Windows
Milt Fisher
I'd like some recommendations for hexayurt windows. I'm not interested in framed, sliding windows with screens, just some plastic of some kind taped over a hole in the panel. Any recommendations on what kind of plastic to use? Thin plexiglas maybe? Or perhaps flexible vinyl?
Mark S
of the opening seems like it would work to me.
The hinged cutout worked well with the Hexacomb H12 we built in '09.
We did need to create a "handle" to pull the cutouts in and out
We also sealed (taped) a furnace filter to the outside of the opening
to provide air flow, deal with dust and let in filtered light. The
openings were centered in opposing side walls about 3 ft off the
ground, with the hope of creating a cross breeze. In practice, the
filters clogged with dust within hours, were annoying to clean and the
cross breeze was minimal. Partial success - I vowed to try an
alternative the next time.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21ziiAdzDmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
-Mark
Steve Upstill
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Ray Kornele
KrazyKyngeKorny (Krazy, not stupid)
Milt Fisher
How did you make the handles for the window cutouts?
Milt Fisher
Jack Senechal
worked great. You could do two for better insulation, one inside and
one out. And if you have two panels of plexiglass, you can bolt
through them for extra solidity. But I think that might be overkill
for the Playa. Having the cutout in there to block the sun during the
part of the day when it shines in the window directly would probably
be a good idea.
Regarding ventilation, I suspect that it would work well to generate
an updraft by installing a black chimney pipe in the roof. That would
draw air up when the sun shines on it, pulling it in through your
vents below.
As an added bonus, you could put a damp cloth over the vent so air has
to pass through it, which would cool it down and moisturize the air.
You'd need a course fabric for that, something that's absorbent and
loosely woven so air could pass through well. You could drape the
bottom into a bucket of water, and it would wick it up continuously.
I haven't actually tried those ventilation ideas to work out the kinks
yet, but I intend to do that this year. The principles behind it are
sound though :)
Jack
Steve Upstill
Cody Firestone
My materials:
Simlar set up as the above instructable, however the small pump and fan are solar.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66093
Small Solar Fan http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Powered-Window-Ventilator-Adjustable/dp/B000SZV8I0
6 inch fan - 225 CFM which is pretty good for a tent and easy to put in a dryer vent exhaust tube.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=solar+fan&hl=en&safe=active&cid=481642046482185617&ei=McjMS6rfDZaq2ASuqsTmCQ&sa=image&ved=0CB8Q8gIwBDgA#
Medium Sized, really simple to install in duct
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367065_200367065?cm_ven=Aggregates&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Alternative%20%2B%20Renewable%20Energy%3ESolar%20Solutions&cm_ite=336620?ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=336620
Lucas González
>cool humidified air
Cody Firestone
SURE, Bring a big generator and airconditioning unit. You may even be able to find a propane powered one, however the normal humidity on playa is 6% yes that is SIX percent in september.
You NEED the 30 % humidity a sawmp cooler might add so you dont dehydrate overnight just by breathing.
All electonics,sound systems for art, etc should be built to playa standards. That means air heat sink cooled and in sealed metal enclosures, etc for anykind of reliability it is best that ti make componets whcih r swapable ccheck out bmord site for more info on tthat
From Cyberspace. Please forgive syntax and spelling, I do actually know English. :-)
Lucas González
D.V.Rogers
hexayurt is cheap male/female PVC plumbing fittings. 100mm and 150mm
(4" and 6") in diameter. Attached is a .jpg of these components. In
Australia they are around $8-$10 a pair from the Home Depot equivalent
called Bunnings. cut hole in ply on thermax sheet and tape to the
outside (or seal with silicon) with female cap on the inside of
hexayurt. its not a window per say but lets light in and can be
sealable when rain or dust storms appear..
/dvr
=====================
http://disastr.urbanaction.org
=====================
Cody Firestone
ken winston caine
that works pretty well.
Haven't experimented with EVERY fabric known to man, but did find,
surprisingly, that absorbant paper towels tended to wick better than about
any cloth fabric I could test.But even., then, they tend to wick up only
about 6 inches above the water surface.
What really helps is to hang them with open pleats facing the air source and
allowing a tiny bit of air space between each hanging wick. That allows the
air to pass between them a tiny bit. If using a high-efficiency, low-wattage
12v fan made for use in RVs and campers, having the open end of the pleat
facing the fan's exhaust also helps the pleats balloon a bit and speeds
evaporation.
My design provides 8 to 10 degree cooling for about 5 feet in front of the
swamp cooler exhaust. So it's a personal cooler, not a room cooler. Although
it does noticeably help cool the room a tiny bit, so long as you have fresh
air vents in the room bringing in occasional super dry gusts. That's when
you notice the moisture evaporating in areas of the room other than directly
in front of the cooler.
The more folds of wicking material you can fit in your box (if buidling a
swamp cooler) the more cooling effect you'll get.
Have yet to experiment with putting the fan on the top of the box, ponting
down at the wicks and water tray on the bottom. Am planning to test that
next.
Have tried quite a few variations. Have found that the fan BEHIND the wicks,
blowing air through them, provides better cooling than locating the fan in
front of the wicks so that it *draws* the air through the wicks.
Also have found that having a larger intake opening than exhaust opening
seems to help a bit, too. About a 2::1 ratio has seemed best in my
experiments.
You can do these with cardboard boxes and duct tape and rubber maid
shoe-box size plastic containers.
