quick question about disability category

[Graham Pearce]

Hi all,

Just double-checking: am I correct that Michael Anderson, the swimmer who
won a silver medal in Beijing, should be classified under the Les Autres
disability category? I haven't added him to any of the categories yet
because I'm not sure what to do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Anderson_(swimmer)

Regards, Graham

[Tony Naar]

Graham,

I have just had a long discussion about this with Gen McMahon, who is the APC's Classification Manager and guru on all things to do with classification.

She tells me that the APC and the IPC are rapidly moving away from the traditional 6 "categories" of classification (SCI/wheelchair, amputee, cerebral palsy, les autres, vision impaired, intellectual disability). Instead, there are now a range of "impairment types". A person who has a primary impairment that belongs to one of those types can be eligible to participate in Paralympic sport. Not all sports provide opportunities for people with every impairment type, so the next step is to determine if the impairment type of that athlete matches a sport. The final step is to have the athlete classified into a class within the sport.

These changes are largely based on the ICF system - International Classification of Functioning, Disability and Health - used by the World Health Organisation - see http://www.who.int/classifications/icf/en/.

The IPC website now lists 10 eligible impairment types on its website - see http://www.paralympic.org/Classification/Introduction.

In its own definitions, the APC currently refers to 3 overall impairment groups - physical impairment, vision impairment and intellectual impairment. The physical impairment group has 7 "sub-categories". See http://www.paralympic.org.au/classification.

However, in terms of classification for Wikipedia in a way that will make sense the average person, what you are most interested in, I think, is the specific type of disability, so that - for example - a person who has that disability can find out about the achievements of others with the same disability.

Overall, that may require some adjustment in the way the athletes are categorised. In the longer term - that is, after the Games - the APC can dedicate resources to assisting to set this up. In the shorter term this may be difficult.

The Paralympic classification articles in Wikipedia are quite woefully inadequate. That raises issues as to what sort of information people will find when they access those pages during the Games. Really, this should be an area of interest for the IPC, but practically, I am not too sure that they have the resources or the expertise to address them.

In addition, they and the organisers probably feel that most people will get their classification information from the IPC or LOCOG websites or, in Australia, from the APC website. I notice that the Wikipedia "disability sport classification" page was only visited 288 times in the past 30 days, but I am not sure if the figures will be so low during the Games!

If possible, I would like to discuss this whole area with you at the workshop.

Regards,

TN

Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services
Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596  Sydney Markets  NSW  2129
T +61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au | W www.paralympic.org.au

We help Australians with disabilities participate in sport and compete at the Paralympic Games
through partnerships with governments, business, sporting bodies and the community.

The information contained in this email message may be confidential or copyright information of the Australian Paralympic Committee Ltd (ABN 41 810 234 213; ACN 061 547 957). If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify me by reply.

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

[Graham Pearce]

Hi Tony,

This is fascinating! But you are right, the changes that are afoot pose
some interesting classification problems for Wikipedia.

User:Dodger67 from South Africa was working on a revamped article about
disability sport classification (using the six-category system):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dodger67/Sandbox/Paralympic_classification

And the discussion about this topic at the Paralympics WikiProject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Olympics/Paralympics#
Categorising_Paralympic_competitors_by_Paralympic_class



Yes, I'd be happy to discuss this at the workshop.



Regards, Graham

[John Vandenberg]

This sounds like a good topic to cover with everyone involved on the
Saturday afternoon.

--
John Vandenberg

[Tony Naar]

To me, the sandbox article is a very good attempt to build on Laura's initial article. While the "6 disability" groups information has been recently made redundant, it was historically correct and so forms part of the overall narrative. There are also some areas of the article that definitely require expert input as they are not quite right. For example, even though many sports have moved to a functional system of classification, not all have - most notably athletics. This input should ideally be from the IPC.

In addition, the new "direction" in describing Paralympic classification needs to be incorporated.

I looked at the discussion at the Paralympics Wikiproject - my fault that I have not kept an eye on this - and I agree with the idea that there should be separate articles on classification at least by sport and possibly by every class for each sport. During the London Games millions of people will be wanting to find out more about Paralympic sport. I think that there is a feeling within the Paralympic movement that this information will be provided by the official websites - LOCOG, IPC, APC, etc. However, I am aware that for many people, Wikipedia is a first source of information and those people will expect that the information in Wikipedia is correct and up-to-date.

