Tree from high altitude for id 040211MK2

[Muthu Karthick]

Dear all,

Please help to id the tree found planted at a private garden in Ooty, Nilgiris.

Date/Time-	24-01-2011 / 11:00 AM
Location- Place, Altitude, GP	ca.2200asl; Ooty, TN
Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type-	garden
Plant Habit-	tree
Height/Length-	4 m
Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size-	c. 1 feet; spiny margin
Inflorescence Type/ Size-	Raceme; 15-20 cm long
Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts-	yellow; 0.6cm across
Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds-	globose; 1cm across
Other Information like Fragrance, Pollinator, Uses etc.-

--
Muthu Karthick, N
Care Earth Trust

#15, second main road,

Thillai ganga nagar,
Chennai - 600 061

Mob: 09626833911
www.careearthtrust.org

[Pankaj Kumar]

This looks like Berberis or some other Berberidaceae to me.

Pankaj

--
***********************************************
"TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!"


Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae)
Research Associate
Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project
Department of Habitat Ecology
Wildlife Institute of India
Post Box # 18
Dehradun - 248001, India

[manudev madhavan]

Am not very sure..!!

This could be some species of Mahonia

May be Mahonia napaulensis DC. (Mahonia leschenaultii (Wall. ex Wight & Arn.) Takeda ex Dunn)

--

Manudev K Madhavan

Systematic & Floristic Lab,

Department of Botany, 
Centre for Postgraduate Studies & Research 
St. Joseph's College, Devagiri
Kozhikode- 673 008
Mob: 9496470738

[Muthu Karthick]

Dear Manudevji,

Mahonia leschenaultii is a big-shrub and not a tree. 

Description shows that M.leschenaultii have dark blue fruits and even-pinnate leaves; a contradictory to the posted tree habit plant. Please verify again.

Reference: Excursion Flora of TN by K M Matthew

[Pankaj Kumar]

As far as I know, the fruit color turns blue or dark when it ripens. This is peculiar to Berberidaceae I assume. These fruits may not be ripe enough. But cant be sure.

Pankaj

[Gurcharan Singh]

Muthu ji

All species of Mahonia are technically shrubs with more than one stems from ground level, and no main trunk. However, it is  not uncommon to see smaller stems cut away or die to give the plant appearance of a tree (I have seen this in several gardens). FBI reports than B. nepalensis (now correctly napaulensis) to reach a height of up to 20 ft.

      I don't think there  is any species of Mahonia (some again merge it with Berberis) with even pinnate leaves. All are to my knowledge odd-pinnate with terminal leaflet.

     The toss is between M. napaulensis  and M. bealei. Even FBI mentions that probably they are not different. It is, however, understood that recent treatments recognise them independent. I would go with M. bealei, because M. napaulensis is a plant of Himalyan region. It would be useful, if any friend is able to dish out the differences between the two species.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[manudev madhavan]

Gurucharan ji, 

Thanks for the information..!!

However, M. bealei is a synonym of Berberis bealei according to the recent cheklists, which have dark blue berries..

Am not much sure whether the fruits seen in the pictures will turn dark blue..]

But it doesn't appears to be so.. Gamble has reported M.leschenaultii from Kodaikkanal, which is conspecific to Mahonia napaulensis DC according to the recent plant checklist published by Missouri Botanical garden. I haven't seen much plants to make a generalization on the habit feature of the plant, whether it is a tree  or a shrub..?

I think muthuji can dig out the differences between these species, who has a close access to one of the plants.

I am attaching some links below

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=233500224

http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/467817#page/70/mode/1up

regards...

[Gurcharan Singh]

Manudev ji

If M. bealei is a synonym of B. bealei, then all other species are also. Please See GRIN or other recent databases.

  We should use KEW Checklist with lot of caution. Perhaps the list has  been published in hurry. There are so many contradictions. So many species are unresolved. 

   What we need for final confirmation is to find differences between Mahonia (or Berberis) bealei and M. (B.) napaulensis (syn. M (B) leschenaultii).

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[manudev madhavan]

Gurucharan ji,

In the checklist both genus Mahonia & Berberis do exist.

Here it is another link...

http://www.biotik.org/india/species/m/maholesc/maholesc_en.html

please check...

[Gurcharan Singh]

Manudev ji

If the list is reliable then perhaps we will have to find out the differences between Mahonia and Berberis. The traditional difference is simple leavesin Berberis, pinnate in Mahonia.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[formp...@yahoo.com]

Beutiful photos

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

---

From: Muthu Karthick <nmk...@gmail.com>

Sender: indian...@googlegroups.com

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 11:29:22 +0530

To: indiantreepix<indian...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: [efloraofindia:62076] Tree from high altitude for id 040211MK2

[Pankaj Kumar]

AHRENDT, L.W.A. 1961. Berberis and Mahonia: A taxonomic revision.
Journal of the Linnean Society of London, Botany Volume 57, Issue 369,
pages 1–410.
If some one can get this, it may help.
Secondly, I cant find any Berberis list on Kew website. I would be
grateful if anyone can send the link to me.
Please find one article in this context attached. Frankly, I haven't
seen whats there inside.
Regards
Pankaj

--

[Gurcharan Singh]

Yes Pankaj ji

This paper should help, because there seems to be some thing more than simple vs compound leaves in the distinction. As far as the list is  concerned, follow the following link:

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/tro-6303253

Type Berberis in the search window and you will get a list of 1339 names under Berberis some accepted names (Bold italics) and some  synonyms or unresolved names (italics). Unfortunately the list of unresolved names is much larger in almost every genus.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Pankaj Kumar]

Thanks for the link. Actually I was looking in the Kew's Checklist.
Yes, the list is there on The Plant List, but right now it cant be
trusted as it is under review and confidence level is just 66%!!
Regards
Pankaj

[JM Garg]

I think it should be Mahonia acanthifolia G. Don as per efi thread