The type of fan I use is this:
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/fan-tastic-endless-breeze-12v-fan/38132
I also found at the end of summer about six years ago at a Wal Mart in
Albuquerque a season closeout price on Wal-Mart's "Ozark Trails" version of
this fan and bought seven of them for $4 each and am using those in two of
my swamp cooler. They actually use less wattage than the Endless Breeze, but
push slightly less air through, too.
May have been four years ago I wrote here about Buckminster Fuller's proven
"cooling effect," but have not yet heard of anyone experimenting with it on
the playa with hexayurts.
Fuller proved that putting a rain-capped stovepipe in the center of the roof
of his circular dymation house or at the apex of the roof of a geodesic
dome, and then having open vents about 1 foot above floor level around the
walls of the building created an amazing, counter-intuitive cooling effect.
The ratio of low-wall vent airflow capacity to roof vent was about 4 to 1,
if I recall correctly.
What happens -- and Fuller demonstrated this multiple times, including in a
dome at the equator built for the U.S. military -- is that as the ground
around the building and the walls of the building heat up as the sun beats
down, this creates a flow of warm air rising around the outside of the
building. That rising air creates suction at the floor level vents, pulling
air out of the building. That causes a rush of air to be pulled down into
the building through the roof vent.
Fuller said this phenomenon extends for hundreds of feet into the air above
the building. So you have hot air rising in a circle around the building and
COOL air from higher in the atmosphere hundreds of feet above the building
being sucked down the center of the invisible column.
The cooling effect was commonly reported to be in the range of 20 degrees.
That is, the air coming in through the root pipe and dropping on the room
had an effect of cooling the room by about 20 degrees from its temperature
with the vents all closed.
Pretty amazing. Completely passive (other than opening and closing vents).
And, other than the initial cost to build (the pvc or stove pipe and rain
cap and dampers), free.
I say that this is counter intuitive because normally we expect interior
heat to rise and exit through a roof vent. And normally it does. And that
certainly helps exhaust heat from the room or building. But it doesn't bring
in a nice, steady, flow of cool air that drops on the room from the ceiling.
Hope that helps inspire someone to experiment and report their results.
Best,
ken winston caine
ken winston caine
1. Don't put a window on the south facing side of your yurt. North side is
best. Then it will never get any direct sun but will let in daylight.
2. I suggested about four years ago using a water-filled quart or gallon
glass jar sealed into a north-facing roof panel -- center the jar in the
hold so that an equal amount extends above the roof as does below. You can
seal it in with Liquid Nails (one of the two versions that is foam friendly)
or wire it in with tiny holes for the wire caging running through the roof
around the outside of the hole you cut for the jar. So you loop the wire
through the roof enough times to fully support the jar. A gallon cider jar
filled will weight about 9 pounds. (Once wired in place, seal on the outside
around the jar and over the wire holes.)
I'm sure I wasn't the first to come up with this idea. Just this last year,
someone "invented" it in South America.
For permanent installs in frigid climates you'd want to fill the jar with a
50-50 antifreeze mix.
What happens, is the water-filled jar, with equal portions above the roof
and below the ceiling, catches anyt existing light and refracts it into the
room. Including moonlight at night. Locating it on a north-facing roof
panel reduces the amount but does not stop it from catching direct sunlight
for much of the day.
3. I know Cody and others have mentioned this. Just want to reiterate. If
using a swamp cooler you must have two things for efficiency:
1. An intake source of low-humidity air.
2. A substantial exit vent for damp (cooled) air.
Evaporative coolers only work when the air inside is dry enough to quickly
evaporate the added, cooler, moist air coming out of the swamp cooler. If
you don't exhaust the excess moisture from the room, and don't have some
fresh dry air entering the room, you won't have cooling. You'll have
miserable tropical humidity.
Hope that helps,
-- ken winston caine
----- Original Message -----
From: "D.V.Rogers" <d...@allshookup.org>
To: <hexa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [hexayurt] Windows
kenwinston caine
-- that would meet your needs (no ventillation, just light) could be
made like this:
-- Decide your shape. Round? Diamond? Rectangle? Square?
-- If round, buy a darning hoop at a crafts store. (Made of wood, in
various diameters; they cost from $1.50 to $3 or so.)
-- Buy a roll of clear wrap -- the flexi stuff they wrap boxes with
after stacking them on pallets, so the load won't shift.
-- Wrap your frame. Your hoop, or whatever. (You could form other
shapes ((rectangle, square, etc.)) out of metal coathanger wire and
wrap them.)
-- Cut the hole in the foam slightly smaller than the wrapped window
and glue or tape the window on the outside. You might want to attach a
piece of mylar-fused bubblewrap insulation on the inside for when you
want privacy or for when you want to keep the light or heat out. A
piece of cardboard covered in aluminum foil also would do the job.
Hope that inspires you.
-- ken winston caine
Jack Senechal
definitely the opposite of what I would have expected. I'll have to
set up my hexayurt soon and experiment with these things... a 20
degree cooling effect would be totally rocking. I wonder what the
effect of surrounding vegetation or structures would be.
I've actually got an old chimney hole in the roof in the living room,
with a cap and all just no stove. I'll have to try opening it up and
see what it does.
I'm really interested in passive cooling techniques like that (and
heating too, for permanent hexayurt installations). One of the biggest
reasons being that they are totally quiet. I also love that they are
self-regulating (for cooling at least), giving you the biggest cooling
action when you need it the most. There's just something terribly
elegant about that :)
Jack
kenwinston caine
post for typos. Plenty of them to be found there.
Whenever I first presented this information to the group -- in summer
'08 or '07, I sent links to Fuller drawings. Don't have those at hand
at the moment.
