Puzzling Americans
Wayne-I-M
(MikeCCC ??)
Can someone explain the difference to between Happy Holidays and Happy
Christmas.
I placed a welcome timed screen on our 5 DB's to say happy christmas and I
had a number of mails (all from USA) to say it should be happy holidays.
Why? My holdays next year are in August (going to Spain)
Some of my friends are not christians and they still say happy christmas
becuase it "is" christmas in the same way as I will say happy new year on Feb
18 in 2007 to any chinese people
Just thought I would ask
--
Buon Natale, Happy Chritmas.
Wayne
Manchester, England.
Scusate,ma il mio Inglese fa schiffo :-)
Percio se non ci siamo capiti, mi mandate un
messagio e provero di spiegarmi meglio.
Douglas J. Steele
other countries) who feel it is inappropriate to wish Merry Christmas
anymore, since a sizable percentage of the population doesn't celebrate
Christmas, or celebrates something instead of Christmas. Because of these
"political correctness" zealots, trees have been erected, removed and
reerected in many public places. (I've also seen discussions saying "Happy
Holidays" may not be appropriate either, since Holiday is derived from Holy
Day, and it's not a Holy Day for some. Proponents of that argument seem to
prefer "Seasonal Greetings")
Of course, their comments could also have been derived from the fact that in
North America, the vast majority who do celebrate Christmas use "Merry
Christmas", not "Happy Christmas".
In any case, Wayne, please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit,
my wish for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, politically
correct, non-addictive, low stress, gender-neutral celebration of the winter
solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the
religious persuasion of your choice, as well as the secular practices of
your choice, but with full respect for the religious/secular persuasions
and/or
traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular
traditions at all.
And further, please accept my wish for a fiscally successful, personally
fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the
generally accepted calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the
calendar of choice of other cultures whose contribution to our diverse
society has helped make this country great (not to imply that my country is
necessarily greater than any other country, and without regard to the race,
creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, veteran status or
sexual orientation of the wisher, wishee or their third party
beneficiaries).
These wishes are limited to the customary and usual good tidings for a
period of approximately one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent
holiday greeting, whichever comes first.
Use of the term "Holiday" herein is not intended to, nor shall it be
considered to be, limited to Judeo-Christian celebrations or observances,
nor to such activities of any organized or ad hoc religious community group,
individual or belief (or lack thereof). In particular, the word "holiday" is
used herein without reference to its etymology.
Note: By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This
greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal, and is revocable ab
initio at the sole discretion of the wisher at any time, for any reason or
for no reason.
This greeting is freely transferable provided that there is no alteration to
the original greeting text. Any transfer is to be at the risk of the
transferor who, by making such transfer, thereby agrees to hold the wishee
harmless from any and all adverse consequences resulting from such transfer.
This greeting implies no promise by the wisher to actually take any action
or fail to take any action to implement any of the wishes for the wishee
her/himself or others, or responsibility for the consequences which may
arise from the implementation or non-implementation of same.
This greeting is void where prohibited by law, custom or policy and is
offered irrespective of any card, hard copy greeting or embarrassing
self-indulgent letter summarizing achievements in 2006, however mendacious,
which may or may not have been purveyed by myself or any member of my
extended family.
Best (sorry, reasonably endeavored) Wishes.
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)
"Wayne-I-M" <Way...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2FAC7A4F-34D5-449F...@microsoft.com...
FilemakerPro_Developer
I think the English phrase is to be happy about something and Merry is a
wish for some one to enjoy himself. There is a subtle difference. So Happy
Holiday or Merry Christmas would be correct.
Since Christmas is a religious holiday then some Americans could be offended
since it does not include their religion.
--
Janis
Rick B
secularists have taken offense at that and felt that Christians were pushing
their beliefs on them. The fact that they don't hesitate to take that day
off from work is kind of odd though :-p
This year, a couple of talk show hosts have pointed out that businesses have
resumed saying "Merry Christmas" this year instead of "Happy Holidays". I
think they realized that trying to bend to please a very small minority was
not the way to win customers. We have been saying "Merry Christmas" for
many many generations and you never got law suits from those who were not
Christians. It seems that these days everyone just has to try to make a
fuss. Everyone wants to be 100% politically correct. Those of us with more
traditional beliefs simply ignore that and go on about our business.
Anyway, Merry Christmas! Happy Hanukkah! Seasons Greetings. Whatever your
beliefs, enjoy the holidays and spend time reflecting on what's important to
you and your family.
