[Haskell-cafe] Learn you

[Kazu Yamamoto]

Hello cafe,

Translating "Learn You a Haskell for Great Good" into Japanese was
finished and will be published on 22 May. I guess it's worth watching
its cover page:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%81%99%E3%81%94%E3%81%84Haskell%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AE%E3%81%97%E3%81%8F%E5%AD%A6%E3%81%BC%E3%81%86-Miran-Lipova%C4%8Da/dp/4274068854

There are two translators: Tanaka is the author of "peggy" and Muranushi is
the author of "Monadius".

Regards,

--Kazu

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[Brent Yorgey]

I am curious how the title was translated. Of course, the English
title "Learn You a Haskell for Great Good" uses intentionally
ungrammatical/unidiomatic English for humorous effect. Is the
Japanese title also ungrammatical/unidiomatic Japanese? Or do
Japanese speakers not find that humorous?

-Brent

[Colin Adams]

I don't find it (the English title) humorous. I just assumed it was written by a non-native English speaker.

[Brandon Allbery]

On 2 May 2012 18:18, Brent Yorgey <byo...@seas.upenn.edu> wrote:

I am curious how the title was translated.  Of course, the English
title "Learn You a Haskell for Great Good" uses intentionally
ungrammatical/unidiomatic English for humorous effect.  Is the

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Colin Adams <colinpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't find it (the English title) humorous. I just assumed it was written by a non-native English speaker.

The English title does require a little context for the humor:  it leverages a chain of poor-translation memes going back (at least) to all-your-base.

--
brandon s allbery                                      allb...@gmail.com
wandering unix systems administrator (available)     (412) 475-9364 vm/sms

[Wojciech Jedynak]

(caveat: I'm not a native speaker of Japanese)

I think the Japanese title is in a similar spirit as the original one.
Breaking it down:

Sugoi Haskell tanoshiku manabou!

sugoi - "awesome" (rather colloquial)
tanoshiku - "while having fun"
manabou - "let's learn"

In formal grammar it should be "Sugoi Haskell tanoshiku WO manabou!" -
this WO is a particle identifying the object and this omission is
normal in colloquial, spoken Japanese.

How does the Japanese title sound to native speakers? I'm curious myself :)

Wojciech


2012/5/2 Brent Yorgey <byo...@seas.upenn.edu>:

[Felipe Almeida Lessa]

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Wojciech Jedynak <wjed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In formal grammar it should be "Sugoi Haskell tanoshiku WO manabou!" -
> this WO is a particle identifying the object and this omission is
> normal in colloquial, spoken Japanese.

My basic Japanase is very rusty, but shouldn't that be "sugoi Haskell
wo tanoshiku manabou"? Not trying to find errors, just trying to
learn something myself =).

Cheers,

--
Felipe.

[Bardur Arantsson]

On 05/02/2012 07:37 PM, Brandon Allbery wrote:
> On 2 May 2012 18:18, Brent Yorgey<byo...@seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
>> I am curious how the title was translated. Of course, the English
>> title "Learn You a Haskell for Great Good" uses intentionally
>> ungrammatical/unidiomatic English for humorous effect. Is the
>>
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Colin Adams<colinpa...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I don't find it (the English title) humorous. I just assumed it was
>> written by a non-native English speaker.
>>
>
> The English title does require a little context for the humor: it
> leverages a chain of poor-translation memes going back (at least) to
> all-your-base.
>

I always thought it was a nod to

Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious
Nation of Kazakhstan

Regards,

[Brandon Allbery]

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Bardur Arantsson <sp...@scientician.net> wrote:

On 05/02/2012 07:37 PM, Brandon Allbery wrote:

The English title does require a little context for the humor:  it
leverages a chain of poor-translation memes going back (at least) to
all-your-base.

I always thought it was a nod to

  Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan

They're both doing the same thing, AYB came a bit earlier than Borat though. 

[Wojciech Jedynak]

2012/5/2 Felipe Almeida Lessa <felipe...@gmail.com>:

> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Wojciech Jedynak <wjed...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In formal grammar it should be "Sugoi Haskell tanoshiku WO manabou!" -
>> this WO is a particle identifying the object and this omission is
>> normal in colloquial, spoken Japanese.
>
> My basic Japanase is very rusty, but shouldn't that be "sugoi Haskell
> wo tanoshiku manabou"?  Not trying to find errors, just trying to
> learn something myself =).

You're right, of course :-)

Wojciech

[Richard O'Keefe]

On 3/05/2012, at 5:18 AM, Brent Yorgey wrote:

> I am curious how the title was translated. Of course, the English
> title "Learn You a Haskell for Great Good" uses intentionally
> ungrammatical/unidiomatic English for humorous effect. Is the
> Japanese title also ungrammatical/unidiomatic Japanese? Or do
> Japanese speakers not find that humorous?