And, more I've thought about it this evening, I am not sure that I
ever was able to determine for certain the ratio of floor to roof vent
air volume. Think I guessed 4:1. But don't recall finding it in any
writings or penciled in on any sketches. Also, should note, Fuller did
not use a stove pipe. I just suggested that (or 4" PVC) for a simple
hexayurt experiment.
Fuller's Dymaxion House prototype built in Kansas had an extremely
sophisticated roof vent that actually equalized air pressure indoors
and out and passively lifted and lowered itself (opening and closing
the vent to varying degrees) depending upon wind and a lot of other
factors. This (and the circular design) allowed the house to withstand
tornadoes that leveled buildings on properties on either side of the
Dymaxion property.
Interestingly, Fuller also concocted a system of tiny drains in the
aluminum beams of the roof that automatically condensed, captured and
drained off moisture, effectively dehumidifying the interior air in
what is a very humid summer climate.
Final bit about the "cooling effect." Fuller claimed the floor vents
and cooling effect also made the house "self-cleaning." That is,
ambient dust was sucked out the vents before it could settle on
furnishings and the floor.
-- ken winston caine
> >> I was planning to tape the filters to the outside after setting up. That
> >> way
> >> I could replace the cutouts during dust storms if too much dust came
> >> through
> >> the filters.
> >> Did you just have one filter? Was that enough to provide ventilation?
>
> read more »
The Distinguished ...
> On Jul 4, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Milt Fisher wrote:
>
> I'd like some recommendations for hexayurt windows. I'm not
> interested in framed, sliding windows with screens, just some plastic
> of some kind taped over a hole in the panel. Any recommendations on
> what kind of plastic to use? Thin plexiglas maybe? Or perhaps
> flexible vinyl?
> Any other ideas for simple windows?
>
>
> I'm planning to tape the plastic to the outside and hinge the panel
> cutout into the window opening so we can close it when we want
> darkness.
Have you thought about "Deck Prisms"? They have been used on old
sailing ships for decades. Unlike the plastic bottle solution (the
bleach/copper is to help keep things from growing, antifreeze is good
too) these are solid. The same thing can be done with a reflective
inner surface, catching the light and drawing it down. If you combine
this with fuller's pipe, you have light and ventilation. Throw a
fresnel lens or two in the mix, and your light is that much more
intense.
Percy
kenwinston caine
this up.
They're an elegant solution for permanent installs, though pricey to
get them in a decent size. I shopped quite a few sites. The small ones
are affordable. But to get something the size of a quart or gallon
jar, you're going to pay hundreds of dollars, I think. So -- if it's
for a a dark room in a dwelling you're planning to live in for 30
years or longer -- well worth the investment. Although you can
accomplish pretty much the same thing by reusing a an otherwise
discarded or recycled glass jar and some methanol or other antifreeze.
In my climate, even a methanol-filled jar is likely to freeze and
expand just enough to break on a winter night at least once every five
years. A deck prism is not going to freeze and break.
Now, tell me more about fuller's pipes. When I Google the term, I come
up with plumbers and plumbing supply shops owned by folks named
Fuller.
And yes, the news report about the South American who this year
"invented" water-filled plastic bottle refracting lights does put an
antibacterial of some sort in his bottles. I think it WAS bleach. And
I'm sure that is to stop the otherwise inevitable algae growth (and
other flora). Although anyone who has owned a hot tub knows that
chlorine is ineffective in halting algae growth in hot water. And
these bottles, catching the sun all day, are certain to hold hot
water. It probably does slow down the growth of algae and bacteria for
quite awhile though.
Do recall that in the You Tube video of the news report they used a
candlepower measuring device and found that a 1 litre water-filled
bottle refracting sunlight into a darkened room provided the
equivalent amount of light as does a 60-watt incandescent bulb. Nice
for a simple, free solution. Not sure what time of day and under what
weather conditions that measurement was taken. If at noon on a clear
day then that's probably about the max a 1-litre bottle can produce.
I wouldn't recommend using plastic bottles in permanent installs
because:
1. They will discolor in the sun and lose their effectiveness.
2. Many nowadays contain soybean oil and some other chemistry designed
into them to help them biodegrade (albeit slowly) in landfill
conditions.
Don't think you want to install something in your roof that is going
to need to replaced regularly.
Best,
ken winston caine
On Jul 6, 3:08 pm, "The Distinguished ..." <percyha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Richard Ginn
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6073/ex-pmp-53/Danger_Den_DD-CPX1_12V_3-Pin_Powered_Pump_-_DD-CPX1.html?tl=g30c107s153
Cody Firestone
ken winston caine
Richard Ginn
ken winston caine
Bill Wiltschko
I note that the max voltage rating (13.2v) for the pump is less than that of a fully-charged battery. I wonder what, if anything, happens over 13.2 volts? Still, I have to have one to try out.
Btw, I use two RV-style pumps for my misting system, but none for my swamp cooler. I use gravity instead.
I don’t know what “282 watts per day” means. Is this 282 watt-hours? When everything is 12v, I find amp-hours more useful, although YMMV. An advantage of amp-hours at 12v is that when you translate power use by 120v devices hooked to an inverter to 12v power use, you have to take inverter efficiency into account to calculate 12v amp-hours; you won’t be too optimistic.
Bill
Milt Fisher
Bill Wiltschko
Update: Take a look at these pumps. They draw more current, but combined with a float switch may end up using less power – and they are cheaper.
