Dear Brothers and Sisters,
Where do we really come from? And how did we get to where we live today? DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who—about 60,000 years ago—began a remarkable journey.
Let all the members give a try............
You can visit http://www.nationalgeographic.com/genographic
and read and understand about genetic testing.
Also visit https://www.familytreedna.com/
This is quiet interesting, we all can test our genes.
Love,
Ciju Kurian Pachamkulathu St Marys Knanaya Jacobite Church,Kattode.,Tiruvalla
|
Dear Brothers and Sisters,
Where do we really come from? And how did we get to where we live today? DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who--about 60,000 years ago--began a remarkable journey.
Let all the members give a try............
You can visit http://www.nationalgeographic.com/genographic
and read and understand about genetic testing.
Also visit
https://www.familytreedna.com/
This is quiet interesting, we all can test our genes.
Love,
Ciju Kurian Pachamkulathu
St Marys Knanaya Jacobite Church,Kattode.,Tiruvalla
Dear Ciju:
Let us not go that route again, pleaaaase. We all know that there are tainted blood among us... Its just a faith just like we have with our God. Normally, we do not even try to prove who our father is. If anyone has doubt, then let him/her go and do the test...
So, let us not start on this topic any further... Hope, you understand me..
Sincerely
Peter Chemmalakuzhy. |
From: Ciju Kurian <ci...@yahoo.com> |
|
|
Dear Brothers and Sisters,Where do we really come from? And how did we get to where we live today? DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who--about 60,000 years ago--began a remarkable journey.
Let all the members give a try............You can visit http://www.nationalgeographic.com/genographicand read and understand about genetic testing.Also visitThis is quiet interesting, we all can test our genes.Love,Ciju Kurian PachamkulathuSt Marys Knanaya Jacobite Church,Kattode.,Tiruvalla
Dear Brothers and Sisters,Where do we really come from? And how did we get to where we live today? DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who--about 60,000 years ago--began a remarkable journey.
Let all the members give a try............You can visit http://www.nationalgeographic.com/genographicand read and understand about genetic testing.Also visitThis is quiet interesting, we all can test our genes.Love,Ciju Kurian PachamkulathuSt Marys Knanaya Jacobite Church,Kattode.,Tiruvalla
These have been KANA arguments for so long in USA,
and now they are active recruiting in India looking
for any disenfranchised Knanayites and/or
non-enodgamous knanayites for various reasons.
If you are marketing and recruiting for KANA
membership, please make it clear to all of us.
I see a value for KANA in your arguments.
Simon
> ---------------------------------
Knanayaites trust their mothers. Those who don't, always doubt about purity of blood. --- On Wed, 6/4/08, Nithin Zachariah <nithin.z...@gmail.com> wrote: |
You bring up Obama's story every time to support your
thesis.
Let's digest that for a moment.
Obama is a member of the mixed race (African Muslim
and white American christian women).
Where does he belong?
Under you definition, he would be an African Muslim
based on his father's tradition.
He is neither African Muslim (Father's tradition) ,
neither American white christian (Mother's tradition).
He is a new breed. He is considered an American Black
Christian.
Let's stop using examples for convenience and stay the
course.
thanks
simon
=== message truncated ===
Following is taken from Alex Esttappan's last email.
(I am a Kna married to a Kna. I prefer my children and all the Knanaya children marry from our community. But, if some of them marry from outside (actually many of them do), I do not want to exclude them. Exclusion for purity is a racist practice supported by racist groups like KKK, unfit to Barack Obama's America and unfit to a christian community. Until majority of Knas and our bishops realize this, we will be in trouble. )
Based on the above statement by you, I should call you hypocrat. If you are not beliving endogomy and the tradition of knanaya people that's fine.In that case why do you think or why do you prefer, your children marry from knanaya community. If you don't belive knanaya tradition, as a father you should encourage your children to marry any one doesn't matter black ,white,kna or non kna and be proud about the same. Show the courage to throw the knanaya community(which follow stupidity,---according to you) and and select what you think is best Based on your couple of emails, you show that ,you are a prooven Republican and has something aganist Obama.
Sunil Abraham Malathusseril
|
From: alex esthappan <aesth...@yahoo.com> |
> > wrote:
Dear Alex,
I have been reading your mails for a long time.
I would like to point out the following facts to you:
1. We, the Knanayas follow the instructions given by our forefathers.
"Hinduvil poyaalum makkale ningalu
Bandhangal kaividathorkknameppozhum"
We feel proud about that. I don’t think obeying the wishes of the
Parents are some thing really bad. What do you want to say? Should we not follow
The instruction given by our forefathers?
2. As far as I know our community does not allow child marriages. If a Knanaya guy marries a non-Kna gal, he marries it knowing the complete consequences.
I know many Knanaya guys got better marriage proposals
From non-Knanaya families.
But they sacrificed those proposals for the community.
How are you going to reward these people who
Sacrificed their personal happiness for the sake of the community?
Now if you bring these people who willingly wanted to
go out of the community, how do those people who sacrificed their own happiness for the sake of the community will feel now?
Even, I have five cousin brothers who married non-Kna gals.
I don’t feel sorry for them. They knew before their marriage that they will be out of the community. They willingly accepted it for their own personal happiness. Why should you or I feel sorry for them? They are leading their lives happily.
3. Hope you are also a supporter of democracy. In democracy, the will and the wishes of the majority will always prevail and it should be like that. As far as I know the majority of the Knanayas want to exclude the guys who marry non-Kna girls. I think, you should also respect the wishes of the majority. If it is too much suffocating for you,
then the door is always open in front of you. Nobody is forcing you to be in the community.
Thanks
Jaimon Mathew
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:29:57 -0700
From: aesth...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Let us prove our roots
To: simonv...@yahoo.com; knanay...@googlegroups.com; nithin.z...@gmail.com
CC: pcku...@yahoo.com; Luk...@aol.com; knanay...@yahoogroups.com; marm...@yahoo.com; spo...@gmail.com
Dear alex, Don't get me wrong,I can't find any single person supporting your arguement ,and the same time you are keep saying the same thing over and over with out any logic, Lot of people put an option on the table that you have a choice ,it up to you, You could stay with us ,if you don't like the practice you are welcomed to say good bye and do join with whom you think is the best. Looks like you have "delusion" on the subject that you talking about. sunilabraham |
From: alex esthappan <aesth...@yahoo.com> |
Dear Alex,
1. What do you want to say? Do you want to say all our forefathers from AD 345 to till today were just idiots? Do you want to say that they could not just understand a simple advice given to them by their parents and relatives in their own language? Do they need your interpretation to understand the advice given to them?
2. You cant have the cake and eat it too. If you like to remain the member of Knanaya community, you have to follow its rules and regulations. Leave the community. Take the example of a club. When you take the membership of a club, are you not supposed to follow the dress code of the club?
Take the example of the English medium schools of Kerala. The students are forced to wear the western outfits like the pants, belts, ties,..etc.Why are they not allowed to wear simple mundu and shirt? People like you may ask is it not their birth right to wear their ethnic dresses? Have you ever thought why do all students follow the rules? The answer is simple: if you are the student of that school, you have to follow its rules.
Or take another example of Credit Cards, if you do not pay them back in time, you are charged an amount as fine. Along with the fine they also charge a huge interst. Why do they give you two punishments for a single fault? The answer is very simple: if you are not ready to follow their rules, dont take their cards. So simple as that.
If you allow a Kna guy who marries a non-kna girl to be in the community, what about the guys who did the same thing a 100 years ago? How will you rectify that? If their children and grandchildren will also come to claim their rights, what answers do you have for them? I dont think the community should open the pandora's box now. We like to follow the simple logic. Those who really like the community will always try to be in the community, following its rules and regulations.
3. You can never compare endogamy with untouchability and caste system. Untouchability and caste system harm others. We the Knanayas do not harm any body. We follow certain traditions in our community without harming others in any way. Those who do not like to follow the traditions with us are always encouraged to leave. What injustice are you seeing in that?
You cant always disregard the will and wishes of the majority. The majority has always the right to decide what is best for them. The outsiders cant take decisions for them.In UK, even an idiot can be the ruler of the country, if he is the son of a king. To an outsider like me, the practice looks a little odd and injust.Are there not more efficient people available in that country to lead such a great country? Should the country not in the hands of capable people? But who am I to decide what is best for them? The English(majority of them) like the son of their king as the next ruler, even if he is an idiot.
The Cubans have Mr. Fidel Castro as their ruler for many decades without any proper elections. But the majority of the Cubans like it that way. To you and me, it may not look as a nice and just practice. But why should the others like you and me worry too much about that? Let the Cubans and the English decide what is best for them. In the samme way, let the Knanayas decide what is best for them.
Thanks
Jaimon
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 alex esthappan wrote :
>Jaimon,
> 1. In my interpretation “Bandhangal” means relationships, not just purity. When we exclude our brethren, we are breaking our relationship with them and thereby disobeying our forefathers.
> 2. Given a choice most of the Knanaites who marry non-Knas, especially the boys, would stay with us. If they don't want, nobody is going to force them to stay. Forcing a Kna to choose the loved one or the community is not right. They should be free to choose both. The question is not whether one knows the rule, but whether the rule is just, and acceptable to society and the Church. In your theory, it was OK to punish a Harijan who dared to disobey the rule of untouchability. Once upon a time it was possible, but not at this time and age, and in a democracy.
> 3. Democracy is not simply a majority rule. Majority rule is based on certain basic principles, which cannot be infringed by the majority. For example, equality under law is a basic principle. We cannot allow the principle of caste system in a democracy. Knanaya community must treat all its members equally whether one is endogamous, non-endogamous, mixed, or adopted. The majority may want to act in a certain way, but if an individual Kna do not agree, he would react against it, the Church and society would oppose it. If you can take it, then continue the way now. But, don’t tell us to accept the abuses, and unjust rules and traditions. Like untouchability in the Hindu society, the time has come to end untouchability in the Knanaya community.
>
> Alex Kavumpurath
dear alex,
i get a feelings now that , it is the reflection of your feelings...some where ,,it hurts you .. badley in the name of endogamy..thats all.. . please note that in this site..nobody is going to agree..or support ,,u r thoughts..
also nobody will say / or call you a traiter...etc...but at the same times...we only feel you had irational thinking ...and a rationist...so your place is the ratationlist side...that is it.. so dont be sentimental....in any arguments..it is obvious...
joyson..ekm |
Dear Alex,
God never said to marry a Samarian. He said love your Samarians Let me ask you What mistake has ben done by King Solomon? Sunil
|
From: chack...@aol.com <chack...@aol.com> |
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com |
|
|
But I hope Mr. Jose, Kallidukkil will understand better if he thinks over 'What is knanaya?'! His feelings are well understood with due sympathy.
But Knanaya is helpless to accommodate any non-endogamous one, because of its special endogamous nature. If admitted into that Community, then it wont be knanaya anymore! Fortunately or unfortunately, truely, 'That is what is knanaya!' There is no discriminatory treatment towards an adopted child. Same is the treatment for own children, if they are non-endogamous. Mr. Jose would have been aware of this even at the time of adoption.
Allowing a non-knanite to attend a knanaya function is a different thing which the Associations has to decide. Only thing is that the Knanaya Community will not be able to treat a non-endogamous one as a member of that Community.
The problem is with the Community and not with the Church or the family because 'Knanaya' is not a religion but a race/ community.
Kindly go through the following 'Knanaya Laws' for a better understanding.
‘KNANITES’ are the traditional endogamous descendants of Knaithoma or his team. So, they are those born to knanaya couples. A Knanite can never be a non-knanite & vice versa.
‘KNANAYA’ means its endogamous nature & the Community.
KNANAYA COMMUNITY includes all knanites except the ‘KANA’s.
[‘KANA’, in this context, means any knanite who is in wed-lock with a non-knanite] Because he breaks endogamy, the very basis of existance of Knanaya, the Community cannot treat him as its member.
From its beginning, 'ENDOGAMY' has been the strict TRADITION practiced in this Community. So Knanaya is DISTINCT in origin & ancestry
KNANAYA IS NOT A RELIGION, though Knanites are mostly Catholics/Jacobites. It is a community of blood relatives. It surpassed centuries in spite of the Catholics/Jacobites split & the period without knanaya Dioceses/Bishops, only because of the knanaya brotherhood acquired through Endogamy.
K.J.Philip.
--- On Mon, 23/6/08, alex esthappan <aesth...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Even a decade after his marriage, a collogue of mine who is
Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/
Dear Alex,
There are many clubs in my city. I have been not so fortunate to take the memberships of these clubs. If I try to enter any of these clubs, the security at the gate will not allow me to enter their premises as I am not a member. They may even make me to run away from their area.
Will "Jesus be so happy and reward the club authorities for their humanitarian action"? Well,....I am not sure. But I am sure about one thing. Jesus will definitely be unhappy with me for wasting my precious time. As I knew that the members alone will be entertained, I should not have wasted my time to go there.
Mr. Alex, shall I hope that I have made it clear to you?
With regards
Jaimon Mathew
As per KNANAYA LAW
‘KNANITES’ are the traditionkal endogamous descendants of Knaithoma or his team. So, they are those born to knanaya couples. A Knanite can never be a non-knanite & vice versa. |
‘KNANAYA’ means its endogamous nature & the Community. |
|
|
K.J.Philip |
--- On Fri, 27/6/08, sunil abraham <sabrah...@yahoo.com> wrote: |
|
|
I hope Mr. Jose, Kallidukkil will understand better if he thinks over 'What is knanaya?'! His feelings are well understood with due sympathy.
But Knanaya is helpless to accommodate any non-endogamous one, because of its special endogamous nature. If admitted into that Community, then it wont be knanaya anymore! Fortunately or unfortunately, truely, 'That is what is knanaya!' There is no discriminatory treatment towards an adopted child. Same is the treatment for own children, if they are non-endogamous. Mr. Jose would have been aware of this even at the time of adoption.
Allowing a non-knanite to attend a knanaya function is a different thing which the Associations has to decide. Only thing is that the Knanaya Community will not be able to accept a non-endogamous one as a member of that Community.
The problem is with the Community and not with the Church or the family because 'Knanaya' is not a religion but a race/ community.
Kindly go through the following 'Knanaya Laws' for a better understanding.
‘KNANITES’ are the traditional endogamous descendants of Knaithoma or his team. So, they are those born to knanaya couples. A Knanite can never be a non-knanite & vice versa.
‘KNANAYA’ means its endogamous nature & the Community.
KNANAYA COMMUNITY includes all knanites except the ‘KANA’s.
[‘KANA’, in this context, means any knanite who is in wed-lock with a non-knanite] Because he breaks endogamy, the very basis of existance of Knanaya, the Community cannot accept him as its member.
From its beginning, 'ENDOGAMY' has been the strict TRADITION practiced in this Community. So Knanaya is DISTINCT in origin & ancestry
KNANAYA IS NOT A RELIGION, though Knanites are mostly Catholics/Jacobites. It is a community of blood relatives. It surpassed centuries in spite of the Catholics/Jacobites split & the period without knanaya Dioceses/Bishops, only because of the knanaya brotherhood acquired through Endogamy.
K.J.Philip.
--- On Mon, 23/6/08, alex esthappan <aesth...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: alex esthappan <aesth...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Knanaya Family] Cruelty towards Adopted Children
> To: knanay...@yahoogroups.com, knanay...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: jaimo...@rediffmail.com, tanim...@yahoo.com, joelj...@yahoo.com, marm...@yahoo.com, muthol...@yahoo.com, sjpac...@yahoo.com, pres...@ikccny.com, joeth...@yahoo.com, thcy...@yahoo.com, cyria...@yahoo.com, edma...@hotmail.com, dominic...@hotmail.com, josek...@yahoo.com, pious...@optonline.net, spo...@gmail.com, Luk...@aol.com
> Date: Monday, 23 June, 2008, 6:03 PM
Meet people who discuss and share your passions. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/bestofyahoo/
But Knanaya is helpless to accommodate any non-endogamous one, because of its special endogamous nature. If admitted into that Community, then it wont be knanaya anymore! Fortunately or unfortunately, truely, 'That is what is knanaya!' There is no discriminatory treatment towards an adopted child. Same is the treatment for own children, if they are non-endogamous. Mr. Jose would have been aware of this even at the time of adoption.
Allowing a non-knanite to attend a knanaya function is a different thing which the Associations has to decide. Only thing is that the Knanaya Community will not be able to accept a non-endogamous one as a member of that Community.
The problem is with the Community and not with the Church or the family because 'Knanaya' is not a religion but a race/ community.
Kindly go through the following 'Knanaya Laws' for a better understanding.
‘KNANITES’ are the traditional endogamous descendants of Knaithoma or his team. So, they are those born to knanaya couples. A Knanite can never be a non-knanite & vice versa.
‘KNANAYA’ means its endogamous nature & the Community.
KNANAYA COMMUNITY includes all knanites except the ‘KANA’s.
[‘KANA’, in this context, means any knanite who is in wed-lock with a non-knanite] Because he breaks endogamy, the very basis of existance of Knanaya, the Community cannot accept him as its member.
From its beginning, 'ENDOGAMY' has been the strict TRADITION practiced in this Community. So Knanaya is DISTINCT in origin & ancestry
KNANAYA IS NOT A RELIGION, though Knanites are mostly Catholics/Jacobites. It is a community of blood relatives. It surpassed centuries in spite of the Catholics/Jacobites split & the period without knanaya Dioceses/Bishops, only because of the knanaya brotherhood acquired through Endogamy.
K.J.Philip.
--- On Sat, 28/6/08, jaimon mathew <jaimo...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your favourite Yahoo! group at http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/