The Lift 1.1 list

[David Pollak]

Folks,

I think we've got our Lift 1.1 list.  If anyone has anything to add, please speak up now.

• Improved documentation: better VScalaDoc coverage as well as better tutorial and cook-book documentation.
• Improved J2EE support including JTA and Portlets.
• Finish Record/Field code with backing store including JDBC, JPA and Goat Rodeo (what's Goat Rodeo? http://goatrodeo.org)
• Improved client-side JavaScript support and better JavaScript abstractions.
• Client/Server data synchronization (integrated with Record/Field)
• Improved support for REST.
• Improved performance including caching templates when running in production mode.
• OSGi support.
• Improved testing framework and better testing support when running in "test" mode.
• Implement Servlet 3.0 support.
• HTML 5 and Web Sockets support and integration with Kaazing's Web Sockets server.  Also, sensing which browser is making the request and performing optimizations based on that browser's characteristics (specifically, Chrome and Firefox 3.1 support)

We will have bug-fix releases of 1.0 along the way and we'll have a release off the 1.0 branch when Scala 2.8 is released.

Feedback is welcome in the next 3 days.

Thanks,

David

--
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Git some: http://github.com/dpp

[TylerWeir]

I gotta be honest, with April Fools, I was scared to click on
goatrodeo.org...

On Apr 1, 12:11 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I think we've got our Lift 1.1 list.  If anyone has anything to add, please
> speak up now.
>

>    - Improved documentation: better VScalaDoc coverage as well as better
>    tutorial and cook-book documentation.
>    - Improved J2EE support including JTA and Portlets.
>    - Finish Record/Field code with backing store including JDBC, JPA and

>    Goat Rodeo (what's Goat Rodeo?http://goatrodeo.org)

>    - Improved client-side JavaScript support and better JavaScript
>    abstractions.
>    - Client/Server data synchronization (integrated with Record/Field)
>    - Improved support for REST.
>    - Improved performance including caching templates when running in
>    production mode.
>    - OSGi support.
>    - Improved testing framework and better testing support when running in
>    "test" mode.
>    - Implement Servlet 3.0 support.
>    - HTML 5 and Web Sockets support and integration with Kaazing's Web

>    Sockets server.  Also, sensing which browser is making the request and
>    performing optimizations based on that browser's characteristics
>    (specifically, Chrome and Firefox 3.1 support)
>
> We will have bug-fix releases of 1.0 along the way and we'll have a release
> off the 1.0 branch when Scala 2.8 is released.
>
> Feedback is welcome in the next 3 days.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net

> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

[David Pollak]

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:37 AM, TylerWeir <tyler...@gmail.com> wrote:

I gotta be honest, with April Fools, I was scared to click on
goatrodeo.org...

:-)
 

--

Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net

Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

[Lee Mighdoll]

Sounds great. 

One other feature I'd like (and I think would be widely useful):
* Partitioned service cluster support for a/b testing:  redirect some users to a different server, e.g. to test the new version   

And possibly:
* Backing store support for Voldemort (or does that come through goat rodeo?)

How'd you get the name goat rodeo?! lol

Lee

[Viktor Klang]

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Lee Mighdoll <leemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sounds great. 

One other feature I'd like (and I think would be widely useful):
* Partitioned service cluster support for a/b testing:  redirect some users to a different server, e.g. to test the new version   

Just do a redirect response?
 

--
Viktor Klang
Senior Systems Analyst

[bradford]

Hahaha.

David, would "improved client-side JavaScript support and better
JavaScript abstractions" cover my autocomplete customization
question?

Also, could I make a request to add JS and CSS minification in
production mode that can be controlled by a request parameter
variable. So, ?minificationOff=true would mean that it serves the
normal JS and CSS. I am not sure if this should be offered by the
framework or just controlled by the user in his build process.

Thanks,
Bradford

On Apr 1, 12:53 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[David Pollak]

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:09 AM, bradford <finge...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hahaha.

David, would "improved client-side JavaScript support and better
JavaScript abstractions" cover my autocomplete customization
question?

No, but we'll always do little bits and pieces.
 