Bill
Bill Wiltschko
I use ¼” rebar stakes that have a 1” ring welded to the top end. They are about 1 foot long, easy to tie to, easy to remove, and they don’t move once pounded in. I use rope to connect stake to hexayurt, using a trucker’s hitch; this makes it easy to tighten the rope. Plan for a lot of vibration of the rope/strap in the wind. I’d be afraid of using a ratcheting strap, because I might over-tighten it. Drilling a hole at the top of a rebar stake is hard…
This works well for bending rebar: http://www.harborfreight.com/6-ton-a-frame-bench-shop-press-1666.html?utm_campaign=SEO&utm_medium=Inbound_links&utm_source=linking
I bought a hand-operated shop press many years ago, which worked well, but couldn’t find it today at Harbor Freight.
I’ll be interested to see what others’ suggestions are,
Bill
--
Joshua Keroes
I'd like to know what people use to anchor their hexayurts on the playa. How do you connect from the tape anchors at the roof edge to the rebar in the playa? Rope? Ratcheting straps? I think I'm going to use straight 1/2" rebar, rather than candy canes or U's. How would I attach the anchor lines to the rebar? And how long should the rebar be?Thanks.
Milt Fisher
ken winston caine
I don’t know what “282 watts per day” means. Is this 282 watt-hours?
-- Yes. I'm talking watt hours. Early summer on a good sunny day I make about 1,500 watt hours (@ 120v AC). Now that the monsoon season weather pattern has set up here, I'll be making less. Winter days I make about 1,100 watt hours.
Obviously, I'm living on a small electricity budget and every electrical purchase for my home is scaled to that. And I'm always looking for new efficiencies.
When I first switched to solar in 1992 it was quite an adjustment and took about six months of adapting and learning. (And buying less-energy-hungry alternatives for common appliances.) Now I hardly even think about it -- except when considering purchases of electrical devices.
-- ken winston caine
P.S. Bill, in your gravity-fed swamp cooler, how are you controlling the flow to the pads and have you set up a system for capturing and re-using the water that runs through them and collects at the bottom of the cooler? Did you come up with a low-energy way to recirculate that? I may have looked at photos and descriptions of your device a couple years back. Did you post them then?
ken winston caine
Richard Ginn
Steve Upstill
I'd like to know what people use to anchor their hexayurts on the playa. How do you connect from the tape anchors at the roof edge to the rebar in the playa? Rope? Ratcheting straps? I think I'm going to use straight 1/2" rebar, rather than candy canes or U's. How would I attach the anchor lines to the rebar? And how long should the rebar be?Thanks.
Milt Fisher
Cody Firestone
The EASY way to pull out rebar.
Cody Firestone
Cody Firestone
I'd like to know what people use to anchor their hexayurts on the playa. How do you connect from the tape anchors at the roof edge to the rebar in the playa? Rope? Ratcheting straps? I think I'm going to use straight 1/2" rebar, rather than candy canes or U's. How would I attach the anchor lines to the rebar? And how long should the rebar be?Thanks.
Chasomatic
plays without any problems. I would like to use better knots, i'm real
weak there.
charlie
On Jul 10, 12:38 pm, Joshua Keroes <jos...@keroes.com> wrote:
> I use 2' 1/2" rebar with a sharp 90° bend and ratchet straps. Each day, I go
> around the yurt and make sure they're all tight.
>
> I'd use rope and truckers' hitches instead if I didn't have the ratchet
> straps. Personally, I'd put a double hitch on the rebar, go up and over the
> tape anchor, and back down. This would let me crank down on the truckers'
> hitch - pulling down here is easier than pulling up.
>
> -Joshua
>
> PS candy-caned rebar's a pain in the ass. The problem is that when you
> hammer it in, your force is wasted. The bend absorbs some of the energy and
> the fact that you're hammering off the main axis wastes the rest. U's may be
Steve Upstill
But Steve was advocating for U shaped rebar, so I wanted to know how he pulled those out. Can't twist them very well with vicegrips when there are two legs in the ground.
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 7:42 AM, Cody Firestone <4x4...@gmail.com> wrote:
The EASY way to pull out rebar.1. Kick it a couple times to loosen it up.2. Apply vicegrips,3. twist a couple times,
4. it will come right out. If it is stubbon, pour a small amount of clean water on it, and it will pop right out.My favorite way for DEEP rebar. we use 3 footers on our construction projects, you bang on it sideways with the rebar hammer, and it will come right out!You can also use the rebar with the ring welded to it, stick another piece of rebar thru the ring, lever it right out!
Cody Firestone
Bill Wiltschko
I confess that I did not build my swamp cooler myself, but rather used one designed for RVs from turbokool. It has an elegant and simple design. There is a float valve at the water input, so that the bowl does not over- or under-fill. No re-circulation necessary. The combined fan and centrifugal “wicker” pulls water out of the bowl and spins it out into the filter. The filter doubles as porous holder of water to be evaporated and dust filter. Very elegant. It uses about a gallon of water an hour.
--
Joshua Keroes
Steve Upstill
On Jul 11, 2011, at 1:57 AM, Milt Fisher wrote:
Isn't U shape a pain to hammer in?
And how do you pull it out if you can't twist it?
If you ever want to find out just how uninteresting you really are, get a job where the quality and frequency of your thoughts determine your livelihood.
-- Bill Watterson
From: Chris Phoenix <cpho...@gmail.com>Date: August 2, 2010 9:16:55 AM PDTSubject: [hexayurt] Easy way to pull out rebarReply-To: hexa...@googlegroups.comI'm not kidding - it really is easy, not just "easier." You can pull
an 18" stake in one minute flat, without bending the stake, with no
hammer, no vice grips, no rebar puller, just a nylon strap. Just tie a
knot, adjust the strap, squat, and stand.
