RE: [hockeynet:812] Re: [refereesguild] RE: CMAS International Tournament Calendar [1 Attachment
Matt Blair
I really, REALLY hope that NZ's athletes had no desire to go to this tournament. I also hope that the rumor that NZ is boycotting the WAA in favor of CMAS as to appease the IOC in some misguided hope of an Olympic bid for our small sport is false.
"In order for a sport or discipline to be in included in the Summer Olympics program (but not necessarily be contested at the Olympics), it must be widely practiced by men and women, in at least 75 and 50 countries, respectively, spread over four continents."
"In November 2002, the IOC decided at its Extraordinary Session in Mexico City, to curb the growth of the Olympic programme and limit the number of sports in the Games of the Olympiad to 28. At the same time, the number of events was limited to 301 and the number of athletes to 10,500."
Factsheet: The sports on the Olympic programme (PDF). International Olympic Committee. p. p. 5. http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_1135.pdf.
So in other words, there is as good a chance of underwater hockey becoming an Olympic sport as I have of becoming a Chinese Fighter Pilot.
Matt
P.S. Theoretically, where and when would be the next tournament where a US team could play a NZ team? Just curious.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:37:08 -0800
From: kateand...@xtra.co.nz
Subject: [hockeynet:812] Re: [refereesguild] RE: CMAS International Tournament Calendar [1 Attachment
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Date: Friday, 20 November, 2009, 1:28 PM |
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Subject: RE: [hockeynet:813] Re: [refereesguild] RE: CMAS International Tournament Calendar [1 Attachment
Darryl Brambilla
First, thank you for your responses and a few comments regarding those who are still concerned:
#2 - Limiting the World Cup to only 6 Elite teams from Men & Women is a step backwards. There are elite teams all over the world who want the chance to participate at the world championship and you are denying them this right. A team that may perform poorly at one of the other tournaments (i.e. - America's) may still be able to improve their team through hard work and practice and still be a champion at a World Cup however they would have been denied under this new structure. The World Cup should be open to all teams - not just top 6 teams. I understand the reasons due to time and finances, however I think we have made good progress with some changes over the past 2 worlds to help this. If CMAS was concerned about keeping costs down then there would be no need for 2 representatives paid for to attend the World Cup - 1 is more than enough. As well, if I read this correctly then this now means that organizers will have to pay for CMAS people to attend each sanctioned event (i.e. - Americas / Euros, etc) thus costing the entire community more funds at the end of the day. I don't see how this is financially better for federations.
#5, #14 - This response offers absolutely NOTHING to the players around the world. You are stating that you will do your best to avoid players / countries being penalized and would vote against it, etc however in the end if CMAS decided to penalize the players then at least you tried - oh well. That is like saying I will try to win the world championship but if I don't, oh well, I tried my best. CMAS MUST GUARANTEE that players / federations will not be penalized for attending the WAA or any other world championship event for that matter. If CMAS continues to try to use this as power against federations to make a "choice" as to which championship to attend then CMAS will fail. Given the current financial situation of CMAS and the fact they are trying to reach out to hockey people around the world to support them I believe this would not be in their best interests. Please provide a formal written guarantee from CMAS that players / federations will not be penalized - this is the only acceptable answer.
#13 - So, the final answer from CMAS regarding Jersey being able to play as their own country at the World Cup is "No" but they feel bad about this and there is no exception. Really? Today we have a completely open World Championship under the WAA to all countries and Jersey is also allowed to participate. How many other future countries will be put in the same position? What about if we wanted countries like China, Hong Kong? Would China be allowed but not Hong Kong who essentially follow the similar situation to Jersey? This is very sad....sad that CMAS cannot make allowances for situations such as this.
#16 - WAA World Championships in the USA in 2012 is well organized already and well underway in their planning. They have been working towards this for the past few years now and are in the final stages of preparation. It will surely be one of the highlights to be remembered - and - again open to ALL COUNTRIES for participation and NOT limited to the top 6 Elite teams only. ALL Divisions, ALL Countries will be invited to the best of my knowledge.
#17 - Again, as I stated previously....athletes care about 1 thing - competing against many other nations for the world championship and wanting to play against the worlds best players. Whether that happens at the World Games, WAA World Championships, CMAS World Cup, etc does not matter. What matters is that they have the opportunity to compete in this type of venue.
Under the current structure while it does look like there has been some progress thanks to Thomas and others involved in the new commission there are still issues that remain such as the items above and I am not so sure CMAS will ever get past these. For this reason alone I fail to see the logic in supporting an organization which fails to bring the hockey community together and is financially in trouble. Unless these issues can be changed I personally will NOT support CMAS but am open to this in the future should things change.
Kind Regards,
Darryl Brambilla
Chief Referee - Canada
Dec 3, 2009 at 6:50 AM, tom hockeysub <t...@hockeysub.com> wrote:
Hi all,
first I want to apologize for the long delays for response, we did try to summarize all the questions and reply
If you need some more information feel free to ask but please signed the mail with your name and qualification in your country
Like :
Robert Duval
secretary of FFDC
Finland
in order to see if your data are correct
1- What does CMAS has to offer to the players?
1. The GASIF (CIO) recognition.
2- Some can´t see any sense in CMAS games (with all the different sports, such a big event but we say a champ with all categories all together will take too long). They don´t really see what uwh has to do with the rest of cmas sports
1. In CMAS games only 6 elite team will participate during one week . I do agree that we don’t care about other sports but it is the only way to create a big event which attracts more people.
3- They think 4 years is too long, specially for juniors, who will only have the chance to play once o a maximum of twice in this category at worlds
1. Juniors will be able to play U-19 and later in U-23 categories before going to the world cup. Too many great players can afford a championship every 2 years It´s a very short time.