The "Aussie-centric" nature of the information currently available may be a reflection that Australia has been, and continues to be, at the forefront of Paralympic nations in developing and communicating Paralympic sport. We do like to think of ourselves as the leaders!

Graham - if Roger is not on the HoPAu mailing list, could you please ensure he gets this email? (The ways of the wiki are still somewhat hidden to me, and I appreciate your guidance!)

Seems like a good topic for discussion next weekend, even if it is a little tangential to the purpose of our meeting.

[Graham Pearce]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your comments. I've sent Roger a message on his user talk page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dodger67#Heads_up_re:_your_work_on_Paralympic_classification

[Graham Pearce]

Roger's responded to the message and joined this list. But as he said on his
talk page (in the link in the message below), he's busy with university
exams at the moment.

[Roger Conroy]

Hi everyone

Thanks to Graham for letting me know about this list.
I'm "Dodger67" on Wikipedia and the author of most of the content of the
draft on the classification system -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dodger67/Sandbox/Paralympic_classification

I'd like to invite interested people to please feel free to contribute or
make suggestions for the improvement and expansion of the draft text.
If you don't want to edit the draft directly (editing Wikipedia can be
intimidating for beginners) please post your input on the Discussion page
t -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dodger67/Sandbox/Paralympic_classification

As Graham has mentioned I am currently busy with exams. I'll be able to give
this project more attention after my last paper for the semester on 5 June.

Cheers!
Roger

[greg....@bigpond.com]

I've just done a major update of Chris Nunn's profile -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Nunn

He has played a significant role in the ' professionalisation' of Paralympic
coaching. National Library's Oral History great source of information.


I'm interested in creating a category - Australian Paralympic coaches


Cheers

Greg

[Graham Pearce]

Hi Greg,

Awesome! I've just copyedited it.

I've fixed a problem with the "It's an Honour" link. The site uses the same
URL for every search results page, no matter what you search for, so you
have to link to the individual awards. I learnt this the hard way as well
...

I think "Category:Australian Paralympic coaches" is too specific when we
don't even have "Category:Paralympic coaches" yet. So I've just created the
latter category by copying "Category:Olympic coaches" and substituting
"Paralympic" for "Olympic":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Paralympic_coaches

When I get back in a couple of hours, I'll try to find more pages to add to
the new category.

Regards, Graham

----- Original Message -----

[Roger Conroy]

I've just completed the subcategories - "Paralympic coaches by country" >
"Paralympic coaches of Australia"

I also added "Paralympic coaches by year" > "Coaches at the 1988 Paralympic
Games"

The article on Chris Nunn doesn't state clearly which PG he was involved in,
please clarify so that subcats for the other years can also be added.

We should really have "Paralympic coaches by sport" too.

Cheers!

Roger


-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Pearce

Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:37 AM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com

[Roger Conroy]

Please take a look at the subcategories I have just created under
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Paralympic_coaches and tweak where
necessary.
(The category descriptions could possibly be more succinct.)

BTW I added a non-Aussie to help illustrate how the categories are supposed
to subdivide.

Cheers!

Roger

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Pearce

Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:37 AM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com

[greg....@bigpond.com]

Hi Roger and Graeme

Thanks for the feedback and help.

Comment re Chris Nunn-

Wikipedia article states that - He has attended four successive Paralympic
Games 1988-2000 as an athletics coach and was Head Athletics Coach at the
1996 and 2000 Games.

Other coaches with current Wikipedia entries. These coaches have entries as
they were Paralympic medallists -

Brad Dubberley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Dubberley - 2008 and
current head coach wheelchair rugby
Iryna Dvoskina - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irina_Dvoskina - -2004 and
2008 (Australia) and 2000 Ukraine) athletics coach
John Eden - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Eden_(athlete) - 2004 and
2008 athletics
Louise Sauvage - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Sauvage - 2008
athletics
Gerry Hewson - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Hewson - 2004, 2008 -
Women's Basketball


Some recent coaches to consider are - Andrew Dawes, Brett Jones, Scott
Goodman (Athletics), Brendan Keogh (Swimming_, Greg Crump (Tennis) etc.


Cheers

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: ho...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of

[Graham Pearce]

Just as a starter, while I have time today, I've dealt with everybody listed
in the coaches section at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Australian_Paralympians

I also renamed the by-year categories from "Coaches at the XXXX Paralympic
Games" to "Category:Coaches at the XXXX Summer/Winter Paralympics.

