[RFC] New category proposal, i18n
Thomas Abthorpe
home, physical or virtual, for ports that are i18n or l10n based.
While researching the topic, I found the two terms, i18n and l10n, are often
used interchangeably, and while either word could be used as the new category
name, I chose i18 because it seems to keep in line with the efforts of
freebsd-i18n team.
Currently in the ports tree there are about 220 ports with i18n or l10n as
part of their package name. Of these ports 159 are in the misc category,
virtually all of which are related to KDE or Qt.
Should this new category come to being, the self identified ports in misc
would get relocated. All other ports would simply be extended with the new
virtual category name.
Taking off my KDE hat, this new category could obviously be used by anybody
who is involved some sort of translation effort.
As per the Porters Handbook,
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/makefile-categories.html#PROPOSING-CATEGORIES,
I hereby open discussion on the matter. If there is enough interest, I will
pursue the matter further with portmgr@
Thank you for you time, attention and feedback.
Thomas
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Doug Barton
> I would like to propose a new ports category, i18n, it would become the new
> home, physical or virtual, for ports that are i18n or l10n based.
>
> While researching the topic, I found the two terms, i18n and l10n, are often
> used interchangeably, and while either word could be used as the new category
> name, I chose i18 because it seems to keep in line with the efforts of
> freebsd-i18n team.
While I (as an ignorant 'merican) would tend to agree with you that
the terms are close in meaning, my experience is that the people who
care about the differences _really_ care about them. Rather than have
FreeBSD appear to take a position on the debate I would suggest that
we use a term that is both neutral and more descriptive, like
"localization" or something similar.
That said I think that anything we can do to encourage localization as
a goal we should do.
> Currently in the ports tree there are about 220 ports with i18n or l10n as
> part of their package name. Of these ports 159 are in the misc category,
> virtually all of which are related to KDE or Qt.
>
> Should this new category come to being, the self identified ports in misc
> would get relocated. All other ports would simply be extended with the new
> virtual category name.
You've probably already covered this, but are you making a distinction
between ports that are used to _do_ localization-related tasks, and
ports that are localized versions of existing ports?
hth,
Doug
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Johan van Selst
--Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE
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Doug Barton wrote:
> > Should this new category come to being, the self identified ports in misc
> > would get relocated. All other ports would simply be extended with the new
> > virtual category name.
> You've probably already covered this, but are you making a distinction
> between ports that are used to _do_ localization-related tasks, and
> ports that are localized versions of existing ports?
I think that this is an important distinction; and personally I would
expect only the previous ports to go into this category. That is,
putting ports into categories primarily based on the functionality of a
port. For example when looking for a port like firefox-i18n, I'd expect
to find it in the www/ category, rather than an i18n/ subdir. But ports
like gettext or other localization tools could be in the i18n category.
Ciao,
Johan
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Thomas Abthorpe
Hash: SHA1
On June 19, 2009 02:50:12 am Doug Barton wrote:
> Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
> > I would like to propose a new ports category, i18n, it would become the
> > new home, physical or virtual, for ports that are i18n or l10n based.
> >
> > While researching the topic, I found the two terms, i18n and l10n, are
> > often used interchangeably, and while either word could be used as the
> > new category name, I chose i18 because it seems to keep in line with the
> > efforts of freebsd-i18n team.
>
> While I (as an ignorant 'merican) would tend to agree with you that
> the terms are close in meaning, my experience is that the people who
> care about the differences _really_ care about them. Rather than have
> FreeBSD appear to take a position on the debate I would suggest that
> we use a term that is both neutral and more descriptive, like
> "localization" or something similar.
It was my original thought to use localization as the category nane (and
certainly something I would still hear arguments for), localization *is*
l10n. While simply using internationalization seems misleading, the use of
i18n carries a more direct conveyance.
I posted an email to freebsd-i18n@ yesterday after posted this original
message. I asked interested parties to weigh in on the matter.
>
> That said I think that anything we can do to encourage localization as
> a goal we should do.