--
Rick B
"Wayne-I-M" <Way...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2FAC7A4F-34D5-449F...@microsoft.com...
Ken Sheridan
Brilliant!
I think I'm probably in trouble, though. I did wish someone here, who I
suspect may live somewhere your side of the pond, a Happy Christmas this
morning. I've received Christmas cards from Jewish and Hindu friends, and,
despite being an atheist myself, have sent a vast number (alright, I confess,
my wife sends them, but she's even more ungodly than I am) I shall continue
to wish people a Happy Christmas. Its odd that Merry Christmas should be
favoured, though, as to me this would seem to emphasise the bacchanalian
nature of the festival rather than the religious one. Knowing you to be such
a beer and wine aficionado I suspect Christmas might be pretty bacchanalian
in the Steele household<G>.
Ken Sheridan
Stafford, England
Dave F
This question reminds me of something a Swiss friend asked while visiting in
New York: "What topics should I avoid talking about with Americans?"
To which I responded: religion, politics, the Middle East, differences
between Europe and America, and, basically anything other than American
football and baseball. And even those two are dangerous."
We Americans are too easily offended.
Dave
--
Brevity is the soul of wit.
Joseph Meehan
> Sorry - nothing at all to do with access - unless you are networked
> with us (MikeCCC ??)
>
> Can someone explain the difference to between Happy Holidays and Happy
> Christmas.
Well, one would mean Happy Christmas and Happy New Year. Frankly I use
Merry Christmas.
Lately there has been some debate about the political correctness of
using Christmas thus the holidays thing.
Me I also use Happy Hanukkah as well.
>
> I placed a welcome timed screen on our 5 DB's to say happy christmas
> and I had a number of mails (all from USA) to say it should be happy
> holidays.
>
> Why? My holdays next year are in August (going to Spain)
>
> Some of my friends are not christians and they still say happy
> christmas becuase it "is" christmas in the same way as I will say
> happy new year on Feb 18 in 2007 to any chinese people
>
> Just thought I would ask
--
Joseph Meehan
Dia 's Muire duit
Jeff Boyce
Now that's just way out of line ... (wait for it ...) <G!>
Jeff Boyce
"Dave F" <Da...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7ADDF995-799C-4A22...@microsoft.com...
Tony Toews
Bah humbug.
Scrooge
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Wayne-I-M
non-politically correct industry there is. It all comes from the saying –
you got yourself up here, you get yourself down. So I have no fear in saying
Buon Natale e Felice Anno Nuovo to everyone. (or even vacanza felice for the
PC people).
But whatever faith you are, I personally wish you a happy Christmas and I
would hope that you will wish me a happy Bayram or happy Diwali, happy
Nirvana or happy Baisakhi , happy Ramadan, happy Hanukkah. Or even for the
pagans a very happy yule.
And may I apologise now for every drink induced thing I say or do over the
next few days to everyone in the Manchester UK area
To everyone on this forum – Happy Christmas
--
Buon Natale, Happy Chritmas.
Wayne
Manchester, England.
Scusate,ma il mio Inglese fa schiffo :-)
Percio se non ci siamo capiti, mi mandate un
messagio e provero di spiegarmi meglio.
Steve Schapel
I am deeply offended by your post. What do you mean "winter solstice"?
Eh? Where I live, Mate, it's summer solstice. This is a blatant case
of rampant hemispherism!
<g>
--
Steve Schapel, Microsoft Access MVP
Ken Sheridan
Americans, I ask you, see how you even claim to be superior to everyone else
at taking offence<G>. You have plenty of competition believe me. I've
offended a Scots barman by telling him I preferred brandy to whiskey; a Welsh
mountaineer by mispronouncing Tryfan ( its a mountain in North Wales and
pronounced 'True van'); an Italian waiter by speaking Italian (I think he
thought I was implying that he didn't speak perfect English); innumerable
Canadians/New Zealanders (are you listing Doug?) by thinking they were
Americans/Australians. I could go on.
Now, being Irish myself, we never take offence of course, being a peaceful,
tolerant and altogether amiable nation. And anyone who says we are not will
feel the blunt end of a Guinness bottle where it hurts!
Ken Sheridan
Stafford, England
Dave F
Dave
--
Brevity is the soul of wit.
