Official Support

[Jim Warren]

OK, here is a project that I think will be interesting, and should really see if there is support for George’s views and his accusations against the developer.

 

As we have a number of “elected officials” who participate in this board, and who represent our area how many of you “elected officials” will stand up and support George and his accusations, against Starwood and the Harmony Development Corporation?

 

If George is correct, and they are “the evil Corporation” of Real Estate Business in East Central Florida, then let’s hear that support from the “elected officials”, and their thoughts on how bad Starwood are and why George is right.

 

Or, on the other hand, why he is wrong?

 

As elected officials silence is not an option……..We know you are there…….Silence could also be construed that they sit on the fence.

 

But to me that would be seen as siding with the big Corporation.

 

So if George and his grievance(s) is/are really true and he has a solid case, let’s hear some backing for him……

 

Jim

PS Only elected officials need respond to this thread.

 

Moderator please block any responses from Non-elected officials.

 

 

[spberube]

As an elected official, here is your first response Jim...

I do not support George's views....most of them anyway....and I can't think of anything we agree on right now though I'm sure there must be SOMETHING...

Steve

[Jim Warren(Home)]

I will also allow “People running for office as an elected official too” to comment….

 

Jim

 

From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Warren
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:57 PM
To: harm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Official Support

 

OK, here is a project that I think will be interesting, and should really see if there is support for George’s views and his accusations against the developer.

[Fred Hawkins Jr.]

My response will be short, direct and will only be this one time statement.  I DO NOT support George's accusations.  

Take care and God Bless

Fred Hawkins, Jr.

Osceola County Commissioner

District 5

(407) 709-1078

Sent from my iPad

---

Please Note: Florida has a very broad Public Records Law. E-mails to this entity or its employees may be considered a public record. Your e-mail communication, including your email address may be disclosed to the public and media at any time.

[wallsr]

I do not subscribe to the views regarding Harmony that George has published
in this forum.

Ray Walls

Jim Warren writes:

> OK, here is a project that I think will be interesting, and should really
> see if there is support for George's views and his accusations against the
> developer.
>
>
>
> As we have a number of "elected officials" who participate in this board,
> and who represent our area how many of you "elected officials" will stand up
> and support George and his accusations, against Starwood and the Harmony
> Development Corporation?
>
>
>
> If George is correct, and they are "the evil Corporation" of Real Estate
> Business in East Central Florida, then let's hear that support from the
> "elected officials", and their thoughts on how bad Starwood are and why
> George is right.
>
>
>
> Or, on the other hand, why he is wrong?
>
>
>

> As elected officials silence is not an option....We know you are
> there...Silence could also be construed that they sit on the fence.

>
>
>
> But to me that would be seen as siding with the big Corporation.
>
>
>
> So if George and his grievance(s) is/are really true and he has a solid

> case, let's hear some backing for him..

[spberube]

Well, Geo expects TRANSPARENCY and ACCOUNTABILITY from elected officials...Fred provides a good dose of both below...

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Fred Hawkins Jr."
Sent: Jun 21, 2012 7:17 AM
To: ""
Cc: "harm...@googlegroups.com"
Subject: Re: Official Support

My response will be short, direct and will only be this one time statement.  I DO NOT support George's accusations.  

Take care and God Bless

Fred Hawkins, Jr.

Osceola County Commissioner

District 5

(407) 709-1078

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 20, 2012, at 5:08 PM, "Jim Warren" <jm.w...@btinternet.com> wrote:

OK, here is a project that I think will be interesting, and should really see if there is support for George’s views and his accusations against the developer.

 

As we have a number of “elected officials” who participate in this board, and who represent our area how many of you “elected officials” will stand up and support George and his accusations, against Starwood and the Harmony Development Corporation?

 

If George is correct, and they are “the evil Corporation” of Real Estate Business in East Central Florida, then let’s hear that support from the “elected officials”, and their thoughts on how bad Starwood are and why George is right.

 

Or, on the other hand, why he is wrong?

 

As elected officials silence is not an option……..We know you are there…….Silence could also be construed that they sit on the fence.

 

But to me that would be seen as siding with the big Corporation.

