Rick B....do you enjoy being rude?
Cat
someone posts a question in the wrong forum or makes some other insignificant
mistake!
Rick B
wrong group.
--
Rick B
"Cat" <C...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DF1285AF-37EA-4573...@microsoft.com...
Douglas J Steele
us do though?
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)
"Rick B" <Anonymous> wrote in message
news:OzDysvDV...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Aaron G
Not to make light of your obvious frustration, but that subject line just
cracked me up. It's true that an off-topic post will often be quickly
redirected by Rick B. However, I see this as an overall service to the
newsgroup as a whole.
As somebody who uses this newsgroup frequently, I can appriciate that the
subject matter is (almost) entirely about Access. If I had to read through a
bunch of outlook, excel, and pottery questions I would simply not use the
forum and look elsewhere.
I don't want to speak for Rick, but if his responses seem curt, I'm assuming
it's because nothing else needs to be said. The off topic questions are
often very involved - much more so to the point of a quick response, and to
start responding in depth would be a disservice to the actually Access users
who are looking for Access answers. It would also be a disservice to the
original poster who could get a better response in the appropriate newsgroup.
As far as correcting small mistakes, I've seen (quite often) users posts
that simply do not make sense. They make sense to the poster because they
are the ones who posted them, but totally incoherent to anyone on the outside.
Again, as a frequent user of this newsgroup I've posted many questions that
have been answered fantastically by Rick B. I find it's knowledgable users
like him who make the newsgroup worthwhile. A newsgroup comprised entirly of
newbies would be a disaster!
That's just my opinion.
Aaron G
Philadelphia, PA
Rick B
--
Rick B
"Aaron G" <Aar...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2E304259-1569-487E...@microsoft.com...
Cat
people decently has not gone out of style. It is not what you say, rather
how you say it (or write it, as the case may be) Have a Good Evening and end
of discussion.
'69 Camaro
Ma'am (or should I call you mdavis, the name you usually go by in the Access
newsgroups?), you are _greatly_ mistaken. Please take a look at the
following Web page:
Do you see all of those green check marks next to many of the replies?
Those are replies that have been marked as answers to the original poster's
question. Of the more than 1,000 people in the Access newsgroups who have
had their replies marked as answers to the question, Rick B is in the top
10. That means that he has answered more questions correctly and has helped
more people than _almost_every_ participant in these newsgroups, including
almost every Access MVP.
So if you don't see him offer much help, perhaps you need to look a little
deeper.
Have a nice day.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"Cat" <C...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DF1285AF-37EA-4573...@microsoft.com...
Aaron G
I spoke ill of neither you nor Rick. I offered you a way of looking at your
situation in a positive light, yet you implied that I am not among those who
"believes that treating people decently has not gone out of style".
Your unwillingness to look at the situation from a different perspective and
your backhand attack to someone who would take time to attempt to help you
says volumes about you.
Also, those truly looking for what is right would always be open for more
discussion, and not demand that it is now "end of discussion" like one were
talking with a three year old.
Perhaps to find the rude one here you need go no further than your mirror.
Joseph Meehan
I really don't see Rick as being rude. A little abrupt at times, but
the sooner someone finds out that they directed their question to the wrong
place the better for them and everyone.
--
Joseph Meehan
Dia duit
mnature
Thanks Cat. Appreciate you bringing this up, so we could compliment Rick.
'69 Camaro
may change your profile name to "Frustrated" (we can see your previous posts
no matter which name you used):
. . . or you can change it back to mdavis or Cat or give any name you
please, and we can still see that it's you posting messages to the
newsgroups. However, an apology for trying to be so deceptive will go a
long way to keep you from getting plonked by those who might otherwise
gladly answer any Access questions you desperately need help with.
<Elsethread:>
"Cat" wrote:
> I guess I am just one of those rare individuals who believes that treating
> people decently has not gone out of style. It is not what you say, rather
> how you say it (or write it, as the case may be) Have a Good Evening and
> end of discussion.
Most of us consider honesty to be a part of treating people decently. Most
of us also consider dishonesty to be a much bigger transgression than being
rude. Or are you one of those rare individuals who believes that dishonesty
has not gone out of style? Or am I being rude to point out your dishonesty?
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:ODiTTXEV...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Stephen Lebans
the overwhelming majority of postings to the public MS NG's do not originate
from the Microsoft NG Web interface you are referring to. IMHO to state that
Rick B's contribution, within any context, exceeds almost every Access MVP,
is misleading and innaccurate.
With that being said, I have no problem with the majority of Rick's
responses. If I were not an MVP, many of my posts would also be extremely
short, and like Rick's, approaching and reaching the point of rudeness at
times, from some people's perceptions.
Finally, again IMHO, the only thing that has stopped Rick B from becoming an
MVP is the perceived attitude in some of his posts. His talent and effort
within the NG community is equal to many of the MVP's.
Just my $.02
--
Stephen Lebans
http://www.lebans.com
Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.
"'69 Camaro" <>
KARL DEWEY
be told they are wrong or be corrected. It seems to be that is why so many
kids are not learning anything in school these days.
'69 Camaro
Cat remarked that she doesn't see Rick B offering much help. On the
contrary. He has offered more help than most people have in the Access
newsgroups, and I pointed to quantitative evidence that is available for the
public to see as to just how significant his help has been.
> the overwhelming majority of postings to the public MS NG's do not
> originate from the Microsoft NG Web interface you are referring to.
If you check the number of posts since the beginning of this year in the 11
most popular of Microsoft's Access newsgroups, you will see that there are
32,053 posts that originated from Microsoft's Web newsreader and 44,047
posts that originated from elsewhere, so obviously the majority of posts are
submitted from elsewhere. However, 13,704 questions originated from
Microsoft's Web newsreader and 6,904 questions originated from elsewhere,
meaning 66.5% of questions posted in these Access public newsgroups have
come from Microsoft's Web newsreader so far this year, and these questioners
are the people who are marking answers. My point is that it's not just a
handful of people who can mark replies as answers to their questions that
are then displayed in Microsoft's Web newsreader, but it's a significant
majority of questioners who have an opportunity to mark anyone's replies as
answers. And those replies can originate from _anywhere_, not just from
Microsoft's Web newsreader, so no one is excluded from getting his reply
marked as an answer just because the reply wasn't submitted via the Web
interface.