Ricter
Ricter
Jeff C
States Of America celebrate Christmas for the traditional reason ie: the
birth of Christ. Of those 15% who do not, many are business people of some
type who benefit from the Christmas gift giving, so they too celebrate
Christmas for their own reasons.
That a celebration, going back 100's and thousands of years involving
millions of people, can be uprooted because one or two say they feel offended
could only happen in a place whose leadership has lost it's mind and all
sense of what was it's backbone.
Merry Christmas to all.
--
Jeff C
Live Well .. Be Happy In All You Do
David W. Fenton
news:#7PAqgeJ...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
> There are a number of people in both the US and Canada (and
> doubtlessly other countries) who feel it is inappropriate to wish
> Merry Christmas anymore, since a sizable percentage of the
> population doesn't celebrate Christmas, or celebrates something
> instead of Christmas. Because of these "political correctness"
> zealots, trees have been erected, removed and reerected in many
> public places. (I've also seen discussions saying "Happy Holidays"
> may not be appropriate either, since Holiday is derived from Holy
> Day, and it's not a Holy Day for some. Proponents of that argument
> seem to prefer "Seasonal Greetings")
Happy holidays, season's greetings, whatever.
I am shocked that people don't think about the fact that these
wishes are for the people they are being extended to, not for the
person doing the "wishing."
I first started to have to think about this in college, when I sent
out "Christmas cards" to friends at school. Turns out some of them
were Jewish (and some I didn't know), so I chose cards with "Happy
Holidays" or "Seasons Greetings" instead of "Merry Christmas" in the
hope that I wouldn't offend anyone, but would still be able to
extend my wish for a good holiday season.
I celebrated Christmas, myself, but choosing the wording of my cards
carefully was no denial of Christmas -- it was just an
acknowledgment that I lived with people who had beliefs different
than my own, and reflected the fact that I didn't want to offend
those people.
A couple of years ago I was at a client just before the Jewish high
holy days, and one of the people there said "Would it be appropriate
to wish you a Happy New Year?" I answered "I'm not Jewish, but I
appreciate the sentiment!"
This was a different situation, as it was a time of year that not
everyone celebrates a holiday, so there was no inclusive greeting
available. But he didn't just wish me "Happy New Year" but
elliptically asked if I was Jewish (I'm often mistaken for Jewish
because of my big nose, but most Jewish people don't make that
mistake, since it's big but not a "Jewish" kind of big :). He was
careful not to offend and I appreciated the sentiment.
I resent the accusation that anyone who cares about the beliefs of
others and simply wants to avoid offending them is somehow doing it
just to be "politically correct." I live in a diverse world and I
don't believe in imposing my own cultural practices on others, and
that's all that's reflected in my choice of holiday cards without
"Merry Christmas" on them. Saying that I (or anyone else) is doing
it from some ill-defined sense of "political correctness" is an
accusation of complete insincerity, implying that instead of
actually caring about other people and choosing one's greetings
appropriately, one is instead simply caving to peer pressure or
something.
I find that implicit accusation of insincerity highly offensive. I
know you don't mean it, though, but you should consider the meaning
of throwing around the term "politically correct," as it has only
ever been used in modern discourse as a stick for the right to beat
up on the left, simply because the right feels threatened by
diversity.
At least, in the US that's the case.
> Of course, their comments could also have been derived from the
> fact that in North America, the vast majority who do celebrate
> Christmas use "Merry Christmas", not "Happy Christmas".
Seems to me to be the obvious conclusion there!
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Wayne-I-M
I am sorrow if my light hearted question in anyway led to your being
offended. I am sure that everyone who answered also did so in a light
hearted way.
Where I come from and where I live now it is the costom to celebrate this
time of year and so I really hope you will not feel too upset and simply feel
able to join in with the rest of the replyers to this post and wish everyone
happyness.
Tony Toews
>Canadians ARE Americans. They just don't know it yet.
GAAACCCCKKKKK!!!!!!
Now them's fighting words!
Tony <chuckle>
'69 Camaro
>
> GAAACCCCKKKKK!!!!!!
>
> Now them's fighting words!
Why do think there's no wall to keep the Americans out? It's because we're
_all_ Americans! ;-)
Gunny
"Tony Toews" <tto...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:v9doo25t9nbbm9ag5...@4ax.com...
'69 Camaro
I don't know why, but I often find myself in the middle of this argument.
Gunny
"Ricter" <Ric...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:11938768-1141-4C9B...@microsoft.com...
