Local circumstances 110W long for 10-8 to 10-11 impacts

[cano...@yahoo.com]

Based on these launch and impact dates:

A launch on June 17 results in an impact on October 8 at 10:30 UT.
A launch on June 18 results in an impact on October 9 at 11:30 UT.
A launch on June 19 results in an impact on October 10 at 12:30 UT.
A launch on June 21 (June 20 EDT) results in an impact on October 11
at 13:30 UT.

I assembled the following location circumstances for my o.p. at 111W
long in SLC, UT - which on Oct. 8-10 are pretty good. Oct. 11 is
killed by advancing sunlight. Pacific Coast North Am will be even
better:

October 8 10:30 UT (4:30 MDT)
Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-8 4h30m ( TU + -6h00m )
Sideral Time : 4h11m
Hour Angle : 23h52m
Azimuth :+173°24'
Altitude :+74°11'
Sun Alt -33

October 9 11:30 UT (5:30 MDT)
Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-9 5h30m ( TU + -6h00m )
Sideral Time : 5h15m
Hour Angle : 23h52m
Azimuth :+173°15'
Altitude :+74°57'
Sun alt -23

October 10 12:30 UT (6:30 MDT)
Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-10 6h30m ( TU + -6h00m )
Sideral Time : 6h20m
Hour Angle : 23h52m
Azimuth :+173°21'
Altitude :+73°55'
Sun alt -12

October 11 13:30 UT (7:30 MDT)
Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-11 7h30m ( TU + -6h00m )
Sideral Time : 7h24m
Hour Angle : 23h53m
Azimuth :+174°58'
Altitude :+71°10'
Sun alt -1

Illuminated fractions and apparent libration from SLC for those dates
are:

October 8 10:30 UT (4:30 MDT)
Illumination: 80.9%
Libration in latitude: -4d43m
Libration in longitude: -3d33m
Terminator at equator: E34.7 (Colongitude 145.3)

October 9 11:30 UT (5:30 MDT)
Illumination: 71%
Libration in latitude: -3d30m
Libration in longitude: -2d50m
Terminator at equator: E22 (Colongitude 158)

October 10 12:30 UT (6:30 MDT)
Illumination: 59.8%
Libration in latitude: -2d
Libration in longitude: -2d
Terminator at equator: E9.1 (Colongitude 170.8)

October 11 13:30 UT (7:30 MDT)
Illumination: 47.9%
Libration in latitude: -0d19m
Libration in longitude: -1d8m
Terminator at equator: W3.6 (Colongitude 183.6)

The launch date has been slipped so many times, I take these impact
dates and times with a grain of salt.

Think positive thoughts about that June 17 launch date. -:)

Clear Skies - Kurt

[luis martinez]

Thanks for the calculations, Kurt. I was planning to do that later this summer (I am on the same time zone) but you did it for me. The altitude is perfect but it looks like any launch date later than June 17/18 means bad new with the sunlight. Civil twilight on October 8 and 9 comes about 6am.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Luis

[cano...@yahoo.com]

On Jun 9, 5:32 pm, luis martinez <kd7...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Thanks for the calculations, Kurt. I was planning to do that later this
> summer (I am on the same time zone) but you did it for me. . . .
> *Keeping my fingers crossed.* *Luis

I have add a qualifier on this. Although the LCROSS impact dates and
times are a report by a first-person LCROSS team member, the impact
times are inconsistent with prior LCROSS statements. As the the Raupe
blog analysis at http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2009/05/moon-at-lcross-impact.html
notes, at the May 21 press conference, an LCROSS team member stated
that they were trying to time the impact when the Moon was over Keck
(and the slit spectrograph at IRTF). This is what I have always
understood was going to happen (that the impact will be timed to favor
Hawaii telescopes).

This figure shows the sublunar position of the Moon at 10:30 UT and
13:30 UT on 10-8-2009:

http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/photos/20091009MoonPosFig1.JPG

At 10:30 UT, the Moon is over New Mexico and only at about 46 degs alt
at Hawaii. The Moon would transit Hawaii about 3:43 Hawaii time
(13:43 UT) at a much higher local Hawaii altitude.

For the Intermountain Time Zone, you really only have a two hour
window between 10:30UT and 12:30UT before Intermountain astronomical
twilight where the impact can be imaged at a better altitude in Hawaii
but still be visible in the Intermountain west. Pacific coasters have
another hour of darkness to work with.

In short, I suspect and hope the actual impact date and time will firm
up somewhere in this two hour window.

So again, like most LCROSS announcements, things are provision, may
change before the impact and probably involve windows of opportunity
several hours in duration. But, things are still looking much better
for North Am observers, however, the impact date and time finally
firms up.