I've just added coaching categories according to their Wikipedia articles
(Iryna Dvoskina's 2000 coaching position isn't listed there at the moment.

[Tony Naar]

This is all great stuff!

Another one to add to your list - Jenni Banks. She is the Australian handcycling coach in 2012 but has in the past coached Louise Sauvage and also coached British wheelchair athlete Tanni Grey-Thompson by correspondence for many years and was inducted into the British coaching hall of fame (or similar) several years ago for that role. She was also the high performance manager at the APC from the mid-90s to 2003. She was on the team staff at the 92, 96, 00, 02 (winter) Paralympics. Just a thought!

Regards,

TN

Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services
Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596  Sydney Markets  NSW  2129
T +61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au | W www.paralympic.org.au

We help Australians with disabilities participate in sport and compete at the Paralympic Games
through partnerships with governments, business, sporting bodies and the community.

The information contained in this email message may be confidential or copyright information of the Australian Paralympic Committee Ltd (ABN 41 810 234 213; ACN 061 547 957). If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify me by reply.

-----Original Message-----
From: ho...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of greg....@bigpond.com
Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2012 5:40 PM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com

[Elizabeth Edmondson]

Hi Graham

Tony Howson was my coach in 1964 and 1968. Not officially appointed though in the good old days.

Cheers Elizabeth

[Graham Pearce]

Thanks Elizabeth. I notice that your article mentions him already. Should he
have his own dedicated Wikipedia article?

[Elizabeth Edmondson]

I don't know much about him and where you can get more info about him. He passed away several years ago. His wife was a Physio and worked with Dr Bedbrook He had a house in the 1962 commonwealth games village with a pool in the back yard which I started training there -until I joined the main squad training at Beatty park

Cheers Elizabeth

[greg....@bigpond.com]

Hi All

Well I did start something with the Paralympic coaches, as a result I have
updated the following coaches are seeing some brief entries -

Brad Dubberley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Dubberley - major update
Iryna Dvoskina - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irina_Dvoskina - major update
Scott Goodman - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Goodman_(coach) - major
update
John Eden - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Eden_(athlete) - category
update
Louise Sauvage - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Sauvage - category
update
Gerry Hewson - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Hewson - category update

I hope the Blues beat the Maroons tonight in the State of Origin !

[greg....@bigpond.com]

Dear All

Vicki Epstein has supplied a great deal of information and we have be able
to create her husband's entry - a Australian Paralympic competitor and
coach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Epstein OAM

We were able to use an image that the APC had uploaded to Wikicommons.

Cheers

Greg

[Tony Naar]

Greg,

I like your very modest use of the word "we"! Another great article!

As a matter of interest, some of the articles that you and others are now creating under this project are about people who have not won Paralympic Games medals, which we had previously assumed was the requisite level of notability, after it was determined that an OAM was not sufficient for notability.

I know we have had the discussion that Olympians seem to have been adjudged to be "notable" because they are Olympians, so does this mean that the same now applies to Paralympians, or does Ray qualify under the notability requirement due to the sum of his "notable" achievements, rather than the level of any single achievement? Or do Ray's world records and world champs gold medals qualify for the notability requirement?

From the APC perspective, if Olympians are considered to be notable on the basis that they are Olympians, then I would hope that Paralympians would qualify on the same basis.

I think that this aspect of notability would be good to explore further for the benefit of this project.

Regards,

TN

Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services
Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596  Sydney Markets  NSW  2129
T +61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au | W www.paralympic.org.au

We help Australians with disabilities participate in sport and compete at the Paralympic Games
through partnerships with governments, business, sporting bodies and the community.

The information contained in this email message may be confidential or copyright information of the Australian Paralympic Committee Ltd (ABN 41 810 234 213; ACN 061 547 957). If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify me by reply.

[Ray and Vicki Epstein]

Hi Tony,
It would be good to get clarification on this - I was under the impression that Ray's inclusion was in the 'Paralympic coach' category, rather than as a Paralympic athlete.
Cheers,
Vicki

_______________________________

Ray and Vicki Epstein
89 Virginia Avenue
Hawthorne Qld 4171
Australia

Telephone: +61 7 3399 8945
Email: theep...@ozfolks.net

[Tony Naar]

Good point Vicki.

 

Can our Wikipedia experts help/advise us?