Also, could I make a request to add JS and CSS minification in
production mode that can be controlled by a request parameter
variable.  So, ?minificationOff=true would mean that it serves the
normal JS and CSS.  I am not sure if this should be offered by the
framework or just controlled by the user in his build process.

This is a build-process thing or handled by your snippet.  Not a Lift thing.
 

--

Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net

Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

[Lee Mighdoll]

One other feature I'd like (and I think would be widely useful):
* Partitioned service cluster support for a/b testing:  redirect some users to a different server, e.g. to test the new version   

Just do a redirect response?

That sounds right... 

Some configuration:
* Configure and store mapping of which users to redirect where. 
* Configure where to rediect not logged in visitors. 

To consider:
* Any integration with Record/Mapper sharding?
* Use configuration as a failover mechanism?


 

[Jorge Ortiz]

I propose we migrate to Joda Time for 1.1.

In particular, I propose that Record ditch Java Date/Time entirely in favor of Joda Time. Since migrating from Mapper to Record will involve a port anyway, what's one more breaking change among friends?

Lift's other uses of Date/Time should be deprecated in favor of Joda Time alternatives.

Mapper should continue to support Date/Time.

--j

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:11 AM, David Pollak <feeder.of...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jorge Ortiz]

I also propose we start thinking seriously about 2.8.

In particular, 2.8 will probably add support for named and default arguments. This places extra burdens on library and framework designers, as method -argument- names will be just as much a part of a library/framework's API as class, method, and field names. It also means that decisions about the order of arguments, whether arguments have a default, and whether methods are overloaded need to be made or revisited.

For our 1.0 branch, this means cleaning up argument names before releasing a 2.8 version. Order of arguments should not be changed, nor should we remove any overloaded method versions.

For our 1.1 branch, I propose we do a holistic review of API decisions with regards to arguments, argument names, argument order, defaults, and overloading.

--j

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:11 AM, David Pollak <feeder.of...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Timothy Perrett]

I think your right Jorge... 2.8 brings some important changes that
could quite possibly have some pretty significant breaking changes in
the Lift API.

I also agree with the JodaTime in record/field, sounds like perfect
sense.

Cheers, Tim

[Charles F. Munat]

+1 Anything to get away from that damn Java Date/Calendar crap.

Agreed on need to review API.

Chas.

[Derek Chen-Becker]

+10 on JodaTime. +1 on documentation effort, something I've got on my ever-growing TODO list...

Derek

[Bill Venners]

Hi David,

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:11 AM, David Pollak
<feeder.of...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Folks,
>

> Improved testing framework and better testing support when running in "test"
> mode.
>

Can you elaborate on what your plans are for this?

Thanks.

Bill

[David Pollak]

It's a goal, not a set of plans.  I'm expecting one of the committers would take ownership and figure it out.  Wanna be a committer, take ownership, and figure it out?

 

Thanks.

Bill

[Josh Suereth]

My resources are pretty limited, but I'd love to at least contribute what I can to the OSGi support.  I'd love to see a plugin system for lift apps that's sensible!

Speaking of which, perhaps a plugin system that's sensible should be part of the list?  I know grails does some neat stuff there with creating plugins (but their packaging/distribution model was less than desirable IMHO).  Granted, a "plugin" in grails usually means "nice library" in scala, but being able to define extension points and plug in features would be handy (in certain circumstances.  Hudson is my example of a good use of these features).

-Josh

[David Pollak]

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Josh Suereth <joshua....@gmail.com> wrote:

My resources are pretty limited, but I'd love to at least contribute what I can to the OSGi support.  I'd love to see a plugin system for lift apps that's sensible!

Cool.  I'm hoping that Heiko will lead the efforts, but extra hands always help. :-)

 

Speaking of which, perhaps a plugin system that's sensible should be part of the list?  I know grails does some neat stuff there with creating plugins (but their packaging/distribution model was less than desirable IMHO).  Granted, a "plugin" in grails usually means "nice library" in scala, but being able to define extension points and plug in features would be handy (in certain circumstances.  Hudson is my example of a good use of these features).