>
> > Currently in the ports tree there are about 220 ports with i18n or l10n
> > as part of their package name. Of these ports 159 are in the misc
> > category, virtually all of which are related to KDE or Qt.
> >
> > Should this new category come to being, the self identified ports in misc
> > would get relocated. All other ports would simply be extended with the
> > new virtual category name.
>
> You've probably already covered this, but are you making a distinction
> between ports that are used to _do_ localization-related tasks, and
> ports that are localized versions of existing ports?
It is my intention for ports that do localization related work would remain in
their existing category, and if appropriate we could add the new name to
CATEGORIES.
Identified i18n/l10n ports outside of the misc category, would remain in their
substantive cateory, and be extended to include the new category name. For
instance
www/dillo-i18n
www/drupal5-i18n
www/firefox-i18n
www/firefox3-i18n
www/zope-i18nlayer
would all remain in in www, then we would have the CATEGORIES include i18n (or
whatever)
>
>
> hth,
>
> Doug
Thomas
- --
Thomas Abthorpe | FreeBSD Committer
tabt...@FreeBSD.org | http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
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Thomas Abthorpe
Hash: SHA1
On June 19, 2009 03:07:53 am Johan van Selst wrote:
> Doug Barton wrote:
> > > Should this new category come to being, the self identified ports in
> > > misc would get relocated. All other ports would simply be extended with
> > > the new virtual category name.
> >
> > You've probably already covered this, but are you making a distinction
> > between ports that are used to _do_ localization-related tasks, and
> > ports that are localized versions of existing ports?
>
> I think that this is an important distinction; and personally I would
> expect only the previous ports to go into this category. That is,
> putting ports into categories primarily based on the functionality of a
> port. For example when looking for a port like firefox-i18n, I'd expect
> to find it in the www/ category, rather than an i18n/ subdir. But ports
> like gettext or other localization tools could be in the i18n category.
That is esseintally what I hope to achieve, i18n/l10n ports in misc get moved
to this new category, all others keep their original home, and extend their
CATEGORIES to include the new name.
Similarly gettext and other related tools could have their CATEGORIES updated
as well.
>
>
> Ciao,
> Johan
Thomas
- --
Thomas Abthorpe | FreeBSD Committer
tabt...@FreeBSD.org | http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
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Thomas Abthorpe
Hash: SHA1
On June 19, 2009 10:20:18 am Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
<snip>
> It was my original thought to use localization as the category nane (and
> certainly something I would still hear arguments for), localization *is*
> l10n. While simply using internationalization seems misleading, the use of
> i18n carries a more direct conveyance.
>
> I posted an email to freebsd-i18n@ yesterday after posted this original
> message. I asked interested parties to weigh in on the matter.
<snip>
This thread seems to have gone cold, so I am trying to breath a little more
life into it. I have received a lot of positive feedback off line.
I found this great article at the W3.org website,
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-i18n
To paraphrase a couple of key points
"Localization refers to the adaptation of a product, application or document
content to meet the language, cultural and other requirements of a specific
target market (a "locale")."
...
"Internationalization is the design and development of a product, application
or document content that enables easy localization for target audiences that
vary in culture, region, or language."
To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this, I stand by
my original proposal of i18n.
Thomas
- --
Thomas Abthorpe | FreeBSD Committer
tabt...@FreeBSD.org | http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
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Doug Barton
> To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this, I stand by
> my original proposal of i18n.
I have no objection to your reasoning, but continue to object to the
specific string. If you're going to go down this road then
"internationalization" would be the better choice.
Doug
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Chris Rees
> Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
>> To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this, I stand by
>> my original proposal of i18n.
>
> I have no objection to your reasoning, but continue to object to the
> specific string. If you're going to go down this road then
> "internationalization" would be the better choice.
>
> Doug
>
I would agree with Doug. We're in the days of tab-completion, and
typing 'in<TAB>' will suffice to get there. I for one *hate* numbers
in paths; it takes one's hand off the letters. Also, I had to look up
i18n to find out what it was... Categories should be immediately
descriptive.