 

Regards,

 

TN

 

Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services

Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596  Sydney Markets  NSW  2129

T +61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au | W www.paralympic.org.au

 

We help Australians with disabilities participate in sport and compete at the Paralympic Games

through partnerships with governments, business, sporting bodies and the community.

The information contained in this email message may be confidential or copyright information of the Australian Paralympic Committee Ltd (ABN 41 810 234 213; ACN 061 547 957).  If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify me by reply.

 

From: ho...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray and Vicki Epstein

Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2012 1:35 PM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com

[Graham Pearce]

Hi All,

This sounds great to me!

I've been pretty much out of the loop for the last day or so because I've been having trouble setting up my new computer (especially getting a good email solution), so I haven't had a chance to check out Ray's article yet. Yes, Ray's inclusion is based on his work as a coach, rather than his Paralympic results. I've moderated my stance a bit; I used to believe that the project should only involve Wikipedia articles about Paralympic medals, which is the guideline at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOLYMPICS

But now I think that if a Paralympian has received significant coverage (like a detailed article devoted to them in a mainstream state newspaper), they can have a Wikipedia article about them. The significant coverage would probably talk about their other achievements (like being a coach, as in Ray's case, or being a notable Paralympic administrator, or perhaps their work in another field entirely).

Regards, Graham

[Tony Naar]

Thanks Graham!

 

I personally feel that there is an issue of equity here. The relevant clause that you referred to is:

 

Athletes from any sport are presumed notable if they have competed at the Summer or Winter Olympic games or have won a medal at the Paralympic Games; e.g. Ian Thorpe or Laurentia Tan

 

In my view, that is just completely inequitable. If Olympic athletes qualify just be being Olympic athletes, then so should Paralympic athletes!

 

I would be interested to know what others think and how we can go about changing this.

 

Good luck getting the computer humming – it’s hard enough for those of us who are sighted and just have to take it out of the box – adding your fancy additions must be a nightmare!

 

Regards,

 

TN

 

Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services

Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596  Sydney Markets  NSW  2129

T +61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au | W www.paralympic.org.au

 

We help Australians with disabilities participate in sport and compete at the Paralympic Games

through partnerships with governments, business, sporting bodies and the community.

The information contained in this email message may be confidential or copyright information of the Australian Paralympic Committee Ltd (ABN 41 810 234 213; ACN 061 547 957).  If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify me by reply.

 

From: ho...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Pearce

Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2012 4:02 PM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com

[greg....@bigpond.com]

Hi All

 

I agree with Graham. I think the original project was focussed on athletes but since working on the project I have the following comments. Note I changed the HOPAU subject to help people locate this discussion in the future.:

 

Athletes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOLYMPICS – “Athletes from any sport are presumed notable if they have competed at the Summer or Winter Olympic games or have won a medal at the Paralympic Games”; . I think the restriction on Paralympic medals could be softened in the following circumstances – athletes competed at multiple Games (ie more than three without winning a medal) or they have won an IPC World Championships medal. IPC world championships are now nearly on the same level as the Paralympics. Some athletes may win multiple IPC medals and be injured as not to compete in the Paralympics. Athletes competing in able bodied World Championships are allowed a Wikipedia entry. Hopefully there will be parity in the future.  The Wikipedia area - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(sports) highlights that some sports have a low level of qualification – that’s my impression – someone who has worked in sport for 30 years.. I have spent considerable time in adding IPC World Championships information as I believe it gives an athlete wider recognition.

 

Coaches

Coaches play a critical role in athletes success. Wikipedia has a category for  Olympic coaches of Australia. I think a coach can have an entry if they were a Head Coach, attended numerous Games as coach, personally coached numerous (ie more than three)  Paralympic medallists and have significant number of cited references.

I rely on  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_wizard/Biographical_notability “A person who made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field”

 

Administrators / Support Staff

 

These will have played a significant role in the Australian Paralympic movement/ Australian teams, held positions of importance for at least ten years , often be involved in other fields of endeavour, received recognition IPC/APC or Australian honours and have significant number of cited references.

 

I rely on  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_wizard/Biographical_notability “A person who made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field”.

 

 

These are my thoughts and the reasons I have added entries for Greg Hartung, Brendan Flynn (administrators), Chris Nunn, Scoot Goodman, Ray Epstein .

 

The Paralympic movement history will be rounded if all three types of people are recognised.