My other point is that quite a significant number of those questioners chose
to mark Rick B's replies as answers to their questions because he gives
accurate answers so very often.
> IMHO to state that Rick B's contribution, within any context, exceeds
> almost every Access MVP, is misleading and innaccurate.
In the context of the number of people who found that a poster gave them a
correct answer to their questions and indicated this with a green check
mark, Rick B has more green check marks than almost everyone else who posts
in the Access newsgroups, including almost every Access MVP. (My most
recent statistics are more than a month old, so I'll gather the latest
numbers and post them later this evening. The numbers come from Microsoft's
database, so if you still believe that my assertion is misleading and
inaccurate when I post them, then please feel free to count them for
yourself, because the Web pages revealing all the posts marked as answers
since early June 2004 are available to the public.)
This certainly isn't the only context to measure a person's contribution to
the Access newsgroups. If you have another quantitative method available to
the public for measuring and comparing a poster's helpfulness with others'
Access newsgroup contributions, then please suggest it.
> Finally, again IMHO, the only thing that has stopped Rick B from becoming
> an MVP is the perceived attitude in some of his posts.
Thank goodness showing an occasional abrasive attitude didn't prevent
Microsoft from selecting or reselecting MichKa or Albert D. Kallal for the
Access MVP award. I'm sure all of us have learned a great deal from the
contributions of all three of them.
> His talent and effort within the NG community is equal to many of the
> MVP's.
I wholeheartedly agree. It's an accomplishment to be proud of. And one
that should be recognized.
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"Stephen Lebans" <ForEmailGotoMy.WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot...@linvalid.com>
wrote in message news:uaOmfVF...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
david epsom dot com dot au
> had their replies marked as answers to the question, Rick B is in the top
> 10. That means that he has answered more questions correctly and has
> helped
Cool,
How do you get those statistics?
(david)
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:ODiTTXEV...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
TC
do not appear in google groups. Often, I only see the replies to them.
Since I dislike MS's interface, & like google's much better, this is
really annoying :-(
TC (MVP Access)
http://tc2.atspace.com
Frustrated
please check your facts and leave me out of the games.
Frustrated
to this newsgroup all the time, so the fact that I show having 40 posts is,
well, not a revelation. Grow up.
Tony Toews
wrote:
>Thank goodness showing an occasional abrasive attitude didn't prevent
>Microsoft from selecting or reselecting MichKa or Albert D. Kallal for the
>Access MVP award.
Michka was last an MVP a number of years ago in the 1997-1998 time
frame roughly. He was on the Access development team for A97 (his
name is in the credits.) and is currently back working for MS in the
area of internationalization.
I meet up with him once a year or so in Seattle.
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
'69 Camaro
According to the latest count of posts (as of yesterday evening) in 12 of
the most popular English-speaking Access public newsgroups since early June
2004, there are five Access MVP's who have answered more questions than Rick
B has, and the rest of the Access MVP's (current and former) have answered
fewer questions, as indicated by one or more of their replies in a thread
having been marked as an answer (green check mark icon) to the question
(brown question mark icon):
Rank Poster # Answers
---------------------------------------------
#1 Access MVP 1125
#2 Access MVP 963
#3 Access MVP 903
#4 Ofer 706
#5 Access MVP 648
#6 Access MVP 560
#7 Rick B 498
#8 Rick Brandt 476
As you can see, Rick B isn't the only non-MVP who has made a significant
effort in helpful contributions to the Access newsgroups.
Anyone who wants to is welcome to confirm the accuracy of the count of the
number of green check marks any poster has earned by reviewing Microsoft's
Web newsreader. One may start here:
And the other 11 newsgroups can be navigated to by using the Web menu on the
left labeled "Access Database." Please note that I've used Microsoft's
criteria for counting, and Microsoft counts only one green check mark per
poster per thread as an answer to one question, despite whether or not
multiple replies from that poster were marked as answers to the question.
So one poster may have three replies marked as answers in the same thread,
but only one question has been answered by that poster, so that's what he
gets credit for: one answer.
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:udgXRPIV...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
'69 Camaro
> How do you get those statistics?
Query Microsoft's database to download the data, clean up the data, use ETL
algorithms to consolodate the data, then run the queries for reports. It's
tedious and it takes a while since the source database is across the
Internet, but Microsoft doesn't post the statistics. So it requires some
legwork for anyone curious, but it's one of the capabilities of a tool we
built for our customers.
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"david epsom dot com dot au" <david@epsomdotcomdotau> wrote in message
news:uUvPoGJ...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
'69 Camaro
> Since I dislike MS's interface, & like google's much better, this is
> really annoying
Yes. It's incredibly annoying. I don't know why Google Groups doesn't save
the first post to its archive, although I'm sure that it can because the
rest of the news servers I've subscribed to keep these posts available for
two months or more. And I see other Web newsreaders showing these first
posts, too. Just not Google Groups, which is the best place to research
newsgroup threads.
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"TC" <aatcbb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143809648.5...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
'69 Camaro
> I meet up with him once a year or so in Seattle.
For the Summit, no doubt. I've never met him but I've read many of his
newsgroup articles and know of him through a friend who attends the same
Access user group meetings as he does. Very impressive individual.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"Tony Toews" <tto...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:ksqq229kttdd193m9...@4ax.com...
Brendan Reynolds
First of all, on the point that many non-MVPs have made significant
contributions, of course I absolutely agree - I don't think anyone in this
thread was implying otherwise.
However, according to the web page at the URL you posted, just one of my
posts to this newsgroup - going back as far as April 2005 - has been marked
as helpful. This would seem to indicate either that I am a singularly
unhelpful person, or that the number of posts marked as helpful via that web
site is not a reliable indicator of helpfulness. I know which of the above I
believe to be true. Others will have to draw their own conclusions.
--
Brendan Reynolds
Access MVP
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:eCCisJPV...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
aaron...@gmail.com
left in the world.
your software is buggy, unreliable
you guys need to grow a real skillset and start writing SQL Server
applications.
ADP made you MDB kids obsolete like.. uh.. almost 7 years ago now??
John Marshall, MVP
news:%23MzHjnQ...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
> First of all, on the point that many non-MVPs have made significant
> contributions, of course I absolutely agree - I don't think anyone in this
> thread was implying otherwise.