Tony Toews
wrote:
>> GAAACCCCKKKKK!!!!!!
>>
>> Now them's fighting words!
>
>Why do think there's no wall to keep the Americans out? It's because we're
>_all_ Americans! ;-)
Nah, it's because Americans think it's cold and snowy up here. And us
socialist Canucks don't want to go down there were it's too hot.
Tony
David W. Fenton
news:FBF328AC-F75B-4B2F...@microsoft.com:
> I am sorrow if my light hearted question in anyway led to your
> being offended. I am sure that everyone who answered also did so
> in a light hearted way.
>
> Where I come from and where I live now it is the costom to
> celebrate this time of year and so I really hope you will not feel
> too upset and simply feel able to join in with the rest of the
> replyers to this post and wish everyone happyness.
Don't use the term "politically correct" and then I won't be
offended.
And don't assume that just because you don't understand why someone
uses certain terms that those terms are stupid.
JK
With due respect!
The fact that those of us who disagree with your "politically correct"
approach, is neither a cause for an offence, nor does it means that we don't
understand it. You are free to be politically correct if you so choose the
same way I can be politically incorrect.
As a non-Christian living in a country where the majority of the population
are Christians, I quite enjoy the Christmas spirit, albeit I don't celebrate
it. I have no problem greeting or being greeted "Merry Christmas". More so,
any "Happy Holiday" (or such like) cards I get, go straight to the bin.
I truly resent the PC brigade deciding on my behalf that I must to be
offended by "Merry Christmas", well I don't!, whether you would like me to
or not.
There is a greater cause to feel threaten by the PC Brigade than the other
way around. The PC Brigade, the "Thoughts Police" in my book, is based on
totally misguided premises. The notion of "Diversity", "Multi-Culturalizm"
and alike are nothing less than "Cultural Apartheid".
Merry Christmas
Jacob
"David W. Fenton" <XXXu...@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns98A18FF8B8CA0f9...@127.0.0.1...
JK
:-))))
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:%237PAqge...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
JK
Don't you worry about the US of A (only). The PC Brigade is live and well
downunder in the land of Oz.
How about the word "partner"?
Do they mean my business partner, sex partner or my wife?
They could be three different persons, you know :-)
Happy Holiday to you and your partner <g>
Jacob
"Wayne-I-M" <Way...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2FAC7A4F-34D5-449F...@microsoft.com...
'69 Camaro
I have news for them. It's cold and snowy down here, too! (At least it will be
in a few weeks.)
> And us
> socialist Canucks don't want to go down there were it's too hot.
If you bring a keg of Doug's beer with you, you'll never notice. :-)
Gunny
"Tony Toews" <tto...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:i2goo2l2t3g5f7ggs...@4ax.com...
Tony Toews
>How about the word "partner"?
>Do they mean my business partner, sex partner or my wife?
>They could be three different persons, you know :-)
<chuckle> Or six different persons. In whatever combination you
choose.
>Happy Holiday to you and your partner <g>
Bah humbug.
Douglas J. Steele
message news:ezillakJ...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> And us
>> socialist Canucks don't want to go down there were it's too hot.
>
> If you bring a keg of Doug's beer with you, you'll never notice. :-)
Hey! What makes you think I'm willing to share? <g>
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no private e-mails, please)
'69 Camaro
> Hey! What makes you think I'm willing to share? <g>
You're very generous and you wouldn't allow a fellow Canadian to leave town
without knowing what he's _really_ coming back for, Doug's famous beer. :-)
Gunny
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:efckBpqJ...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
strive4peace
very clever!
Have merry, happy times today and always ;)
Warm Regards,
Crystal
*
(: have an awesome day :)
*
MVP Access
*
David F Cox
David F. Cox
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:%237PAqge...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> --
> Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
> http://I.Am/DougSteele
> (no e-mails, please!)
Douglas J. Steele
anyhow.
But please see whether you can address Steve's complaint that "winter
solstice holiday" is "rampant hemispherism"! <g>
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no private e-mails, please)
"David F Cox" <nos...@please.com> wrote in message
news:%23WIjQGt...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
David W. Fenton
news:u9WmsAjJ...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
> The fact that those of us who disagree with your "politically
> correct" approach, is neither a cause for an offence, nor does it
> means that we don't understand it. You are free to be politically
> correct if you so choose the same way I can be politically
> incorrect.
