Gurdy repair materials: Urgent help needed in Vancouver BC

[Wolodymyr Smishkewych]

Dear all,

Sorry that I've been mostly lurking the list these days--my new job in Ireland has been keeping me quite busy!
I'm writing to ask for a small bit of help: Just yesterday when I was taking out my organistrum that I use with ensemble Sequentia, to my horror I discovered that the lid had come clean off--by cracking cleanly across the weak areas of the key slots on the back of the keybox. Since the keybox is open in the direction of the wheel, and the glue line on the tuning pins end failed, there is nothing keeping the back of the keybox from coming off, so I now have a lid and a chunk of keybox held together by hinges, and the rest of the organistrum itself, keys in just the front slots of the keybox. Mirculously, whatever prompted the break of the keybox didn't cause any damage to the rest of the instrument, so it plays the strings fine.

I am enroute to Vancouver from Ireland (writing this as I travel to the airport) and arrive tonight, Wednesday. This weekend I have a concert with Sequentia, and teach a two-week workshop (need the HG for the concert, not essential for the course, but would be nice). I'm confident I can repair it before then, and so I brought a first-aid kit of tools and some small 'harigane' clamps with me. However, I couldn't get any wood for the repair, and so I am wondering if there are any luthier friends in the area, on the list or folks some of you may know, that might be able to help me source some wood I'll need for the repair (not yet sure if I will just make cleats for the back inside of the keybox wall, or make a thin but strong reinforcing wall to glue to the inside of the keybox once the pieces have been mated. Any thoughts on this would also be appreciated, as I haven't done this kind of repair before.

So, if any of you are, or know, luthiers (any kind!--or even good woodworkers) who might be able to help me with this some time Thursday, that would be great. THanks so much!

Vlad

[Matthew Szostak]

Hi Vlad-

Obviously I can't do much to help from Maine, but I'll continue the
discussion - if nothing else, it'll keep people's attention!

What kind of wood do you want, and in what dimensions?

~ Matt

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[Tania]

Hi Vlad.
All of our BC contacts are on Vancouver Island, not the mainland, but
I'm forwarding your query there in hopes someone will know someone...
Meanwhile, here's one highly recommended on the guitarscanada.com
forum: Nicole Alosinac Luthiery, (by appointment only), 604-724-0726,
nalo...@hotmail.com. I looked at her webpage and she claims
"extensive experience in classical, acoustic and electric guitar and
bass repair, and repair of all other string instruments including
banjo, mandolin, ukulele, and violin repair."

The big one in Vancouver would be Larrivee Guitars, but they're likely
to be too big to get involved in anything other than their own
product. OTOH, they might just be sufficiently intrigued, and have a
vast assortment of pieces of wood you could sort through.
604-253-7111. Address is 780 Cordova St E, Vancouver, BC V6A 1M3, but
I don't know whether that would be factory or offices.

I'll let you know if I get any more leads from my BC friends.

Good travels to you. Sounds like you'll be flying back to Ireland
about the same time I leave for Seattle. We don't seem destined to
meet any time soon!

~Tania

[Melvin Dorries]

Greetings Vlad,

 

Bummer!

 

I am thinking of one of Murphy's lesser known laws: "Before you can do what you want to do you must do somthing else first".

 

We can ship immediately whatever you need and do it next day express if you like.

Will keep an eye on this thread so we are available, or contact us M...@Hurdygurdycrafters.com.

 

In a pinch you can use a heavy cotton fabric for reinforcement of a glued area. In your case it sounds like you would need to do many small pieces that would be carefully saturated with adhesive and placed so as to not interfere with keys but still span the crack gap to reinforce the area. I would recommend that you use an epoxy in this case so that the wood does not expand with the water that is in a typical alaphatic resen glue such as titebond. Yes, an epoxy would be my 1st choice and one that sets relatively fast 6-30min. You will need to mix several batches because when it begins to fire (get thick) it progressively looses its ability to adhere.   Of course use great care to not get it on the keys. Toothpicks work well for mixing and applying this.

 

The other adhesive to consider with a fabric reinforcement is gel super glue or a medium consistency super glue. Use lots of ventilation with this as asthmatics often react to its fumes. If you select to use a gel place the adhesive on the cleaned wood area and apply the gel then push your trimmed reinforcement patch into it with a tooth pick watching that squeezout does not get on something that you do not want stuck.  

 

Most hardwares, craft stores, and  home improvement stores have thes.