The last couple of years I've gone around on the last day pulling
dozens of stakes just to show people how to do this. I can pull 100
stakes in a day and not even get tired.
Get a loading strap or other reasonably wide nylon webbing. It should
be about 5 feet long.
Tie one end of the webbing to the stake. A lark's head knot works
well. You want the knot to be self-tightening so the webbing doesn't
slip on the rebar.
Stand over the stake. Wrap the webbing from the stake, around your
thigh, around your butt (not your hips - the padded part of your butt
- you'll get a better pull) and grab the free end. So the webbing
would go from the stake, to the inside of your right upper leg, around
the front of your right leg to the outside, around behind your butt
from right to left, and the free end is held in your left hand.
Squat down about a foot, and pull on the free end to tighten the
webbing. Shuffle around until the webbing is EXACTLY in line with the
stake. A couple inches off, a very slight angle, makes a huge
difference. If the stake is in the ground at an angle, the webbing
should be at the same angle.
Stand up. The stake will come with you.
If it's not all the way out, squat again, pull the webbing tight
again, and stand up again.
One place I went to, they had a 30 foot dome that they'd held down
with 3 foot 1/4" rebar. The rebar had twisted in the ground as they
pounded it in. A team of three people were trying to get it out with
power tools. One other guy and I used the strap, and vice grips to
twist... we pulled five of those twisted 3 foot rebars in about 5
minutes each, before the power-tool team could pull one.
If you use those big smooth construction stakes, the strap may slip;
stick a nail through one of the holes to hold it on.
If the rebar is bent over or eye'd at the top, attach the webbing to
the shaft of the rebar, not the bent part. Even that much of an angle
off-center makes a difference. If you get the strap lined up right,
you'll barely feel it as you stand up; the rebar will just simply come
out.
Chris
--
Chris Phoenix
cpho...@gmail.com
650-776-5195
Founder, http://OnePercentGlobal.org
Executive Coach
Director of Research, Center for Responsible Nanotechnology, http://CRNano.org
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hooperstack
great to keep the yurt cool. I roughly used the design found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/texasdesertlife/sets/72157605888462649/
using a float switch to fill an upper reservoir thereby keeping the
pump operation to a minimum, as I was running off a solar setup. If
you're on a limited power budget, this system is a good way to go.
Here's a picture of it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/texasdesertlife/sets/72157605888462649/
On Jul 10, 9:20 am, Richard Ginn <g...@gii.net> wrote:
> another way to have water flow down over the material is with a large
> reservoir (plastic garbage can) above it that you refill by hand (bucket) as
> needed. 50 gallons would trickle down all night maybe?
>
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 3:31 AM, ken winston caine <
>
>
>
> k...@mindbodyspiritjournal.com> wrote:
>
> > Still, if I'm running it 24 hours a day (along with the fan) during the
> > current 100-plus degree days and high 70s to high 80s nights until about 4
> > a.m. when finally it starts to cool down a little, I'm using 282 watts a
> > day. That's 1/5 of the total electricity I have available each non-overcast
> > day from my solar system. That's a pretty big bite and I can probably afford
> > it only a day or two a week and keep the system healthy.
>
> > It's NOTHING if you're on the grid. And a wonderful savings compared to
> > typical pumps.
>
> > Best,
> > ken winston caine
>
> > P.S. Am going to look into it, anyway. Because it would be really nice to
> > be able to use it if only from 2 p.m. to 8 p.m. or so when the inside of my
> > RV heats up into the middle 90s most days this time of year. My self-wicking
> > coolers bring the air right in front of me and on my face down to the mid
> > 80s while I'm working at my desk, which is much more tolerable than mid 90s.
> > But if I could force more water into the pads, and add pads, I could get
> > better cooling.
>
> > Have been meaning to hook up the Kill-a-Watt meter up to an aquarium pump
> > and see what kind of wattage it draws. If it's less than 6 watts, I'll
> > report that here. (Doubt that it will be.)
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *To:* hexa...@googlegroups.com
> > *Sent:* Saturday, July 09, 2011 10:21 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [hexayurt] Windows and COOLING on the PLAYA
> > For 6 watts you can power a 12-volt CPU water cooling pump that is rated at
> > 132 gallons per hour, and then you don't have to wick the water at all:
>
> >> > I was planning to tape the filters to the outside after setting up. That
> >> > way
> >> > I could replace the cutouts during dust storms if too much dust came
> >> > through
> >> > the filters.
> >> > Did you just have one filter? Was that enough to provide ventilation?
>
> read more »
Jack Senechal
Chasomatic
My pumps come from Harbor Freight and they're Solar powered fountain
pumps for outdoor gardens ($19.95). They have a pressure head of at
least 3 feet and their own solar panel. Net power consumption ZERO!
My fan comes from Frozen CPU, I can't remember the exact numbers right
now but it's specially designed to give a column of air not the normal
dispersal pattern. It draws 0.7 amps to run and puts out around 120
cfm ($31 with shipping). It shoots the air out of the pipe.
I think my total power use will be about 1.0 (.3 pump+.7 fan) amps per
hour. Last year I didn't run the SC very late into the evening but it
may be hotter this year. Maybe 8.5 watts per hour from my 10 watt
solar panel/battery. It's close, but I may be a balanced power
system.
