@EXAMPLE.COM> wrote in message news:uE8$QkYoIH...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

Live mail is auto-logging.... kisses the ass of Uncle Sam. Homeland Zecurity
loves it and wants *everyone* to use it.... makes everything much easier.

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Apr 19, 2008, 3:21:15 AM4/19/08

to

Please ask your Windows Live Mail-specific question here:
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via the web-interface:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Via your newsreader:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
--

~PA Bear

VanguardLH wrote:
<snip>

> Will DeltaSync be a published protocol that any programmer can follow to
> add it to their own non-Microsoft e-mail client? Will the command set
> needed for the client to communicate with the Hotmail servers be
> disclosed?

<snip>

VanguardLH

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Apr 19, 2008, 3:58:40 AM4/19/08

to

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

>VanguardLH wrote:
(had to be added manually since PA Bear incorrectly leaves the sigdash
delimiter BEFORE the quoted content - and many non-Microsoft NNTP
clients comply with RFC as to placement and will also strip the
signature from replies. OE has a registry hack to move the signature to
its proper position at the end of the reply.)

><snip>
>> Will DeltaSync be a published protocol that any programmer can follow to
>> add it to their own non-Microsoft e-mail client? Will the command set
>> needed for the client to communicate with the Hotmail servers be
>> disclosed?
><snip>
>

> Please ask your Windows Live Mail-specific question here:
> microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
>
> Via the web-interface:
> http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
>
> Via your newsreader:
> news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

Asking for documentation or an SDK for DeltaSync is not a question about
how to use the Windows Live Mail client.

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Apr 19, 2008, 10:15:12 AM4/19/08

to

[Top posting to p*** you off]

It's not a question for IE- and/or OE-newsgroups either.

unread,

Apr 26, 2011, 11:20:59 AM4/26/11

to

To: microsoft.public.windows.
To correct myself...

Hotmail customers are able to utilize POP3, or as mentioned below, other
clients such as Thunderbird.

I meant Hotmail PLUS customers are able to utilize POP3 as they currently
do...

--
Scott Hammer
Sr. Support Program Manager

Windows Live Mail Technologies
Microsoft Corporation

"Windows Live Mail Technologies Support"
<WindowsLiveMailTe...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:550DEA86-7C67-48A0...@microsoft.com...

---

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Apr 21, 2008, 3:40:17 PM4/21/08

to

cf. http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5441.entry
--
~PA Bear

Windows Live Mail Technologies Support wrote:
> To correct myself...
>
> Hotmail customers are able to utilize POP3, or as mentioned below, other
> clients such as Thunderbird.
>
> I meant Hotmail PLUS customers are able to utilize POP3 as they currently
> do...
>
>

...winston

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Apr 22, 2008, 4:22:28 AM4/22/08

to

Bill..

To echo what's already been mentioned.
a. Pop3 Legacy customers are not impacted
b. PABear has provided the information on the requirement of a subscription based Windows Live Hotmail Plus account($20/yr) to use
the pop3/smtp live.com server.

Configuration Settings can be found here
http://liveunplugged.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!F92775FC46A390CA!171.entry

Note: Pop3 access is currently restricted to legacy pop3 msn accounts and Windows Live Hotmail Plus subscribers.

--
...winston
ms-mvp windows live mail

"Bill Rankin" <bkds_...@msn.com> wrote in message news:#16B6X0o...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

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Apr 22, 2008, 6:28:27 PM4/22/08

to

There's a Hotmail-specific newsgroup?!?!
--
~PAÞ

PA Bear [MS MVP]

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Apr 22, 2008, 6:26:17 PM4/22/08

to

If you're currently able to access your Hotmail account in OE or OL /via
POP3/ (e.g., as a Hotmail Plus subscriber or an Outlook Connector user), the
change will not affect you.

If you're currently able to access your Hotmail account in OE or OL /via
WebDAV/ (aka HTML) as a Hotmail Plus subscriber or an Outlook Connector
user, you must switch to POP3 access by 30 June 2008; see set-up instrux
here:
http://liveunplugged.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!F92775FC46A390CA!171.entry.

At some time in the near future, Outlook Connector users will have to
upgrade the application.

AFAIK MSN/Windows Live Messenger functionality is *not* dependant on having
Windows Live Mail installed. (There are specific newsgroups for both
Messengers where you can ask about this.)

One can have both Windows Live Mail and OE installed (in WinXP SP2) but only
one of them can be the default Mail Client. Installing Windows Live Mail in
WinXP SP2 will delete your shortcuts to OE in Start menu and Quick Launch
bar.
--
~PA Bear

Adela

unread,

Apr 22, 2008, 9:25:42 PM4/22/08

to

Hello, I'm not interested in using hotmail, BUT, all I hope to find out is:
Will this Windows Live Mail affect in any way my Outlook Express??? Thanks
very much! Adela

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23j8BWNS...@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
> set for OE General]
>
> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
> <quote>
> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will

> no longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders]

Michael Santovec

unread,

Apr 22, 2008, 9:45:52 PM4/22/08

to

Windows Live Mail is an alternative mail client to Outlook Express, just
as are Thunderbird, Eudora, etc.

You can import your OE messages and address book into Windows Live Mail.
In fact on install, it will do that by default and take over being your
default mail program. It also takes over the file associations for EML
and NWS files.

You messages and addresses are still in OE and OE is still usable. You
can also put the defaults back to OE by doing a Start, Run and entering:

"C:\Program Files\Outlook Express\msimn.exe" /reg

--

Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

"Adela" <nueva...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:ePYMzDOp...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

Adela

unread,

Apr 22, 2008, 11:08:11 PM4/22/08

to

Thank you Mike but...not knowing whether ti will be better for me than OE,
if I don't import it what will happen? Can I NOT import it and be able to
use my "beloved" OE undisturbed by this new "intruder"??? lol! Adela

"Michael Santovec" <michael_...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:OQCuGPOp...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

PA Bear [MS MVP]

unread,

Apr 23, 2008, 2:22:10 AM4/23/08

to

See the "Please Note" section of my original post, Adela. I will add that
installing Windows Live Mail will delete your OE shortcuts in Start menu and
Quick Launch bar. If you have any other questions about Windows Live Mail,
please post them in the newsgroup I cited in my first post.
--
~PA Bear

Chris

unread,

Apr 23, 2008, 7:16:00 AM4/23/08

to

Thanks, just what I needed to know.

Kind Regards
Chris

unread,

Apr 24, 2008, 1:47:43 AM4/24/08

to

N. Miller wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:11:53 +0300, SaGS wrote:
>
>> My Hotmail account will probably have the same faith as my Yahoo!
>> account: 100% unused, because of not being able to access it from OE.
>

> There are third party POP proxies which will work (sometimes) with web mail
> accounts.

In a virtual machine, I tested FreePOPs to see if it worked with free
Hotmail accounts. It does, sort of. When it works, it works. It
doesn't always work. Don't know if the LUAs (plug-ins) try to use
screen scraping or URL parsing to manipulate the webmail site. I had
used YahooPOPs for several years. If Yahoo changed enough of the screen
or their URLs for navigation then YahooPOPs went dead until the author
scrambled to fix it. If Yahoo shoved in their infrequent CAPTCHA
security screen during the login process, YahooPOPs could tell you about
it but it never worked to try to get YahooPOPs to enter your code
because a new login started which would require a different CAPTCHA.
FreePOPs doesn't look to have the same level of immediacy in getting
problems fixed as did YahooPOPs (which I eventually dropped because it
was still to unstable, often requiring me to restart it every couple of
days).

> OTOH, I don't use MSOE except for Hotmail accounts. I have installed WLM. It
> isn't much better than MSOE, nor worse, really, but it works with Hotmail
> accounts.

Keeping alive my freebie Hotmail accounts is the only reason why I might
install Windows Live Hotmail. I only keep them around for 2 reasons:
there are some Microsoft sites that require a Passport account and I'd
rather not register a non-Hotmail account to get a Passport account to
use those sites (I think webcasts are like that), and someday I may have
to move which means I lose my e-mail address at my ISP (but there are
other free choices).

Now that Gmail added IMAP, I might not bother keeping my Hotmail
accounts with their DeltaSync's IMAP-like synchronization. DeltaSync
sounds great but usually has someone noting that it is developed due to
mailboxes that have tens of thousands of e-mails in them in numerous
folders. That might be true in a corporate Hotmail account or for a
SOHO but not anything I would have for a personal account. With POP3
and repeated polling throughout the day, I have maybe 3 to 6 e-mails
waiting for me, at most, for any one mail poll. Most mail polls have
nothing to yank. I get a good laugh at the gigabyte wars between Yahoo,
Gmail, and Hotmail trying to continually up their disk quota far beyond
anything that I would ever use. 100MB is more than I need. If anyone
sends me a big e-mail to consume a major portion of my disk quota,
they'll get my boot in their butt. E-mail sucks for file transfer.
Even Microsoft has their Skyline service to let users put large files up
in online storage, and there are plenty of other methods to transfer
large files without bloating an e-mail with the text-coded MIME parts
for them.

> For POP3 accounts, I use a combination of Mercury/32 (fetches POP3 email),
> and Pegasus Mail (reads directly from Mercury/32 message store without
> configuring for POP3, or SMTP).

Does Pegasus support regular expressions (and on any header)? I
remember looking at it before but didn't have to test it much. Mercury
is a mail server and I wasn't going to go that far to control my
e-mails.

I suspect that DeltaSync might be technically a better protocol than
IMAP but that's not enough for me to bother with it. Unless Microsoft
publishes the protocol so other e-mail clients can incorporate it,
DeltaSynce will be another one-off experiment by Microsoft to eventually
get replaced later by something else that better suites their goals.
Although not perfect, POP survived for 28 years and IMAP for 18 years.
WebDAV survived 8 years, was proprietary, and its demise was not decided
outside of the one entity that created it. And now we're expected to go
to another proprietary protocol that survives depending on one entity's
decision. If it is so great, they need to publish it and go through the
RFC process so it really does become a standard. One e-mail provider
using a proprietary protcol for which only their e-mail clients will
work is not what I want to lock myself into. Yes, I can pay them to use
non-proprietary protocols but I don't need to.

Webmail access (the only access method that has survived), give POP3
access, drop POP3 access except for legacy accounts, WebDAV for all
accounts, drop WebDAV except for paid and legacy accounts, bring back
POP3 but only for some accounts, drop WebDAV completely, then go to
DeltaSync. That's 7 changes 12 years, maybe more if I missed some of
them. No wonder users have difficulties figuring out how to access a
Hotmail account. "What's it this year?"

PA Bear [MS MVP]

unread,

Apr 24, 2008, 10:06:20 AM4/24/08

to

> I am getting in on the tail end of this thread but I access my AT&T(SBC)
> High-speed Yahoo account mail box from OE all the time. It is POP3. It
> ain't free though.

[<psst> See http://ypopsemail.com/]

> Although, if I wait, maybe Yahoo will become Microsoft and the mailboxes
> will be moved for me.

While MS has been trying to acquire Yahoo Search, it's not been trying to
acquire Yahoo so you may have a very long wait!

> ...If this Hotmail

> change is a Microsoft effort to get as many people off OE as possible then
> it will not be long afterwards before a Windows update kills OE.

Highly doubtful so take off your tin-foil beany, please. While all OE
development stopped in 2006, OE will be supported and critical security
updates will be available for OE as long as the Windows version in which OE
is running is supported. If you install WinXP SP3 (cf.
http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=3214173&SiteID=17),
this policy will extend into 2014, Bill.

--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Bill Rankin wrote:
> I am getting in on the tail end of this thread but I access my AT&T(SBC)
> High-speed Yahoo account mail box from OE all the time. It is POP3. It
> ain't free though.
>
> OT:
> In fact, with all this mess about losing access to the one Hotmail account
> I
> have, I am considering recreating all my MSN mailboxes in my Yahoo account
> even though they are mostly POP3 and will continue to work with OE. That
> will save me $41.90 a month for two MSN dial-up subscriptions. With all
> the
> WI-FI hotspots, the need for dial up has pretty much disappeared and if it
> is really needed AT&T provides it with my wired account.
>
> Although, if I wait, maybe Yahoo will become Microsoft and the mailboxes
> will be moved for me.
>
> My real concern is the future viability of Outlook Express. I have over
> 12
> years of mail saved in the Personal Folders. I like OE, there are no
> rounded corners and it has such a clean, professional looking appearance.
> It does everything I need from a mail/message application. If this
> Hotmail
> change is a Microsoft effort to get as many people off OE as possible then
> it will not be long afterwards before a Windows update kills OE. Paranoia
> is a virtue.
>

Message has been deleted

GEEKETTE

unread,

Apr 25, 2008, 5:56:01 AM4/25/08

to

What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP network
home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She manages groups
for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address but is able to
deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to be http, the sbc
and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to prepare her. She'd
love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

unread,

Apr 25, 2008, 5:43:01 PM4/25/08

to

Any ides where to find the info to reconfigure it? I can probably make the
changes but I wouldn't know what the settings should be changed to. Thanks
for all the help folks!

mae

unread,

Apr 25, 2008, 6:23:54 PM4/25/08

to

No, the new mail will not install on "98;
Since she apparently has what is called Live Hotmail Plus?,
she can change the server from http to POP.
If you sign-in to the Live Hotmail account on the web,
there are full instructions for the settings.
It is one of the FAQ's.
I have set that up on a 98 for a test and it works.
I do have to set the filters, options etc. on the web (at this time)

mae

"GEEKETTE" <GEEK...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:CC2D4183-7E31-476F...@microsoft.com...

mae

unread,

Apr 25, 2008, 6:58:41 PM4/25/08

to

In addition, with Pop, only the mail in the Inbox will be downloaded.
She might want to make sure she has all her mail downloaded before changing,and
move all the messages to storage folder in Outlook Express out of Hotmail.

mae

"GEEKETTE" <GEEK...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:CC2D4183-7E31-476F...@microsoft.com...

-snip

PA Bear [MS MVP]

unread,

Apr 25, 2008, 8:28:10 PM4/25/08

to

See the settings for POP3 access here:
http://liveunplugged.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!F92775FC46A390CA!171.entry
--
~PA Bear

GEEKETTE wrote:
> Any ides where to find the info to reconfigure it? I can probably make
> the
> changes but I wouldn't know what the settings should be changed to.
> Thanks
> for all the help folks!

<paste>

> She does pay $19.95 per year - will she not be affected? Are there any
> changes she needs to make to the way her OE gets her MSN Mail? It is
> http:
> in the settings, the other two are pop3.
>
> She doesn't like the process she has to go through to keep her mail handy
> using the gmail or sbc interface, I'm not sure how she'll feel about the
> New
> Win webmail. Still, will the new Windows Live Mail install on WIN98? I
> would guess not but couldn't find any specifics on that either.

</paste>

PA Bear [MS MVP]

unread,

Apr 25, 2008, 8:32:46 PM4/25/08

to

Please do some research before posting such information: Windows Live Mail
is *not* supported in Win9x.
--
~PA Bear

Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM

unread,

Apr 25, 2008, 8:43:05 PM4/25/08

to

"ANONYMOUS" <ANON...@EXAMPLE.COM> wrote in message
news:481244FF...@EXAMPLE.COM...