This native speaker of English doesn't find the effect
of the English title funny, despite finding practically
everything in the world, up to and including a bout of
kidney stones, funny. Humour styles really don't travel
all that well. The Little Lisper (and the other books
like The Little Schemer and The Seasoned Schemer) are
presumably meant to be funny, but to me come across as
offensively patronising (you are such a drooling idiot
that if we didn't have this heavy laugh track you'd go
to sleep or something). Such a pity, because they are
such great books if you can refrain from throwing them
out the window every few minutes.

Now if the Japanese title were *perfect* Japanese,
that *would* be funny, because it would be a case
of a good translation being a bad translation.

I did say that humour doesn't travel well...

[Ptival]

For the French translation, I dropped the humor altogether. It just doesn't feel right to translate a reference to a meme. Plus the English phrasing is quite impossible to express... it would have been really dumb had I tried to stick to it.

So I opted for a close translation, but sadly, grammatically correct.

As a completely different subject, has this publishing been allowed by the original author?

AFAIK, the book is under CC BY-NC-SA, and the sell price displayed on Amazon seems high for a "factory price".

Best,

- Valentin

[Kazu Yamamoto]

Hello,

> I think the Japanese title is in a similar spirit as the original one.
> Breaking it down:
>
> Sugoi Haskell tanoshiku manabou!
>
> sugoi - "awesome" (rather colloquial)
> tanoshiku - "while having fun"
> manabou - "let's learn"

Yes, exactly.

"Sugoi" is a frank word which we cannot use in thesis.

> In formal grammar it should be "Sugoi Haskell tanoshiku WO manabou!" -
> this WO is a particle identifying the object and this omission is
> normal in colloquial, spoken Japanese.

"Sugoi Haskell tanoshiku manabou!" is perfect Japanese. If we want to
add "WO", it should be "Sugoi Haskell WO tanoshiku manabou!". This
is good Japanese for writing but I think many Japanese including me
speak without "WO".

> How does the Japanese title sound to native speakers? I'm curious myself :)

It sounds cute as if a little boy or girl is speaking. If we add "WO",
it breaks the good rhythm.

The translators and me knew the original title is not proper English.
So, we decided to translate it freely while maintaining its tone.

P.S.

The translated book is No 1 sale in technical books on Amazon in Japan
in this week. :-)

[wren ng thornton]

On 5/3/12 1:26 AM, Richard O'Keefe wrote:
> The Little Lisper (and the other books
> like The Little Schemer and The Seasoned Schemer) are
> presumably meant to be funny, but to me come across as
> offensively patronising

Tis a pity. I know the authors and they certainly didn't mean it to be
patronizing. I wouldn't say funny was the goal either, just cute perhaps.

> Now if the Japanese title were *perfect* Japanese,
> that *would* be funny, because it would be a case
> of a good translation being a bad translation.

Looks like perfect Japanese to me :)

--
Live well,
~wren

[Valentin ROBERT]

Dear Kazu,

Could you please answer my concerns about the license under which LYAH
is distributed? (see my initial reply to the thread)
Additionally, under what license is your translation work re-distributed?

Sorry if this has been addressed already.

Best regards,
- Valentin

[Kazu Yamamoto]

Hello,

> Could you please answer my concerns about the license under which LYAH
> is distributed? (see my initial reply to the thread)
> Additionally, under what license is your translation work re-distributed?

What I know is:

- The Japanese publisher bought the translation license from the
publisher of the original.
- The original author knows this.
- Translation is based on the original published book, not on the
online version. They are different because editors modified much.
- I don't think the Japanese publisher open the translated book
on line.

P.S.

I'm not a translater of this book. I'm the translator of "Programming
in Haskell". :-)

[Tom Murphy]

On May 3, 2012 8:40 PM, "wren ng thornton" <wr...@freegeek.org> wrote:
>
> On 5/3/12 1:26 AM, Richard O'Keefe wrote:
>>
>> The Little Lisper (and the other books
>> like The Little Schemer and The Seasoned Schemer) are
>> presumably meant to be funny, but to me come across as
>> offensively patronising
>
>
> Tis a pity. I know the authors and they certainly didn't mean it to be patronizing. I wouldn't say funny was the goal either, just cute perhaps.

FWIW, I loved the tone of those books, and I think it helps many people learn the material. It's nice to have a little reminder every once in a while: "good job! Now go take a break; make some cookies - here's a recipe"

Tom

[Albert Y. C. Lai]

On 12-05-06 01:58 AM, Tom Murphy wrote:
> FWIW, I loved the tone of those books, and I think it helps many people
> learn the material. It's nice to have a little reminder every once in a
> while: "good job! Now go take a break; make some cookies - here's a recipe"

Learn_You_a_Baking_for_Great . Learn_You_a Haskell_for_Great $ Good

[Anton Kholomiov]

Well Russian translation title goes:
Learn Haskell in the name of the Kindness

Anton