Cassia absus

[Satish Phadke]

Cassia absus
Family : Caesalpiniaceae
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erect annual herb. 6 - 18 inches.
Stems and branches hairy. Leaves long-petioled. Rachis viscous hairy grooved. Petiole 2-2.5 cm long.Stipules 3 mm subulate.
Leaflets 2 pairs Very oblique elliptic oblong- elliptic obovate.
Flowers Terminal/ Leaf opposed racemes. Pedicel short viscous hairy. Bracts and bracteoles present.
Calyx hairy 4mm segments oblong obtuse subequal.
Petals 6mm obovate cuneate, reddish yellow tender veined.
Stamens 5 all perfect equal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to match the above characters given in Cooke's flora.
Only difference found: The flower above is solitary and it is not reddish.
Please comment.
Regards

--
Dr Satish Phadke

[hari lal]

very nice information thanks sir for information

--
HARI SHANKAR LAL
AT-SHIV KUTIR
PO-BARA BAZAR
DIST-HAZARIBAG
PIN-825301
JHARKHAND,INDIA
MOBILE-9431530563
EMAIL-t...@gmail.com

[rajdeo singh]

Hello Satish ji,

This is not Cassia absus,

its Cassia uniflora.

***
Rajdeo Singh
Project fellow
St. Xavier's College,
Mumbai

[H S]

Correct genus for this plant is Chamaecrista

regards,

--

 - H.S.

A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of stone

[Vijayasankar]

Agree with Rajdeo ji, it is not Cassia absus. If it is C. uniflora, then the correct genus is Senna (S. uniflora), but to me it doesn't look like S. uniflora either. Pl c this link https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/669102a1420b541f?fwc=1&hl=en

 

Regards 

 

Vijayasankar Raman
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi

[H S]

all are C. uniflora

 

regards,

[Gurcharan Singh]

Friends 

To me it again appears to be a case where we are discussing the identity of a plant without considering authority.

It also highlights the fact that many of us give our decisions without trying to justify our decision or negate others' conclusion

Let me first point out that there is no accepted name such as Chamaecrista uniflora, nor any accepted species name Cassia uniflora

Now coming back to Cassia uniflora, there are two taxa by that name

1. Cassia uniflora Mill., characterised by 5-9 leaflets, flowers 2-6 together. This is now correctly known as 

Senna uniflora (Mill.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby

http://achutha.net/WeedWatch.html

2. Senna uniflora Spreng., a very distinct plant with four leaflets arranged like a cross and with single flower. this is now correctly known as 

Chamaecrista ramosa (Vogel) H.S.Irwin & Barneby

http://floredeguyane.piwigo.com/index?/category/28-chamaecrista_ramosa

I think Vijayasankar ji is correct in saying that Senna uniflora is the plant already discussed on our website for which he has provided the link. 

And till we find a better choice, the best match is still Cassia absus L. now correctly known as

Chamaecrista absus (L.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[H S]

Cassia absus never come in Single flower

 

regards,

[Satish Phadke]

I am keeping a watch on the interesting discussion and learning through this.
All comments are welcome.
There were several plants in the area all about 6 inches or so tall They had two pairs of leaflets each.......prompting me about the identity of S.absus
If I happen to visit the area again I will try to extract some more characters. Would any one like to suggest to check for some specific character Pl. let me know.
Thanks and Regards.
Dr Phadke

--
Dr Satish Phadke

[Gurcharan Singh]

Satish ji

Please keep a watch on

1. number of leaflets

2. number of flowers in each cluster/raceme/leaf axil

3. diameter of flower

4. most important number of stamens, their relative size, how many have well-developed anthers, how many with sterile staminodes

5. fruit size, rounded or flat, length and breadth

Well H S, the aim of my detailed mail to negate what you had been trying to stress. I never concluded that it is S. absus, only that it is better match in light of your identification having been rejected.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Satish Phadke]

I rechecked about similar plants in the vicinity.
I agree with Rajdeo singh ji
This appears to be a small plant of Cassia uniflora only.
Similar small plants were showing two leflets each but the characters of leaves appear close to C.uniflora rather than C.absus.

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Satish Phadke <drsmp...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Dr Satish Phadke

[Giby Kuriakose]

Yes this is Cassia uniflora now known as Senna uniflora (Mill.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby.

If you check the compound leaves carefully, you can see the stalked yellow glands on the rachis in between leaflets (mostly with basal 1-2 pairs). If they (stalked yellow glands) are not there in any of the leaves this can be some other species.  

Regards,

Giby

--
GIBY KURIAKOSE PhD
Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE),
Royal Enclave,
Jakkur Post, Srirampura
Bangalore- 560064
India
Phone - +91 9448714856 (Mobile)
visit my pictures @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/giby

[Satish Phadke]

Yes I remember Aparna Watve ji had told me about the commonest similar looking plant without glands is Cassia tora.