 

Cheers

 

Greg

 

From: ho...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Pearce

Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2012 4:02 PM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com

[Graham Pearce]

Hi Greg,

These guidelines sound sensible to me.

Relating to Paralympians, I found a brief talk page message about the guideline that Paralympians who win a medal are automatically notable:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(sports)/Archive_5#Paralympics

Apparently all Paralympians were automatically notable whether or not they won a medal, but the guideline was tightened because of the scarcity of media sources about the athletes. Unfortunately Wikipedia reflects the world as it is, not as it should be ...

Regards, Graham

[Roger Conroy]

Hi everyone

 

See my proposal at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(sports)#Discrimination_against_Paralympians

 

Cheers!

 

Roger

[Ray and Vicki Epstein]

Hi everyone,
I certainly agree with having the same Wikipedia notability 'standard' for Paralympians as applies to Olympians. There are plenty of Olympic sports/athletes who suffer from lack of mainstream media coverage - if Wikipedia deems they only need meet the standard of 'participation' in the Games rather than 'medalling', I don't see why Paralympians should have to meet a different standard based on likelihood of reliable sources.

Maybe the discussion needs to be around what constitutes reliable sources?

Cheers,
Vicki

_______________________________

Ray and Vicki Epstein
89 Virginia Avenue
Hawthorne Qld 4171
Australia

Telephone: +61 7 3399 8945
Email: theep...@ozfolks.net

[Keith.Lyons]

My contribution to your discussions.

http://keithlyons.me/2012/06/07/notable/

Best wishes

Keith
________________________________
From: ho...@googlegroups.com [ho...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Ray and Vicki Epstein [TheEp...@ozfolks.net]
Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 8:45 AM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: ::HOPAU:: Notability of Paralympic Movement People

Hi everyone,
I certainly agree with having the same Wikipedia notability 'standard' for Paralympians as applies to Olympians. There are plenty of Olympic sports/athletes who suffer from lack of mainstream media coverage - if Wikipedia deems they only need meet the standard of 'participation' in the Games rather than 'medalling', I don't see why Paralympians should have to meet a different standard based on likelihood of reliable sources.

Maybe the discussion needs to be around what constitutes reliable sources?

Cheers,
Vicki





_______________________________

Ray and Vicki Epstein
89 Virginia Avenue
Hawthorne Qld 4171
Australia

Telephone: +61 7 3399 8945

Email: theep...@ozfolks.net<mailto:theep...@ozfolks.net>

On 6/06/2012 11:58 PM, Roger Conroy wrote:
Hi everyone

See my proposal at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(sports)#Discrimination_against_Paralympians<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Notability_%28sports%29#Discrimination_against_Paralympians>

Cheers!

Roger

From: greg....@bigpond.com<mailto:greg....@bigpond.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 8:53 AM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com<mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: ::HOPAU:: Notability of Paralympic Movement People

Hi All

I agree with Graham. I think the original project was focussed on athletes but since working on the project I have the following comments. Note I changed the HOPAU subject to help people locate this discussion in the future.:

Athletes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOLYMPICS – “Athletes from any sport are presumed notable if they have competed at the Summer or Winter Olympic games or have won a medal at the Paralympic Games”; . I think the restriction on Paralympic medals could be softened in the following circumstances – athletes competed at multiple Games (ie more than three without winning a medal) or they have won an IPC World Championships medal. IPC world championships are now nearly on the same level as the Paralympics. Some athletes may win multiple IPC medals and be injured as not to compete in the Paralympics. Athletes competing in able bodied World Championships are allowed a Wikipedia entry. Hopefully there will be parity in the future. The Wikipedia area - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(sports)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28sports%29> highlights that some sports have a low level of qualification – that’s my impression – someone who has worked in sport for 30 years.. I have spent considerable time in adding IPC World Championships information as I believe it gives an athlete wider recognition.

Coaches
Coaches play a critical role in athletes success. Wikipedia has a category for Olympic coaches of Australia. I think a coach can have an entry if they were a Head Coach, attended numerous Games as coach, personally coached numerous (ie more than three) Paralympic medallists and have significant number of cited references.
I rely on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_wizard/Biographical_notability “A person who made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field”

Administrators / Support Staff

These will have played a significant role in the Australian Paralympic movement/ Australian teams, held positions of importance for at least ten years , often be involved in other fields of endeavour, received recognition IPC/APC or Australian honours and have significant number of cited references.