My first effort for this year's swamp cooler was a little weak, but I
still have it. Has anyone built a chest from Hexayurt panels to keep
beer cool? I think my small SC would be enough to work but I don't
know how to calculate the potential temperature drop (would it be
worth it?).
any ideas
ken winston caine
Combine YOUR Harbor Freight Solar-Powered Fountain Pump with this
solar-powered (up to ) 500 CFM fan:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Solar-Powered-Attic-Fan-Gable-Mount-GAF-NIB-10-Watt-12V-/170670714363?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bcc46dfb#ht_548wt_949
And you could actually build a full-size, full-house, four-pad swamp cooler
that draws NO grid energy during strong daylight hours -- which is when you
MOST need cooling in the desert.
I'm working on creating this for a permanent install. Have been
experimenting with super-low-energy swamp cooler prototypes in my
off-the-grid location for years. Never came across the solar-powered outdoor
fountain pump idea before. That solves a huge piece of the puzzle.
(Also, to date, I've not created a 7-watt (AC) or less swamp cooler that
will effectively cool a room. Only ones that will cool the person standing,
sitting or lying directly in front of the cooler's output.)
Thanks so much for sharing this!
-- ken winston caine
any ideas
> read more �
--
ken winston caine
is significant. It claims up to 1775 CFM.
You WOULD have to dismantle and reverse the position of the fan if using as
a swamp cooler blower.
-- ken winston caine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chasomatic" <chas...@gmail.com>
To: "hexayurt" <hexa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 12:39 PM
any ideas
> read more �
--
kenwinston caine
http://cgi.ebay.com/Solar-Powered-Attic-Fan-20W-PV-1300CFM-Venting-Ability-/290587452047?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a85ca28f#ht_1319wt_932
-- kwc
On Jul 21, 1:21 pm, "ken winston caine"
> This solar fan looks even more promising -- although the initial investment
> is significant. It claims up to 1775 CFM.
>
> You WOULD have to dismantle and reverse the position of the fan if using as
> a swamp cooler blower.
>
>
> read more »
KK
http://www.snap-fan.com/
Made in US. Ultra low power DC fans with real CFM.
I personally own an Endless Breeze 12v RV/portable fan. It's pretty
good but it's not like Snap Fan models. Three settings, some guy
measured the power draw.
low: 15 Watts or 1.25 amps @ 12 VDC
medium: 27 Watts or 2.25 amps
high: 35 Watts or close to 3 amps
Endless Breeze custom mount and pics:
http://www.andybaird.com/travels/gertie/fans.htm
Now, somebody go out and buy a Snap Fan and do a *good* YouTube video
of it in operation. Better than this lame one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNO_PWf23wk
Then buy some and keep the company in business. Don't be cheap!
Your nomadic future depends on it.
ken winston caine
Maybe I should pair it with its own solar panel so it's not drawing down my
house batteries.
Did find specs but did not find prices for the Snap-Fan at the company site.
Looks like the 12-watt model of Snap-Fan would moves 1260-plus CFM at 15
watts vs. the Endless Breeze's 900 CFM at 35 watts, and so the Snap-Fan can
get by with a much less expensive solar panel. Probably needs a panel rated
at about 45 watts at 14 volts since it is going to be stationary mounted and
will only produce peak wattage for about an hour or two a day, yet you're
going to want the fan running at full force late into the afternoon if
acting as blower in a swamp cooler.
Interesting. Thanks, KK.
-- ken winston caine
----- Original Message -----
From: "KK" <koffeek...@gmail.com>
To: "hexayurt" <hexa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:14 AM
Subject: [hexayurt] Re: Windows and COOLING on the PLAYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNO_PWf23wk
KK
> I have the Endless Breeze, too. And like it as far as 12v box fans go.
>
> Maybe I should pair it with its own solar panel so it's not drawing down my
> house batteries.
>
> Did find specs but did not find prices for the Snap-Fan at the company site.
12" is $309
16" is $344
20" is $435
24" is $608
28" is $797
Remember, these are US made and probably "industrial grade".
They are meant to be used on greenhouses and real buildings long term.
They move a lot of air compared to all the light duty 12v fans (pretty
much all of them out there).
At 12vdc the 16" snap fan pushes 980 CFM using only .98 amp. Very
nice.
I think the 16" is the "sweet spot" model.
It beats the Endless Breeze hands down.
A single large Snap Fan could be used to vent my hexagon greenhouse at
the peak.
Imagine 5 or 6 floor level vents, equipped with exact flow rate
trickle pads.
Single water pump hooked to container reservoir, small water
distribution hoses to all pads.
Single Snap Fan exhaust in the peak blowing out.
Just like the greenhouse systems with the cardboard trickle pad walls.
Exhaust fan runs between specific temps, when temps fall, the trickle
pad pump slows or shuts off.
The fan keeps running to evaporate water from the pads, then slows.
No wasted water overflow. No wasted power.
Temps climb, fan speeds back up to full...trickle pump resumes.
A very simple PLC and temp sensors could control all of this.
It's a power modulating swamp cooler system.
David Kelso
two bucket method from apropropedia.
http://www.appropedia.org/Burning_Man_Evaporative_Cooler
One major problem was that the water wasn't rising in to the wicking
filter of its own accord. Is that what people are using the pumps for?
To keep the filter constantly wet?
Rather than use a wicking filter, has anyone tried using a mister?
Here's one that looks decent:
http://www.canopycool.com/
Though I'm guessing it would be much cheaper to find a suitable pump
and rig that up myself.
