experimental cmavo tai'i and ci'oi

[guskant]

coi

I added explanations on the experimental cmavo tai'i and ci'oi to
lojban.org. They were proposed by tijlan long time ago, and are used
by people who have a knowledge of Japanese language. Any comments will
be appreciated.

http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tai%27i
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/ci%27oi
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Phenomimes+and+psychomimes
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/currently+proposed+experimental+cmavo
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Currently+used+experimental+cmavo

jbovlaste
http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/tai'i
http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/ci'oi

mu'o

[Adam Lopresto]

Could you attempt to explain that in a way that means something to people who don't speak any of those languages, and don't already know what you're talking about? "It's just like this feature you're never heard of in a language you don't know" is less than useful.

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[la .lindar.]

I don't quite get how the lojban part works, but the linguistic feature in Japanese looks like this:

"doki" - onomatopoeia for a heart beat

"dokidoki" - faster heart beat ('racing heart')

"suru" - noun-to-verb  conversion

"watashi wa dokidokisuru" - "My heart is racing." or whatever that implies culturally.

So, I think that's what this is meant to do?

Problem is, there are no neutral or Lojban-only onomatopoeia for things.

[guskant]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 12:30 AM, Adam Lopresto <adamlo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Could you attempt to explain that in a way that means something to people
> who don't speak any of those languages, and don't already know what you're
> talking about? "It's just like this feature you're never heard of in a
> language you don't know" is less than useful.
>

Phenomimes and psychomimes are used in similar ways to onomatopoeia.
In contrast to onomatopoeia, they give respectively uttered
expressions to phenomena and mental states that do NOT necessarily
make a sound. Similarly to onomatopoeia, speakers of a language share
meanings of certain phenomimes and psychomimes, while sometimes they
invent one's peculiar phenomimes and psychomimes.

How do I invent a phenomime or a psychomime? Just like giving a piece
of background music to a scene of a drama, call to mind a piece of
sound suitable to a phenomenon or a mental state; convert it to a
string of phonemes; in Lojban, utter it just after {tai'i} or {ci'oi};
that's it.

It may happen that a distinction between a phenomime, a psychomime and
an onomatopoeia is vague. In this case, use {tai'i}: it is defined as
a broader term than {ci'oi} and {sa'ei}.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:08 AM, la .lindar. <lindar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Problem is, there are no neutral or Lojban-only onomatopoeia for things.
>

That's right. However, it sometimes happens that even Japanese
listeners don't understand the meanings of phemomimes, psychomimes and
onomatopoeia used by a Japanese speaker. These words do not
independently convey precise meanings to the listeners. If a speaker
wants to reduce vagueness of the meanings of them, it is indispensable
to accompany them with content words.

[la gleki]

.i'e .i ku'iru'e mi djica lo nu da setca fi jyvysy fe lo drata se cinri ke ponjo valsi

.i mu'a mi pu setca zo cmiai