 

So if George and his grievance(s) is/are really true and he has a solid case, let’s hear some backing for him……

 

Jim

PS Only elected officials need respond to this thread.

 

Moderator please block any responses from Non-elected officials.

 

 

[spberube]

How many other "elected officials" participate in this forum??

-----Original Message-----
>From: wallsr <wal...@dbiz.cc>
>Sent: Jun 21, 2012 1:18 PM
>To: harm...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: Official Support
>

>I do not subscribe to the views regarding Harmony that George has published
>in this forum.
>
>Ray Walls
>
>Jim Warren writes:
>

>> OK, here is a project that I think will be interesting, and should really
>> see if there is support for George's views and his accusations against the
>> developer.
>>
>>
>>
>> As we have a number of "elected officials" who participate in this board,
>> and who represent our area how many of you "elected officials" will stand up
>> and support George and his accusations, against Starwood and the Harmony
>> Development Corporation?
>>
>>
>>
>> If George is correct, and they are "the evil Corporation" of Real Estate
>> Business in East Central Florida, then let's hear that support from the
>> "elected officials", and their thoughts on how bad Starwood are and why
>> George is right.
>>
>>
>>
>> Or, on the other hand, why he is wrong?
>>
>>
>>

>> As elected officials silence is not an option....We know you are

>> there...Silence could also be construed that they sit on the fence.

>>
>>
>>
>> But to me that would be seen as siding with the big Corporation.
>>
>>
>>
>> So if George and his grievance(s) is/are really true and he has a solid

>> case, let's hear some backing for him..

[Geo]

Steve wrote:

 

    Well, Geo expects TRANSPARENCY and ACCOUNTABILITY from
    elected officials...Fred provides a good dose of both
    below...

 

That's very interesting Steve. As an elected public official, is that what you really consider to be the essence of public transparency and accountability? Really?

 

Fred wrote:

 

    My response will be short, direct and will only be this
    one time statement.  I DO NOT support George's
    accusations.

 

 

Keep in mind what Jim started this with.

 

Jim wrote:

 

    As elected officials silence is not an option....We

    know you are there...Silence could also be construed

    that they sit on the fence.

 

    But to me that would be seen as siding with the big
    Corporation.

 

Thus Jim set the ground rules. Either these public officials side with the "big corporation" or they don't. Clearly Fred has declared his side loud and clear. But I suspect that he doesn't fully appreciate the implications of that declaration.

 

But how exactly is Commissioner Hawkins being transparent Steve? How exactly is he being held accountable?

 

Fred referred to "George's accusations". What "accusations" exactly does Fred not agree with? What investigation has he done to confirm or refute the "accusations"?

 

Rather than transparency and accountability, Fred's "one time statement" looks more like a hit and run to me.

[Jim Warren(Home)]

At least 2 more I can recall, but have failed to respond. One of which is a constant poster

-----Original Message-----
From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spberube

[Jim Warren(Home)]

George,

 

Steve was only stating that Fred’s response was open and honest. No more no less. For which I applaud. Probably why Fred is amongst one of the most likeable commissioners.

He stated he did not concur with your accusations.

He did not state that the Development company was 100% white and did everything perfect. But that’s how YOU read it.

He just did not agree with you and your accusations of the company. That’s all I asked.

 

Why do you read the bad in any post except your own???

Why is it good or bad with you? Have you ever thought that someone may not agree with you or the company but have their own view?

 

Why is being honest in a response a bad thing?

I find it interesting that Jay has not responded, seeing as he seems to be very vocal on every other subject…..

 

Jim

[Geo]

Jim wrote:

Why do you read the bad in any post except your own???

What bad?

Jim wrote:

Why is it good or bad with you? Have you ever thought
that someone may not agree with you or the company but
have their own view?

Again, what good or bad exactly? The term "their own view" is an interesting
choice of words. I think that term needs to be fleshed out.

Jim wrote:

Why is being honest in a response a bad thing?

Honesty is good. But that includes all of the truth, not just part of it
Jim.

Jim wrote:

I find it interesting that Jay has not responded

Jay has made it abundantly clear that he is not at all interested in the
non-school related nonsense spouted by several people here.

[Jim Warren]

Jim wrote:

Why do you read the bad in any post except your own???

