Greg Hammond

[Graham Pearce]

Hi all,

I've just expanded the article about Greg Hammond, who was most notable as a
swimmer, but also competed in other sports, to note all his Paralympic
medals and appearances, among other things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Hammond

This Sydney Morning Herald article says that he won four gold medals in
1984, but I'm 99% sure that it was mistaken, because there was only one team
swimming event for his classification where Australia won a gold medal
(another two are already accounted for):
http://www.nswvolleyball.com.au/nsw-volleyball-articles/2000/10/13/done-the-swimming-now-for-the-volleyball/
http://www.paralympic.org/ipc_results/search.php?npc=AUS&gender=m&medal=medals&sport=20&games=1984PG

Also, per the Sydney Morning Herald article, he was planning to be part of a
three-person Sonar team for the 2000 Sydney Summer Paralympics. I'm curious
if the team was set up to be an interstate rival to Noel Robins and CO from
Western Australia, or was Noel part of the planned original crew? It seems
rather unusual for a country to field two teams in a Paralympic event.

Regards, Graham

[Graham Pearce]

BTW, I moved his article from the title "Gregory Hammond" to "Greg Hammond"
because he's almost universally known by the latter name. While expanding
the article I also created a new category for Australian Paralympic
volleyballers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Paralympic_volleyball_players_of_Australia

Regards, Graham

[greg....@bigpond.com]

Dear All

In my previous role as a sport librarian, I was sometimes asked to name
athletes that had a particular disability or the result of an accident. This
was often a time consuming process. I'm suggesting that the following new
Wikipedia categories could be created and attached where relevant to
Australian athletes -

Paralympic cerebral palsy athletes of Australia
Paralympic visual impairment athletes of Australia
Paralympic spinal cord injury athletes from Australia
Paralympic intellectual disability athletes from Australia
Paralympic amputee athletes from Australia
Patralympic les autres athletes from Australia
Paralymic athletes from Australia due to motor accidents
Paralympic athletes from Australia due to industrial accidents
Paralympic athletes from Australia due to recreational accidents
Paralympic athletes from Australia due to military accidents

The later four could be useful for the APC and other organisations . Let me
know what you think.

I have just spent two days at the APC Office in Sydney. They have developed
an impressive collection of IPC results.

Cheers

Greg

[. Courcelles]

The tree might be legit, but breaking these down by /nationality/
would almost surely be deleted at CFD as a trivial triple
intersection.

Courcelles

[Elizabeth Edmondson]

What about Paralympic athletes with polio?

Cheers Elizabeth

[greg....@bigpond.com]

Hi Elizabeth

Happy to include that category and any other suggestions ie congential birth
defects.

Cheers

Greg

[Graham Pearce]

Hi Greg,

Agreed with Courcelles here ... the categories as you propose them now are
far too specific.

I'd even suggest dropping the "Paralympic" from some of them (e.g. cerebral
palsy) because in general, if Wikipedia has an article about an athlete with
a disability, they've almost certainly been in at least *one* Paralympics.

A name like "Paralymic athletes from Australia due to motor accidents" makes
it sound like the IPC decided to let them into the Paralympics just because
they had a motor accident, which is most definitely not the case! But I
can't think of a better title that isn't clunky, like "Category:Athletes who
acquired their disability through a motor accident" would be. I'm also a
little hesitant about creating Wikipedia categories for non-Wikipedia
organisations.

We already have this category to start off with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Blind_athletes

Regards, Graham

[greg....@bigpond.com]

Hi Graham and Courcelles

What about the following five categories- these meet IPC six groupings

Blind athletes
Amputee athletes
Cerebral palsy athletes
Les autres athletes
Intellectual disability athletes
Spinal cord injury athletes

Cheers

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: ho...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ho...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Graham Pearce
Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2012 4:30 PM
To: ho...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: ::HOPAU:: Paralympic Athlete Categories

[Graham Pearce]

Hi Greg,

These sound much better. My only quibble is that I'd use noun forms rather
than adjectival ones for some of them (i.e. Category:Athletes with cerebral
palsy, Category:Athletes with intellectual impairment (to line up with
Category:People with intellectual impairment) and Category:People with
spinal cord injury (or perhaps add the "a"? I'm not sure). The "les autres"
category will probably require a brief explanation on the category page
about what "les autres" means in this case.

[Tony Naar]

Greg, Graham, Courcelles, et al,

This is a very interesting discussion.

In discussing this with me yesterday, Greg made the point that the parents, families and friends of people with a disability may be interested in, and inspired by, the stories of Paralympic athletes who have the same disability. For them, it would be very helpful to be able to search for athletes according to their disability.

As an organisation, we are regularly asked by sponsors, media, schools, etc. for information and stories about athletes who acquired their disability under specific circumstances (such as congenital, illness, workplace accidents or motor vehicle accidents) or athletes with specific disabilities (spinal cord injury, etc.). It would seem likely that there is also interest in the community in being able to find out about athletes who acquire their disability under various conditions.

I can see the point about not creating endless categories just for the sake of it, but I can also see the point of creating categories which may perform a wider social role, as we already know that Paralympic sport and Paralympic athletes influence our community in many ways.

So, I would prefer to see more specific categories, rather than fewer.

However, if the consensus would be for fewer, then I would suggest a slight variation on Greg's list:

Athletes with vision impairment
Amputee class athletes
Cerebral palsy class athletes
Les autres class athletes
Athletes with an intellectual disability
Wheelchair athletes

This is a difficult one, as the wheelchair classes actually can include athletes with amputations or cerebral palsy, as well as athletes with other conditions such as polio. However, to call that class spinal cord injury (SCI) athletes to me then infers that all athletes in that class will have a SCI.

Regards,

TN

Tony Naar | General Manager, Knowledge Services
Australian Paralympic Committee | PO Box 596  Sydney Markets  NSW  2129
T +61 2 9704 0510 | M +61 418 684 108 E tony...@paralympic.org.au | W www.paralympic.org.au

We help Australians with disabilities participate in sport and compete at the Paralympic Games
through partnerships with governments, business, sporting bodies and the community.

The information contained in this email message may be confidential or copyright information of the Australian Paralympic Committee Ltd (ABN 41 810 234 213; ACN 061 547 957). If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify me by reply.

Hi Graham and Courcelles

Cheers

Greg

Hi Greg,

Regards, Graham

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[Graham Pearce]

Hi Tony,

I now understand your point about categories for how people acquired their
disability ... I can imagine that they could be interesting not just for
athletes, but for other notable people as well. A good example is Steven
Fletcher, a Canadian Member of Parliament who has quadriplegia due to a car
accident:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Fletcher

But none of the categories in his article deal with *how* he got his
disability. We could have "Category:People with a disability acquired
through a motor accident", "Category:People with a congenitally acquired
disability"(which would obviously be a parent of, say, Category:People with
Down syndrome), etc. This would obviously go way beyond the scope of the
HOPAU project, and perhaps subcategories could be made with "Athletes with a
disability acquired through a road accident" etc, when there are enough
members (which I'm sure there will be with the HOPAU athletes alone).

I had this problem when writing the article about Noel Robins, who acquired
his disability (quadriplegia) through a road accident and then died from
another one many years later. I could record that he was a pedestrian road
accident victim in the cats, but not how his first accident affected him.

I like your system for classifying Paralympic athletes into their six
classes. I wouldn't object to the "Blind athletes" cat being renamed,
because I know that some people find the term "blind" offensive (I'm not one
of them, and don't really understand the problem).

[Tony Naar]

Graham,

I think also that the term "vision impaired" gets used because not everyone who has a vision impairment is blind, although all blind people have a vision impairment!

If you and Greg are able to progress this concept that would be much appreciated and very useful to us.

[John Vandenberg]

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:01 PM, . Courcelles <courcel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The tree might be legit, but breaking these down by /nationality/
> would almost surely be deleted at CFD as a trivial triple
> intersection.

For trivial intersections like this, we have an external tool which performs the task very quickly.  It will only produce 1000 results.

https://toolserver.org/~magnus/catscan_rewrite.php

Depth: 10
Categories: Blind_athletes
Paralympic_competitors_for_Australia

--
Click "Do it", and once the page has loaded scroll down to the bottom to see

Results

Subset

Title	Page ID	Namespace	Size (bytes)	Last change	Groups
Matt Levy	32457243	(Article)	3934	20120228013014	2
Tracey Cross	33247413	(Article)	9560	20120307150426	2
David Goodman (athlete)	33256121	(Article)	2857	20120301120023	2
type	subset
count	3

Query took 3.6658549308777 seconds.

Searched 32 categories.

--
John Vandenberg

[Graham Pearce]

Hi Tony,

OK, I'll create the fundamental category structure later this afternoon.

[John Vandenberg]

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Graham Pearce <grah...@jazi.net> wrote:
> Hi Tony,
>
> OK, I'll create the fundamental category structure later this afternoon.

I think this needs to be discussed with the Disability project before
it is created. It may have been already discussed and/or rejected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Disability

--
John Vandenberg

[. Courcelles]

Agreed, the idea of "athlete by disability" is legit. Enough so that
I'm surprised it does not exist. And any slight variations of names
needed can easily be handled at CFD (category renames, as well as
deletions, are within CFD's jurisdiction)

Consider, however, using the term "sportsperson". Athlete in the
category system generally refers to those who compete in "Athletics",
what at least us Americans call track and field.

[Graham Pearce]

Alright, I've opened a discussion there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Disability#New_disability_categories

It'd be preferable it if the discussion could be centralised on-wiki. If you
don't feel comfortable posting there, write a message on this list and I
will forward it to the WikiProject talk page. Try to remember to sign your
messages with four tildes (~~~~) and to use indentation (i.e. by adding a
colon (:) in front of your message when replying to a previous post.

Regards, Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vandenberg" <jay...@gmail.com>
To: <ho...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: ::HOPAU:: Paralympic Athlete Categories

[Graham Pearce]

Hi all,

I've finally created the category tree at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Paralympic_competitors_by_disability_category

I tried to keep the naming as consistent as possible. I created the
categories before reading the message below, so perhaps it might have been a
good idea to change "Paralympic competitors with cerebral palsy" to
"Cerebral palsy class Paralympic competitors" ... but things get a bit murky
here!

I lso split Category:Blind athletes into Category:Sportspeople with a vision
impairment and Category:Paralympic competitors with a vision impairment. Any
help filling the new categories out would be appreciated.

[Elizabeth Edmondson]

Hi graham can you please add my name to wheelchair athletes

Cheers Elizabeth

[Graham Pearce]

Hi Elizabeth,

Thanks, done.

[Elizabeth Edmondson]

Thank you

Cheers Elizabeth

[Tony Naar]

Graham,

Thanks - this is very useful. Do you have a list of Australian Paralympians who have NOT been included in this new category because their disability category is unknown? I might be able to provide some advice with that list.

Also, is there any chance of creating the "how they acquired their disability" category? As per my comment below, this could be of ongoing interest to a range of people.

[Graham Pearce]

Hi Tony,

I've just been adding categories to articles I've created and to well-known
Paralympians, such as Priya Cooper, at the moment. I've also added these
categories in the course of maintenence (;for example when splitting the
"Blind athletes" category).

Most of them are fairly straightforward to determine, except those for which
there isn't much info available in the first place (e.g. Malcom Chalmers).
Some I can guess ... would Roy Fowler be in the wheelchair class? I was
about 90% sure that Julie Higgins would be categorised under les altres. Is
there a listing somewhere?

Re: the categories for how people acquired their disabilities, this got a
lukewarm reception at the WikiProject Disability talk page, primarily
because this info would not be easily available for each person with a
disability:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Disability#New_disability_categories

[Tony Naar]

Graham,

Thanks for adding these categories and for commencing the task of allocating athletes to the categories. In terms of allocating athletes to the categories, I could tell you off the top of my head the categories for most of the Australian Paralympians from 1996 onwards and also those at the other end of the history of Australian Paralympic teams. However, I am not sure if that would constitute sufficient verifiability to meet Wikipedia's requirements?

Regarding the category for how athletes acquired their disability, let's hold it over for now. I personally still feel strongly that it is something that could be of interest and relevance, but I can see that there are other issues to address at the moment. I looked at some of the links from the discussion page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Disability#New_disability_categories) and it is obvious that there is a fair bit of organisation to be done in the catgeories which already exist, without creating new categories! (And I have enough trouble keeping up with the work in the Paralympic history project!)

[Graham Pearce]

Hi Tony,

The verifiability system for categories is a bit fluid. We can't attach
footnotes to categories, so all we require is that the page has a sourced
statement somewhere in the article that shows that the category applies to
the person. So adding the text "Joe Bloggs is vision impaired. [source]"
somewhere in the article is good enough for the person to be added to

Category:Paralympic competitors with a vision impairment.

If the classification system for an event indicates a person's disability
category (which is more often true for earlier athletes?), then that would
be good enough as well.

[John Vandenberg]

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Tony Naar <Tony...@paralympic.org.au> wrote:
> Graham,
>
> Thanks - this is very useful. Do you have a list of Australian Paralympians who have NOT been included in this new category because their disability category is unknown? I might be able to provide some advice with that list.

Tony,

The category intersection tool can display a list of articles in one
category excluding those in another category.

Here is the list ..

https://toolserver.org/~magnus/catscan_rewrite.php?depth=10&categories=Paralympic+competitors+for+Australia&negcats=Paralympic+competitors+by+disability+category&doit=1

There are 340 articles about Australian Paralymic competitors that are
not in the new disability code category system.

--
John Vandenberg

[Elizabeth Edmondson]

hi graham,

Bill mather brown had polio so should be in wheelchair athlete category.

Also all 1960, 1964 and 1968 paras should be in this category- until the year they added more categories - ie blind, amputees etc.

Cheers

Elizabeth

> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 18:52:35 +1100

> Subject: Re: ::HOPAU:: Paralympic Athlete Categories

> From: jay...@gmail.com
> To: ho...@googlegroups.com

[Graham Pearce]

Thanks Elizabeth, will work on this.

 

Regards, Graham

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Elizabeth Edmondson

To: HOPAU

Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 4:04 PM

Subject: RE: ::HOPAU:: Paralympic Athlete Categories