Also, the French have to use Shift to type numbers; it's even more of
a pain for them!
Chris
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A: Top-posting.
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Thomas Abthorpe
> 2009/6/23 Doug Barton <do...@freebsd.org>:
>> Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
>>> To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this, I stand by
>>> my original proposal of i18n.
>>
>> I have no objection to your reasoning, but continue to object to the
>> specific string. If you're going to go down this road then
>> "internationalization" would be the better choice.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>
> I would agree with Doug. We're in the days of tab-completion, and
> typing 'in<TAB>' will suffice to get there. I for one *hate* numbers
> in paths; it takes one's hand off the letters. Also, I had to look up
> i18n to find out what it was... Categories should be immediately
> descriptive.
>
> Also, the French have to use Shift to type numbers; it's even more of
> a pain for them!
>
> Chris
>
>
You have struck a chord with numbers in the path, reminds me of the
pre-Xorg days with /usr/X11R6, not sure what I disliked more, the
capital letters or the numbers!
I hereby relent, and yield to the logic of the arguments placed before
me, I now agree that using internationalization for the category name
is a better idea.
Thanks for your persistence folks, the feedback is appreciated :)
Thomas
--
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tabt...@FreeBSD.org, http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
Alexey Shuvaev
> 2009/6/23 Chris Rees <uti...@googlemail.com>:
> > 2009/6/23 Doug Barton <do...@freebsd.org>:
> >> Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
stand by
> >>> my original proposal of i18n.
> >>
> >> I have no objection to your reasoning, but continue to object to the
> >> specific string. If you're going to go down this road then
> >> "internationalization" would be the better choice.
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >
> > I would agree with Doug. We're in the days of tab-completion, and
> > typing 'in<TAB>' will suffice to get there. I for one *hate* numbers
> > in paths; it takes one's hand off the letters. Also, I had to look up
> > i18n to find out what it was... Categories should be immediately
> > descriptive.
> >
> > Also, the French have to use Shift to type numbers; it's even more of
> > a pain for them!
> >
Unrelated problem.
head -50 test.c
kill -s KILL 46129
man 3 printf
mount /dev/da0a mnt/
I think you can't avoid using numbers in command-line.
BTW, numbers are much better than spaces or localized characters:
'=D0=9C=D0=BE=D0=B8 =D0=B4=D0=BE=D0=BA=D1=83=D0=BC=D0=B5=D0=BD=D1=82=D1=8B'=
( =3D=3D 'My Documents')
> > Chris
> >
> >
>=20
> You have struck a chord with numbers in the path, reminds me of the
> pre-Xorg days with /usr/X11R6, not sure what I disliked more, the
> capital letters or the numbers!
>=20
> I hereby relent, and yield to the logic of the arguments placed before
> me, I now agree that using internationalization for the category name
> is a better idea.
>=20
Well, if the new category supposed to be real,
I don't like 'internationalization' name.
The reason? Very simple.
For now I get:
~> ls /usr/ports/
CHANGES archivers finance misc shells
COPYRIGHT astro french multimedia sysutils
GIDs audio ftp net textproc
INDEX-8 benchmarks games net-im ukrainian
KNOBS biology german net-mgmt vietnamese
LEGAL cad graphics net-p2p www
MOVED chinese hebrew news x11
Makefile comms hungarian packages x11-clocks
Mk converters irc palm x11-drivers
README databases japanese polish x11-fm
Templates deskutils java ports-mgmt x11-fonts
Tools devel korean portuguese x11-servers
UIDs distfiles lang print x11-themes
UPDATING dns mail russian x11-toolkits
accessibility editors math science x11-wm
arabic emulators mbone security
which fits fine in one 80x25 terminal window.