>
> However, according to the web page at the URL you posted, just one of my
> posts to this newsgroup - going back as far as April 2005 - has been
> marked as helpful. This would seem to indicate either that I am a
> singularly unhelpful person, or that the number of posts marked as helpful
> via that web site is not a reliable indicator of helpfulness. I know which
> of the above I believe to be true. Others will have to draw their own
> conclusions.
>
> --
> Brendan Reynolds
> Access MVP
You could add a tag line to your response asking the user to mark your
message as helpful.
The MVP award is not a popularity contest and unfortunately that is what the
web interface is promoting. Also, the web interface dos not give an
indication of the quality of the answer. What percentage of the answers
actually get acknowledged as being helpful? In my home turf of the Visio
newsgroups, less than ten percent of my answers are acknowledged with an
indication that they were helpful.
If you use the web interface to check the posts of the current MVPs, you
will notice that most do NOT have the MVP icon next to their name. This is
an indicator that the MVPs posts were not done useing the web interface.
Though handy for the general user, the web interface is not designed for how
most MVPs read the newsgroups. The general user is looking for a specific
answer, while the MVP is looking for new messages since their last session
or messages they have yet to read. Products like Outlook Express are far
more friendlier to ehe MVPs' approach to the newsgroups.
John... Visio MVP
'69 Camaro
Ma'am, you can be resentful all you want and feign innocence, but your
continued deception will continue to be pointed out.
>> please check your facts
Okay. Let's check the facts. You usually sign in as mdavis to post
questions to the Access experts who generously answer your questions for
you, but you made a mistake in the following thread, and Rick B reminded you
about double-posting a question after you'd already received a response to
your first question:
Here's your first question on the topic that had already received a
response:
Rick was polite enough to you, but you didn't like being told that you were
wrong, so you created a new .Net Passport for a new Microsoft Community user
account, used Cat as the profile name, and then posted this message to
publicly embarrass him while attempting to remain anonymous:
When you later returned to the thread and discovered that your usual
identity had been found out, you signed back in to your mdavis .Net Passport
account and changed the profile name to Frustrated, so that you wouldn't be
recognized in the future and possibly be embarrassed for your failed attempt
at deception and failure to put Rick in his place. You patted yourself on
the back for being so clever, and then you went home for the day. When you
came back to work again this morning at Kinetic Concepts, you discovered
your ruse had been revealed yet again, so you decided to claim innocence and
try to redirect the spotlight elsewhere -- anywhere but at the guilty party:
you.
> And since I have no problem being rude
> . . . . Grow up.
Thank you for admitting that you believe it's okay for _you_ to be rude, but
it's not okay for others to be. You may try to change the subject and
demand that others behave when you, yourself, have not, but you won't
succeed. The subject is still your dishonesty and how you tried to publicly
embarrass Rick -- and still haven't gotten away with it.
> so the fact that I show having 40 posts is,
> well, not a revelation.
You didn't understand what you were being shown, so here's the revelation
for you. Expand the threads on the following Web page, which reveals the
records from the database search on _your_ Microsoft Community user account:
Do you notice a black triangle in the left margin pointing to each of the
mdavis and Frustrated posts in each of the threads, and _only_ to those
posts? Those triangles point to all of the names that have been used in the
profile assigned to the same .Net Passport user account shown in that
database search, which is currently using Frustrated as the profile name --
as revealed by clicking on the name of the author of those particular posts
in the right hand pane, even the ones that were authored by mdavis before
the name change.
Let me spell it out for you. It doesn't matter what the current profile
name is, because the database will show the posts made with that profile and
reveal the profile name at the time of the post. And it doesn't matter that
you created a new .Net Passport as "Cat" to post an anonymous slap to Rick's
face, because we still knew it was you posting under a different name and
even pointed this out to you in one of the threads.
No matter what you do, you'll be caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
We can see it's you. Does this clarify things for you, ma'am?
>> and leave me out of the games.
It's your own efforts that brought you here, because you don't like being
told, yet again, that you were wrong. You can come clean and offer an
apology to Rick B or risk that all 7,500 employees at Kinetic Concepts get
plonked by the Access experts who avoid dishonest people, especially the
ones who try to prove that they are more clever -- and do it rather badly.
The choice is yours. Since, as you say, you post questions to this
newsgroup all the time, I'm sure you'll make the right choice.
Oh, did I mention that if you use a different Web newsreader than
Microsoft.com's, we can still see it's you posting the question? Or would
you rather take the time to get training and experience in Access so that
you don't need an Access expert's help? Or would you rather be using Oracle
development tools to interface your company's Oracle databases, instead of
Access?
Or would you rather we just have Aaron Kempf answer all of your future
Access questions? He can help you with all of your Excel spreadsheets, too.
Just ask him.
Have a nice day, ma'am.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"Frustrated" <Frust...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C7859070-E33E-4202...@microsoft.com...
TC
majority of answers are not marked as helpful. So that statistic is not
significant, IMHO.
TC
John Marshall, MVP wrote:
> Also, the web interface dos not give an indication of the quality of the answer.
IOW, what does "helpful" mean?
For example, I have a policy of not discussing SQL questions, unless
the person tells me the primary keys of the tables. Some of these
questioners probably think, "Geez, what a plonker, why can't he just
answer my question?" But if the poster answered /my/ question, he might
find out that his tables are wrongly designed. In which case, he is
wasting his time completely, trying to write the SQL, before he has
fixed the PKs of his tables.
Would that poster mark my answer as helpful? No. But is that a fair
rating? Not if you look at the entirety of the poster's situation.
Stephen Lebans
for the first time I took a few minutes tonight to have a look through the
MS NG Web interface. One issue quickly surfaced.
What is the percentage of overall questions that actually receive a Helpful
checkmark? It seems less than 15% to me in random browsing. If I'm correct
in my assumption then any conclusions drawn from the "helpfullness"
checkmark qualifier must be diluted to say the least.
You mentioned this Web interface as the only available quantitative measure
of helpful NG responses. Browsing through the posts marked as helpful it is
readily apparent that a qualitative component would be required to derive
any truly meaningful results from the numbers you posted.
Finally, three last issues.
1) Any data set concerning this issue that does not accurately resolve the
contributions of Brendan Reynolds, among others that I perceive as not only
my peers but frankly more helpful in the NG's than myself, is flawed IMHO.
2) In examining my own responses, I would state that they are all helpful
and 99% accurate, yet very few are marked as helpful.