Bill Wiltschko
are a few thoughts. You can rig a mister with an RV water pump and misters
from Lowe's much cheaper than the products at the link you provided. Even
if you add an accumulator (reduces power consumption drastically), an input
filter of some kind, and various fittings, it is still cheaper. The
downsides: it uses water at 10-40x the rate of the swamp cooler, and it is
not suitable for use inside a hexayurt. Inside, the humidity quickly spikes
and stays there, and it gets very wet.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: hexa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:hexa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of David Kelso
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:29 PM
To: hexa...@googlegroups.com
ken winston caine
the water through the swamp cooler filter, keeping it damp and, thus,
working for you so long as the humidity is low in both the outside and
inside environments.
That's why you must have a way to exhaust the indoor air when using a swamp
cooler and need a small supply of dry outside air coming in, too. The
cooling takes place two ways:
1. Inside the evap cooler box as the dry air being drawn through the wet
filter evaporates water and cools the incoming air; and
2. In the room when the moist air from the swamp cooler is evaporated by the
dry air in the room.
If you have a single filter swamp cooler, I would think you could rig up a
really small mister inside the box designed to keep the swamp cooler filter
damp. Like maybe a pump sprayer used in gardening. But you still would want
to recapture the water that drips off the filter and get it back into the
pump sprayer reservoir. And it would require a lot of maintenance. I haven't
experimented with how long a fully pumped pump sprayer will mist its couple
gallons of water supply. I have used one as a shower (it stings, but works)
in my RV. But for that purpose, I warm the water over the stove flame each
day, pour it in the pump container and pump it up. It works. Like I said,
it stings when it hits the body. Very little drip because it produces such a
fine mist and you control the on/off of the spray wand.
But if you had it on all the time, spraying the evap cooler filter, there
WOULD be drip.
You don't want to waste water when your water supply is limited and -- at
the Playa -- is limited to the water you've hauled in.
I think Cahosmatic's suggestion of a solar-powered fountain pump for about
$20 from Harbor Freight is the coolest solution I've heard so far for an
off-the-grid swamp cooler. Am making a trip to the Albuquerque Harbor
Freight later this week and hoping to find one while there.
Pairing that with a solar powered fan really ups the investment but also
makes the thing energy neutral during the periods that the solar fan and
pump are working well -- (probably between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. most sunny
days). You'd probably like an alternate power supply for late afternoon and
evening.
-- ken winston caine
P.S. Swamp cooler parts and accessories are on closeout here in New Mexico
and if I don't grab what I need now to build a new model, I won't get a shot
at it again until late next Spring when summer stuff hits the stores again.
Not sure if I'm going to get around to building a solar powered swamp cooler
until then. My building project takes priority over that. I'll report what I
experience once I've done it.
and 970
http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33842&start=660#p686286
http://burningman.rengeekcentral.com/swampcooler.html
-andreas
Mark S
We built an impromptu chest on the side of our yurt in 2009, and it
was most definitely worth it.
If I recall, we took a 4'x6' panel (result of a cutting mishap - our
first yurt), and cut it into 4 pieces:
4'x2'
4'x2'
2'x2'
2'x2'
_______
|______|
|______|
|___|___|
With the remains of the fourth tape roll, we boxed in an area against
the shadier side of the yurt, and put a lengthwise hinge 2/3 back
along the top panel. Took all of 20 minutes, and our chests were
puffed out for days. :D
In went the coolers for the duration of the burn.
It went a long way to extending the life of our precious ice. The temp
in there was noticeable cooler, as long as we resisted going in/out of
it too often. Once the box was opened, the inside temp very quickly
equalized with the ambient temp. Still, it kept the sun off in the
afternoons. (*terrible* visual here http://prntscr.com/2g997)
If you've got a scrap panel to spare, I highly recommend it.
-Mark
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Steve Upstill
I'm looking at the Frozen CPU site and they have a buttload of 12V fans. Any clues for getting closer to what you're talking about?
Thanks,
Steve
--
There is a problem when the turnover in the United States House of Representatives is lower than it was in the Soviet Politburo.
-- NATHANIEL PERSILY, election law expert at the University of Pennsylvania Law School
David Kelso
I've decided to convert my two bucket system in to the one bucket
system (thanks for the link Andreas). I bought that low wattage pump
too (thanks Richard). And I went with the endless breeze fan (thanks
Ken).
Last thing to find is a way to get the air into the yurt. I'm hoping
I'll find a 12" flexible duct somewhere and be able to skip any size
conversions and just slip it directly over the fan and 5 gal bucket.
david
ken winston caine
Use Trader Joe paper bags (recycled ones). Does your store have a recycling
bin for those at the front? Grab a bunch. Cut out the bottoms and masking
tape bags together as a duct to the proper length. Take some narrow gauge,
stiff but easily bendable wire you probably have on hand and create a
spring-like framework to fit inside the bag ductwork to hold it fully open.
For a long-term install, I'd find some real ductwork--- or manufacture it
myself using 3 or 6 mil poly and a light wire interior framework. You could
plastic weld the poly, or glue it, or tape it closed at its seam.
Hope those ideas inspire a solution.
Steve Upstill
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russell
Chasomatic
The fan I use is"
Silverstone Air Penetrator AP181 180 x 180 x 32mm Fan - (SST-AP181)
I believe it's in the 120 to 140 cfm section of the website.
>
> read more »
Chasomatic
missed the idea of using the hexayurt for the last side. Luckily I
haven't cut the panel yet so I can still use the idea and make a
bigger cooler-cooler. Last year with this type of SC my hexayurt
(standard 8') went down to the low 70's. I'm hoping the cooler will do
a little better seeing as it is sooo small. What do you think? Did you
measure the temp?
Charlie
On Jul 28, 10:35 am, Mark S <sambro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> HeyChasomatic
> was most definitely worth it.
>
> If I recall, we took a 4'x6' panel (result of a cutting mishap - our
> first yurt), and cut it into 4 pieces:
> 4'x2'
> 4'x2'
> 2'x2'
> 2'x2'
> _______
> |______|
> |______|
> |___|___|
>
> With the remains of the fourth tape roll, we boxed in an area against
> the shadier side of the yurt, and put a lengthwise hinge 2/3 back
> along the top panel. Took all of 20 minutes, and our chests were
> puffed out for days. :D
>
> In went the coolers for the duration of the burn.
>
> It went a long way to extending the life of our precious ice. The temp
> in there was noticeable cooler, as long as we resisted going in/out of
> it too often. Once the box was opened, the inside temp very quickly
> equalized with the ambient temp. Still, it kept the sun off in the
> If you've got a scrap panel to spare, I highly recommend it.
>
> -Mark
>
>
> read more »
ups...@gmail.com
T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network
----- Reply message -----
From: "Chasomatic" <chas...@gmail.com>
To: "hexayurt" <hexa...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Mon, Aug 1, 2011 12:01 pm
Steve,
The fan I use is"
Silverstone Air Penetrator AP181 180 x 180 x 32mm Fan - (SST-AP181)
I believe it's in the 120 to 140 cfm section of the website.
On Jul 28, 12:09 pm, Steve Upstill <upst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chasomatic,
>
> I'm looking at the Frozen CPU site and they have a buttload of 12V fans. Any clues for getting closer to what you're talking about?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
> --
> There is a problem when the turnover in the United States House of Representatives is lower than it was in the Soviet Politburo.
> -- NATHANIEL PERSILY, election law expert at the University of Pennsylvania Law School
>
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM,Chasomaticwrote:
>
ken winston caine
Harbor Freight. Do you by any chance have a lot number (I think that's what
HF calls their item numbers)?
Best,
ken winston caine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chasomatic" <chas...@gmail.com>
To: "hexayurt" <hexa...@googlegroups.com>
Charlie
> read more �
--
andreas
I'd also suggest looking at this pump if you have a power source.
Cheaper, more robust, better water flow, and not much more power.
(doesn't have its own panel, though... )
http://www.siliconsolar.com/replacement-12v-solar-pump-p-103.html
That's what a lot of people in the swamp cooler build thread on eplaya
are using. (including myself)
I tried the HF one, and returned it.
-andreas
On Aug 1, 4:23 pm, "ken winston caine"
> Chaosmatic -- I'm not able to find your solar-powered fountain cooler at
> Harbor Freight. Do you by any chance have a lot number (I think that's what
> HF calls their item numbers)?
>
> Best,
> From: "Chasomatic" <chasma...@gmail.com>
ken winston caine
best,
ken
Steve Upstill
Alternatives?
Cheers,
Steve
--
Dare to suck.
On Jul 29, 2011, at 6:08 PM, David Kelso wrote:
David Kelso
found an aspen pad, but I'm worried about moop.
I think I'm about to do the same and just order from Amazon.
Steve Upstill
--
Nobody can be quite as stupid as a really smart person. Why?
Because smart people can talk themselves into anything.
andreas
I'm on the road or i'd google them for you. Bu, they were much
cheaper than amazon and shipped pretty quick.
On Aug 12, 1:33 pm, Steve Upstill <upst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is anybody else out there getting thwarted by the unavailability of Duracool pads? Home Depot is totally out as far as I can tell (not just stores, but nationally). I just paid Amazon $20 for purchase and shipping of mine.
>
> Alternatives?
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
> --
> Dare to suck.
>
> On Jul 29, 2011, at 6:08 PM, David Kelso wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks for all the feedback guys!
>
> > I've decided to convert my two bucket system in to the one bucket
> > system (thanks for the link Andreas). I bought that low wattage pump
> > too (thanks Richard). And I went with the endless breeze fan (thanks
> > Ken).
>
> > Last thing to find is a way to get the air into the yurt. I'm hoping
> > I'll find a 12" flexible duct somewhere and be able to skip any size
> > conversions and just slip it directly over the fan and 5 gal bucket.
>
> > david
>
>
> read more »
Steve Upstill
--
"You have to have at least one square meal a day to be a conservationist."
-- Richard Leakey
Steve Upstill
Thanks,
Steve
--
There is a problem when the turnover in the United States House of Representatives is lower than it was in the Soviet Politburo.
-- NATHANIEL PERSILY, election law expert at the University of Pennsylvania Law School
On Jul 17, 2011, at 8:14 PM, hooperstack wrote:
> I built and used a swamp cooler for my Hexayurt in 09' that worked
> great to keep the yurt cool. I roughly used the design found here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/texasdesertlife/sets/72157605888462649/
> using a float switch to fill an upper reservoir thereby keeping the
> pump operation to a minimum, as I was running off a solar setup. If
> you're on a limited power budget, this system is a good way to go.
> Here's a picture of it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/texasdesertlife/sets/72157605888462649/
ken winston caine
Cassidy
Todd Reed
I'm hitting a wall around getting evap cooler media. The area I live in doesn't generally use evap coolers, so the local hardware outlets do not carry stuff for evap coolers. I'm starting to hit the time fence for getting stuff via mail. Just wondering what alternatives I might have for getting media, either using something sure to be at a local H Depot or online.
Todd
Joshua Keroes
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ken winston caine
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