 

Pleased to help in any way we can

Mel

From: Matthew Szostak <gu...@midcoast.com>
To: hurdy...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: [HG-new] Gurdy repair materials: Urgent help needed in Vancouver BC

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[Hobgo...@aol.com]

Dear Vlad--

I am sure that my understanding of the problem is faulty, but since you mentioned a "clean" break, I would suggest that the emergency situation would be best repaired by an application of glue Hot Stuff. I know that it is heresy to suggest anything less than rebuilding the thing with fresh wood and hide glue, but due to my interactions with woodcarvers and a similar emergency, I was led to this glue. although it is not a hide glue, it does have a solvent if you ever want to dissassemble the instrument. It involves merely squeezing the water-like glue in the problem area, after which you have about 10 seconds (I've been able to use a window as large as 20) to clamp it into place. I have closed checks in very hard woods by putting the glue into the crack, then clamping the thing an a vise, then spraying the accelerant. Works like a charm, and never saw the fault again.  

There is a thicker version if the break is not clean or perfect, but I have never used it. Then you can wait a few hours for a full cure, or spray on the handy-dandy accelerant, which cures it instantly. This glue has done emergency repairs to fingers on carved wooden puppets, and other things that would otherwise be considered too tiny or too much under stress to repair in any other way. My memory seems to also hint that I've repaired an instrument that way, which accounts for my sudden emergency to find a quick fix, but the details elude me. You might or might not want to lightly sand the area with 200 grit sandpaper, but I have never done so, and if the item ever broke again, it was not along the original break line. I would like to stress that this is not Super Glue, which gives you like a year's service, then gives up.

I just had to repair a chipped eyelid on a puppet , which was very, very thin, and found that I was carving on it and then was enchanted to find that when I applied finish, the glue did not discolor at all, even though there was some on the surface.

This will give you a view of the product:

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/hot/hoths-4.htm

It is available all over the US, and probably obtainable in the UK. Suggest you get the thinner, in case you glue yourself to the product, but I have never needed it, because by the time I had clamped the item, I was spraying the accelerant from 4 inches away.

Alice

 

In a message dated 7/27/2011 12:38:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, wolodymyrs...@googlemail.com writes:

Dear all,

Sorry that I've been mostly lurking the list these days--my new job in Ireland has been keeping me quite busy!
I'm writing to ask for a small bit of help: Just yesterday when I was taking out my organistrum that I use with ensemble Sequentia, to my horror I discovered that the lid had come clean off--by cracking cleanly across the weak areas of the key slots on the back of the keybox. Since the keybox is open in the direction of the wheel, and the glue line on the tuning pins end failed, there is nothing keeping the back of the keybox from coming off, so I now have a lid and a chunk of keybox held together by hinges, and the rest of the organistrum itself, keys in just the front slots of the keybox. Mirculously, whatever prompted the break of the keybox didn't cause any damage to the rest of the instrument, so it plays the strings fine.

I am enroute to Vancouver from Ireland (writing this as I travel to the airport) and arrive tonight, Wednesday. This weekend I have a concert with Sequentia, and teach a two-week workshop (need the HG for the concert, not essential for the course, but would be nice). I'm confident I can repair it before then, and so I brought a first-aid kit of tools and some small 'harigane' clamps with me. However, I couldn't get any wood for the repair, and so I am wondering if there are any luthier friends in the area, on the list or folks some of you may know, that might be able to help me source some wood I'll need for the repair (not yet sure if I will just make cleats for the back inside of the keybox wall, or make a thin but strong reinforcing wall to glue to the inside of the keybox once the pieces have been mated. Any thoughts on this would also be appreciated, as I haven't done this kind of repair before.

So, if any of you are, or know, luthiers (any kind!--or even good woodworkers) who might be able to help me with this some time Thursday, that would be great. THanks so much!

Vlad

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[Bruno Fournier]

Try to find Ray Nurse, he's the best luthier in town and I believe he also teaches lute at UBC.

 

There's alos Clive Titmuss in Kelowna BC:

 

http://www.clivetitmuss.com/instruments_photos.asp

 

both build lutes and guitars, but I'm sure they can help you out.

 

Bruno

Montreal, Quebec

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Bruno Cognyl-Fournier

 

www.estavel.org

 

[Arle Lommel]

Vlad,

If you have not already made the repair, any chance you can post a photo of the damage online? From your description I'm not entirely certain that I understand the nature of the damage to the peg end (I get where the failure on the backside of the keybox occurred). Others seem to get it, and it's possible the repair is already done following, for instance, Mel's instructions, but this is a case where a picture may be worth a thousand words.

-Arle

[George Leverett-Altarwind Hurdy Gurdies]

Hi Vlad:
So sorry to hear about the trouble, I know that's got to be very
disheartening. So it sounds like you're describing break running along
the grain line on the keybox. Assuming this is the case: as bad as it
looks it actually is a pretty easy repair. I recently did a similiar
repair which was wrapped up in a day. If you find your way to Oregon, you
are welcome to swing by the woodshop and we can help you out, but I realize
that we are not terribly close to Vancouver. So, you if you feel bold
enough to take on the job, here's how to fix it:

The basic steps would be:
-Remove the keys (be sure to keep track of which key goes where in case they
aren't labeled, also pay attention to which tangent goes where if you have
wooden tangents).