I rely on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_wizard/Biographical_notability “A person who made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field”.


These are my thoughts and the reasons I have added entries for Greg Hartung, Brendan Flynn (administrators), Chris Nunn, Scoot Goodman, Ray Epstein .

The Paralympic movement history will be rounded if all three types of people are recognised.

Cheers

Greg

From: ho...@googlegroups.com<mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com> [mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Pearce
Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2012 4:02 PM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com<mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: ::HOPAU:: Ray Epstein Entry

Hi All,

This sounds great to me!

I've been pretty much out of the loop for the last day or so because I've been having trouble setting up my new computer (especially getting a good email solution), so I haven't had a chance to check out Ray's article yet. Yes, Ray's inclusion is based on his work as a coach, rather than his Paralympic results. I've moderated my stance a bit; I used to believe that the project should only involve Wikipedia articles about Paralympic medals, which is the guideline at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOLYMPICS

But now I think that if a Paralympian has received significant coverage (like a detailed article devoted to them in a mainstream state newspaper), they can have a Wikipedia article about them. The significant coverage would probably talk about their other achievements (like being a coach, as in Ray's case, or being a notable Paralympic administrator, or perhaps their work in another field entirely).

Regards, Graham

On 6/06/2012 11:35 AM, Ray and Vicki Epstein wrote:
Hi Tony,
It would be good to get clarification on this - I was under the impression that Ray's inclusion was in the 'Paralympic coach' category, rather than as a Paralympic athlete.
Cheers,
Vicki




_______________________________



Ray and Vicki Epstein

89 Virginia Avenue

Hawthorne Qld 4171

Australia



Telephone: +61 7 3399 8945

Email: theep...@ozfolks.net<mailto:theep...@ozfolks.net>

On 6/06/2012 1:13 PM, Tony Naar wrote:

Greg,



I like your very modest use of the word "we"! Another great article!



As a matter of interest, some of the articles that you and others are now creating under this project are about people who have not won Paralympic Games medals, which we had previously assumed was the requisite level of notability, after it was determined that an OAM was not sufficient for notability.



I know we have had the discussion that Olympians seem to have been adjudged to be "notable" because they are Olympians, so does this mean that the same now applies to Paralympians, or does Ray qualify under the notability requirement due to the sum of his "notable" achievements, rather than the level of any single achievement? Or do Ray's world records and world champs gold medals qualify for the notability requirement?



>From the APC perspective, if Olympians are considered to be notable on the basis that they are Olympians, then I would hope that Paralympians would qualify on the same basis.



I think that this aspect of notability would be good to explore further for the benefit of this project.



Regards,



TN



Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services

Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596 Sydney Markets NSW 2129

T +61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au<mailto:tony...@paralympic.org.au> | W www.paralympic.org.au<http://www.paralympic.org.au>

We help Australians with disabilities participate in sport and compete at the Paralympic Games

through partnerships with governments, business, sporting bodies and the community.



The information contained in this email message may be confidential or copyright information of the Australian Paralympic Committee Ltd (ABN 41 810 234 213; ACN 061 547 957). If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify me by reply.





-----Original Message-----

From: ho...@googlegroups.com<mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com> [mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of greg....@bigpond.com<mailto:greg....@bigpond.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 6:08 PM

To: ho...@googlegroups.com<mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com>

[Tony Naar]

Good post, but I hope those fence palings don't hurt your bum Keith! This is one for jumping in and taking a side. I plan to wade in and support Roger.

Regards,

TN

Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services
Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596  Sydney Markets  NSW  2129

T +61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au | W www.paralympic.org.au

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOLYMPICS - "Athletes from any sport are presumed notable if they have competed at the Summer or Winter Olympic games or have won a medal at the Paralympic Games"; . I think the restriction on Paralympic medals could be softened in the following circumstances - athletes competed at multiple Games (ie more than three without winning a medal) or they have won an IPC World Championships medal. IPC world championships are now nearly on the same level as the Paralympics. Some athletes may win multiple IPC medals and be injured as not to compete in the Paralympics. Athletes competing in able bodied World Championships are allowed a Wikipedia entry. Hopefully there will be parity in the future. The Wikipedia area - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(sports)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28sports%29> highlights that some sports have a low level of qualification - that's my impression - someone who has worked in sport for 30 years.. I have spent considerable time in adding IPC World Championships information as I believe it gives an athlete wider recognition.