4- they say you should find out from the people making decisions at CMAS what they want and what they are willing to negotiate with before proceeding to work with the WAA. There is no point in wasting everyone´s time to try and resolve this if they are not willing to compromise
1. The only decision was the World games. All the other are just misunderstandings and lack of communication
5- Will CMAS allow those who want to participate in Colombia, or will the countries/ players be penalized?
1. Why should you? Anyway, as president of the commission I´ll do my best to avoid this situation
6- What is the cost of belonging to CMAS for players?
1. 4,5 euro per license plus fees to the CMAS for your federation about 200-300 euro
7- What is the cost of representative attending?
1. Provide the hotel and food for the President of CMAs commission and the tournament director plus one representative of the CMAS HQ for the duration of his stay usually 2/5 days
8- Is there an annual fee for 6 and 7?
1 reply in 6 an 7
9- They want to know why Colombia couldn´t finally get CMAS sanctioned
1. Because the Hockey sub association could get the right for the FEDECAS who is register to CMAS to organize a championship.
10- They say we have “ lack of communication” . They think everything , every achievement or attempt or failure, should be made public
1. Everything will be published as soon as the CMAS web site is operational
11- They ask you to direct them to a website where they can read the complete proposal (with all changes, categories, champs and reasons)
1. The website is under development it should be release soon end of the month
12- They want to know what being OIC recognized will mean. Some say it is impossible to be recognized by IOC and much more impossible become an Olympic sport.
1. That could give you some support from your federations or government.
13- What happens with “ the Jersey issue”
1. The Jersey issue was very sad and I felt very sorry, but in life we have to make choices. Jersey hasn´t CIO recognition and we must follow the rules of the CIO
14- Could you make a communication telling those attending Colombia will not be penalized?
1. See #5. I cannot promise. I can just say I´ll vote against all penalizing issue if one is propose by the BOD
15- if all the UWH commissions in the world have seen the proposal by Romain and if they sent you an answer.
1. We sent it too all countries and asked people to send it to their representatives. So far we have got some answers but not from all. Most of these answers support our proposal.
16- USA is ready for 2012.
2. So far there is no even in 2012 you can propose for a continental cup of america’s
17 We could explain the situation:
Every amateur athlete wishes to compete at the highest level, the ultimate being the Olympic Games.
The highest level for sports that are not accepted for the Olympic Games is the International World Games.
CMAS is a member of the International World Games Association.
To ensure CMAS athletes are ready to compete in the World Games if given the chance CMAS games are run under similar rules.
Therefore eligibility rules for nations wishing to play in the CMAS games will be similar to eligibility rules for nations wishing to play in the World Games and the Olympics.
Many different disciplines will play at the CMAS games - Underwater Hockey being one of the sports.
Due to time constraints only the top six or eight national UWH teams will qualify to play at the CMAS games to find the true World Champions.
CMAS Underwater Hockey Commission will run a World Cup tournament purely for Underwater Hockey to find the top teams eligible to play in the CMAS games.
CMAS Underwater Hockey Commission will also run tournaments for teams other than the elite such as Masters and Under 19/Under 23 to give young athletes the experience to compete at world level before they are strong enough to compete in elite teams.
CMAS Underwater Hockey Commission will strive to attain the highest levels of play for its members.
We may not be eligible to play in the World Games yet but we will put in place the building blocks to allow future players the chance to compete at the highest possible level when the chance arises.
Other tournaments may be run for the fun of playing underwater hockey but only CMAS tournaments have a legitimate route to the world stage.
Best regards
Thomas de Trébons
President of the CMAS Underwater Hockey commission
tel : +33 (0)6 03 06 03 69
De : Liam Watson [mailto:leele...@hotmail.com]
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Objet : RE: [hockeynet:813] Re: [refereesguild] RE: CMAS International Tournament Calendar [1 Attachment
Doug Roth
#2 - Limiting the World Cup to only 6 Elite teams from Men & Women is a step backwards. There are elite teams all over the world who want the chance to participate at the world championship and you are denying them this right.
I don't think you should be using the term "right" in this context. It is a privilege to play, not a right.
Is it a step backwards? Really? How do you know? What hockey experience supports that argument? If limiting the event to 6 teams is what they think will make hockey better, let them. It might make it better or it might have people pulling out because it costs too much to go that route. It hasn't happened yet and until it happens, we really won't know.
#5, #14 - This response offers absolutely NOTHING to the players around the world. You are stating that you will do your best to avoid players / countries being penalized and would vote against it, etc however in the end if CMAS decided to penalize the players then at least you tried - oh well. That is like saying I will try to win the world championship but if I don't, oh well, I tried my best.
Not at all! Okay, I think it offers nothing, but your comparison is horrible. I think most teams go into worlds with the intent to win it. And usually all but one come out and say, "oh well, I tried my best". One gets to say they tried their best and won. Sometimes you will get people who blame refs or say they just played a bad game at the wrong time. But none of that is like what Tom is saying. However, what he should say is more along the lines that he will campaign to not penalize, not just vote no if it happens to be brought up. Take an active role in getting through to the decision makers that everyone should be welcome regardless of where they have played in the past.
The important thing for hockey at this stage is that information about this stuff gets out. I don't care who is on which side making whatever arguments, as long as the facts are put out so people can make knowledgeable decisions. Personally, I would like to see the leadership not play the role of dictator in such a way that countries cannot participate in whatever process is used to reach the top.
How about people put their emotions and egos and grudges away for a year or ten, use common sense, and argue facts with reasonably logical arguments? I can't stand CMAS, but that shouldn't stop me from looking at the process as something that might help. We can shoot down everything if we put a certain slant on it. All of what WAA does or all of what CMAS does. It doesn't matter.
Duck
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