-Gently remove the keybox lid (you may want to do this step first, depending
on the nature of the the damage)

-Work some yellow glue (Titebond) into the damaged /cracked area. If it is
completely detached, this might make this step a little easier.

-Clamp the freshly glued keychest side back into position.You will also
likely need an extra set of hands for this. What works for me is to use two
of those squeeze clamp with the handles & triggers for quick tighten &
release (c-clamps would be a real hassle for this job). Gently place the
broken piece back into position, then take a piece of wood (as long as your
hurdy gurdy is wide, width of the plank is very flexible) and place it
across the top of the keychest, so that it is oriented along the width of
the instrument. Take the clamps and secure this plank to the instrument
(the clamps will be on each end of the plank, so that part of the clamp will
attach to the top of the plank & the back of the instrument). Since the
plank lays across the top of the keychest it will naturally push it downward
on the keybox until the glue dries. This is probably a little confusion, so
I'm attaching a picture to help.

-Once you get it securely clamped, take a damp rag/paper towel and clean up
the excess & squeezeout glue. The excess yellow glue should wipe up fairly
easily. You will undoubtedly have to clean the glue out of the keyholes
too. This part will likely take the longest of any step so far but be
thorough as hardened glue in the keyslots will impair the key function.
Epoxy has been discussed in this thread, but I would not recommend it for
this part for the reason that it will be much more difficult to clean up.

-After a few hours, remove the whole clamp setup. Next, reinforce the
repair: get some metal rod (brazing rod from your local hardware store is
readily available) or some very small dowel. Drill holes that are the size
of your metal rod/dowel down through the keychest side. Be careful here as
you don't want the drill bit to 'break out' through the keychest side.
Your going to run those rods down through the keychest side so they
reinforce the glued area. (let's call this splints). One splint on each
end, plus one or two interspersed through the middle of the keychest should
do. Before inserting them, sand the rod a little (if using metal. scuffing
it with sandpaper will allow for better glue adhesion) then squirt some
epoxy down the hole (or yellow glue if using wood). Finally, slide the
splint down through the the keychest side. Carefully cut off any overhang
and let it dry (depends on what kind of epoxy as to curing time).

-Reassemble keys & like & you're good to go.

If this sounds beyond your comfort zone, you can have a woodworker friend
help you out.

Good luck!
George

-yellow glue (titebond is ideal)
-some metal rod, such as brazing rod

Dear all,

Vlad

--

[Wolodymyr Smishkewych]

Thank so much Bruno!

Best,

Vlad

[Wolodymyr Smishkewych]

No problem--when I get to Vancouver tonight I'll post some pics.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions so far! Still sorting my options and will prob know more tonight/tomorrow.
Firstly I'm hoping Ben Bagby doesn't have a heart attack when he sees the thing! It still drones, which is a saving graces, butI kinda needs those keys, heh heh...

Cheers, more soon.

Vlad

[Kazimierz Verkmastare]

Vlad

 

I will chime in here and suggest one of the cyanoacrylate super glues made for the model airplane hobbyists.  Hot stuff is only one of them, but most decent hobby shops will have their own selection of these glues.  Be sure to ask for the thin glues for wood.  And get a small bottle of the accelerator.

 

Here's my routine for fixing wood failures of this sort.  I use a small cheap artist brush to put some accelerator on just a few spots, making sure to get a dot on both pieces you will be gluing.  I use these spots as clamps, because the accelerated glue holds strong but not as strong as the unaccelerated glue.

 

So match the pieces up, and using one of the little teflon micro-tips you get with the glue (ask for them if they are not in the package), put a small dot on the joint at each spot you previously put accelerator.  This will hold the piece in place without clamps.  Now using the same micro-tip, carefully apply a small bead of glue right along the crack, best from the inside, and giving plenty of room for the keys.  This thin glue will 'wick' into the crack and travel along the joint very well.

 

Although this glue is supposed to be almost instant, I allow it to set for at least 15 minutes before I put any real stress on it.  The glue doesn't take time to set - it cures in an instant once it starts, but sometimes it takes some time before it decides to activate and cure.

 

When you use the accelerant, you will see a little puff of 'smoke' when the glue kicks off, and it gets hot.  You often will see the same puff when you are gluing very dry wood, but without accelerator it can take several seconds or longer to start to cure.  You will smell a very unique scent - it is a type of cyanide vapor and so is not particularly good for you, but it is not extremely dangerous to most folks (some asthmatics have had some pretty strong reactions to the vapor released on curing).

 

To get a bit of experience, buy a small bag of craft sticks at your hobby shop and practice gluing them together edge-to-edge and watching how the glue works - a half dozen pairs of sticks and you will become an expert.

 

Best of luck, and hope all works well.

 

Please let Ben know that Chris Nogy and his family (especially the girls) send greetings and wonder if he is coming to Arkansas anytime soon.

 

Chris