[Keith.Lyons]

Oops!

I did not to presume to speak for APC, Tony. I wanted to flag the debate and return to it as a committed partner.

How about you comment on the post and my reply can be the start of my move from the fence?

Best wishes

Keith
________________________________________
From: ho...@googlegroups.com [ho...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Tony Naar [Tony...@paralympic.org.au]
Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 12:54 PM

[Graham Pearce]

I respectfully think the bar is set about right, as I've noted on the
talk page, using Roy Fowler as an example. Note that the guideline
doesn't *prohibit* anybody from writing articles about Paralympians who
didn't win medals; it just says "a Paralympian is automatically
considered notable if they've won a medal".

Regards, Graham

[Tony Naar]

Graham,

I understand where you are coming from, but I think that, in that case, the bar should be at the same height for Olympians. If the bar is lower for Olympians - as it is now - then that is inequitable.

[greg....@bigpond.com]

Dear All

I have just spent a fair bit of time in updating and reviewing the following
pages related to Australia at the Winter Paralympics -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_1980_Winter_Paralympics -
added results
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_1984_Winter_Paralympics -
added results
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_1988_Winter_Paralympics -
added results
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_1992_Winter_Paralympics -
added results & medallists
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_1994_Winter_Paralympics -
added results & medallists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_1998_Winter_Paralympics -
added results, admin & medallists
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_2002_Winter_Paralympics -
added results & medallists
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_2006_Winter_Paralympics -
added results, admin, medallists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_2010_Winter_Paralympics -
added medallists, admin

- note - results copied from IPC Database

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_Winter_Paralympics - updated
page, added medal summary and list of all medallists, athlete support

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_2014_Winter_Paralympics - page
created for 2014 - Team prep information added


Help required for locating the following information -
1980 - team officials and flag bearers
1984 - team officials and flag bearers
1988 - team officials and flag bearers
1992 - team officials and flag bearers
1994 - flag bearers
1998 - team officials and flag bearers
2002 - flag bearer (closing)
2006 - flag bearer (closing)
2010 - flag bearer (closing)

I would appreciate if someone can review the pages for errors (typo's) or
have additional useful information.

Sochi Paralympics are just over a year away - March 7 to March 16, 2014


Cheers

Greg

[Keith.Lyons]

What a remarkable undertaking, Greg.

Thank you for sharing this.

Best wishes

Keith
________________________________________
From: ho...@googlegroups.com [ho...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of greg....@bigpond.com [greg....@bigpond.com]
Sent: Monday, 21 January 2013 7:19 PM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com
Subject: ::HOPAU:: Australia at the Winter Paralympics

[Tony Naar]

Thanks Greg - your usual excellent work!

I have passed your email on to people who may be able to answer your questions and asked them to contact you direct. I will also see what photos we may have (courtesy of Ron Finneran) from those early Games. I think there are a few.

Regards,

TN

Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services

Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596  Sydney Markets  NSW  2129
T +61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au | W www.paralympic.org.au

We help Australians with disabilities participate in sport and compete at the Paralympic Games
through partnerships with governments, business, sporting bodies and the community.

The information contained in this email message may be confidential or copyright information of the Australian Paralympic Committee Ltd (ABN 41 810 234 213; ACN 061 547 957). If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify me by reply.


-----Original Message-----

From: ho...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of greg....@bigpond.com
Sent: Monday, 21 January 2013 7:20 PM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com

[Murray Phillips]

Hi Greg,

Thanks very much for your efforts here. These articles are a great start on a topic, certainly in the early years, where there is very little information.

As I come across any additional information that will help develop these pages I will get them scanned to help.

Cheers

Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: ho...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of greg....@bigpond.com
Sent: Monday, 21 January 2013 6:20 PM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com

[greg....@bigpond.com]

Dear All

Thanks for the feedback. I was able to discover flag bearers from 1998 to
2012 - just missing the early ones - maybe there was no formal ceremony in
those days.

Research led to more information about -


Ron Finneran - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Finneran (Father of
Australian Paralympic alpine skiing)

Anthony Bonaccurso - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Bonaccurso - dual
Winter and Summer Paralympian in alpine skiing and tennis

I have also added an Interesting facts Section to Australia at the
Paralympics - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_paralympics . I
have listed dual Winter and Summer Paralympians. We can also added items
such as youngest and oldest Australian Paralympians.