3) Many of the responses marked helpful are simply pointers to a URL where
the solution is to be found. I could spend my limited NG time answering more
than 10 posts a day that could be readily answered in a couple of minutes
total if I so desired. A person could quickly become a MS "medalist" simply
by responding to "How do I show a File Dialog?". Would this person deserve
this designation? Not from my perspective.
--
Stephen Lebans
http://www.lebans.com
Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:eCCisJPV...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Tom Wickerath
it. See post # 9 here:
Tom
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/search.html
__________________________________________
Brendan Reynolds
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:eup4VQRV...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
<snip>
> You could add a tag line to your response asking the user to mark your
> message as helpful.
It doesn't bother me whether anyone marks my answers or not, John. I merely
wished to point out the inadvisability of drawing any conclusions based on
such incomplete data.
I fully agree with the other points you made.
'69 Camaro
> This would seem to indicate either that I am a
> singularly unhelpful person, or that the number of posts marked as helpful
> via that web site is not a reliable indicator of helpfulness.
Anyone counting the total number of your posts marked as answers will see
that you are single-handedly one of the most helpful contributors in the
Access newsgroups.
> Others will have to draw their own conclusions.
In those 12 Access newsgroups, you have hundreds and hundreds -- and more
hundreds! --
of your replies marked as an answer to the question with a green check mark
and the tooltip "1 of 1 people found this post helpful," and you found
exactly one of them -- and then stopped looking?
Others might conclude that when you were a kid, all the other kids let you
carry the Easter egg basket -- so that you could participate in Easter egg
hunts, too. <g,d,r>
If you need help finding the more than 10 dozen Easter eggs with your name
on them hidden in just that one newsgroup out of the twelve, please let me
know. :-)
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"Brendan Reynolds" <bren...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:%23MzHjnQ...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
'69 Camaro
> I merely wished to point out the inadvisability of drawing any conclusions
> based on such incomplete data.
Surely, no MVP would do such a thing. ;-)
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"Brendan Reynolds" <bren...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:%23KOrZuY...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
John Vinson
DOT net> wrote:
>Regarding that "occasional abrasive attitude", I smile when I sometimes read
>it. See post # 9 here:
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.access/browse_frm/thread/b6ba4a2c7bcd7fb4/18ca9c13ad197aae
Well, that's the problem, you see. One should avoid getting into a
battle of wits with an opponent who's only half armed!
John W. Vinson[MVP]
Brendan Reynolds
I hear what you're saying, Gunny. I'll look into it. Right now I'm finding
the web site unusable slow, but I'll try again later.
--
Brendan Reynolds
Access MVP
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:OpukqzbV...@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Tom Wickerath
Tom
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/search.html
__________________________________________
'69 Camaro
> The MVP award is not a popularity contest and unfortunately that is what
> the web interface is promoting.
You mean a questioner might skip the first correct response to his question
and then mark only the correct response of a more popular poster as an
answer? Nah, I don't believe it. . . .
The idea is to create a searchable database of solutions to problems that
researchers can use to quickly find what they need, and to post questions
when they don't find the answers they were looking for. That intention has
nothing to do with the MVP Award or a popularity contest, but there are
observable side effects present where these factors apparently influence
which posts get added to the database of answers.
The MVP's are more well-known and are a little more likely to have their
replies marked as answers than non-MVP's, but I believe non-MVP's can get a
sort of "name brand recognition" to improve the chance of getting their
correct replies marked as answers, too. To test my theory, I became a
member of the Microsoft Community about a year ago and started posting
answers from the Web. The quality of my answers didn't change, but my
chances of getting my replies marked as an answer increased four-fold when I
answered a question using Microsoft's Web newsreader, vice using Outlook
Express, which I'd been using for years and I had thought had earned me some
familiarity within the Access community.
My member profile gave me visibility in that questioners could see that I'd
answered others' questions previously, since each member's profile displays
the number of questions answered correctly and how many different users have
been helped by the member. I think it's because people could see that I was
probably giving them the same high-quality answer that I'd given a lot of
other people previously, which gave them the confidence to mark my reply.
People didn't seem to have that same confidence when I answered their
questions while using Outlook Express.
If you want to call that increased visibility "popularity," then so be it.
I can report that it had a noticeable and measurable effect.
> Also, the web interface dos not give an indication of the quality of the
> answer.
Microsoft is approaching this with the reasoning that the reputation of the
poster indicates the quality of the answer given, instead of hiring or
getting volunteer judges to judge the merit of individual posts. In their
system, either an MVP or any member who has earned a contributor level badge
indicates a poster who gives high quality answers.
Google Groups has recently introduced a star rating system so that readers
can indicate the quality of any given post, but since it's fairly new, not
many replies have been given a rating. It will take time for such a system
to become a reliable means of quickly researching solutions to a problem.
And there's currently no way to sort on rated answers, so I hope Google
introduces this feature, as I think a star rating system holds the most
promise.
Other than Google Groups and Microsoft's Web newsreaders, I know of no other
publicly available system that indicates the quality of answers posted in
any newsgroup threads. The logistics to carry out a quality control system
for answers requires extra effort and resources, so I can see why this area
has been neglected.
> What percentage of the answers actually get acknowledged as being helpful?
Last time I checked was about six months ago and 13% of questions in the
Access newsgroups had replies marked as answers.
> In my home turf of the Visio newsgroups, less than ten percent of my
> answers are acknowledged with an indication that they were helpful.
Different newsgroups have different rates. The rate is generally a function
of the amount of traffic (the higher the number of questions posted means
more people have been there before and are familiar with marking answers,
and may be more inclined to do so), difficulty level of the questions
(easier questions get replies marked as answers more frequently because the
questioner is more certain that it is indeed the correct answer), the skill
level of the responders, and the number of responders available (additional
experts available to correct any incorrect replies means the questioner can
read and understand the discussion on why one solution may be better than
another).
If you want to compare your rate to Access MVP's rates, six months ago
Access MVP's ranged from 7% to 19% for number of posts marked as answers,
with the average at 14%. Unfortunately, that includes posts advising people
that they were posting in the wrong newsgroup or multiposting, which aren't
going to earn marks as correct answers, so this phenomenon skews the average
for the individuals who are the most active in guiding people to the correct
newsgroups and in how to best post to get replies.
