Parents don't see a crisis over science and math
stonej
Which seems to be contrary to a recent Michigan survey that said most
parents
want tougher standards. Who knows.
J.D. Baldwin
The problem we face is that most students really won't need a strong,
rigorous math and science program. The world, after all, needs ditch
diggers, too. But if we don't build a really solid math and science
program in our educational system, that small proportion of students
who really ought to be getting that background simply won't be exposed
to it.
Basically, I think Americans need to get over some of our quainter
notions of egalitarianism. If the U.S. is going to remain competitive
in a global economy, we're going to need scientists and engineers
doing cutting-edge work in molecular biology, aerospace, information
technology, etc. That means that by senior year of high school they
ought to be mastering basic calc and a fairly advanced chemistry
and/or computer curriculum, so they can go on to a rigorous university
program that will take them to the next level.
I'm talking here about maybe the top 5% of students -- *maybe* 10%.
But the national conversation on this, such as it is, is the WRONG
conversation. It seems to be about getting more math and science
exposure for every single student in the system. That's just crazy,
and I think the parents and students surveyed in the CNN article
referenced above sense that intuitively. There is no practical reason
whatever to teach calculus to someone who's going to be working in
real estate as a career. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong
with people who work in real estate, just that it's a waste of scarce
resources to try to teach them how to solve differential equations,
and it's insane to hold back the super-achievers to the level of
students who are striving to hit the minimum standard and graduate.
I'm not saying I wouldn't *like* to see everyone in America capable of
solving differential equations. That would be a great result if we
had any hope of achieving it. But we need to let go of these
fantasies about raising the minimum standards -- those aren't the
problem. We need to focus on raising the *maximum*. That means
identifying and tracking promising students into special math- and
science-intensive programs. And honoring and rewarding them
commensurately for all that extra work. That, after all, is exactly
what the Chinese and Indians have been doing for a generation, and is
probably to a great deal responsible for their emergent success. If
we don't get off our asses, their success will end up coming at our
expense.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / bal...@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jayson Davis
> In the previous article, stonej <sto...@mail.lib.msu.edu> wrote:
>
>>http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/02/15/science.math.ap/index.html
>>
>>Which seems to be contrary to a recent Michigan survey that said
>>most parents want tougher standards. Who knows.
>
>
> The problem we face is that most students really won't need a strong,
> rigorous math and science program. The world, after all, needs ditch
> diggers, too. But if we don't build a really solid math and science
> program in our educational system, that small proportion of students
> who really ought to be getting that background simply won't be exposed
> to it.
>
They don't need calculus, but they *do* need strong math skills. Just a
good understanding of basic algebra would help these people survive in a
world where business is looking to soak them for every penny. Of
course, strong math skills would probably mean a reduction in profits
from casinos and mortgage refinancing pitchmen.
Furthermore, I think there's a lot of students who would excel at math
and science if they had teachers that were worth a damn. I pretty much
failed high school algebra -- twice. The horrible teaching experience
caused me to shut down on all math topics for the remainder of the high
school years. Not until I went into college and started from scratch
did I finally learn and excel at it. If my high school math teacher
only knew that I went through all the calculus required for an
engineering degree, because this woman had written me off as hopeless.
SHE was the problem!
My neighbor had a kid in 4th grade that couldn't read. The teacher's
response (she was just a few years from retirement) "well, some kids are
just not cut out to be good readers". Huh?? The parents dumped $5000
into Sylvan and they brought the kid up to 8th grade level in 9 months.
If we want strong math and science in the schools, let us start with
some better teachers who are proven at what they do. It's time to
strong-arm the NEA into accepting that every job in this country
requires performance reviews and teachers are not any different. Those
that survive the bloodletting will be better paid because of it.
stonej
some better teachers who are proven at what they do. It's time to
strong-arm the NEA into accepting that every job in this country
requires performance reviews and teachers are not any different. Those
that survive the bloodletting will be better paid because of it.
A big problem is that there is an "us vs. them" attitude between the
teachers and the
school boards of many districts around the country. The teachers feel
dumped on by school
district officials over a number of issues so a "bunker" mentality of
protecting all teachers
regardless of skills gets ingrained into the labor contracts.
My mother was a schoolteacher and she told me horror stories of certain
teachers that
never should have been allowed into the classroom in the first place,
put forth only
a minimum of effort but are allowed to keep on teaching until
retirement.
I remember a 10th grade history teacher that was so incredibly
worthless it
would make you cry.
So what is the answer? I'm not sure. It won't be easy to change
ingrained systems.
J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, Jayson Davis <eclecti...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> > The problem we face is that most students really won't need a
> > strong, rigorous math and science program. The world, after all,
> > needs ditch diggers, too. But if we don't build a really solid math
> > and science program in our educational system, that small proportion
> > of students who really ought to be getting that background simply
> > won't be exposed to it.
>
>
> They don't need calculus, but they *do* need strong math skills.
> Just a good understanding of basic algebra would help these people
> survive in a world where business is looking to soak them for every
> penny. Of course, strong math skills would probably mean a
> reduction in profits from casinos and mortgage refinancing pitchmen.
Not to mention the state lottery. But wait -- that money goes into
education! So we'd just be using the system to screw itself! My head
hurts.
We're talking about two separate problems. I don't think it would be
real resource-intensive to give all students a good grounding in basic
math skills for living their lives without getting clipped at every
turn. At the same time, it's a more intractable problem, mainly
because we live in a culture where learning and intelligence are
ridiculed. The Chinese and Indians live in a culture where they are
revered, honored and rewarded. We are so screwed.
I think it would be pretty straightforward to raise the minimum bar a
bit, but the educrats seem to be focused on getting more students into
AP or AP-like course work. I'd like to see that kind of thing as
close to universally available as possible, sure, but I'm more
interested in tracking the really talented students into these
programs and focusing on them than in trying to bring everyone up to
that level, because that's just going to be a gigantic waste of time
and money.
> Furthermore, I think there's a lot of students who would excel at
> math and science if they had teachers that were worth a damn. I
> pretty much failed high school algebra -- twice. The horrible
> teaching experience caused me to shut down on all math topics for
> the remainder of the high school years. Not until I went into
> college and started from scratch did I finally learn and excel at
> it. If my high school math teacher only knew that I went through
> all the calculus required for an engineering degree, because this
> woman had written me off as hopeless. SHE was the problem!
I expect this is a pretty common problem. I've observed a little of
it in my own academic career.
> If we want strong math and science in the schools, let us start with
> some better teachers who are proven at what they do. It's time to
> strong-arm the NEA into accepting that every job in this country
> requires performance reviews and teachers are not any different.
> Those that survive the bloodletting will be better paid because of
> it.
Preach it, brother.