> She will need to download and start using Windows Live Mail available free
> of charge from here:
>

> The service is completely free as far as I know because I am using it!!!
>
> GEEKETTE wrote:
>
>> What will happen to my mom who uses OE WIN98SE with DSL off of our XP
>> network
>> home hub to get email from msn, sbc and gmail accounts? She manages
>> groups
>> for seniors and keeps it all organized by the email address but is able
>> to
>> deal with all of it in WIN98SE OE - The MSN accts appear to be http, the
>> sbc
>> and gmail are pop/smtp - I'm not an expert, just want to prepare her.
>> She'd
>> love to keep things just the way she uses it now...

Can't.
She has Win98.

--
Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM
Do not reply with email

unread,

Apr 26, 2008, 12:01:26 AM4/26/08

to

After subscribing to Hotmail Plus
http://get.live.com/en-us/mailplus/features

If you find that OE defaults to one of the following(after entry of hotmail or msn or live.com address)
a. an http account
b. an http server
c. a message indicating that http is not supported

To overcome the above issue, restart the process and instead of <yourusername>@hotmail.com temporarily enter
<yourusername>@xyz.com, once the balance of the pop3 settings are configured correctly , go back and edit the email address field
in the incoming server to the correct email address, then test the account(send yourself a message)

Use of Pop3 for a Hotmail Plus account will not synchronize any additional user folders created within the Hotmail account using
the prior interface(OE or the Web[Hotmail.com])
- the Junk Mail folder will have to be monitored via the web interface(hotmail.com or mail.live.com)
- any user created folder within the prior http Hotmail account will not appear locally.
- rules created within the Hotmail web interfaced will continue to function(if moved to the web based user folders, those messages
will not appear in the OE Inbox. If the local Inbox is the preferred destination, delete the rules in the web interface and create
new ones locally in OE.

--
...winston
ms-mvp mail

"GEEKETTE" <GEEK...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:D4210BF6-DF2D-4CCD...@microsoft.com...

zh...@datanumen.net

unread,

Apr 26, 2008, 7:08:07 AM4/26/08

to

On 4月25日, 下午10时00分, "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABear...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mom will have to subscribe to Windows Live Hotmail Plus (US$19.95/year)and
> then reconfigure the account to be accessed via POP3 before 30 June 2008.
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> AumHa VSOP & Adminhttp://aumha.net

> DTS-Lhttp://dts-l.net/

> >>http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.as...

>
> >> Via your newsreader:
> >> news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
> >> --
> >> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> >> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> >> AumHa VSOP & Adminhttp://aumha.net

> >> DTS-Lhttp://dts-l.net/- 隐藏被引用文字 -
>
> - 显示引用的文字 -

Hi,

After having tried various of methods without improvement, you can
have a try to use special utility to repair your Outlook Express dbx
file. I know one, called Advanced Outlook Express Repair.
Fortunately , It worked rather well for my corrupt Outlook Express dbx
files last time. I think it may be helpful to you. You can download it
from the following address .Its web address is http://www.datanumen.com/aoer/

Alan

PA Bear [MS MVP]

unread,

Apr 26, 2008, 10:05:05 AM4/26/08

to

SPAM!!

zh...@datanumen.net wrote:
<snip>

> Hi,
>
> After having tried various of methods without improvement, you can
> have a try to use special utility to repair your Outlook Express dbx
> file. I know one, called Advanced Outlook Express Repair.
> Fortunately , It worked rather well for my corrupt Outlook Express dbx
> files last time. I think it may be helpful to you. You can download it
> from the following address .Its web address is

> XXX.datanumen.com/aoer/
>
> Alan

Message has been deleted

ANONYMOUS

unread,

Apr 26, 2008, 4:16:36 PM4/26/08

to

and you helped him by posting his links verbatim!!