Oh, fuck you. I'm not "politically correct" because my use of
generic holiday greetings does not come from an insincere bending to
the currents of politics, but from my sincere efforts to not offend
others accidentally.
> As a non-Christian living in a country where the majority of the
> population are Christians, I quite enjoy the Christmas spirit,
> albeit I don't celebrate it. I have no problem greeting or being
> greeted "Merry Christmas". More so, any "Happy Holiday" (or such
> like) cards I get, go straight to the bin.
Then I'd say you're a complete asshole.
> I truly resent the PC brigade deciding on my behalf that I must to
> be offended by "Merry Christmas",
That's YOUR PROBLEM. Nothing I wrote said you should feel offended.
All I said was that the reason I'm saying "Happy Holidays" is to be
sure I don't offend someone, because I'm concerned about other
people, and not because I'm worried about "political correctness."
You've turned the whole thing on its head, and, once again, accused
me of complete insincerity.
The reason I don't say "Merry Christmas" generically is because I
believe it's the RIGHT THING TO DO, in my heart of hearts. It has
nothing to do with any outside rigid political beliefs -- it comes
from inside me.
> well I don't!, whether you would like me to
> or not.
This petulance is what drives me crazy. You seem to insist on
wanting to be offended by something.
The fact that you wouldn't mind being wished "Merry Christmas" is
not the point. The point is that I don't use the phrase in order to
be sure I don't accidentally offend someone for whom it *is* an
issue.
> There is a greater cause to feel threaten by the PC Brigade than
> the other way around. The PC Brigade, the "Thoughts Police" in my
> book, is based on totally misguided premises. The notion of
> "Diversity", "Multi-Culturalizm" and alike are nothing less than
> "Cultural Apartheid".
That's all so much bullshit, because it has ZILCH to do with my
motivations for choosing holiday greetings. I'm doing it to be
POLITE and CONSIDERATE, something that it seems to me is completely
lost in today's culture.
Brendan Reynolds
complaint, but wouldn't be very funny. How about "winter or summer solstice,
dependent on which hemisphere you happen to be in, and with all due regard
and respect for the views and preferences of any other person in any other
hemisphere"?
--
Brendan Reynolds
Access MVP
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:eKI$TLtJHH...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
strive4peace
Warm Regards,
Crystal
*
(: have an awesome day :)
*
MVP Access
*
???
???? ????? "Tony Toews" <tto...@telusplanet.net> ?? ?????
???????:o77oo255s6njlv6gt...@4ax.com...
> Wayne-I-M <Way...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> Bah humbug.
>
> Scrooge
KindaWiser-dot-com
many other religions as well. The safe salutation to use is:
"Enjoy your mid-Winter break!"
If some of your clients are from the Southern hemisphere then perhaps you
might say,
"Enjoy your seasonal break!"
The Muslim calendar, about which I know v little, doesn't seem to come round
exactly once a year. I think this is because it is lunar-based, i.e. based on
the moon, so sometimes they have Ramadan and Eid (the latter being rather
like our Christmas) in the Summer, and sometimes in the Winter.
In practice, we all break just after the Winter Solstice, it's traditional
in Britain and goes way back to Pagan times, before Christianity arrived
here. Apparently, 'Yule' (the Pagan term) was the last opportunity for
families to get together before older members of the family died off, which
they often did (and still do) in the coldest months of the year, January and
February.
Nowadays the possibility of deaths in the family is less of a factor, but I
think people still find that both the transition from the warmth of Summer to
the chill of Winter, and the start of a new academic year, have been
physically and emotionally taxing, and feel the need for a break at around
this time.
Muslims are not usually offended if you say "Merry Christmas" (unless they
are extremists, which most are not), they will probably be having a family
get-together themselves along with everyone else. But if you say "Winter
break" I think they are especially pleased, because you are acknowledging the
fact that their religion is different from your own.
Owl
I laughed my head off (and am struggling to fit it back on again) all the way
through every single reply, not only your delightful one Douglas, but also at
how angry people got over what seems to me such a silly thing. I live in
South Africa where we have 11 official languages (there should be 13 because
Khoi and San are not included), and ANY South African would be absolutely
gob-smacked at the seriousness of this conversation (other than yours,
Douglas which they would all, I am sure, find very funny). Here, ANYBODY
loves having anyone else saying Happy Anything to them, and like me, wouldn't
believe that such a conversation as this, actually took place, and like me
would not be able to stop laughing, just as I haven't yet . . . .
"Douglas J. Steele" wrote: