SP 2 working nice - but still no Spotlight support

[Peter]

Servus,

does anyone have an idea if this will ever happen?

[Pete]

My understanding is that Spotlight support would require a significant
overhaul of the way Entourage stores its information. Apparently, the
monolithic database format is difficult to integrate with Spotlight search
technology. Even Apple had to reformat the way Mail 2.0 stores messages
(.mbox database --> .emlx single file/message) to take advantage of
Spotlight.

From what I've heard this overhaul will not happen with Ent2004. Keep your
fingers crossed for Office 2006!

On 9/21/05 8:54 AM, in article
1127307294.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "Peter"

[Scott Melendez]

I’ve posted my thoughts about this before. Both Entourage and Outlook use the same method — in a single file. Yet the Windows Desktop search function will index the PST file. Didn’t Microsoft use the PST file format for Outlook Express? Why was it abandoned?

I actually LIKE the find feature in Entourage. (OK, maybe not like, but it’s acceptable in everyday use.) Combined with LaunchBar, which can index the Entourage Address Book, it gives me a Spotlight-like capability.

BTW...I’ve seen numerous threads “blaming” Microsoft for using a single database format...but that is actually how its done on an enterprise level. Both Exchange and IBM Domino use a single file to store mail, calendar, and tasks. Exchange’s format is truly monolithic, in that there is a single object store for all users and their data. Domino/Notes uses a single file for each user, which makes the administrative burden a little less; but having all that data in a single file is a major headache. That is why both systems use a proprietary file format, so that they can provide built-in indexing/searching features that go beyond a simple find, e.g., indexing attachments, having STOP words, etc.

The “desktop search” paradigm is a fairly new thing, and both Microsoft and IBM are trying to see how to fit their message object stores into that functionality.

[Paul Berkowitz]

On 10/28/05 1:40 AM, in article BF87320A.10E7E%scottc....@gmail.com, "Scott Melendez" <scottc....@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ve posted my thoughts about this before. Both Entourage and Outlook use the same method — in a single file. Yet the Windows Desktop search function will index the PST file. Didn’t Microsoft use the PST file format for Outlook Express? Why was it abandoned?

No they didn't. PST is only for Outlook, and depends on MAPI protocol. It has never been used on the Mac, aside from Outlook 2001 itself. Outlook Express Windows uses a .dbx database format (which is apparently not great). Outlook Express Mac – if that's what you mean – used separate message files in OE 4 (the first version), then files representing mail folders (probably mbox files or similar) in OE 4.5. Then OE 5 starting using the the single Database format (actually there were two interdependent files : a "Messages" file and a "Database" file) that became the precursor – literally – for Entourage 2001, which was built in it. Entourage X combined the Messages and Database files into one file. It's the single database which allows for interoperability of messages, contacts, calendar, tasks, notes, projects, and the links between them, use of the same categories across all data types, etc. It's because they were planning Entourage as a personal Information manager that they changed to database format in OE Mac 5.0 – it was a "tryout" for Entourage – work was already been done on Entourage.

I actually LIKE the find feature in Entourage. (OK, maybe not like, but it’s acceptable in everyday use.) Combined with LaunchBar, which can index the Entourage Address Book, it gives me a Spotlight-like capability.

BTW...I’ve seen numerous threads “blaming” Microsoft for using a single database format...but that is actually how its done on an enterprise level. Both Exchange and IBM Domino use a single file to store mail, calendar, and tasks. Exchange’s format is truly monolithic, in that there is a single object store for all users and their data. Domino/Notes uses a single file for each user, which makes the administrative burden a little less; but having all that data in a single file is a major headache. That is why both systems use a proprietary file format, so that they can provide built-in indexing/searching features that go beyond a simple find, e.g., indexing attachments, having STOP words, etc.

The “desktop search” paradigm is a fairly new thing, and both Microsoft and IBM are trying to see how to fit their message object stores into that functionality.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

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PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using - **2004**, X  or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions otherwise.

[Boettcher, Scott]

It was also used in Outlook 98.

SB

On 10/28/05 11:09 AM, in article BF87B74E.B6D6D%berkowit@spoof_silcom.com, "Paul Berkowitz" <berkowit@spoof_silcom.com> wrote:

[Paul Berkowitz]

Outlook 98 is a version of Outlook for PC. On the PC, PSTs have been used for all versions of Outlook: 95, 97, 98, 2000, 2002 (XP) and 2003. On the Mac, I'm not sure what was used on the version before 2001, which was Outlook 8.2 – was it also PST? In any case it was not cross-operable with Outlook Windows. It was the great improvement of 2001 that it allowed PSTs from Outlook Mac 2001 to be also opened (immediately converted) in Outlook Windows 2000 and later, and vice versa (although there can be considerable loss of data – the more obscure fields – when opening PSTs form Outlook Windows in Mac 2001 – for contacts there are only 28 fields on the Mac as opposed to 87 in Outlook 2001 and 92 fields in Outlook 2002 and 2003, for example). It suddenly made Outlook 2001 much more useful in businesses with both. Now that Entourage 2004 can convert PSTs form Outlook 2001, and you can still open PSTs form Outlook Windows in 2001, that usefulness is still there in that direction, but there's no converter going back the other direction. (My scripts work though.)

Did you mean Outlook 8.2.2? Did it use PSTs that didn't work in Outlook Windows?

[Boettcher, Scott]

Could be – I remember it as part of our corporate Office 98 CDs.
I don’t know if the PSTs would work on a PC, but the PSTs don’t convert over to Entourage unless you copy the contents to a new PST in Outlook 2001 (Mac)
I’ve had to do this with the older clients here that have PSTS from that age.

SB

On 10/28/05 2:41 PM, in article BF87E92A.B6E00%berkowit@spoof_silcom.com, "Paul Berkowitz" <berkowit@spoof_silcom.com> wrote:

[Scott Melendez]

I suppose even if Microsoft had kept the same PST format for Entourage, it would have, in all likelihood, experienced similar issues in regards to Spotlight indexing. The PST file format on Windows is not backwards compatible, as anyone who remembers migrating to Office 2000 from previous versions. I seem to recall that Microsoft made it exceedingly difficult — I don’t remember if the change in the file structure had to do with accommodating Exchange (which was still a new product), or sloppy work of Microsoft’s part.