And you helped him by posting his links verbatim!!

unread,

Apr 27, 2008, 10:52:29 AM4/27/08

to

Alex Plantema wrote:
>> Your messages and addresses are still in OE and OE is still usable. You

>> can
>> also put the defaults back to OE by doing a Start, Run and entering:
>> "C:\Program Files\Outlook Express\msimn.exe" /reg
>
> Does this affect all users or only the current user?

If you install Windows Live Mail, it will become the default Mail Client for
all User Accounts.

Workaround for WinXP: http://windowsxp.mvps.org/defaultmail.htm

Message has been deleted

Michael Santovec

unread,

Apr 27, 2008, 5:12:20 PM4/27/08

to

If you are referring to the

"C:\Program Files\Outlook Express\msimn.exe" /reg

That affects all users on the PC. The default mail program and Windows
File Associations (e.g. EML, NWS, etc.) are system wide and not tied to
a user.

Different users can use different mail programs. But when another
program asks to send an e-mail (e.g. Mailto link on a web page, File,
Send to an application etc.), it's going to bring up whatever mail
program is the default.

If different users want different default mail programs, then see:

Set the default email client on a per-user basis
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/defaultmail.htm

--

Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

"Alex Plantema" <al...@nl.invalid> wrote in message
news:uA01cmF...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

Message has been deleted

David Morgan (MAMS)

unread,

Apr 27, 2008, 8:47:34 PM4/27/08

to

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABe...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:%235ilXzG...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> You refer to a Microsoft Service Agreement for all Windows Live
> applications, not just Windows Live Mail.
>
> These applications include OneCare and OneCare Family Safety, either of
> which may remove Potentially Unwanted Software whose removal "may cause
> other software [not necessarily Windows Live or MS software] on your
> computer to stop working, and it may cause you to breach a license to use
> other software [ditto] on your computer"; (e.g., using OneCare to remove the
> "sponsor software" which may be included when you install Messenger Plus,
> depending on how MP is installed).

> I am neither an apologist/evangelist for nor do I represent Microsoft.

I'm glad to hear that. ;-)

DM

Too many open ports these days.....

Alex Plantema

unread,

Apr 28, 2008, 7:26:29 PM4/28/08

to

Michael Santovec schreef in news:uGTYjtKq...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl

> If you are referring to the
>
> "C:\Program Files\Outlook Express\msimn.exe" /reg
>
> That affects all users on the PC. The default mail program and
> Windows File Associations (e.g. EML, NWS, etc.) are system wide and
> not tied to a user.
>
> Different users can use different mail programs. But when another
> program asks to send an e-mail (e.g. Mailto link on a web page, File,
> Send to an application etc.), it's going to bring up whatever mail
> program is the default.
>
> If different users want different default mail programs, then see:
>
> Set the default email client on a per-user basis
> http://windowsxp.mvps.org/defaultmail.htm

Thanks for all answers.
I haven't tried it, because there's no choice on my computer so far,
but it seems to me that the selections on the Programs tab
of the Internet Options are on a per-user basis too.

--
Alex.

Alex Plantema

unread,

Apr 28, 2008, 7:28:43 PM4/28/08

to

PA Bear [MS MVP] schreef in news:%235ilXzG...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl

> You refer to a Microsoft Service Agreement for all Windows Live
> applications, not just Windows Live Mail.
>
> These applications include OneCare and OneCare Family Safety, either
> of which may remove Potentially Unwanted Software whose removal "may
> cause other software [not necessarily Windows Live or MS software] on
> your computer to stop working, and it may cause you to breach a
> license to use other software [ditto] on your computer"; (e.g., using
> OneCare to remove the "sponsor software" which may be included when
> you install Messenger Plus, depending on how MP is installed).

Thank you for your explanation.

--
Alex.

PA Bear [MS MVP]

unread,

Apr 28, 2008, 7:46:50 PM4/28/08

to

Nope, the default Mail Client is a universal setting for all User Accounts
in WinXP, Alex. See the link in Michael's post.

PA Bear [MS MVP]

unread,

Apr 28, 2008, 7:41:17 PM4/28/08

to

YW, Alex. Thanks for posting back.

...winston

unread,

May 1, 2008, 1:46:41 AM5/1/08

to

I'm happy to report and clear up some confusion(mine and maybe others) on
the OLC version number.
Provided and permitted for use by Scott Hammer, Msft.
<qp>
Outlook Connector 12 is the latest version.
The link below is the OLC that will be DeltaSynch compliant.
</qp>

Here's the link for Outlook Connector Version 12
<http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=7aad7e6a-931e-438a-950c-5e9ea66322d4&displaylang=en>

Scott, thanks again...we appreciate the additional info !
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail

"Windows Live Mail Technologies Support" wrote:
> Hello All,
>> Does this affect Live Hotmail and Outlook Connector - Yes. Any user
> utilizing Outlook connector 1.8 or earlier will need to upgrade to the new
> OLC. Live Mail is currently DeltaSynch ready and Live Hotmail is available
> through your browser.
>
> Scott Hammer
> Sr. Supportability Program Manager
> Windows Live Mail Technologies
> Microsoft Corporation

ANUNCIOS-24H.COM

unread,

May 1, 2008, 1:25:57 PM5/1/08

to

OPORTUNIDAD PUEDES ESTAR PREZENTA EN MAS DE 30 PAISES CON EL NUEVO POTAL DE
ANUNCIOS GRATUITOS WWW.ANUNCIOS-24H.COM PARA PARTICULARES Y EMPRESAS
...ANUNCIOS EN CATEGORIAS ...Y MUCHO MAS

PA Bear [MS MVP]

unread,

May 1, 2008, 2:51:57 PM5/1/08

to

@Scott: Why does the Download page still say "Version: 4" ???

ANONYMOUS

unread,

May 1, 2008, 4:02:14 PM5/1/08

to

Because there is no such thing as version 12. Could it be that he meant
connecter for Office [with Outlook] version 12?

Hope this helps.

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

wheatl...@hotmail.co.uk

unread,

May 7, 2008, 2:44:56 AM5/7/08

to

"N. Miller" <anon...@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message
news:b9lad14i...@msnews.aosake.net...
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:31:46 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
>> November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
>> accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live Mail
>> client which has security flaws and defects...
>
> More so than MS Outlook Express? Could you elaborate?
>
>> ...just so they can push their Hotmail users to use a client and connect
>> to their HTTP servers that now support DeltaSync
>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so Microsoft doesn't have
>> to support already established e-mail protocols and lock their Hotmail
>> users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.
>
> WebDAV isn't, exactly, an "established" protocol. It is, and always has
> been, a closed-source, proprietary protocol. And anybody using MSN Hotmail
> between the time that they shut off POP3/SMTP access, and shut of WebDAV
> access has been locked in to using Microsoft e-mail clients. With the
> possible exception of IncrediMail, which is probably the only client worse
> than MS Outlook Express, I can't think of a client which includes support
> for WebDAV. This is what happens with closed-source, proprietary systmes.
>
> "Established" protocols, at least of the open source variety, are:
>
> POP3
> IMAP
> SMTP
>
> MS Outlook Express will continue to support those "estabished" protocols,
> and even Windows Live Hotmail will support them on the paid accounts.
>
>> Well, the microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop group should be
>> getting a lot more busy. Wonder how many will simply choose to dump a
>> local e-mail client and just go with the Windows Live Hotmail "full"
>> webmail interface? Might be what Microsoft intends to happen, anyway,
>> so they can push their Ajax-enabled webmail interface.
>
> Or they might just be "going with the flow". Of four people, whom I help
> with computer support, none routinely use a desktop e-mail client; only
> one
> even knows what an e-mail client is. I'd guess that 65% to 70% of the
> users
> on the Internet, and 85% to 90% of new users, don't even know that there
> is
> more to the Internet than the web.
>
> --
> Norman
> ~Shine, bright morning light,
> ~now in the air the spring is coming.
> ~Sweet, blowing wind,
> ~singing down the hills and valleys.

Nancy

unread,

Jan 23, 2009, 5:35:01 PM1/23/09

to

HOW ???

Please tell the rest of us who don't want Windows Live Mail
--

"ju.c" wrote:

> I can get free Hotmail in OE, hehehe!
>
>
> ju.c
>
>
> "VanguardLH" <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in message
> news:fu9iov$n1u$1...@registered.motzarella.org...

> > PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
> >

> >> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups;
> >> Followup-To
> >> set for OE General]
> >

> > Note: FollowUp-To ignored. Reply posted to all newsgroups since,
> > according to PA Bear, they should all be related groups in which
> > continued discussion is on-topic.

> >
> >> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook
> >> Express
> >> <quote>
> >> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you
> >> will no
> >> longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail
> >> folders] via
> >> Outlook Express...
> >> </quote>
> >> Source:
> >> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
> >

> > Hmm, so they dropped WebDAV access for freebie accounts created after
> > November 2004. Now they're dropping WebDAV access even for paid
> > accounts (any create date) and forcing users to their Windows Live
> > Mail

> > client which has security flaws and defects just so they can push

> > their
> > Hotmail users to use a client and connect to their HTTP servers that
> > now
> > support DeltaSync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaSync). All so
> > Microsoft doesn't have to support already established e-mail protocols
> > and lock their Hotmail users into using Microsoft e-mail clients.
> >

PA Bear [MS MVP]

unread,

Jan 23, 2009, 6:14:44 PM1/23/09

to

You really should get out more often, my dear. First of all, see
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5745.entry (05
Jun-08), which is a follow-up to
http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry (17
Apr-08).

Now see
http://windowslivehelp.com/solutions/settings/archive/2009/01/13/pop3-availability-in-windows-live-hotmail.aspx
(13 Jan-09)

--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Nancy wrote:
> HOW ???
>
> Please tell the rest of us who don't want Windows Live Mail
>

Nancy

unread,

Jan 24, 2009, 2:07:01 PM1/24/09

to

I probably should get out more often and I wouldn't have these PC problems.
Want to take me out to dinner?

Since I really don't have any options but to do Windows Live Mail I 've
decided to forget it and just use webmail for the hotmail account.
I have some pop3 emails for my business and want to keep with
Outlook Express for now.

Thanks for your help.
Nancy
--

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

> [Crossposted to OE General, OE6, IE General, & IE6 newsgroups; Followup-To
> set for OE General]
>

> Microsoft Announces Changes for Accessing Hotmail with Outlook Express
> <quote>
> As of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling the DAV protocol and you will no
> longer be able to access your Hotmail Inbox [or other Hotmail folders] via
> Outlook Express...
> </quote>
> Source:
> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!5D6F5A79A79B6708!5359.entry
>

> ======================
>
> Please Note:
>
> 1. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ disable your access to Outlook
> Express.
>
> 2. Installing Windows Live Mail /may/ change your default Mail Client from
> Outlook Express to Windows Live Mail.
>
> 3. The Windows Live "all-in-one" installer /may/ install more than just
> Windows Live Mail. If you decide to try Windows Live Mail, UNCHECK any
> unwanted Windows Live applications (e.g., Windows Live Messenger; Windows
> Live Toolbar; Windows Live Family Safety) before proceeding with the
> installation!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Windows Live Mail-specific newsgroup:
> microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
>
> Via the web-interface:
> http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop
>
> Via your newsreader:
> news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

D. Spencer Hines

unread,

Jan 24, 2009, 2:32:35 PM1/24/09

to

Spot On!

Thousands are voting with you.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor

"Nancy" <Na...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E05ABEA8-175B-4C7E...@microsoft.com...

GERARDO MARIO

unread,

Jan 24, 2009, 4:38:36 PM1/24/09

to

"Nancy" <Na...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E05ABEA8-175B-4C7E...@microsoft.com...