And if you think there's a low acknowledgement rate, there's something you
can do about it. It's not just the original poster who may mark a post as
an answer to the question. MVP's can sign in to the Microsoft Online
Community and mark posts as answers, too. Also, any member can sign in and
mark replies as "helpful" if they didn't post the question themselves.
There's a finite time period when a post can be marked, because after nine
weeks threads age off of the server. So if you see any outstanding replies
to questions that have been neglected by the questioner, feel free to sign
in as an MVP and mark the answers so that they go into Microsoft's
searchable answer database.
> Though handy for the general user, the web interface is not designed for
> how most MVPs read the newsgroups.
I'm not an MVP, so I must be one of your general users. I can tell you that
the Web interface ain't handy for responders, unless one has a tool that
automates it, as I do. Responders answering and following multiple threads
on a regular basis should be using a different tool than a Web newsreader,
if one is available.
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:eup4VQRV...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
'69 Camaro
> Right now I'm finding the web site unusable slow,
<sigh> Microsoft's Web designers managed to stuff an average of more than
half a MB of text and images into each Web page, so the speed might not get
any faster for you. Ever.
I can paste the URL's into this message, but it becomes an HTML table that
probably won't be usable when it's posted. Perhaps I can E-mail you a
zipped spreadsheet with the clickable URL's instead? I don't have a valid
E-mail address for you, though. If you're willing to send me your E-mail
address, you may contact me at this message's displayed E-mail address, sans
ZERO_SPAM wherever it appears. My E-mail address can also be found on the
Web page for contact info listed below.
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"Brendan Reynolds" <bren...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:%23l7ad2c...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
'69 Camaro
> the
> majority of answers are not marked as helpful. So that statistic is not
> significant, IMHO.
The good news is that any MVP can sign in to the Microsoft Online Community
and mark answers as helpful. You and all of the other MVP's have had the
power to make that statistic significant.
Have you done so? If you have, since we can see it's a work in progress, do
you have an estimated date of completion? If not, then why do you complain
that it doesn't meet your standards when you haven't made an effort to bring
it up to your standards?
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"TC" <aatcbb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143850322.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
david@epsomdotcomdotau
> deserve this designation? Not from my perspective.
I think there should be room for 'that kind of person' as well.
Quoting my own observation :~) from a couple of years ago:
"MVP's are polite.
"MVP's answer the ordinary repetitive questions as well as the interesting
ones.
(david)
"Stephen Lebans" <ForEmailGotoMy.WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot...@linvalid.com>
wrote in message news:%23iVO$tSVGH...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Hey Gunny,
> for the first time I took a few minutes tonight to have a look through the
> MS NG Web interface. One issue quickly surfaced.
>
>
Tony Toews
wrote:
>> I meet up with him once a year or so in Seattle.
>
>For the Summit, no doubt.
Most of the time. I've been there other times as well.
Tony Toews
>Regarding that "occasional abrasive attitude", I smile when I sometimes read
>it. See post # 9 here:
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.access/browse_frm/thread/b6ba4a2c7bcd7fb4/18ca9c13ad197aae
Well, yes, but Aaron is an exception.
This is impressive. Within four minutes of a posting on that thread
Google has it in the newsgroup thread.
Tony Toews
wrote:
>> I merely wished to point out the inadvisability of drawing any conclusions
>> based on such incomplete data.
>
>Surely, no MVP would do such a thing. ;-)
<snort> <chuckle>
Brendan Reynolds
Hi Gunny,
My mistake was that I was looking only at posts marked 'helpful', not at
posts marked as answers. I had not realised that there was a difference.
I followed the 'Why should I rate a post?' link and read what was said
there. It says that one can obtain more information about a poster by
clicking the poster's display name, but when I tried that with my display
name and with yours, all I got was a pop-up-window that said 'no information
available'.
I think the subject is probably of interest to others, and we should try to
keep the discussion in the newsgroup in so far as that is possible, but you
are welcome to send e-mail if you wish. The address is the first four
letters of my given name followed by the first four letters of my family
name at brinkster dot net.
--
Brendan Reynolds
Access MVP
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:%23SCwyRe...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
'69 Camaro
> I had not realised that there was a difference.
It's rather confusing how and why they built the Web newsreader tools the
way they did. Reading the online help is a must unless one wants to do a
lot of trial and error.
> when I tried that with my display name and with yours, all I got was a
> pop-up-window that said 'no information available'.
Neither of us was signed in as a member of the Microsoft Online Community
via the Web newsreader when we posted our messages to UseNet, so the Web
newsreader doesn't have an assigned member profile to display on either one
of us. Here's a recent thread with two members, Tom Wickerath and Ken
Sheridan, who were signed in when they posted their messages, so you can see
what the authors' profiles look like.
> you are welcome to send e-mail if you wish.
Thank you. I sent you the zipped spreadsheet.
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"Brendan Reynolds" <bren...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:OPrX%23ooVG...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
TC
'69 Camaro wrote:
> Hi, TC.
>
> > the
> > majority of answers are not marked as helpful. So that statistic is not
> > significant, IMHO.
>
> The good news is that any MVP can sign in to the Microsoft Online Community
> and mark answers as helpful. You and all of the other MVP's have had the
> power to make that statistic significant.
>
> Have you done so?
Nope. I find the MS web interface inefficient, so I am not inclined to
use it. I only found out about it fairly recently. Comparing it &
google, there's no way that I would swap to it (from google) yet.
> If you have, since we can see it's a work in progress, do
> you have an estimated date of completion? If not, then why do you complain
> that it doesn't meet your standards when you haven't made an effort to bring
> it up to your standards?
Huh? I'm not complaining to anyone, about anything. I've used the
google interface for years. I will continue using it until something
better comes along. The MS web interface is not "it", yet, IMHO. I am
under no personal obligation to use the MS inteface AFAIK.
Brendan Reynolds
Thanks Gunny.
According to the figures you sent me, which I do not doubt, 126 of my
messages posted to the microsoft.public.access newsgroup between 14 June
2004 and 28 March 2006 were marked as answers. According to Google, I posted
1,350 messages to that newsgroup in that timeframe. So based on the number
of posts marked as answers via Microsoft's web-based interface, one would
conclude that about 9.3% of my posts answer the question asked.
What is the reality? I'm not about to trawl through 1,350 posts to find out,
but I looked at a sample, and my estimate is that somewhere in the region of
75% of my posts answer the question asked.