--
Dr Satish Phadke

[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear Satish ji

Thanks for your conclusion, but I would like you to consider a few things before taking a final decision.

I have not seen this plant in nature myself but judging from the available information, I fear it never has 4 leaflets, not to say of 2 leaflets that you write.  

Senna uniflora is an American weed, and only recently introduced in India (Not reported in FBI), and we can't expect it to undergo drastic changes in India over a short period of time.

From all sources of information the species usually has 4 pairs of leaflets (and not 4 leaflets) though the number may varry from 3-5 pairs. Some identifications get fixed in mind and difficult to forget. My colleagues would fight with me when I would tell them spinach they are using in their practicals is not Spinaceae oleracea, rather leafy vegetable a variety of Beta vulgaris. It took me more than 10 years to make them understand when they gave this plant in taxonomy classes. The description of two is poles apart.

  

I request you to kindly go through the attached paper, study the plants and then decide.

http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/6352/1/NPR%208(5)%20525-527.pdf

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

I am not saying that this is Senna absus, but just for infrmation S. absus is a species long established in India, has four leaflets and also a gland between the leaflets.

Senna unflora has been introduced in in many places in India including Pune, Karanataka and other places, and you and other members may soon find specimens with true S. uniflora characters.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Sorry Satish ji

Some mix up in formatting earlier. here is correct form

Dear Satish ji

Thanks for your conclusion, but I would like you to consider a few things before taking a final decision.

I have not seen this plant in nature myself but judging from the available information, I fear it never has 4 leaflets, not to say of 2 leaflets that you write.  

Senna uniflora is an American weed, and only recently introduced in India (Not reported in FBI), and we can't expect it to undergo drastic changes in India over a short period of time.

From all sources of information the species usually has 4 pairs of leaflets (and not 4 leaflets) though the number may varry from 3-5 pairs. Some identifications get fixed in mind and difficult to forget. My colleagues would fight with me when I would tell them spinach they are using in their practicals is not Spinaceae oleracea, rather leafy vegetable a variety of Beta vulgaris. It took me more than 10 years to make them understand when they gave this plant in taxonomy classes. The description of two is poles apart.

  

I request you to kindly go through the attached paper, study the plants and then decide.

http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/6352/1/NPR%208(5)%20525-527.pdf

I am not saying that this is Senna absus, but just for infrmation S. absus is a species long established in India, has four leaflets and also a gland between the leaflets.

Senna unflora has been introduced in in many places in India including Pune, Karanataka and other places, and you and other members may soon find specimens with true S. uniflora characters.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Giby Kuriakose]

Dear Gurcharan ji,

Senna uniflora (Mill.) H.S.Irwin & Barne has several synonyms as per the plant list (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/ild-21536) and Cassia sericea is one among them. 

C. sericea has been mentioned in several flora books such as Flora of Coorg (Murthy & Yoganarasimhan, 1990), Flora of Udupi (Bhat, 2003) etc. 

I too got this plant recently and photographed in detail from Bangalore. I shall upload them soon. I have identified my specimen by running the key as C. sericea and while checking the name in the plant list I found that this is S. uniflora now. 

Regards

Giby

[Giby Kuriakose]

Here are my pictures from Bangalore 

Regards,

Giby

[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear Giby ji

I think you have gone through the paper for which I have sent the link. When we are considering the introduced species we should rely more on the Books pertaining to that area and not local floras. If you have gone through the cited paper you will realize that key in the genus is often based on number of leaflets as one character (besides others). This plant as Satish ji has mentioned and seen in the photograph has only four leaflets, and Satish ji has seen some with only two leaflets. How can we believe an introduced weed which is supposed to have generally 4 pairs of leaflets (3-5 pairs) can have only 2-4 leaflets in our area, Please give serious thought to it. I am attaching the paper in case you did not read it.

And yes if I am providing you the detailed nomenclature I must be knowing all its synonyms including C. sericea,,

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Gurcharan Singh]

Yes Giby ji

Your plant has clearly four pairs of leaflets. This is what I have been stressing all through.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Satish Phadke]

Agreed Gurcharan ji
We and Science (I mean Scientific community) require many more people with similar mind as yours.Nothing should be taken for granted unless one personally checks and satisfied about it.
I am ready to check the plant further. You have a valid point there.
I have not gone in details of the paper but will do so.
Regarding my plant.....I want to stress that There are quite a few plants (So called Cassia uniflora ;attaching a picture) with similar looking flowers and leaves. Some plants in the group are very small(^inches or so) producing flowers and leaves very similar to these but only with two twigs having two pairs of leaflets as in earlier posted picture. Can't a plant have less number of leaflets? The pods are also seen in some which might be helpful.

--
Dr Satish Phadke

[Gurcharan Singh]

Satish ji

The whole problem in this thread is because where there are four leaflets (two pairs) you are counting them as two leaflets, and where they are eight (4 pairs) you count them as 4. I had doubt about this after seeing Giby ji's photographs, but your upload now confirms it.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Giby Kuriakose]

Dear sir,

I too got 2 pairs of leaflets in my plants. I have checked several plants around and most of them having 2 pairs of leaflets as well.

Now there are 2-4 leaflets (I havent seen 5 pairs yet) on the same plant. 

I shall upload pictures if necessary. 

Regards

Giby

[Gurcharan Singh]

Giby ji

How could you also make the same mistake.? Your first photograph clearly shows 4 pairs (8 leaflets) of leaflets, Satish ji first photograph 3 pairs (6 leaflets) and second 4 pairs (8 leaflets). He last two photographs of Satish ji are an abberation and should be taken as normal.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Giby Kuriakose]

Here, in Bangalore also there are bigger and smaller plants both bear 2-4 paired leaflets. 

Regards,

Giby

[Gurcharan Singh]

Yes Giby ji

That is what I had been impressing upon. 4 pairs is the prevalent number, range 3-5 pairs in S. uniflora, and 2 pairs a rarety or abberation. I think you must have gone through the paper enclosed and links of some American works.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[shrikant ingalhalikar]

Dear All,
Stamens 5, glands absent, leaflets 2 pairs is C. absus, whereas C.
uniflora has stamens 7, glands present and leaflets 4-5 pairs. C.
absus is a monsoon herb, flowers may have differed due to being out of
season. Regards, Shrikant

On Oct 11, 9:58 pm, Satish Phadke <drsmpha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Cassia absus*
> Family : Caesalpiniaceae
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-------------

> Erect annual herb. 6 - 18 inches.
> Stems and branches hairy. Leaves long-petioled. Rachis viscous hairy
> grooved. Petiole 2-2.5 cm long.Stipules 3 mm subulate.
> Leaflets 2 pairs Very oblique elliptic oblong- elliptic obovate.
> Flowers Terminal/ Leaf opposed racemes. Pedicel short viscous hairy. Bracts
> and bracteoles present.
> Calyx hairy 4mm segments oblong obtuse subequal.
> Petals 6mm obovate cuneate, reddish yellow tender veined.
> Stamens 5 all perfect equal.

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----------------------

> I tried to match the above characters given in Cooke's flora.
> Only difference found: The flower above is solitary and it is not reddish.
> Please comment.
> Regards
>
> --
> Dr Satish Phadke
>

>  _MG_4662s.jpg
> 109KViewDownload
>
>  _MG_4659s.jpg
> 165KViewDownload
>
>  _MG_4660s.jpg
> 121KViewDownload

[Giby Kuriakose]

Yes, I read the paper and now while looking at the picture I suspect their plant also shows 2 paired leaflets (Plate 2 E right side uppermost leaf) 

Regards,

Giby

[Giby Kuriakose]

The plant that I handled has characters of C. uniflora as per the key that Shrikant ji given except the number of leaflets are 2-4. 

Now if Satish ji can tell us the number of stamens (it is cluttered hence counting the same from the picture is difficult)  and glands (since the leaflets are closed glands are not seen in the pictures) in his plant with 2 paired leaflets things would be clear.

Regards,

Giby 

[Gurcharan Singh]

Only in the uppermost leaf. Our general description should always be based on lower or middle leaves. Upper most leaves in almost all plants are reduced in size as well as number on leaflets.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Gurcharan Singh]

Giby ji you are repeatedly confusing between 2-4 pairs with 2-4 leaflets, what Satish ji has also been doing.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Giby Kuriakose]

Sorry about that please read it as .... except the number of leaflets are 2-4 pairs.

Regards,

Giby

[Gurcharan Singh]

Thanks Giby ji

My concern is that when we are identifying on the basis of photographs, the inputs from the person who uploads the photographs is very important in every species. I was really confused when Satish ji reported that in most plants he saw 4 leaflets, and in some 2 leaflets. Only when you uploaded your photographs I noticed that your plant had mostly 4 pairs of leaflets, and perhaps you ignored what Satish ji wrote, or else his and your plants were different. Only when I  he uploaded his photographs I realized that he confused number with pairs, and that makes a lot of difference. Why books don't mention (and we should also not) 2 pairs, the reason is that descriptions are mostly based on lower and middle leaves, and not uppermost leaves. Even some uppermost leaves in compound leaves be reduced to simple blade.

Any way thanks for this lively and learning discussion. Have a nice sleep.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Satish Phadke]

I wanted to mention 2 pairs of leaflets in some plants i.e. 4 leaflets in total in those small plants. It might have created some confusion. The label in recent pictures might be wrong but the pictures are self explanatory.Any way interesting discussion.

--
Dr Satish Phadke