I don't understand what a plugin is in the context of Lift.  There's not much you can't do simply by defining a DispatchPF or a page with SiteMap.

[Timothy Perrett]

Just my two pence, but right now I understand these things are
possible with ViewDispatchPF and SnippetDispatchPF etc etc and all the
other tools we have in lift for creating modular view and logic code.

However, the one thing I would say is that a lot of people appear to
struggle with the particulars of how the hell one goes about creating
a plugin / module / component – this must mean we are not doing
something right... Even if it is just in communication of these things
to the community as a whole.

@dpp I know you mentioned you were going to make me a sample (re this
thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb/browse_thread/thread/932a730659975d0d
)

I know its a big ask, but any chance you could bash something out that
the community can consume and regurgitate some proper documentation /
tutorial on? (perhaps I could scala-blog it or similar)

Cheers, Tim

On Apr 2, 4:34 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Josh Suereth <joshua.suer...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > My resources are pretty limited, but I'd love to at least contribute what I
> > can to the OSGi support.  I'd love to see a plugin system for lift apps
> > that's sensible!
>
> Cool.  I'm hoping that Heiko will lead the efforts, but extra hands always
> help. :-)
>
>
>
> > Speaking of which, perhaps a plugin system that's sensible should be part
> > of the list?  I know grails does some neat stuff there with creating plugins
> > (but their packaging/distribution model was less than desirable IMHO).
> > Granted, a "plugin" in grails usually means "nice library" in scala, but
> > being able to define extension points and plug in features would be handy
> > (in certain circumstances.  Hudson is my example of a good use of these
> > features).
>
> I don't understand what a plugin is in the context of Lift.  There's not
> much you can't do simply by defining a DispatchPF or a page with SiteMap.
>
>
>
>
>
> > -Josh
>
> > On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:11 PM, David Pollak <
> > feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Folks,
>
> >> I think we've got our Lift 1.1 list.  If anyone has anything to add,
> >> please speak up now.
>

> >>    - Improved documentation: better VScalaDoc coverage as well as better
> >>    tutorial and cook-book documentation.
> >>    - Improved J2EE support including JTA and Portlets.
> >>    - Finish Record/Field code with backing store including JDBC, JPA and

> >>    Goat Rodeo (what's Goat Rodeo?http://goatrodeo.org)

> >>    - Improved client-side JavaScript support and better JavaScript
> >>    abstractions.
> >>    - Client/Server data synchronization (integrated with Record/Field)

> >>    - Improved support for REST.

> >>    - Improved performance including caching templates when running in
> >>    production mode.
> >>    - OSGi support.
> >>    - Improved testing framework and better testing support when running
> >>    in "test" mode.

> >>    - Implement Servlet 3.0 support.

> >>    - HTML 5 and Web Sockets support and integration with Kaazing's Web

> >>    Sockets server.  Also, sensing which browser is making the request and
> >>    performing optimizations based on that browser's characteristics
> >>    (specifically, Chrome and Firefox 3.1 support)
>
> >> We will have bug-fix releases of 1.0 along the way and we'll have a
> >> release off the 1.0 branch when Scala 2.8 is released.
>
> >> Feedback is welcome in the next 3 days.
>
> >> Thanks,
>
> >> David
>
> >> --
> >> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net

> >> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

> >> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> >> Git some:http://github.com/dpp
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net

> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

[David Pollak]

Tim,

It's on my backlog. Right now I'm working on a preso for a class I'm teaching today at Cal Berkeley.  Tomorrow is tax day and next week is a family vacation.  I'll try to get something to you.

Thanks,

David

On Apr 2, 2009 9:07 AM, "Timothy Perrett" <tim...@getintheloop.eu> wrote:



Just my two pence, but right now I understand these things are
possible with ViewDispatchPF and SnippetDispatchPF etc etc and all the
other tools we have in lift for creating modular view and logic code.

However, the one thing I would say is that a lot of people appear to
struggle with the particulars of how the hell one goes about creating
a plugin / module / component – this must mean we are not doing
something right... Even if it is just in communication of these things
to the community as a whole.

