Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti

[Satish Phadke]

Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa
This plant was observed in Spiti Himalaya.
I had posted it earlier and was IDed as  Potentilla eriocarpa.
Please validate.

--
Dr Satish Phadke

[Gurcharan Singh]

Yes it tallies with P. eriocarpa, especially the close ups

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

Sorry this looks absolutely nothing like P.eriocarpa - which is a cliff-dwelling species.  The foliage is not silky-hairy.

Can you say the altitude it was photographed?  There are a number of Potentillas which are difficult to tell apart.

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

I draw your attention to the other two posts, correctly identified as P.eriocarpa incl.  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/pCqjehYgfAE.

As you will see, these specimens are VERY different to the plants you photographed and were in the typical habitat.

P.eriocarpa is found on wet cliffs part of the way up the Rohtang.  I have some images from there which I plan to post.

On Friday, October 7, 2011 at 9:34:10 AM UTC+1, Satish Phadke wrote:

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot,  Chadwell ji.

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot,  Chadwell ji.

--

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Yes it tallies with P. eriocarpa, especially the close ups - from Singh ji

Sorry this looks absolutely nothing like P.eriocarpa - which is a cliff-dwelling species.  The foliage is not silky-hairy.

Can you say the altitude it was photographed?  There are a number of Potentillas which are difficult to tell apart. - from Chadwell ji

I draw your attention to the other two posts, correctly identified as P.eriocarpa incl.  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/pCqjehYgfAE. As you will see, these specimens are VERY different to the plants you photographed and were in the typical habitat. P.eriocarpa is found on wet cliffs part of the way up the Rohtang.  I have some images from there which I plan to post.

-- from Chadwell ji

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Satish Phadke <drsmp...@gmail.com>
Date: 7 October 2011 at 14:04
Subject: [efloraofindia:86430] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti
To: indiantreepix <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>


Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa
This plant was observed in Spiti Himalaya.
I had posted it earlier and was IDed as  Potentilla eriocarpa.
Please validate.

--
Dr Satish Phadke

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Sekar ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: chandra sekar
Date: 1 February 2017 at 18:23
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:86430] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti
To: jmg...@gmail.com


Please check with Potentilla argyrophylla...?

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 18:06:32 +0530 "J.M. Garg" wrote

>

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:









Yes it tallies with P. eriocarpa, especially the close ups - from Singh ji

Sorry this looks absolutely nothing like P.eriocarpa - which is a cliff-dwelling species.  The foliage is not silky-hairy.Can you say the altitude it was photographed?  There are a number of Potentillas which are difficult to tell apart. - from Chadwell ji








I draw your attention to the other two posts, correctly identified as P.eriocarpa incl.  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/pCqjehYgfAE.As you will see, these specimens are VERY different to the plants you photographed and were in the typical habitat.P.eriocarpa is found on wet cliffs part of the way up the Rohtang.  I have some images from there which I plan to post.-- from Chadwell ji 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Satish Phadke
Date: 7 October 2011 at 14:04
Subject: [efloraofindia:86430] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti
To: indiantreepix

Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa
This plant was observed in Spiti Himalaya.
I had posted it earlier and was IDed as  Potentilla eriocarpa.
Please validate.
--
Dr Satish Phadke




--
With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian
Flora & Fauna'Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 



For identification,
learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join
our Efloraofindia
Google e-group (largest
in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or
Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than
11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A
Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

Dr. K. Chandra Sekar
Scientist-D
G.B. Pant National Institute of Himalayan Environment and Sustainable Development,
(An Autonomous Institute of Ministry of Environment, Forest & Climate Change, Govt. of India)
Kosi - Katarmal,
Almora - 263 643
Uttarakhand, India

[D.S Rawat]

Not sure but may be P. argyrophylla.

DSRawat Pantnagar

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr D.S. Rawat

Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA

eflorapantnagar displaying wild flora of Pantnagar

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks,  Rawat ji

[C CHADWELL]

I agree that it has similarities to what was Potentilla argyrophylla but I suspect it MIGHT

be another taxon.

As things stand best just to have it as Potentilla sp.

Potentilla is a more complicated genus that appreciated.

There are e.g. 33 species of Potentilla recorded by Dickore & Klimes (2005) from Ladakh

not to mention 7 sub-specific taxa and a hybrid. 

MORE than a dozen of which I had not heard of before!   They listed BOTH P.atrosanguinea and

P.argyrophylla.  My own informal check-list of Ladakh flora begun in the 1980s only had 14 species!!

It is clear that I need to spend some time familiarising myself with these additional species BEFORE I can

MEANINGFULLY examine the images from Spiti - it is likely that a number of these unfamiliar species from

Ladakh may well occur in Spiti as well.  There is also the distinct possibility that other species have been

recognised/recorded from Spiti in the past 10-20 years, which were not known previously.  So one

MUST NOT only consider species known/recognised IN THE PAST.

Thus, until we have a specialist in Potentilla or at least someone who has scrutinised ALL known

species from this region that a sound identification of the plant mistakenly thought to be P.eriocarpa, can RELIABLY

arrived at.  It is always much easier to say what a plant is not, than be confident as to what it is.

In the mean-time, members should know a little about Potentilla argyrophylla Wall. ex Lehm.

Stewart recorded this particularly var. lecochroa usually as a size smaller and more common at higher

altitudes incl. Ladakh and Kashmir to 4500m.

He also recognised P.atrosanguinea Lodd. - not very common in Kashmir.  He separated var. cataclines -

which he recorded from parts of Ladakh @ 3000-3900m.  He thought this taxon was analogous to P.

argyrophylla var. lecochroa but the flowers were carmine or reddish, not as dark as P.atrosanguinea -

he felt may be a hybrid.

Whereas Flowers of the Himalaya relegated P.argyrophylla to a synonym of P.atrosanguinea - which followed

the assessment of Potentilla by H,Ohashi in 'Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal' (which referred to J.Sokak's

Taxonomy of Phytogeography of Potentilla in 1970.

I have seen what I understand to be P.atrosanguinea in H.P. incl. on the Rohtang.  I have seen what I understood to be P.

argyrophylla in Ladakh.  I consider them to be distinct taxa but leave it to full-time taxonomists to decide a what level -

species, subspecies, varieties....

As for Flora of Lahaul-Spiti -this lists MANY fewer species of Potentilla.  The authors (unfortunately there is a misspelling here

P.atrisanguinea) record P.atrosanguinea var. atrosanguinea as common in alpine meadows & glacial moraines at Maran Pass,

Spiti; P.atrosanguinea var. argyrophylla as common in alpine meadows and glacial moraines at Khoksar - I suspect they may

have misidentified this, mistaking what was a different species.

They distinguish on the basis of red-purple flowers cf. yellow flowers.  What about specimens with orange flowers?  It would be

no surprise to find there are actually 10 (or a larger number) MORE species of Potentilla in Lahaul-Spiti than this Flora records....

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: chrischa...@btinternet.com; Satish Phadke <drsmp...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2017, 13:19
Subject: Fwd: Fwd: [efloraofindia:86430] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti

Thanks, Sekar ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: chandra sekar
Date: 1 February 2017 at 18:23
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:86430] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti
To: jmg...@gmail.com


Please check with Potentilla argyrophylla...?

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 18:06:32 +0530 "J.M. Garg" wrote
>

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:









Yes it tallies with P. eriocarpa, especially the close ups - from Singh ji
Sorry this looks absolutely nothing like P.eriocarpa - which is a cliff-dwelling species.  The foliage is not silky-hairy.Can you say the altitude it was photographed?  There are a number of Potentillas which are difficult to tell apart. - from Chadwell ji

I draw your attention to the other two posts, correctly identified as P.eriocarpa incl.  https://groups.google.com/ forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/ pCqjehYgfAE.As you will see, these specimens are VERY different to the plants you photographed and were in the typical habitat.P.eriocarpa is found on wet cliffs part of the way up the Rohtang.  I have some images from there which I plan to post.-- from Chadwell ji 

[C CHADWELL]

See my recent comments about Potentilla argyrophylla and complexities of this genus.  

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: Satish Phadke <drsmp...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2017, 12:36
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:263018] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti

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[C CHADWELL]

See my recent comments about Potentilla argyrophylla and complexities of this genus.  

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Satish Phadke <drsmp...@gmail.com>; C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2017, 4:09
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:86430] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti

[C CHADWELL]

See my recent comments about Potentilla argyrophylla and complexities of this genus.  

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Satish Phadke <drsmp...@gmail.com>; C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2017, 4:09

Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:86430] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti

[C CHADWELL]

See my recent comments about Potentilla argyrophylla and complexities of this genus.  

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: D.S Rawat <drdsrawat...@gmail.com>
To: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>; Satish Phadke <drsmp...@gmail.com>; C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2017, 4:09

Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:263049] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti

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[J.M. Garg]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Date: 4 February 2017 at 04:46
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:86430] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

See my recent comments about Potentilla argyrophylla and complexities of this genus. 

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Satish Phadke <drsmp...@gmail.com>; chrischadwell261@btinternet.com

Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2017, 12:36

Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:86430] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding again for ID

Distributed as  Potentilla species- Spiti Himlayas 

I support P. argyrophylla, now P. atrosanguinea var. argyrophylla

Group discussion at

  Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti (google.com)  

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 9:40:20 AM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Date: 4 February 2017 at 04:46
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:86430] Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

See my recent comments about Potentilla argyrophylla and complexities of this genus. 

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: Satish Phadke <drsmp...@gmail.com>; chrischa...@btinternet.com

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding again for ID

Distributed as  Potentilla species- Spiti Himlayas 

I support P. argyrophylla, now P. atrosanguinea var. argyrophylla

Group discussion at

  Rosaceae week : Potentilla eriocarpa Spiti (google.com)  

[Saroj Kasaju]

I guess close to Potentilla argyrophylla Wall. !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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