These figures do not change my opinion that the number of posts marked as
answers via Microsoft's web-based interface is not an accurate reflection of
the poster's contribution.
--
Brendan Reynolds
Access MVP
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:uqtQMtpV...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
aaron...@gmail.com
aaron...@gmail.com
grants MVPs to people that follow GROUPTHINK
when was the last time that we heard a MVP really call out Microsoft?
like, for example
-----------------------------------------------
Hey, Microsoft-- when are you going to fix SQL authentication?
-----------------------------------------------
I just think that the whole concept of a MVP is to be VALUABLE. And in
a closed; propietary system; I argue that the only way to be VALUABLE
is to kick and scream at those lazy jerks out in redmond-- since
Redmond has all the power; what is the point of <I>only awarding MVPs
to people that agree with you</I>?
I think that we should create a new category called
MVDS
Most
Valuable
Drill
Sargent
And when we discover someone-- like myself for example-- that is
willing to STAND UP TO MICROSOFT AND DEMAND SOMETHING BETTER-- then we
should award them for their persistence.
When we find someone like 'Rick B' that might be rude here and there??
Maybe we should AWARD HIM INSTEAD OF TALKING TRASH TO HIM.
I think that MVPs should be independent of Microsoft; or the govt-- or
another company-- or SOMEONE should come out with some type of award to
recognize people that are HELPFUL but not pleasant and peachy and
innocent and bland.
I dont think that I've ever met a single Access MVP that knows jack
shit about SQL Server.
I've never met a single MVP that is willing to KICK AND SCREAM ABOUT
THIS ABUSIVE FAT LAZY COMPANY ACROSS THE POND (Lake Washington that is
lol)
Anyone that is developing Access without using SQL Server should be
drawn and quartered.
Literally you MDB assholes should be shot and fed in stew to the poor
people.
I believe that Microsoft's treatement of Access MVPs; is that they
consistently reinforce the MDB concept
THIS MDB CONCEPT IS OBSOLETE AND YOU LAME ACCESS MVPs SHOULD BE SHOT
FOR SCARING PEOPLE AWAY FROM A REAL DATABASE.
WHY DOESNT MICROSOFT GIVE MVPs TO ADP DEVELOPERS?
WHY DOESNT MICROSOFT GIVE MVPs TO ADP DEVELOPERS?
WHY DOESNT MICROSOFT GIVE MVPs TO ADP DEVELOPERS?
Why doesn't Microsoft give MVPs to people that submit bugs? Why
doesn't Microsoft keep track of how many SqlWish each person has
submitted?
That seems 100 times more VALUABLE than this cheesy whiteboard where we
call each other names when we disagree
People that INNOVATE-- are the people that should be rewarded.
-Aaron
'69 Camaro
> So based on the number of posts marked as answers via Microsoft's
> web-based interface, one would conclude that about 9.3% of my posts answer
> the question asked.
You've made four assumptions that make your conclusion about your success
rate unfair and unrealistic.
Assumption #1: Every post has a chance to earn one answer.
It doesn't. For an example, a question is posted and you reply to it.
Additional information is added in the OP's second post. You reply again
and the OP marks your response as an answer to his question. So there's one
question, one answer marked, and four posts, two of which are yours. What
is your success rate?
A. 0%
B. 25%
C. 50%
D. 100%
The answer is D. No matter how many posts are made to the thread, and no
matter how many of those posts are yours, only one answer can be awarded per
poster per question -- and you earned it, so you have a 100% success rate in
this example.
So you need to count the total number of threads participated in, not the
total number of posts posted when calculating your success rate.
Assumption #2: That every question posted can have replies marked as
answers.
Unless you've discriminated against questions posted via UseNet newsgroup
subscribers, Google Groups, AccessMonster.com, et cetera, and only answered
questions posted via the Microsoft Web newsreader, then there are quite a
number of questions that you are relying on an MVP to come around and mark
the replies. The original poster can't mark replies to that question as
answers unless he was signed into the Microsoft Online Community to post the
question. Historically, the chances of an Access MVP marking a
non-Microsoft Online Community post approaches 0%, so realistically one can
never count on it.
Allowing a large number of questions into the statistical pool that will
always have a 0% success rate will decieve one into thinking that one always
failed on those questions. It's like my claiming, "I can't get Brendan
Reynolds to shake my hand," when in fact we've never been in the same room,
so there's never been an opportunity. It would be totally unfair of me to
make such a claim.
So, to be fair in calculating your success rate, only consider those
questions you participated in that have a reasonable opportunity to be
marked by the OP as having an answer. Those questions would be the ones
submitted via the Microsoft Web newsreader by members of the Microsoft
Online Community.
Assumption #3: That Google Groups gives an accurate count of posts (or
threads).
It's not accurate, but it does give a ballpark count. Google's search
engine is built to use the key word indices to optimize searches, but since
they enhanced it with the "Google Groups Beta" version, it drops out dozens
or even hundreds of threads for an individual poster being searched on
unless one uses two week increments and accumulates those counts over a
period of time to calculate the total count.
Assumption #4: That unless a data sample consists of the entire population,
or most of it, that no conclusions may be drawn from the data.
We don't need everyone who can give feedback to actually do so before we can
determine trends and draw reasonable conclusions from their feedback. I
just checked the most recent data downloaded (1 Jan. '06 through 30 Mar. '06
for the 12 Access newsgroups mentioned earlier), and for the 13,268
questions where the OP _could_ have marked answers, 2,811, or 21.2%,
actually did. That's a fairly large sample size, but when we draw
conclusions about a sample of the data, we need to also calculate the
theoretical margin of error so that we can determine how reliable those
conclusions are.
For example, if we took a poll of a group of registered voters and asked
them how they would vote on a law legalizing the death penalty if an
election were held today, and the poll results were as follows:
65% against the death penalty
30% for the death penalty
5% I don't know
+/- 3.5% margin of error
. . . then we can conclude that it would take a miracle for this law to be
passed today. Even if we subtracted the margin of error from the group of
responders against the death penalty and added this to the group of
responders for the death penalty and generously added all of the "I don't
knows" to the group of responders for the death penalty, 61.5% vs. 38.5%,
there are still too many against the death penalty in this example for the
law to have any hope of passing.