With the new category:
~> ls /usr/ports/
CHANGES devel net-p2p
COPYRIGHT distfiles news
GIDs dns packages
INDEX-8 editors palm
KNOBS emulators polish
LEGAL finance ports-mgmt
MOVED french portuguese
Makefile ftp print
Mk games russian
README german science
Templates graphics security
Tools hebrew shells
UIDs hungarian sysutils
UPDATING internationalization textproc
accessibility irc ukrainian
arabic japanese vietnamese
archivers java www
astro korean x11
audio lang x11-clocks
benchmarks mail x11-drivers
biology math x11-fm
cad mbone x11-fonts
chinese misc x11-servers
comms multimedia x11-themes
converters net x11-toolkits
databases net-im x11-wm
deskutils net-mgmt
which is too long.
You need to scroll to see the whole content of the folder.
About the topic: from
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-June/055424.html
> It is my intention for ports that do localization related work
> would remain in their existing category, and if appropriate
> we could add the new name to CATEGORIES.
from:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-June/055463.html
> To paraphrase a couple of key points
>
> "Localization refers to the adaptation of a product, application
> or document content to meet the language, cultural and other requirements
> of a specific target market (a "locale")."
>
> ...
>
> "Internationalization is the design and development of a product,
> application or document content that enables easy localization
> for target audiences that vary in culture, region, or language."
>
> To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this,
> I stand by my original proposal of i18n.
>From the above my conclusion is, if gettext stays in devel
and kde3-i18n-ca goes to new category, this new category is
for *localized* versions of different applications but not for tools
that help doing *internationalization*.
In any case (I mean the name of the new category), given that some
ports will go into it and some will stay in their current categories
I think the new category should be virtual, not real.
0.02$,
Alexey.
Thomas Abthorpe
Hash: SHA1
On June 23, 2009 01:52:47 pm Alexey Shuvaev wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13:48AM -0400, Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
> > 2009/6/23 Chris Rees <uti...@googlemail.com>:
> > > 2009/6/23 Doug Barton <do...@freebsd.org>:
> > >> Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
> > >>> To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this, I
> > >>> stand by my original proposal of i18n.
> > >>
> > >> I have no objection to your reasoning, but continue to object to the
> > >> specific string. If you're going to go down this road then
> > >> "internationalization" would be the better choice.
> > >>
> > >> Doug
> > >
> > > I would agree with Doug. We're in the days of tab-completion, and
> > > typing 'in<TAB>' will suffice to get there. I for one *hate* numbers
> > > in paths; it takes one's hand off the letters. Also, I had to look up
> > > i18n to find out what it was... Categories should be immediately
> > > descriptive.
>
> Hard to achive... x11-wm, x11-fm, audio vs. multimedia, ...
Agreed, but I still don't have to like it!
>
> > > Also, the French have to use Shift to type numbers; it's even more of
> > > a pain for them!
>
> Unrelated problem.
Agreed, FreeBSD is developed/rooted in en_US anyway. And from my limited
contact with my European brethren, they seem to prefer US keyboards for their
FreeBSD work.
>
> head -50 test.c
> kill -s KILL 46129
> man 3 printf
> mount /dev/da0a mnt/
>
> I think you can't avoid using numbers in command-line.
> BTW, numbers are much better than spaces or localized characters:
> 'Мои документы' ( == 'My Documents')
Touche!
>
> > > Chris
> >
> > You have struck a chord with numbers in the path, reminds me of the
> > pre-Xorg days with /usr/X11R6, not sure what I disliked more, the
> > capital letters or the numbers!
> >
> > I hereby relent, and yield to the logic of the arguments placed before
> > me, I now agree that using internationalization for the category name
> > is a better idea.
>
That is an annoyance. However I would like to think that with the ongoing
evolution of FreeBSD and the ports tree, that this will change at some point
anyway.
>
>
> About the topic: from
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-June/055424.html
>
> > It is my intention for ports that do localization related work
> > would remain in their existing category, and if appropriate
> > we could add the new name to CATEGORIES.
>
> from:
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-June/055463.html
>
> > To paraphrase a couple of key points
> >
> > "Localization refers to the adaptation of a product, application
> > or document content to meet the language, cultural and other requirements
> > of a specific target market (a "locale")."