@dpp I know you mentioned you were going to make me a sample (re this
thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb/browse_thread/thread/932a730659975d0d
)

I know its a big ask, but any chance you could bash something out that
the community can consume and regurgitate some proper documentation /
tutorial on? (perhaps I could scala-blog it or similar)

Cheers, Tim

On Apr 2, 4:34 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Josh Suereth <joshua.suer...@gmail.com>wrote:

> > > My resources are pretty limited, but I'd love to at least contribute what I > > can to the OSG...

> > feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> Folks, > > >> I think we've got our Lift 1.1 list. ...

> >> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net

> >> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

> >> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp > >> Git some:http://github.com/dpp > > --

> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net

> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp > Git some:http://github.com/dpp --~--~---------~--~----~--------...

[Bill Venners]

Hi David,

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:28 PM, David Pollak
<feeder.of...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Bill Venners <bi...@artima.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:11 AM, David Pollak
>> <feeder.of...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Folks,
>> >
>> > Improved testing framework and better testing support when running in
>> > "test"
>> > mode.
>> >
>> Can you elaborate on what your plans are for this?
>
> It's a goal, not a set of plans.  I'm expecting one of the committers would
> take ownership and figure it out.  Wanna be a committer, take ownership, and
> figure it out?
>

Ooh, I stepped in that one. The testing Lift apps is a good, real use
case for both ScalaTest and Specs. I hope to meet with Eric Torreborre
Monday. I'll talk with him about what's needed for Lift, as I think
he's more familiar with its testing needs. I have definitely wanted to
do some work with Lift so I can become more familiar with it as a web
app framework, but just haven't had time yet. I'm gradually popping
things off my stack of tasks, so I'll get there eventually.

Bill

[David Pollak]

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Bill Venners <bi...@artima.com> wrote:

Hi David,

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:28 PM, David Pollak

<feeder.of...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Bill Venners <bi...@artima.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:11 AM, David Pollak
>> <feeder.of...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Folks,
>> >
>> > Improved testing framework and better testing support when running in
>> > "test"
>> > mode.
>> >
>> Can you elaborate on what your plans are for this?
>
> It's a goal, not a set of plans.  I'm expecting one of the committers would
> take ownership and figure it out.  Wanna be a committer, take ownership, and
> figure it out?
>

Ooh, I stepped in that one.

Yeah... don't you know the rule... get a good idea and you own it.  I'm just the Tom Sawyer who's convincing the smart folks to white-wash my fence/build Lift. ;-)

 

The testing Lift apps is a good, real use
case for both ScalaTest and Specs. I hope to meet with Eric Torreborre
Monday. I'll talk with him about what's needed for Lift, as I think
he's more familiar with its testing needs. I have definitely wanted to
do some work with Lift so I can become more familiar with it as a web
app framework, but just haven't had time yet. I'm gradually popping
things off my stack of tasks, so I'll get there eventually.

Cool.  I think there's a need for a better way to test web apps in general and to describe the state models so that they can be tested in a sane way.  I just don't have a clue as to how to do it.  But... I think it ties in with the JavaScript enhancements I want to see in 1.1.  Perhaps there's some sort of state/logic combinator thingy that can emit client-side JS, sync data, and be very testable.  Dunno... just ranting/flailing.

 

Bill

>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --

> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
>
> >
>

[Timothy Perrett]

Ok no worries - personally, I dont have any burning need for it right
this moment but I could certainly make serious use of it within the
next month.

Cheers, Tim

[Xavi Ramirez]

+10 for documentation effort. Speaking from the noob perspective, the
documentation is the biggest barrier to entry for Lift. Currently
there are 3 places to get lift documentation:

-Get Started Tutorial
-Lift Book
-Lift Wiki

The first two sources are excellent, but the last one is bit lacking.
I think it'd be a big win if we can clean up the wiki. Or, at the
very least we should get rid of obsolete articles/code.

Also, I feel it would be helpful if all the documentation was in one
location, opposed to separated into various in PDFs and webpages.

Just adding my two cents.

Thanks,
Xavi

[Marc Boschma]

I have been reading up on OSGi with some discipline it could allow Erlang like live upgrades (also nice to not have to shutdown a JVM, so +1.