That said, we can calculate the reliability of the figures (the theoretical
margin of error) we have available with mathematical equations. (One can
use a calculator if one doesn't know the equations off-hand.) When I plug
the numbers (2,811 for the sample size of "questions marked as answers" in
the population of 13,268 "questions that could be marked by the OP") into
the "Margin of Error Calculator" on the following Web page, it comes out to
+/- 1.64% theoretical margin of error, with a confidence level of 95%,
meaning this sample size is sufficient for most purposes:
http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/moe.html
If you don't think a confidence level of 95% is high enough to be certain
that any conclusions can be drawn from the data, then you can require a
higher level by using another calculator, such as the one on the following
Web page:
http://www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html
If you plug in 2% acceptable margin of error (at the top), 98 for the
confidence level (down at the bottom right corner), you only need a sample
size of 2,696 (so our sample has more than enough), but if we wanted a 99%
confidence level, then we would need a larger sample of at least 3,160. We
only have a sample large enough for a maximum 98.3% confidence level for the
past three months' questions. (We can use a longer period of time, but I
figure we should deal with a manageable time period that can even out any
short-term anomolies, such as everyone being off for the holidays or all the
MVP's lounging at the Summit.) Therefore, if we use at least a three month
period, we have a statistically significant count of which replies the
questioners think are answers to their questions.
So for a fair calculation of your actual success rate in having your replies
marked as answers, my advice is to avoid the assumptions listed above. And
realize that there's some luck involved because some people refuse to mark
answers no matter how fabulous the responses are. I laugh at one guy every
time I see his name in the newsgroups, because he's here for one thing, and
one thing only, so don't get in his way: ;-)
Please note that the guy was already signed in, so instead of clicking on
either of the "Yes" or "No" buttons for "Did this post answer your
question?" he posted a reply to explain why he wouldn't bother, which takes
much longer and is a lot more trouble than just clicking on a button. And
since he didn't mark a reply, if anyone else has the same exact question, he
won't find it in the answer database because the thread has since expired
off the server, so he'll post the question again and wait for someone else
to post the same answer again.
And you can say that people can always find it in Google Groups, but look
closely and count how many different ways Google mangled that thread, like
losing a post and scrambling the order in which the messages were posted, so
you have to expand each post's options and jump from post to post based upon
the time posted, not the vertical sequential order of the thread's posts.
(Maybe Google will fix this and make me a liar, but I've seen this enough
times that I'll complain about it.)
> These figures do not change my opinion that the number of posts marked as
> answers via Microsoft's web-based interface is not an accurate reflection
> of the poster's contribution.
I agree that a poster's actual contribution isn't just the number of posts
or the number of posts marked as answers, but the time, skills and knowledge
offered to others to help them solve problems. The number of questions
answered as indicated in Microsoft's Web newsreader reflects how many times
the questioner felt he'd received help and how often he took the time to
provide this feedback. So this is one method of measurement of the "degree
of helpfulness" in comparison to other posters in the newsgroups, with those
at the top of the list (higher numbers) being indicative as helpful more
often than those at the bottom of the list (lower numbers).
In that context, the records in Microsoft's Web newsreader reveal that Rick
B is one of the most helpful posters over the past 22 months, regardless of
his attitude in some of those posts. And he has plenty of good company.
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"Brendan Reynolds" <bren...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:uisVIGxV...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Stephen Lebans
regards to the MS NG issue, you yourself have stated that only around 20% of
the posts are marked. How can you possibly derive a corellation between the
two scenarios?
Gunny are you so relentless in establishing the credibility of the MS NG Web
interface? If you simply want to be nominated by your peers for the MVP
program then your time would be better spent in the NG's where 100% of your
peers would vote that you are a valued and knowledgeable resource. It is not
only myself that is "turned off" by your constant(your SIGLINE) attempt to
have users mark your posts as helpful.
Perhaps I am way off base in ascribing your ambitions towards the MVP
program. If so I apologize. If not, whether you admit it here or not,
perhaps you will at least consider what I have said.
Regardless, please keep posting to the NG's. There are very few people with
your product knowledge who take the time to help out the less knowledgeable.
I've said my piece, perhaps more than should have been said, but I've always
been like this.
--
Stephen Lebans
http://www.lebans.com
Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:uvhgos3V...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
david epsom dot com dot au
So this is a good way of counting who is burning to get the answer up first.
But not very good for counting who puts up the best answer.
Statistically, I accept that your numbers are a good estimate of who put up
the first answer to questions placed through the Microsoft Web Interface. It
is accepted that users using the MWI are less sophisticated than users using
other interfaces, so statistically, I accept that your numbers are a good
estimate of who put up the first answer to simple questions.
Obviously, with the number of unchecked answers, MVP's could bias the result
in any other direction.
I would be amazed if anyone with a serious interest in the news group
content would also like to spend time marking answers.
I think that if MS would like to MVP's to provide this free service, they
still need to work on the interface, to make it attractive to sophisticated
users.
Actually, never mind that: they need to start by just fixing it so that it
is not unbearably slow.
(david)
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:uvhgos3V...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Brendan Reynolds
Hi Gunny,
I'm afraid I remain unconvinced - but I do stand in awe of your tenacity on
the subject! I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on this
one. I wish you well.
--
Brendan Reynolds
Access MVP
"'69 Camaro" <ForwardZERO_SP...@Spameater.orgZERO_SPAM> wrote in
message news:uvhgos3V...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Frustrated
you may think you have solved some great mystery you are wrong. And....as
much as I would like to continue to debate this matter with you, I can't...or
else it may seem I too have little else to occupy my time.
"'69 Camaro" wrote:
> >> I resent my name being brought into this childness behavior.
>
> Ma'am, you can be resentful all you want and feign innocence, but your
> continued deception will continue to be pointed out.