Finally, in the next or so I will create an entry for Disabled Winter Sport
Australia (Originally Australian Disabled Skiers Federation). Ron Finneran
was largely responsible for setting up this organisation.

Cheers

Greg




-----Original Message-----
From: Stainlay, Andrew [mailto:Andrew....@act.gov.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 23 January 2013 8:13 AM
To: greg....@bigpond.com; 'Tony Naar'
Subject: RE: ::HOPAU:: Australia at the Winter Paralympics

No dramas Greg

Will dig up some more info for you over coming days.

Cheers

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: greg....@bigpond.com [mailto:greg....@bigpond.com]

Sent: Wednesday, 23 January 2013 8:11 AM
To: 'Tony Naar'; Stainlay, Andrew
Subject: RE: ::HOPAU:: Australia at the Winter Paralympics

Thanks Andrew. I added the AIS program to the general Winter Paralympics
information -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_Winter_Paralympics
but I will add it to the 2002 Team entry.

Cheers

Greg


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Naar [mailto:Tony...@paralympic.org.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2013 10:26 AM
To: Stainlay, Andrew; greg....@bigpond.com
Cc: Ben Siu (ben...@bigpond.net.au)
Subject: RE: ::HOPAU:: Australia at the Winter Paralympics

Thanks Andrew!

And yes, I would be very interested in an y material you have!

Regards,

TN

Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services

Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596  Sydney Markets  NSW  2129 T
+61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au | W
www.paralympic.org.au

We help Australians with disabilities participate in sport and compete at
the Paralympic Games through partnerships with governments, business,
sporting bodies and the community.

The information contained in this email message may be confidential or
copyright information of the Australian Paralympic Committee Ltd (ABN 41 810
234 213; ACN 061 547 957). If you are not the intended recipient, any use,
interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised
and prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it
and notify me by reply.


-----Original Message-----

From: Stainlay, Andrew [mailto:Andrew....@act.gov.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2013 10:24 AM
To: Tony Naar; greg....@bigpond.com
Cc: Ben Siu (ben...@bigpond.net.au)
Subject: RE: ::HOPAU:: Australia at the Winter Paralympics

Thanks TN

And great work Greg!

Confirming Bart Bunting carried the flag at the 2002 Closing Ceremony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_Bunting

Some interesting stats (you may want to confirm officially) for the body of
the 2002 page -

I believe we were the 4th rank nation in Alpine along with 8th overall in
medal standings. (Amazing considering the European Alpine powerhouses!)

I think it is still Australia's greatest ever Winter Olympic or Paralympic
games result.

The 4 non-medallists shared 8 x top 10 placings between them.

Was an all male team with athletes competing in Alpine events only.

Probably have some history as to the beginning of AIS/APC Alpine Ski Program
at home if Greg or TN want that for elsewhere?

Cheers

Stains

___________________________
Andrew Stainlay | Sports Programs Manager
Direct: +61 2 6207 4396 | Mobile: +61 408 469 880 ACT Academy of Sport |
Economic Development Directorate | ACT Government Ground Floor Annex, 220
Northbourne Avenue, Braddon, ACT, 2612| PO Box 147, Civic Square, ACT 2608|
http://www.economicdevelopment.act.gov.au/sport_and_recreation/actas




-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Naar [mailto:Tony...@paralympic.org.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2013 8:04 AM
To: Kieran Courtney; Caroline Walker; Steve Graham; Ben Siu
(ben...@bigpond.net.au); Stainlay, Andrew; Tim Mannion; Nick Dean; Ron
Finneran (fin...@westnet.com.au)
Subject: FW: ::HOPAU:: Australia at the Winter Paralympics

All,

See below from Greg Blood, who has been working on "our" Wikipedia pages.
Greg has asked a number of questions and I am hoping that you might be able
to assist in answering those questions. If so, can you please contact Greg
direct at greg....@bigpond.com?

Thanks!

TN

Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services

Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596 Sydney Markets NSW 2129 T
+61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au | W
www.paralympic.org.au

We help Australians with disabilities participate in sport and compete at
the Paralympic Games through partnerships with governments, business,
sporting bodies and the community.

The information contained in this email message may be confidential or
copyright information of the Australian Paralympic Committee Ltd (ABN 41 810
234 213; ACN 061 547 957). If you are not the intended recipient, any use,
interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised
and prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it
and notify me by reply.

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If
you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all
copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You
should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any
other person.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------