> >
> > ...
> >
> > "Internationalization is the design and development of a product,
> > application or document content that enables easy localization
> > for target audiences that vary in culture, region, or language."
> >
> > To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this,
> > I stand by my original proposal of i18n.
> >
> >From the above my conclusion is, if gettext stays in devel
>
> and kde3-i18n-ca goes to new category, this new category is
> for *localized* versions of different applications but not for tools
> that help doing *internationalization*.
Localization is a subset Internationalization, so the new category becomes a
catch all for both entities.
>
> In any case (I mean the name of the new category), given that some
> ports will go into it and some will stay in their current categories
> I think the new category should be virtual, not real.
I would like for it to be a real category, so we can unclutter the misc/
folder, and encourage more local/internationalized stuff in the new category.
>
> 0.02$,
> Alexey.
Thanks for the feedback Alexy, I will include this entire thread when I make
my pitch to portmgr@.
Thomas
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Thomas Abthorpe | FreeBSD Committer
tabt...@FreeBSD.org | http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
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Charlie Kester
>
>Localization is a subset Internationalization, so the new category
>becomes a catch all for both entities.
If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and internationalization is
too long, why not go with "nls"?
Tim Bishop
> On Tue 23 Jun 2009 at 12:05:55 PDT Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
> >Localization is a subset Internationalization, so the new category
> >becomes a catch all for both entities.
>
> If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and internationalization is
> too long, why not go with "nls"?
How about internationalisation? ;-)
Tim.
--
Tim Bishop
Eitan Adler
> I would like for it to be a real category, so we can unclutter the misc/
> folder, and encourage more local/internationalized stuff in the new category.
I would like it to be a virtual category.
Lets take a random i18n port: misc/koffice-i18n-th
The port would get moved to editors/ and i18n would get added as a
virtual category. It is more organized this way. A person looking for
editors doesn't have to look in both editors/ and misc/ (or i18n/)
Thomas Abthorpe
Hash: SHA1
On June 23, 2009 10:27:59 pm Eitan Adler wrote:
> > I would like for it to be a real category, so we can unclutter the misc/
> > folder, and encourage more local/internationalized stuff in the new
> > category.
>
> I would like it to be a virtual category.
> Lets take a random i18n port: misc/koffice-i18n-th
> The port would get moved to editors/ and i18n would get added as a
> virtual category. It is more organized this way. A person looking for
> editors doesn't have to look in both editors/ and misc/ (or i18n/)
+1 for virtual category, thanks for the feedback.
- --
Thomas Abthorpe | FreeBSD Committer
tabt...@FreeBSD.org | http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
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Thomas Abthorpe
Hash: SHA1
On June 23, 2009 04:36:08 pm Charlie Kester wrote:
> On Tue 23 Jun 2009 at 12:05:55 PDT Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
> >Localization is a subset Internationalization, so the new category
> >becomes a catch all for both entities.
>
> If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and internationalization is
> too long, why not go with "nls"?
I personally think that nls is equally as cryptic as i18n or l10n.
Thomas
- --
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tabt...@FreeBSD.org | http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
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Thomas Abthorpe
Hash: SHA1
On June 23, 2009 05:35:16 pm Tim Bishop wrote:
> > If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and internationalization is
> > too long, why not go with "nls"?
>
> How about internationalisation? ;-)
>
> Tim.
As a Canadian who prefers en_GB, I fought every urge to propose that one.
Since FreeBSD has en_US as its base language, I felt compelled to use zed in
of ess :>
Thomas
- --
Thomas Abthorpe | FreeBSD Committer
tabt...@FreeBSD.org | http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
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Chris Rees
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On June 23, 2009 05:35:16 pm Tim Bishop wrote:
>> > If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and internationalization is
>> > too long, why not go with "nls"?
>>
>> How about internationalisation? ;-)
>>
>> Tim.
>
> As a Canadian who prefers en_GB, I fought every urge to propose that one.