>
> >> please check your facts
>
> Okay. Let's check the facts. You usually sign in as mdavis to post
> questions to the Access experts who generously answer your questions for
> you, but you made a mistake in the following thread, and Rick B reminded you
> about double-posting a question after you'd already received a response to
> your first question:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.access.security/browse_thread/thread/f400523750c18154/f813a768aa9d68e0?&hl=en#f813a768aa9d68e0
>
> Here's your first question on the topic that had already received a
> response:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.access.security/browse_thread/thread/1055c3bc21237333/bb624162b420aa8b?&hl=en#bb624162b420aa8b
>
> Rick was polite enough to you, but you didn't like being told that you were
> wrong, so you created a new .Net Passport for a new Microsoft Community user
> account, used Cat as the profile name, and then posted this message to
> publicly embarrass him while attempting to remain anonymous:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.access/browse_thread/thread/e8b0bef45fe59cac/373bfdeba57967d5?&hl=en#373bfdeba57967d5
>
> When you later returned to the thread and discovered that your usual
> identity had been found out, you signed back in to your mdavis .Net Passport
> account and changed the profile name to Frustrated, so that you wouldn't be
> recognized in the future and possibly be embarrassed for your failed attempt
> at deception and failure to put Rick in his place. You patted yourself on
> the back for being so clever, and then you went home for the day. When you
> came back to work again this morning at Kinetic Concepts, you discovered
> your ruse had been revealed yet again, so you decided to claim innocence and
> try to redirect the spotlight elsewhere -- anywhere but at the guilty party:
> you.
>
> > And since I have no problem being rude
> > . . . . Grow up.
>
> Thank you for admitting that you believe it's okay for _you_ to be rude, but
> it's not okay for others to be. You may try to change the subject and
> demand that others behave when you, yourself, have not, but you won't
> succeed. The subject is still your dishonesty and how you tried to publicly
> embarrass Rick -- and still haven't gotten away with it.
>
> > so the fact that I show having 40 posts is,
> > well, not a revelation.
>
> You didn't understand what you were being shown, so here's the revelation
> for you. Expand the threads on the following Web page, which reveals the
> records from the database search on _your_ Microsoft Community user account:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx?author=Frustrated&email=Frustrated%40discussions.microsoft.com&cid=de3b09e6-fe61-4330-b7cb-06d6ddcc4892&guid=&sloc=en-us&dg=microsoft.public.access&lang=en&cr=US
>
> Do you notice a black triangle in the left margin pointing to each of the
> mdavis and Frustrated posts in each of the threads, and _only_ to those
> posts? Those triangles point to all of the names that have been used in the
> profile assigned to the same .Net Passport user account shown in that
> database search, which is currently using Frustrated as the profile name --
> as revealed by clicking on the name of the author of those particular posts
> in the right hand pane, even the ones that were authored by mdavis before
> the name change.
>
> Let me spell it out for you. It doesn't matter what the current profile
> name is, because the database will show the posts made with that profile and
> reveal the profile name at the time of the post. And it doesn't matter that
> you created a new .Net Passport as "Cat" to post an anonymous slap to Rick's
> face, because we still knew it was you posting under a different name and
> even pointed this out to you in one of the threads.
>
> No matter what you do, you'll be caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
> We can see it's you. Does this clarify things for you, ma'am?
>
> >> and leave me out of the games.
>
> It's your own efforts that brought you here, because you don't like being
> told, yet again, that you were wrong. You can come clean and offer an
> apology to Rick B or risk that all 7,500 employees at Kinetic Concepts get
> plonked by the Access experts who avoid dishonest people, especially the
> ones who try to prove that they are more clever -- and do it rather badly.
> The choice is yours. Since, as you say, you post questions to this
> newsgroup all the time, I'm sure you'll make the right choice.
>
> Oh, did I mention that if you use a different Web newsreader than
> Microsoft.com's, we can still see it's you posting the question? Or would
> you rather take the time to get training and experience in Access so that
> you don't need an Access expert's help? Or would you rather be using Oracle
> development tools to interface your company's Oracle databases, instead of
> Access?
>
> Or would you rather we just have Aaron Kempf answer all of your future
> Access questions? He can help you with all of your Excel spreadsheets, too.
> Just ask him.
>
> Have a nice day, ma'am.
> Gunny
>
> See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
> See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
> http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
> info.
>
>
> "Frustrated" <Frust...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:C7859070-E33E-4202...@microsoft.com...
> > And since I have no problem being rude just let me add that I post
> > questions
> > to this newsgroup all the time, so the fact that I show having 40 posts
> > is,
> > well, not a revelation. Grow up.
> >
> > "Frustrated" wrote:
> >
> >> I resent my name being brought into this childness behavior. Camaro '69
> >> please check your facts and leave me out of the games.
> >>
> >> "Cat" wrote:
> >>
> >> > I do not see you offer much help, but you are the first person to
> >> > attack when
> >> > someone posts a question in the wrong forum or makes some other
> >> > insignificant
> >> > mistake!
>
>
>
Rick Brandt
>
> Hi Gunny,
>
> I'm afraid I remain unconvinced - but I do stand in awe of your tenacity on
> the subject! I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
> I wish you well.
I agree with you Brendan. People in these groups should be well aware that
poorly sampled data is worse than no data in most cases. (GIGO) :-)
--
I don't check the Email account attached
to this message. Send instead to...
RBrandt at Hunter dot com
'69 Camaro
I have been reminded about another thread where young Hugh Betcha went
ballistic, and I have considered, "Would it have killed me to have given
mdavis some slack?"
No. Of course not.
Let's wipe the slate clean, and you can post your questions under any name
you'd like and I will not reply with a link to this thread as a reminder of
your conduct. And ma'am, I apologize for my conduct. I can't speak for
anyone else on whether or not they, too, will wipe the slate clean, but from
my experience I can say that the people who frequent these halls are not
only extremely knowledgeable, they are extremely generous, too.
I'd like to clear up an important point, though. You requested that I check
the facts. I did, and I reported them here where you would have an
opportunity to correct me. Someone suggested that it was an invasion of
your privacy to have disclosed your ISP, which is currently the company you
work for. To clarify, with few exceptions one is not entitled to privacy of
information after she has publicly disclosed that information, which you
did, ma'am, when you posted via the Microsoft Online Community's Web
newsreader. One's ISP is not one of those exceptions. (Remember that check
box "I agree" that you had to mark before you could post your first message?
The text preceding that check box explained that you were publicly
disclosing information to UseNet, and listed that information. Obviously,
you agreed, or you couldn't have posted any messages using Microsoft's Web
newsreader.)
I have spent much of my life in the South, and I can say that the ladies in
Texas are the most gracious. I know that you will reconsider the situation
that prompted this thread and grant Rick some slack, too.
Again, my apologies ma'am, and please have a nice day.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/expert_contributors2.html for contact
info.
"Frustrated" <Frust...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9B1BDC84-3811-4F13...@microsoft.com...