plant from North Goa

[renee vyas vyas]

Dear Friends,

 

This too is for identification....this was a huge tree in Candolium, North Goa.

 

Regards,

 

Renee

[Muthu Karthick]

This is Mimusops elengi L. of Sapotaceae.

Dear Vyasji, 

Please follow the posting guidelines of efloraofindia.

Kindly look at http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix/web/detailed-posting-guidelines?_done=/group/indiantreepix%3Fhl%3Den%26&hl=en

and the attached word file.

--
Muthu Karthick, N
Junior Research Fellow
Care Earth Trust
Chennai - 61
www.careearthtrust.org

[ajinkya gadave]

1st and 3rd pictures of sapota tree and flowers..

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:52 PM, renee vyas vyas <renee...@gmail.com> wrote:

[renee vyas vyas]

Muthuji & Ajinkyaji,

 

Thank you very much,

 

Renee

[tanay bose]

Mimusops elengi  we call it BAKUL in bengali

 

Tanay

--
Tanay Bose
Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant
Department of Botany
University of British Columbia
3529-6270 University Blvd.
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada)
Phone: 778-323-4036

[Vijayasankar]

Chrysophyllum cainito, i think.

With regards

Vijayasankar

[Vijayasankar]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: C KUNHIKANNAN <kunhi...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:44656] plant from North Goa
To: Vijayasankar <vijay.b...@gmail.com>


It may be Manilkara hexandra (Roxb.) Dubard, (Syn:Mimusops hexandra Roxb., =Mimusops indica A. DC. )
Kunhikannan

--
Dr. C.Kunhikannan,
Division of Biodiversity,
Institute of Forest Genetics and Tree Breeding,
Forest Campus,  R.S.Puram,
Coimbatore-641002, Tamilnadu.

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

"This is Mimusops elengi L. of Sapotaceae." from Muthu ji.

 

"1st and 3rd pictures of sapota tree and flowers.." from Ajinkya ji.

 

“Chrysophyllum cainito, i think.

With regards

Vijayasankar”

 

“It may be Manilkara hexandra (Roxb.) Dubard, (Syn:Mimusops hexandra Roxb., =Mimusops indica A. DC. )
Kunhikannan ”

--
With regards,
J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg
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[ajinkya gadave]

sapota tree with buds & flowers .

[Yazdy Palia]

I agree with Mr. Ajinkya Ji, It is Sapota. The second picture though
does not look like Sapota.
Regards
Yazdy.

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 6:22 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Usha Desai]

Garg ji
as far as I know Renee got this idied as Manilkara Kauki by Dr.Almeida[flora of Maharashtr by Dr. Almeida Volume 3A page 168]
Renee it will be nice if you can confirm this.Usha

[renee vyas vyas]

Dear Friends,

 

My apologies to all........It has been identified as Manilkara kauki by Dr. Almeida personally. Infact he said he was looking out for the sapling of this tree for quite some time and found only one of it,  in the weekly market of Maupsa (Goa) which takes place every friday.

 

Regards,

 

Renee

[Yazdy Palia]

Dear Renee,
Here is something interesting for you. Manilkara kauki belongs to
Family: Sapotaceae.
I was on the verge of apologizing to you that it was my mistake. In a
way, there is some difference between Sapota leaves and your pictures.
Am attaching the pictures taken from my plant for every one to note
the difference and judge. Before doing so I just did a bit of browsing
and am copying the link
http://www.worldagroforestry.org/sea/Products/AFDbases/af/asp/SpeciesInfo.asp?SpID=18185
Regards
Yazdy

[Gurcharan Singh]

Although not seen these trees personally, I think two things are worth focusing. Renee ji's plant has leaves with long petioles and undersurface of leaves is white. Chrysophyllum cainito has leaves with much smaller petioles and undersurface covered with brownish tomentum. Now comparing the two species of Manilkara, the sapota tree M. sapota has again leaves with much shorter petioles and undersurface is green, whereas M. kauki has distinctly long-petioled leaves white on the undersurface. This fits with the above plant.

Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Gurcharan Singh]

Please give your opinion in light of the following last post by me

lthough not seen these trees personally, I think two things are worth focusing. Renee ji's plant has leaves with long petioles and undersurface of leaves is white. Chrysophyllum cainito has leaves with much smaller petioles and undersurface covered with brownish tomentum. Now comparing the two species of Manilkara, the sapota tree M. sapota has again leaves with much shorter petioles and undersurface is green, whereas M. kauki has distinctly long-petioled leaves white on the undersurface. This fits with the above plant.

Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: renee vyas vyas <renee...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:22 AM
Subject: [efloraofindia:44584] plant from North Goa
To: indian...@googlegroups.com

--

[Yazdy Palia]

I agree with you Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji.
Regards
Yazdy.

[Pankaj Kumar]

This is not Manilkara kauki for sure. The leaf apex is supposed to be
slightly bilobed, here it is acute.
Pankaj

Pankaj

--
***********************************************
"TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!"

Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae)
Research Associate
Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project
Department of Habitat Ecology
Wildlife Institute of India
Post Box # 18
Dehradun - 248001, India

[Pankaj Kumar]

Manilkara roxburghiana by any chance?
Pankaj

[Sharad Kambale]

May be Mimusops elengii

[Yazdy Palia]

Dear Friends,
Here are the pictures I could find under Manilkara Kauki.
Hope the experts could apply their mind on it.
Regards
Yazdy.

[Yazdy Palia]

My apologies I forgot the link.

http://www.google.co.in/images?q=Manilkara+kauki+pictures&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=b_zITOy_LpHIuAO4qICWCQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQsAQwAA&biw=1358&bih=510
regards
Yazdy.

[Pankaj Kumar]

Nothing could be as good as a TYPE I assume. Here it is.
Manilkara kauki, Wallich 4149, K (Upper right hand side plant)
Regards
Pankaj

[Gurcharan Singh]

Not to be carried away by this specimen of M. kauki from Wallich's Catalogue. It has been clearly written on page 449 of volume 3 of Flora of British India that plant appearing as M. kauki is actually M. hexandra. Wallich had in fact mixed up the two species.

As per the information available on the net and link provided by Yazdi ji our plant above should be M. kauki: perhaps the only species among the above discussed with leaves clustered towards apex of branch and white-tomentose lower leaf side (this is more important).

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Gurcharan Singh]

Sorry, I missed upper right hand side plant (No. 4149) in above sheet. Any how it does not have retuse leaves. So to my mind M. kauki is still the best match.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Pankaj Kumar]

This is getting interesting......AND CONFUSING.....being a botanist I
will always prefer to look into type specimens and protologues.

Firstly the link provided by Yazdy sir are of general pics and not for
any authentic site on internet. Even if they are, the leaves there are
more of lanceolate with acute apex.

Secondly, I found description on page 549 (may be by mistake you wrote
449) of volume 3 in Flora of British India. There Hooker clearly says
that the Plant on upper hand Wallich 4149 E, and there is a note on
the sheet which bears original signatures of Wallich as well as Sir J
D Hooker. He has clearly demarkated all the plants on that particular
sheet.

Then I looked into Plants of Coromandel as it has been mentioned for
Manilkara hexandra in Fl. Brit. India by Hook.f. and found following
sketch. Very interestingly, the sketch depicts bilobed apex of the
leaf for Manilkara hexandra.

So I tried to check for the Type of Manilkara hexandra which is
Wallich 4148 which I again found to be a composite herbarium with
multiple plants.

Turning back to Species Plantarum where the original protologue (type
description) of taxa exists, (as Mimosups kauki L. Sp. Pl. 1: 349,
1753), Linne has differentiated the two taxa desribed by him by the
leafs.

Mimosups elengi - foliis alternis remotis [which means: leaves
alternate and remotely placed)
Mimosups kauki - foliis confertis [leaves dense]

If we look at the density of leaves and the length of the petiole
according to Carl Linnaeus and Sir J D Hooker Dr. Gurcharan, then I
dont think, I will call this as dense rather they look same as
Mimusops elengi as they are clearly distant from each other

At the same time if we look at the leaf apex then this cant be M.
kauki atleast. I will prefer to call these pics as unresolved.

Even Hooker writes:
The great difficulty that has been raised over Manilkara kauki ,
Linn., has been due to two causes: 1. Wallich identified his Amherst
plant, the true M. kauki with Roxburgh's Deccan M. hexandra; 2.
botanists, not looking to the fruit and perhaps not having it always
look at, have betaken themselves to the degree of notching of the
staminodes for diagnostic characters.

Regards
Pankaj

[Vijayasankar]

Great analysis Pankaj! But i think the id of this plant is resolved by Dr.Almeida & Dr. Gurcharan as M. kauki, so the thread can be closed.

Description for M. kauki in FBI matches well with the specimen. I think, your doubt about retuse/emarginate leaf apex is due to Wallich's Type specimen, which is actually M. hexandra as also we can see the det in the bottom as well as top right corners of the sheet. M. hexandra is a common coastal/riparian element in southern part of India and it is completely different from the specimen posted here. Cooke in FPB has noted that the fruits are known as Adam's Apple and are eaten in Goa, from the same place where Renee ji has seen this plant.

Regards

Vijayasankar

[Yazdy Palia]

Pankaj Ji, it does not appear to be Mimusops elengii. Please check up the link given below.
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Mimusops+elengii+pictures&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364
Further, am attaching copies of pictures of Sapota which also appears to be bilobed.. However it is an illusion as curved leaves appear bilobed from some angles. At the same time, the tender leaves appear to be off white. I must admit though , I do not know much aobut Manilkara Kauki.
Regards
Yazdy Palia.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Sharad Kambale <sksha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Waitlist reason: Sharad Kambale (sksha...@gmail.com) is not on your Guest List | Approve sender | Approve domain |

May be Mimusops elengii

[Pankaj Kumar]

Dear Sir,

I never said it is elengi, I just said it is not looking like kauki to me, but looking at our long discussion on pictures in another post, I may have to take my words back for kauki too.

Regards

Pankaj

[Mahadeswara Swamy]

The last picture looks like Bassia species. Therefore, check the characters of all the three using a standard flora of the region. Dr. Mahadeswara swamy --- On Thu, 28/10/10, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Pankaj Kumar]

Dear Sir,

"Bassia J.Koenig ex L. Mant. Pl. Altera 555. 1771" of Sapotaceae is an
altogether illegitimate name. The accepted name is

"Bassia All. Misc. Taur. iii. 177. t. 4, 1766" on the basis of
priority pf publication of ICBN. This Bassia belongs to family
Chenopodiaceae.

Regards
Pankaj

--

[Mahadeswara Swamy]

I am not referring to Bassia of Chenopodiaceae, which you have mentioned.    I am not aware of this genus.    I am referring to genus Bassia L of Sapotaceae, under which 4 species exist in South India.    If  the name Bassia  is illegitimate then what is the correct name of the existing Bassia species of Sapotaceae? Under what name they exist know?     Even in Delhi there are two species of Bassia , as described in Trees of Delhi   Check again and offer your comments.  I also solicit comments from learned taxonomists. Dr. Mahadeswara Swamy --- On Fri, 29/10/10, Pankaj Kumar <sahani...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Pankaj Kumar]

I found that rude, but anyways, I have faced even worst on eflora so now such things doesnt bother me anymore.

I have Trees of Delhi in my hand. I cant find any plant described as Bassia there, may be you just checked the index and not the inside story of two taxa you are talking about. Otherwise you must have found the answer yourself if you had checked inside.

There are two Madhuca reported inside:

Madhuca longifolia var. longifolia

Syn: Bassia longifolia

Madhuca longifolia var. latifolia

Syn: Bassia latifolia

The pictures above doesnt belong to Madhuca.

Regards

Pankaj

[Gurcharan Singh]

mahadeswara ji

I think Vijayasankar ji had closed this thread. In future please take care that if the thread is declared closed, it should not be continued further. There always reason for closing the thread. The discussion can be initiated in a new thread.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/