> Since FreeBSD has en_US as its base language, I felt compelled to use zed in
> of ess :>
>
I'm constantly involved in a fight between my 'evil' and 'good' side;
I can't stand the usual US spellings as a Brit, but I always end up
admitting to myself that US spellings generally:
make more sense;
and
are essentially an improvement on a language that's horrible to
understand and learn properly anyway.
Though I still reserve the right to hate the inconsistent use of 'z'
(why internationalize but surmise; realize but enterprise, etc etc)!
</rant>
You'll never hear this from me again, I promise.
Chris
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list?
Peter Pentchev
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On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 03:13:53PM +0100, Chris Rees wrote:
[snip]
> Though I still reserve the right to hate the inconsistent use of 'z'
> (why internationalize but surmise;
I guess "surmise" just hasn't been US-ized yet :P
=09
> realize but enterprise, etc etc)!
Errrrr, isn't this a verb-vs-noun difference? :) I don't think
nouns are -ize'd, too :)
G'luck,
Peter
--=20
Peter Pentchev ro...@ringlet.net ro...@space.bg ro...@FreeBSD.org
PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc
Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553
This sentence was in the past tense.
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Chris Rees
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 03:13:53PM +0100, Chris Rees wrote:
> [snip]
>> Though I still reserve the right to hate the inconsistent use of 'z'
>> (why internationalize but surmise;
>
> I guess "surmise" just hasn't been US-ized yet :P
>
>
> nouns are -ize'd, too :)
>
> G'luck,
> Peter
>
Er, poor example! The idea's lifted out of Mother Tongue, Bryson 1990.
Chris
--=20
Charlie Kester
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>> On Tue 23 Jun 2009 at 12:05:55 PDT Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
>> >Localization is a subset Internationalization, so the new category
>> >becomes a catch all for both entities.
>>
>> too long, why not go with "nls"?
>
But it has the virtue of being purely alphabetic. and thus meets one of
the objections that have been raised.
I don't put much weight on the "cryptic" argument myself. I expect that
anyone who is doing internationalization work is familiar with all of
these terms -- and if not, they need to *make* themselves familiar with
them.
RW
Peter Pentchev <ro...@ringlet.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 03:13:53PM +0100, Chris Rees wrote:
> [snip]
> > Though I still reserve the right to hate the inconsistent use of 'z'
> > (why internationalize but surmise;
>
> I guess "surmise" just hasn't been US-ized yet :P
It's not really a matter of US v's British English, the consistent use
of "ise" is demotic British English, some better spellcheckers do have
an "ize" option for the British dictionary.
Z is preferred because it was spelt with a zeta in Greek, ise is
typically used where the word came from a french verb using ise, or
where the verb comes from a noun that already contains ise, eg.
advertise comes from advertisement not advert-ize.
Thomas Abthorpe
Hash: SHA1
On June 24, 2009 02:24:01 pm Charlie Kester wrote:
> >On June 23, 2009 04:36:08 pm Charlie Kester wrote:
> >> On Tue 23 Jun 2009 at 12:05:55 PDT Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
> >> >Localization is a subset Internationalization, so the new category
> >> >becomes a catch all for both entities.
> >>
> >> If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and internationalization is
> >> too long, why not go with "nls"?
> >
> >I personally think that nls is equally as cryptic as i18n or l10n.
>
> But it has the virtue of being purely alphabetic. and thus meets one of
> the objections that have been raised.
>
> I don't put much weight on the "cryptic" argument myself. �I expect that
> anyone who is doing internationalization work is familiar with all of
> these �terms -- and if not, they need to *make* themselves familiar with
> them.
ack ack, point well taken.
Thomas
- --
Thomas Abthorpe | FreeBSD Committer
tabt...@FreeBSD.org | http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
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Eitan Adler
> I can't stand the usual US spellings as a Brit, but I always end up
> admitting to myself that US spellings generally:
>
> make more sense;
$make more sense;
make: don't know how to make more. Stop
per...@pluto.rain.com
> > internationalization is too long, why not go with "nls"?