George wrote

What bad?

My point exactly.....

George wrote:

Again, what good or bad exactly? The term "their own view" is an interesting
choice of words. I think that term needs to be fleshed out.

The fact that is someone does not agree with you, then you label them as
wrong, regardless of whether the general consensus confirms the response.

George wrote:

Honesty is good. But that includes all of the truth, not just part of it
Jim.

Indeed George it does.

George wrote:

Jay has made it abundantly clear that he is not at all interested in the
non-school related nonsense spouted by several people here.

That does not mean he cannot have an opinion as a neutral. This forum is a
harmony forum not just a forum for Jay to spout his disgust at the Osceola
school board.
He seems to have plenty of opinions of others. I would have liked to seen
his opinion of Harmony and the developer.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Geo

[spberube]

Let me see if I can predict the future: Fred will very soon get dragged through the mud in this forum. Simply because he gave his honest opinion.

[Geo]

We have a prognosticating genius among us. Hallelujah!

Actually, I think you have it backward Steve. What you previously described
of Fred Hawkins as being "transparent and accountable" was way off the mark.
Fred was merely taking sides (without actually reviewing the facts
apparently) and then running away (ie. "will only be this one time
statement").

What Steve describes now as "dragged through the mud" for giving "his honest
opinion" will actually be what average readers will understand instead to be
an elected public official being held accountable for whatever he says or
does in his position as a county commissioner.

What's really funny Steve is how inconsistent you can be.

Now you are doing whatever you can to stave off any impending questioning of
Commissioner Hawkins about his public support for your "big corporation"
buddy. Yet where were you when I was holding Fred's feet to the fire (no pun
intended) during the impeding fire station closure (see "Saving Harmony's
Fire Station", http://tinyurl.com/7z54hya ):

I'm afraid that it may become known as Fred's closed
fire station, especially since you were one of the most
vocal supporters of the station when it opened

Hopefully you helped Fred wipe himself clean when he got a little muddy on
that one Steve. Yet no one heard anything from you in Fred's defense then.
Go figure!

I guess we just have to wonder who you are really trying to help here Steve.

-----Original Message-----
From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com]On

Behalf Of spberube
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:34 PM
To: harm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Official Support

[Jim Warren(Home)]

George, again you make assumptions that Fred has not been following the threads and reading through them, which would give him as much knowledge as anyone. As you state so clearly that you post all the facts and have a better historical record than anyone, Fred is in as good a position as anyone to make and state his case.

So why wouldn't Fred know what the status was, and have made a honest and calculated post that he didn't agree with your accusations?

Talking about the Fire Station, was it not you who cried "fire" about the closure? I think Fred was 100% against the closure and threw his weight behind it. The result being that the so called threat of closure diminished.

-----Original Message-----
From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Geo
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 6:26 PM
To: gg
Subject: RE: Official Support

[Geo]

I think you are right Jim. I was being charitable. Fred most likely did make
a calculated post.

The problem is that the facts are not on Fred's side (or yours). But that
can be proven later, if you or Fred or Steve are willing to engage in a
good-faith dialog about the "accusations". So far I have yet to witness such
a dialog from you folks (except from Fred), but we'll see.

Regarding the fire station, if you or anyone else actually read all the
related threads in their entirety you will see that the issue stalled for
some time and seemed to go nowhere until finally it did.

[Geo]

Jim Warren (see "Agents of Starwood" http://tinyurl.com/79ff2a8 ) started
this topic on June 20 with this:

As we have a number of "elected officials" who
participate in this board, and who represent our area
how many of you "elected officials" will stand up and
support George and his accusations, against Starwood
and the Harmony Development Corporation?

...

So if George and his grievance(s) is/are really true
and he has a solid case, let's hear some backing for

him.

After Jim's call to action, Fred Hawkins quickly responded the next day with
this:

I DO NOT support George's accusations.

The following day I wrote this:

Fred referred to "George's accusations". What
"accusations" exactly does Fred not agree with? What
investigation has he done to confirm or refute the
"accusations"?