I'm curious on the Portlet support - is that embedding portlets in snippets and/or creating portlets (rather than servlets)?

Marc

[Charles F. Munat]

Have you looked at Windmill?

http://www.getwindmill.com/

From what I've heard it's pretty cool.

Chas.

David Pollak wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Bill Venners <bi...@artima.com
> <mailto:bi...@artima.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:28 PM, David Pollak
> <feeder.of...@gmail.com

> <mailto:feeder.of...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Bill Venners <bi...@artima.com
> <mailto:bi...@artima.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi David,
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:11 AM, David Pollak
> >> <feeder.of...@gmail.com

[David Pollak]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Marc Boschma <marc+l...@boschma.cx> wrote:

I have been reading up on OSGi with some discipline it could allow Erlang like live upgrades (also nice to not have to shutdown a JVM, so +1.

I'm curious on the Portlet support - is that embedding portlets in snippets and/or creating portlets (rather than servlets)?

I'm thinking having Lift being exposed as a Portlet as well as a Servlet.
 

Marc

On 02/04/2009, at 3:11 AM, David Pollak wrote:

Folks,

I think we've got our Lift 1.1 list.  If anyone has anything to add, please speak up now.

• Improved documentation: better VScalaDoc coverage as well as better tutorial and cook-book documentation.
• Improved J2EE support including JTA and Portlets.
• Finish Record/Field code with backing store including JDBC, JPA and Goat Rodeo (what's Goat Rodeo? http://goatrodeo.org)
• Improved client-side JavaScript support and better JavaScript abstractions.
• Client/Server data synchronization (integrated with Record/Field)
• Improved support for REST.
• Improved performance including caching templates when running in production mode.
• OSGi support.
• Improved testing framework and better testing support when running in "test" mode.
• Implement Servlet 3.0 support.
• HTML 5 and Web Sockets support and integration with Kaazing's Web Sockets server.  Also, sensing which browser is making the request and performing optimizations based on that browser's characteristics (specifically, Chrome and Firefox 3.1 support)

We will have bug-fix releases of 1.0 along the way and we'll have a release off the 1.0 branch when Scala 2.8 is released.

[DavidV]

Also, it would be great it Lift1.1 included all of the
necessary .js, .css and class files for the new MenuWidget

On Apr 3, 3:42 am, "Charles F. Munat" <c...@munat.com> wrote:
> Have you looked at Windmill?
>
> http://www.getwindmill.com/
>
>  From what I've heard it's pretty cool.
>
> Chas.
>
> David Pollak wrote:
>

> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Bill Venners <b...@artima.com
> > <mailto:b...@artima.com>> wrote:
>
> >     Hi David,
>
> >     On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:28 PM, David Pollak

> >     <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com
> >     <mailto:feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >      > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Bill Venners <b...@artima.com

> >     <mailto:b...@artima.com>> wrote:
>
> >      >> Hi David,
>
> >      >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:11 AM, David Pollak

> >      >> <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com

> >      > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

> >      > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> >      > Git some:http://github.com/dpp
>
> > --
> > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net

> > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

[Derek Chen-Becker]

It does, but in the lift-widgets module. I think that the functionality is sufficiently "enhanced" that it should stay a separate widget as opposed to becoming the default behavior.

Derek

[Chad Skinner]

Also, it would be great it Lift1.1 included all of the
necessary .js, .css and class files for the new MenuWidget

I have not had the chance to actually work with lift yet and have been doing a lot of reading, but I have not read how lift currently handles script and css resources? Does it have a registry that allows resources to be included in the header and remove duplicate resources or does each widget include the resources it requires ... possibly multiple times depending on each widgets requirements?

[Timothy Perrett]

Just looking back over the list - where are we too with the current
Record implementation?

I want to factor out some localization functionality into a
ProtoTranslation style system, but for Record rather than mapper; i'm
not sure Record is sufficiently mature however?

Cheers, Tim

[David Pollak]

Record will mature during this release.

 

Cheers, Tim

--

Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net

Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890