>
> I personally think that nls is equally as cryptic as i18n or l10n.
Anyone care for "intlzn"? It's short, should still tab-complete
from "in", and it may be a bit less cryptic than nls, i18n, or l10n.
Chris Rees
>> > If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and
>> > internationalization is too long, why not go with "nls"?
>>
>> I personally think that nls is equally as cryptic as i18n or l10n.
>
> from "in", and it may be a bit less cryptic than nls, i18n, or l10n.
I was thinking intl, but your suggestion's better.
Chris
--=20
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list?
Mark Foster
>>> If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and
>>> internationalization is too long, why not go with "nls"?
>>>
>> I personally think that nls is equally as cryptic as i18n or l10n.
>>
>
> from "in", and it may be a bit less cryptic than nls, i18n, or l10n.
>
To help settle the matter please vote on this issue within 48 hours.
<http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpview/615850-178803>
Thomas Abthorpe
the next leg of the battle, which is making the pitch to portmgr.
Thomas
--
Sent from my mobile device
Thomas Abthorpe, FreeBSD Ports Committer
tabt...@FreeBSD.org, http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
Carlos A. M. dos Santos
> 2009/6/25 <per...@pluto.rain.com>:
>>> > If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and
>>> > internationalization is too long, why not go with "nls"?
>>>
>>> I personally think that nls is equally as cryptic as i18n or l10n.
>>
>> Anyone care for "intlzn"? It's short, should still tab-complete
>> from "in", and it may be a bit less cryptic than nls, i18n, or l10n.
>
Guys, you have been discussing the category *name* for eight days now
without reaching a consensus. This is becoming somewhat boring. Please
do not reinvent the wheel. Whether you like it or not, i18n is a well
established and widely accepted acronym.
--
My preferred quotation of Robert Louis Stevenson is "You cannot
make an omelette without breaking eggs". Not because I like the
omelettes, but because I like the sound of eggs being broken.
Chris Rees
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Chris Rees<uti...@googlemail.com> wrote=
:
>> 2009/6/25 =A0<per...@pluto.rain.com>:
>>>> > If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and
>>>> > internationalization is too long, why not go with "nls"?
>>>>
>>>> I personally think that nls is equally as cryptic as i18n or l10n.
>>>
>>> from "in", and it may be a bit less cryptic than nls, i18n, or l10n.
>>
>> I was thinking intl, but your suggestion's better.
>
> Guys, you have been discussing the category *name* for eight days now
> without reaching a consensus. This is becoming somewhat boring. Please
> do not reinvent the wheel. Whether you like it or not, i18n is a well
> established and widely accepted acronym.
>
Very sorry, we'll shut up and have it YOUR way.
Chris
--=20
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list?
Thomas Abthorpe
Hash: SHA1
On June 25, 2009 08:51:43 pm Carlos A. M. dos Santos wrote:
> Guys, you have been discussing the category *name* for eight days now
> without reaching a consensus. This is becoming somewhat boring. Please
> do not reinvent the wheel. Whether you like it or not, i18n is a well
> established and widely accepted acronym.
Here endeth the debate
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=136072
- From here it is yay or nay.
- --
Thomas Abthorpe | FreeBSD Committer
tabt...@FreeBSD.org | http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe
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Carlos A. M. dos Santos
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On June 25, 2009 08:51:43 pm Carlos A. M. dos Santos wrote:
>> Guys, you have been discussing the category *name* for eight days now
>> without reaching a consensus. This is becoming somewhat boring. Please
>> do not reinvent the wheel. Whether you like it or not, i18n is a well
>> established and widely accepted acronym.
>
> Here endeth the debate
>
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=136072
>
> - From here it is yay or nay.
Thanks. You might also want to move the portuguese/*[il]1[08]n* ports
to the new category.
--
My preferred quotation of Robert Louis Stevenson is "You cannot
make an omelette without breaking eggs". Not because I like the
omelettes, but because I like the sound of eggs being broken.