A week or so after no explanations from Fred, I wrote this (see
"Transparency, Accountability and Fred Hawkins",
http://tinyurl.com/977dxqb ):

So in this context "no comment" would have sufficed
Steve, contrary to what you have written. But anything
more than a "no comment" (which is what Fred offered)
requires a full explanation, which Fred now refuses to
provide. Fred's position is untenable, IMHO.

Since Fred refused to provide any public explanation for his public
statement, I called his offices and asked for a meeting to include myself,
Fred and my two sons who personally witnessed the events referred to in
"George's accusations". My sons related to Fred, face-to-face, their
confirmation that what they personally witnessed contradicts statements made
in the developer threat letter (see "The Empire Strikes Back",
http://tinyurl.com/dx4pl4b ).

During the meeting Commissioner Fred Hawkins acknowledged the following
(among other things):

1) When Commissioner Hawkins stated "I DO NOT support
George's accusations." he was referring to the
accusations made against the developer in 2006 (see
"Harmony Development Statements That Constitute Broken
Promises", http://tinyurl.com/cd99sld ).

2) When Commissioner Hawkins stated "I DO NOT support
George's accusations." he was NOT referring to the
recent accusation of developer Wikipedia vandalism (see
"Developer Dirty Tricks - CONFIRMED",
http://tinyurl.com/ck62oly ).

3) When Commissioner Hawkins stated "I DO NOT support
George's accusations." he was NOT referring to the
recent accusation of extensive developer lying in their
threat letter (ie. "Trespass Warning" letter, again see
"The Empire Strikes Back", http://tinyurl.com/dx4pl4b ).

4) In other words, it was not Fred's intention to
suggest that he does not support my accusation that
Shad Tome vandalized Wikipedia and it was also not
Fred's intention to suggest that he does not support
my claim that the developer threat letter / trespass
warning letter is full of lies.

5) Commissioner Fred Hawkins also stated plainly that
he does not believe that the claims made about me in
the developer threat letter / trespass warning are true.

[Geo]

Fred, it's been more than two weeks since I posted some of what we discussed
at the recent meeting between yourself, me, two of your campaign workers and
two of my sons, Robin and Rolan (see "Robin Schiro Character References",
http://tinyurl.com/6tmc5aq and "Rolan Schiro Character References",
http://tinyurl.com/6rd7n3v ).

Remember, Robin and Rolan were in attendance at the meeting because they
were first-person eyewitnesses to events referenced in the developer's

threat letter (see "The Empire Strikes Back", http://tinyurl.com/dx4pl4b ).

It should have gone without saying that I expected a public acknowledgment
by you of the few bullet points I posted from that meeting. Sadly, you have
not yet seen fit to do that.

Keep in mind that this topic was started by Jim Warren with this
admonishment:

As elected officials silence is not an option....We
know you are there...Silence could also be construed
that they sit on the fence.

But to me that would be seen as siding with the big
Corporation.

Once again, here is what I wrote about our meeting Fred:

Are the above statements true or false Fred?

-----Original Message-----
From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com]On
Behalf Of Geo
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:21 PM
To: gg
Subject: RE: Official Support

[Geo]

Please note that Fred Hawkins responded in a matter of hours in support of
lies by the multi-billion dollar real-estate company (Starwood / Harmony
Development Company, second only to Disney in contributions to Fred's
political campaign) fostered by Jim Warren (see "Agents of Starwood"
http://tinyurl.com/79ff2a8 ). Yet Fred now refuses to acknowledge the real
facts of the matter (or deny them) in public more than a month after doing
so in private.

Sadly, Fred Hawkins apparently lacks the courage to say in public what he
says to people in private. This shows a serious deficit of moral character,
IMHO.

Fred Hawkins acknowledged privately before several witnesses that he does
not agree with Starwood / Harmony Development Company's lies, even though he
stated the opposite in this public forum almost 3 months ago. Yet he now
refuses to offer a retraction of his original false statement.

This is reminiscent of how Commissioner Hawkins refused to witness the truth
and come forward about former Osceola School Board Chair, Cindy Hartig,
although doing so might have benefited the 50,000+ public school children in
Osceola County (see "What kind of people?", http://tinyurl.com/bt5ofys or
http://www.webcitation.org/6AendHTnU or http://tinyurl.com/92bo57v ). Fred
seems to have a hard time doing the right thing in public unless it is
politically expedient for him to do so.