Clear Skies - Kurt

[luis martinez]

Understood. Heck, life is all about chance, qualifiers, and good dumb luck!

I plan to take a leave day from work and engage in an all night watch for LCROSS, who wouldn't?

Which software or website did u use to generate the jpg below?

http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/photos/20091009MoonPosFig1.JPG

 

Thanks

Luis

[cano...@yahoo.com]

On Jun 10, 5:54 pm, luis martinez <kd7...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Understood. Heck, life is all about chance, qualifiers, and good dumb luck!
- LOL

> *Which software or website did u use to generate the jpg below?*

John Walker's HomePlanet an old planetarium program
http://www.fourmilab.ch/homeplanet/

The online version is at:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/yoursky/

Walker is a pretty interesting character, cofounder of AutoDesk and
creator of AutoCAD.

[Jim Mosher]

Luis,

You might also find the Earth Viewer function in LTVT helpful for this
purpose.

http://ltvt.wikispaces.com/Earth+Viewer

The point on Earth where the Moon is directly overhead is indicated by
the blue "+" mark. At the edges of the image it will be seen low on
the horizon. The portions of the Earth in sunlight are also
indicated, and the numeric results are more accurate than those in
Walker's programs. Much additional information is displayed as you
move the mouse over the image.

-- Jim

On Jun 10, 4:54 pm, luis martinez <kd7...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Understood. Heck, life is all about chance, qualifiers, and good dumb luck!
> *
> *I plan to take a leave day from work and engage in an all night watch for
> LCROSS, who wouldn't?
> *
> *Which software or website did u use to generate the jpg below?*
> *http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/photos/20091009MoonP...
> *
>
> **
> *Thanks*
> *Luis
>
> * On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 2:17 PM, canopu...@yahoo.com
> <canopu...@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
>
> > On Jun 9, 5:32 pm, luis martinez <kd7...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > *Thanks for the calculations, Kurt. I was planning to do that later this
> > > summer (I am on the same time zone) but you did it for me. . . .
> > > *Keeping my fingers crossed.* *Luis
>
> > I have add a qualifier on this.  Although the LCROSS impact dates and
> > times are a report by a first-person LCROSS team member, the impact
> > times are inconsistent with prior LCROSS statements.  As the the Raupe
> > blog analysis at
> >http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2009/05/moon-at-lcross-impact.html
> > notes, at the May 21 press conference, an LCROSS team member stated
> > that they were trying to time the impact when the Moon was over Keck
> > (and the slit spectrograph at IRTF).  This is what I have always
> > understood was going to happen (that the impact will be timed to favor
> > Hawaii telescopes).
>
> > This figure shows the sublunar position of the Moon at 10:30 UT and
> > 13:30 UT on 10-8-2009:
>

> >http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/photos/20091009MoonP...

[Derek C Breit]

From a Friend of mine about Kaguya, but apparently it will be applicable
here as well..

:-))

Derek

Greetings All: I certainly second David's comments and concerns about being
able to do widespread quality work during such opportunities. It would not
be such a problem if this was the first time. We are noting a pattern of
crashing space probes into the Marginal Zone when the Moon is around 90% to
100% sunlit. This is simply not acceptable when we have developed such a
significant ability to record the dark side of the Moon with such sensitive
low light cameras. Our systems have such significant capabilities around a
30% Moon's dark side event while our technology is worthless around the Full
Moon because of their sensitivity. Of course, we could Gain the cameras
down, but that certainly defeats the point of trying to detect the faint
event the cameras were designed to record. I find it hard to believe there
is any true effort to coordinate recording such events, when they are
repeatedly "planned" when the event would be impossible to see. Also, since
the spacecraft have been controlled so well for years, then it is also
difficult to believe that these teams would find it impossible (on every
occasion) to plan the crash at a more appropriate time. (I also wish they
would forget making such announcements for events that can not be reasonably
seen as we already have far too many people out in the general community who
"believe" all this space stuff is a waste of tax money and a complete fraud.
Such "predictions" that can not be seen just add to their view that
everything we talk about are lies and a bunch of worthless waste of tax
money.) Just my 2 cents worth. Thank You! Richard

[Jim Mosher]

Luis,

I forgot to mention that for those who don't have the program, the
LTVT Earth Viewer output showing the parts of the world from which the
Moon will be visible at the four possible LCROSS impact times
mentioned by Kurt can be seen at:

http://ltvt.wikispaces.com/LCROSS+Impact

-- Jim

> > > Clear Skies - Kurt- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -