thorny Euphorbia sp.

[Muthu Karthick]

Dear all,

descriptions match this thorny shrub as Euphorbia antiquorum. I suspect this to be a different species owing to the colour of flowers. Please

help to solve this. 

Could this be E. tortilis?

Location: Sathyamangalam wls; 300 msl

Date: 15 Dec 2010

--
Muthu Karthick, N
Junior Research Fellow
Care Earth Trust

#15, second main road,

Thillai ganga nagar,
Chennai - 600 061

Mob: 09626833911
www.careearthtrust.org

[Gurcharan Singh]

Muthu ji 

I would go with E. antiquurum, because the angles are distinctly 3-winged, the wings are running almost straight. In E. tortilis the angles are not that promently winged, they are lobulate with stout paired spines on lobes, and most importantly the angles are spirally twisted like we have in E. neriifolia where of course the angles are not that prominents, and there are 5 spiral rows.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Pardeshi S.]

the young inflorescence appears green. once the ivary is formed it
would impart the reddish/ purplish tone.

Regards
Satish Pardeshi

On Feb 1, 4:31 pm, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Muthu ji
> I would go with E. antiquurum, because the angles are distinctly 3-winged,
> the wings are running almost straight. In E. tortilis the angles are not
> that promently winged, they are lobulate with stout paired spines on lobes,
> and most importantly the angles are spirally twisted like we have in E.
> neriifolia where of course the angles are not that prominents, and there are
> 5 spiral rows.
>
> --
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Retired  Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.

> Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Muthu Karthick <nmk....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear all,

> > descriptions match this thorny shrub as *Euphorbia antiquorum*. I suspect

> > this to be a different species owing to the colour of flowers. Please
> > help to solve this.

> > Could this be *E. tortilis*?

[tanay bose]

Euphorbia antiquorum

Tanay

--

Tanay Bose

Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant.
Department of Botany.
University of British Columbia .
3529-6270 University Blvd.
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada)
Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile)

           604-822-2019 (Lab)

           604-822-6089  (Fax)

ta...@interchange.ubc.ca

Webpages: 

http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/mberbee.html

http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/gradstud.html

https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/

[Usha Desai]

E. antqourum....nice picture of Praying mantis in the last picture,preying for prey
Thanks for sharing.E antquorum is flowering all over Mumbai.
Usha Desai

[Muthu Karthick]

Thank you all, and Pardeshiji cleared my doubt on inflorescence colour.

[Muthu Karthick]

Dear all, 

These plants are from the same locality. Kindly excuse me for mixing two species(?) in the same post. Please guide me in this morphology of Euphorbia spp. 

The previous plant posted have straight grooves and not that of E. antiquorum. Is this any physical variation or totally the species is different?

--
Muthu Karthick, N

Care Earth Trust

#15, second main road,

Thillai ganga nagar,
Chennai - 600 061

Mob: 0091 96268 33911
www.careearthtrust.org

[Rashida Atthar]

Muthu ji, I happened to see  E. antiquorum L. at Rani baug, Mumbai on 6 Feb 2011. Attaching the pictures of the one identifed by Dr. Almeida as l E. Antiquorum L. matching with type.  Just next to it is another species which as Sir said goes as E. antiquorum, but it is not matching the type. Attaching that too for comparison. 

 

To me both your  sets do not match, but perhaps the second set is close to E. antiquorum.  Hope this helps!

 

regards,

Rashida. 

[Pankaj Kumar]

Dear Muthu
Here is the lectotype of Euphorbia antiquorum L.
Lectotype : Herb. Clifford: 196, Euphorbia 1 (BM-000628669)
Designated by: Wijnands in Bot. Commelins : 97 (1983)
You can clearly make out which is the real Euphorbia antiquorum.

There is another species called Euphorbia royleana. Kindly check your
plant with that description. I am not sure if this plant is found in
South India but it is supposed to be widespread from Pakistan to
Taiwan. I assume I have seen it in Uttarakhand as well as Rajasthan.

Regards
Pankaj

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Dr Pankaj Kumar
<sahani...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Muthu Karthick <nmk....@gmail.com>
> Date: Feb 15, 12:08 pm
> Subject: thorny Euphorbia sp.
> To: efloraofindia
>
>
> Dear all,
> These plants are from the same locality. Kindly excuse me for mixing
> two

> species(?) in the same post. Please guide me in this morphology of *
> Euphorbia* spp.
>
> The previous plant posted have straight grooves and not that of *E.
> antiquorum*. Is this any physical variation or totally the species is
> different?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Muthu Karthick <nmk....@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>> Thank you all, and Pardeshiji cleared my doubt on inflorescence colour.
>

>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Usha Desai <ushande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> E. antqourum....nice picture of Praying mantis in the last picture,preying

>>> for prey[?]

>>> Thanks for sharing.E antquorum is flowering all over Mumbai.
>>> Usha Desai
>

>>> On 1 February 2011 20:11, tanay bose <tanaybos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> *Euphorbia antiquorum*
>>>> ***Tanay
>>>> *

>>>> *Tanay Bose*

>>>> Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant.
>>>> Department of Botany.
>>>> University of British Columbia .
>>>> 3529-6270 University Blvd.
>>>> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada)
>>>> Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile)
>>>>            604-822-2019 (Lab)
>>>>            604-822-6089  (Fax)
>>>> ta...@interchange.ubc.ca

>>>> *Webpages:*

>>>>http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/mberbee.html
>>>>http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/gradstud.html
>>>>https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/
>
>> --
>> Muthu Karthick, N
>> Junior Research Fellow
>> Care Earth Trust
>> #15, second main road,
>> Thillai ganga nagar,
>> Chennai - 600 061
>> Mob: 09626833911
>>www.careearthtrust.org
>
> --
> Muthu Karthick, N
> Care Earth Trust
> #15, second main road,
> Thillai ganga nagar,
> Chennai - 600 061
> Mob: 0091 96268 33911www.careearthtrust.org
>

>  360.gif
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>  E antiquorum (3).jpg
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>  a 599.jpg
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>  a 600.jpg
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>  b 235.jpg
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>  b 236.jpg
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>  E antiquorum.jpg
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>  E antiquorum (1).jpg
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>
>  E antiquorum (2).jpg
> 210KViewDownload

--
***********************************************
"TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!"

Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae)
Research Associate
Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project
Department of Habitat Ecology
Wildlife Institute of India
Post Box # 18
Dehradun - 248001, India

[Pankaj Kumar]

Just wanted to add. Euphorbia is a very big group and one most
interesting thing is, the genus Euphorbia has two type species,
Euphorbia antiquorum and Euphirbia serrata. I never heard a genus with
two types before. If anyone else knows then please do add to our
information.
Kew has a list of around over 5000 names of which only ~2000 names are
accepted. That itself depicts the taxonomic complications here.
Regards
Pankaj

[Gurcharan Singh]

Muthu ji

Your two sets of plants seem to be the same E. antiquorum , only the matter of older and younger branches: All have distinctly 3-winged stems with straight wings.

Rashida ji your first three plants are E. antiquorum without any doubt, but there is no reason to confuse the fourth photograph. It is without any wings and with spines which are spirally arranged. It should be E. neriifolia. This  key from Flora of China should help in separating often confused species

4 (3)	Stems ± terete, leaves inserted on spirally arranged tubercles, spine shield widely separated.		29 E. neriifolia
+	Stems winged or ribbed, leaves arranged along ribs, spines shields often ± contiguous		(5)
5 (4)	Stem 3(or 4)-winged, wings thin and irregularly dentate, 1-2 cm wide.		30 E. antiquorum
+	Stem 5-7-angular, angles impressed and flat, irregularly repand-dentate.

                                                                                                                         31 E. royleana

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Pankaj Kumar]

Thanks for the detail. I totally forgot about neriifolia.

If you look at the second group of pics shared by Mr. Muthu, I think there are two species. Secondly, in the lectotype, the wings are not straight. I have seen both of these plants myself in gardens, and I always thought one of them to be hybrid. But you are more experienced so you must be having a better idea.

Thanks again.

Regards

Pankaj

[Gurcharan Singh]

Pankaj ji

Perhaps this image should clarify what I meant by straight and spirally running wings. E. tortilis has spirally running and E. antiquorum straight. 

http://www.aridlands.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=2860&osCsid=gm3v4gonrocedtfv9d3c9kqnn4

If you look carefully the type specimen cited by you also has straight wings.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Gurcharan Singh]

Here is my photograph where you can see both young and old branches in the same plant.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Rashida Atthar]

Great Sir. Thankyou so much for the clarification and pictures. Euphorbiaceae week is more than  three week away, but the interest is generated from now ! 

 

regards,

Rashida.  

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Pankaj Kumar]

Thanks for sharing the pic and link. I understood what you meant. I just imagine if those contractions and swelling are due to environmental factors or that is a consistent character of this taxa? because that character is also evident in image of the Lectotype. Undoubtedly Euphorbias are complicated!!

Pankaj

[Muthu Karthick]

Yes Pankajji, the environmental factors might play a role in the morphology of this genus. From Singhji's statement and Rashidaji's pictures, its clear that this Euphorbia antiquorum have much variations. However the plant does not matches with E.royleana. What I had posted are young and old plants of the same species.

Many  thanks Pankajji, Singhji and Rashidaji for your informative links and inputs.

[Pankaj Kumar]

Dear Muthu

Yes, I also think that just because of dryness the tip of these plants do get constricted and at the same time, the wings on the stem get constricted as well. But there are some taxa in Euphorbia and others too, in which such characters are genotypic. Hope you understand my point there. Yes the plant was not E. royleana. As I said before, I completely forgot about E. neriifolia.

Euphorbia is very complicated, jut put together Euphorbia thymifolia and Euphorbia cotinifolia and without flowers and latex, you dont find anything common!!

Regards

Pankaj