Shame on you Fred.

[Geo]

Here are emails regarding the detailed summary of the meeting I had on
August 1, 2012 with Osceola County Commissioner Fred Hawkins (in reverse
chronology; the actual meeting summary starts with "Thank you for meeting
yesterday with me and my sons"):


From: George Schiro
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 8:25 PM
To: Rolan Schiro
Cc: Robin Schiro; Fred Hawkins Jr.; BettyDamke
Subject: RE: 08/01/2012 Meeting Summary


Fred & Betty, I will proceed with the understanding
that the meeting summary is 100% accurate.

Thank you again.


From: Rolan Schiro
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 1:44 PM
To: George Schiro
Cc: Robin Schiro; Fred Hawkins Jr.; BettyDamke
Subject: Re: 08/01/2012 Meeting Summary


From what I have read, this seems entirely accurate.


-Rolan Schiro


On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 9:10 AM, George Schiro
<9992200...@schiro.name> wrote:

I just remembered that I left out something.

We learned that Betty and Jason either currently work
for Fred's political campaign or they worked on
campaigns for Fred in the past.


From: Robin Schiro
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 11:58 PM
To: George Schiro
Cc: Fred Hawkins Jr.; BettyDamke; Rolan...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: 08/01/2012 Meeting Summary


Based on my recollection, this summary is accurate.


Sincerely,
Robin Schiro


On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:15 PM, George Schiro
<9992200...@schiro.name> wrote:

Fred,

Thank you for meeting yesterday with me and my sons,
Robin and Rolan. I will now summarize what we
discussed.

There were 6 of us in attendance:

Betty Damke
Fred Hawkins
George Schiro
Jason (last name withheld)
Robin Schiro
Rolan Schiro

First, I handed out materials printed from the
HarmonyFL newsgroup as well as a copy of the developer
threat letter (ie. the "trespass warning") already
discussed online. The bulk of the paperwork included
character references about Robin and Rolan. These
references support in great detail their personal
credibility as witnesses.

Although the meeting was first discussed two weeks ago,
I remarked that Fred only notified me late Tuesday
night (11:27pm) that he would be bringing other folks
to our meeting (Jason and Betty), a meeting that was
originally scheduled for just Fred, myself and my 2
sons. After Fred acknowledged that Jason and Betty were
there basically as witnesses (ie. "to protect me
[Fred]"), I asked Fred if he would object to my audio
recording the meeting. Fred adamantly refused to have
the meeting recorded. He seemed offended by the
suggestion.

The primary purpose of the meeting was to introduce
Robin and Rolan to Commissioner Hawkins and have them
confirm face-to-face that they where eye-witnesses to
events referenced in the Starwood / Harmony Development
threat letter. They did indeed confirm that Starwood /
Harmony Development lied in that letter.

We also discussed how my issues with the developer
might be diffused. Betty Damke suggested that perhaps
we should just consider moving. She also implied that
since Starwood / Harmony Development, a large
corporation, took the time and the effort to compose
their letter against me, there must be some truth to
it.

Fred relayed that Shad Tome told him that he (Shad) was
against sending me the Starwood / Harmony Development
threat letter / trespass warning. In other words, the
threat letter was instigated by someone else, not Shad
Tome.

Fred said that the accusations he referred to in his
post to the HarmonyFL newsgroup (ie. "I DO NOT support
George's accusations.") were about the "developer's
broken promises" post made in 2006, not about the
recent allegations of Wikipedia vandalism by the
developer and the lies contained in the developer
threat letter. In other words, it was not Fred's

intention to suggest that he does not support my
accusation that Shad Tome vandalized Wikipedia and it
was also not Fred's intention to suggest that he does
not support my claim that the developer threat letter /
trespass warning letter is full of lies.

Fred also said that he does not believe that the claims

made about me in the developer threat letter / trespass
warning are true.

The meeting concluded with Fred's offer to act as an
intermediary between myself and Starwood / Harmony
Development Company in whatever efforts are made to
resolve the difficulties between us.

If I am in error in any way with this summary, please
correct me.

Sincerely,

George Schiro

--