Extension for advanced activation features

[Jan Odvarko]

We have started (FWG) working on an extension called FireStarter that
provides enhancements for the Firebug's activation model.
http://getfirebug.com/releases/extensions.html

The motivation is as follows:

- All required/advanced activation features can be implemented into
the extension without bothering other users who like what is there in
Firebug by default.

- Development/release cycle of the extension is shorter (comparing to
Firebug), which allows to get feedback on new features faster.

- We can also use the extension as an incubator for proved features
(according to the real user experience) and backport the most
successful ideas into Firebug core.


Description of the two implemented enhancements is here:
http://blog.getfirebug.com/2009/07/22/firebug-1-5a18/

Honza

[nod]

Excellent! This is great news.

From a bit of exploring the first 2 features:
"fs.firebug.menu.Log Activation URIs" doesn't seem to do anything
(nothing ever seen in console regardless of activation status)
"fs.Firebug.menu.On By Default" makes me wonder if the lowercase
"firebug" above is a typo.

Will we be seeing an option for what I will attempt to describe as:
"auto-start and run Firebug minimized for whitelist URLs"?
(Here I'm attempting to name/summarize the problem that so many people
are writing about regarding wanting Firebug to "just STAY on darnit"
for their whitelist so they never have to think about activation
again, just as they didn't have to in <=1.3. Also known as
"conflation of visibility and activation" and "have to reload page &
reproduce to catch logging" and a few other descriptions.)

Again, thank you thank you for responding with this action and working
group. (I won't even mention the "you used to be able to have
multiple Firebug external windows open at once" issue as it's so
secondary to getting to a place where I never have to think about
activation and whitelists and can just get stuff done!)

Thanks,
James

On Jul 28, 9:07 am, Jan Odvarko <odva...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We have started (FWG) working on an extension called FireStarter that

> provides enhancements for the Firebug's activation model.http://getfirebug.com/releases/extensions.html

[sir_brizz]

Good enhancements there.

In regards to the onByDefault functionality, how does this currently
work? Will it allow me to disable Firebug for http://mail.google.com
and http://www.google.com/finance and leave it enabled for the rest of
google.com?

On Jul 28, 10:07 am, Jan Odvarko <odva...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We have started (FWG) working on an extension called FireStarter that

> provides enhancements for the Firebug's activation model.http://getfirebug.com/releases/extensions.html

[johnjbarton]

On Jul 28, 12:05 pm, sir_brizz <bj.car...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good enhancements there.
>
> In regards to the onByDefault functionality, how does this currently
> work? Will it allow me to disable Firebug forhttp://mail.google.com

> andhttp://www.google.com/financeand leave it enabled for the rest of
> google.com?

onByDefault just causes every page that is not on the blacklist to be
active. If you have Activate Same Origin OFF, then deactivate
mail.google.com and www.google.com/finance, then other google.com
pages should be active.

jjb

[Jan Odvarko]

> From a bit of exploring the first 2 features:

> "fs.firebug.menu.Log Activation URIs" doesn't seem to do anything

> (nothing ever seen in console regardless of activation status)

Do you use Firebug 1.5a20?

I am attaching a screenshot how it should look like.

 

> "fs.Firebug.menu.On By Default" makes me wonder if the lowercase

> "firebug" above is a typo.

yes, it was a typo, fixed.

http://getfirebug.com/releases/firestarter/1.5/fireStarter-0.1.a2.xpi

 

Please try this new version and let me know if you see the log in the console. If not, it would be nice to know whether there are some error messages in the Firebug Tracing Console (Firebug->Open Firebug Tracing)

 

> Will we be seeing an option for what I will attempt to describe as:

> "auto-start and run Firebug minimized for whitelist URLs"?

> (Here I'm attempting to name/summarize the problem that so many people

> are writing about regarding wanting Firebug to "just STAY on darnit"

> for their whitelist so they never have to think about activation

> again, just as they didn't have to in <=1.3.  Also known as

> "conflation of visibility and activation" and "have to reload page &

> reproduce to catch logging" and a few other descriptions.)

Yes, there have been a lot of requests for this and it's something I would like to have a support for in the extension.

 

 

Honza

 

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: fir...@googlegroups.com [mailto:fir...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf

> Of nod

> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:00 PM

> To: Firebug

> Subject: Re: Extension for advanced activation features

[johnjbarton]

On Jul 28, 10:59 am, nod <james.a.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
...

> Will we be seeing an option for what I will attempt to describe as:
> "auto-start and run Firebug minimized for whitelist URLs"?
> (Here I'm attempting to name/summarize the problem that so many people
> are writing about regarding wanting Firebug to "just STAY on darnit"
> for their whitelist so they never have to think about activation
> again, just as they didn't have to in <=1.3.  Also known as
> "conflation of visibility and activation" and "have to reload page &
> reproduce to catch logging" and a few other descriptions.)

Can you explain what you think "so many people" want? I can't figure
it out.

How is "auto-start and run Firebug minimized for whitelist URLs" any
different from "minimize"? I mean if you minimize, then the page is
whitelisted and firebug is running.

Does anyone have a test case where Firebug 1.4 does not stay on for a
page they have whitelisted?

The only thing I can guess that matches what you describe here is the
following scenario:

1. Open getfirebug.com
2. open firebug (UI is visible),
3. reload. Firebug is debugging the page.
4. New tab, http://groups.google.com/group/firebug
5. Don't open Firebug. Firebug is gray.
6. Switch back to the tab with getfirebug.com. Discover that all
console logging and ajax traffic has been ignored while I read the
newsgroup.

Is that the scenario? Other wise I still don't get what you are
saying.

jjb

[sir_brizz]

I think he means that if you go to another page, then go to the
whitelisted URL, Firebug doesn't remember you had it minimized and
since it is enabled it opens the panel.

On Jul 28, 2:56 pm, johnjbarton <johnjbar...@johnjbarton.com> wrote:
> On Jul 28, 10:59 am, nod <james.a.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> > Will we be seeing an option for what I will attempt to describe as:
> > "auto-start and run Firebug minimized for whitelist URLs"?
> > (Here I'm attempting to name/summarize the problem that so many people
> > are writing about regarding wanting Firebug to "just STAY on darnit"
> > for their whitelist so they never have to think about activation
> > again, just as they didn't have to in <=1.3.  Also known as
> > "conflation of visibility and activation" and "have to reload page &
> > reproduce to catch logging" and a few other descriptions.)
>
> Can you explain what you think "so many people" want? I can't figure
> it out.
>
> How is "auto-start and run Firebug minimized for whitelist URLs" any
> different from "minimize"? I mean if you minimize, then the page is
> whitelisted and firebug is running.
>
> Does anyone have a test case where Firebug 1.4 does not stay on for a
> page they have whitelisted?
>
> The only thing I can guess that matches what you describe here is the
> following scenario:
>
> 1. Open getfirebug.com
> 2. open firebug (UI is visible),
> 3. reload. Firebug is debugging the page.

> 4. New tab,http://groups.google.com/group/firebug

[Winfield]

I don't want to speak for nod, but this is EXACTLY what I am hoping
for with this activation plugin. Hoping to check this out later
tonight.

On Jul 28, 4:56 pm, johnjbarton <johnjbar...@johnjbarton.com> wrote:
> On Jul 28, 10:59 am, nod <james.a.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> > Will we be seeing an option for what I will attempt to describe as:
> > "auto-start and run Firebug minimized for whitelist URLs"?
> > (Here I'm attempting to name/summarize the problem that so many people
> > are writing about regarding wanting Firebug to "just STAY on darnit"
> > for their whitelist so they never have to think about activation
> > again, just as they didn't have to in <=1.3.  Also known as
> > "conflation of visibility and activation" and "have to reload page &
> > reproduce to catch logging" and a few other descriptions.)
>
> Can you explain what you think "so many people" want? I can't figure
> it out.
>
> How is "auto-start and run Firebug minimized for whitelist URLs" any
> different from "minimize"? I mean if you minimize, then the page is
> whitelisted and firebug is running.
>
> Does anyone have a test case where Firebug 1.4 does not stay on for a
> page they have whitelisted?
>
> The only thing I can guess that matches what you describe here is the
> following scenario:
>
> 1. Open getfirebug.com
> 2. open firebug (UI is visible),
> 3. reload. Firebug is debugging the page.

> 4. New tab,http://groups.google.com/group/firebug

[johnjbarton]

On Jul 28, 2:41 pm, sir_brizz <bj.car...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think he means that if you go to another page, then go to the
> whitelisted URL, Firebug doesn't remember you had it minimized and
> since it is enabled it opens the panel.

But there has to be something more to it than this? Are you saying:

1. Open getfirebug.com
2. open firebug (UI is visible),
3. reload. Firebug is debugging the page.

4. Minimize Firebug
5. New tab, http://groups.google.com/group/firebug Don't open firebug.
6. Switch back to the tab from step 4.

Firebug is minimized isn't it?

jjb

[Trevan Richins]

If you modify those steps to:

1. Open getfirebug.com
2. open firebug (UI is visible),
3. reload. Firebug is debugging the page.
4. Minimize Firebug
5. New tab, http://groups.google.com/group/firebug

6. Open firebug
7. Close firebug with the Off button
8. Switch back to the tab from step 4.

Firebug is now opened.

Though I thought this was an already known bug.

-----Original Message-----
From: fir...@googlegroups.com [mailto:fir...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of johnjbarton
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:48 PM
To: Firebug
Subject: Re: Extension for advanced activation features

[johnjbarton]

Well I hate to disappoint you but we don't know how to do the scenario
I outlined. It certainly was not what 1.3 supported because the gray
firebug means exactly that there is no background activity. Otherwise
you can't read your gmail.

Or to say it differently: there is no background/foreground. There is
only Firebug is active or suspended. You can't have Firebug suspended
on one page and active on another. Its not about the UI, its how
Firebug works.

You *can* get firebug to have activity on tabs you are not looking at.
Just open Firebug on all the tabs, so the Firebug icon stays orange.

Is that what all that talk about conflating visibility and activation
was about? That would explain why I found the discussion puzzling.

jjb

[sir_brizz]

No.

It is the fact that Firebug does not know what state it was on when
you left a page, so it assumes that the default state for "On" is also
"Panel open".

Just follow the steps Trevan posted, or follow this similar use case.

1) Clear the activation list.
2) Go to getfirebug.com and enable Firebug by clicking on the bug
(added to whitelist).
3) Minimize Firebug
4) Open a new tab and close the previous tab.
5) Go to www.google.com and notice that the bug is grey (not active)
6) Go to getfirebug.com and notice that Firebug opens the Firebug
panel because Firebug is active on this page. (The expected and
desired functionality is that the panel stays minimized and just
monitors this page until you need it)

Because of the way previous versions of Firebug worked, if Firebug was
minimized *it always stayed minimized*. It didn't care about being
active or inactive, the panel being open was completely separate from
that action, so if Firebug was disabled on google.com and I went to
getfirebug.com where it was enabled in 1.3, Firebug panel would stay
minimized.

This is the "issue" I mentioned to you a week or so ago where I said
that if you turn off firebug (which also "minimizes" the panel), it
should stay minimized until you take an action to open the panel
again, regardless of if the ensuing pages are on the whitelist or not.

[johnjbarton]

On Jul 28, 8:30 pm, sir_brizz <bj.car...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No.
>
> It is the fact that Firebug does not know what state it was on when
> you left a page, so it assumes that the default state for "On" is also
> "Panel open".

Firebug only knows what state (placement) it is in. The placement is
not related to the page or url or tab.

>
> Just follow the steps Trevan posted, or follow this similar use case.
>
> 1) Clear the activation list.
> 2) Go to getfirebug.com and enable Firebug by clicking on the bug
> (added to whitelist).
> 3) Minimize Firebug
> 4) Open a new tab and close the previous tab.

> 5) Go towww.google.comand notice that the bug is grey (not active)

> 6) Go to getfirebug.com and notice that Firebug opens the Firebug
> panel because Firebug is active on this page. (The expected and
> desired functionality is that the panel stays minimized and just
> monitors this page until you need it)

Thank you for taking the time to create the clear list of
instructions.

In final step, 6, I go to getfirebug.com and I notice that the Firebug
icon becomes orange and the tooltip says "minimized". Firebug does
*not* open.

If Firebug had opened, I would consider this to be a bug that has to
be fixed.

Let me know if you want to investigate this issue further. It would
involve installing the tracing version and posting traces to the
issues list.

>
> Because of the way previous versions of Firebug worked, if Firebug was
> minimized *it always stayed minimized*. It didn't care about being
> active or inactive, the panel being open was completely separate from
> that action, so if Firebug was disabled on google.com and I went to
> getfirebug.com where it was enabled in 1.3, Firebug panel would stay
> minimized.

I agree completely. Our only point of difference is that Firebug does
not open for me.

>
> This is the "issue" I mentioned to you a week or so ago where I said
> that if you turn off firebug (which also "minimizes" the panel), it
> should stay minimized until you take an action to open the panel
> again, regardless of if the ensuing pages are on the whitelist or not.

Here I do not agree since turning off Firebug is not the same as
minimizing.

The activation state of a URL is not connected to the Firebug
placement.

Once minimized, Firebug should stay minimized until commanded to open
in the browser, no matter what page you visit or no matter what your
activation list looks like.

jjb

[johnjbarton]

Thanks for the careful and clear instructions.

On Jul 28, 2:53 pm, Trevan Richins <TRich...@omniture.com> wrote:
> If you modify those steps to:
>
> 1. Open getfirebug.com
> 2. open firebug (UI is visible),
> 3. reload. Firebug is debugging the page.
> 4. Minimize Firebug
> 5. New tab,http://groups.google.com/group/firebug
> 6. Open firebug

At this step you opened Firebug, that is you set its placement to in-
browser. From this point forward until you minimize or detach the
placement will be in-browser.

> 7. Close firebug with the Off button

Well you deactivated Firebug for the web page. I can see now why you
think that you also changed the placement.

First there is the UI: it now looks the same as minimized.
Second there is the experience from 1.3, where the same motion results
in minimize.

> 8. Switch back to the tab from step 4.
>
> Firebug is now opened.

Right, using the placement which has not changed since step 6: in-
browser.

>
> Though I thought this was an already known bug.

Not only not a 'bug', but also not known as an issue. That is, no one
wrote down that sequence and explained what they expected.

I don't see a clear simple solution. Causing Off to also Minimize
will but just as confusing to other users I guess.

A clearer UI for minimize, that is very or at least clearly different
from suspended (where you end up after Off) would help.

jjb

[sir_brizz]

I guess it turns out that Trevan's use case is the only one that seems
broken now.

IMO, when Firebug is *not showing* it needs to keep not showing,
regardless of what the previous tab/page state was. The behavior in
1.3 was that Firebug stayed in the same state whether monitoring the
page or not between pages and tabs. It seems nonsensical to have
Firebug act as if the panel is open on the previous tab/page when it
was not open at all.

Considering Trevan's use case, the Firebug panel is minimized, then
shown, then turned off (and thus minimized), then un-minimized for
seemingly no reason. Following this same case, if I went to a page,
opened Firebug to check out some HTML, then clicked Off and then went
back to another page that was whitelisted, Firebug panel would show.
How can you make the Panel stay minimized on all whitelisted pages by
default? That is the question here. If you only want Firebug panel to
open when requested on a page, you can't have that happen given the
use case provided in Trevan's post. Mine seems to have gone away since
1.4b8.

[johnjbarton]

On Jul 28, 9:52 pm, sir_brizz <bj.car...@gmail.com> wrote:
...

> Considering Trevan's use case, the Firebug panel is minimized, then
> shown, then turned off (and thus minimized), then un-minimized for

No this is not happening. Turning off does not minimize. However I
certainly see why you think it does.

> seemingly no reason. Following this same case, if I went to a page,
> opened Firebug to check out some HTML, then clicked Off and then went
> back to another page that was whitelisted, Firebug panel would show.

Well consider the other side of the problem:

1. Open getfirebug.com
2. open firebug (UI is visible),
3. reload. Firebug is debugging the page.

(now we skip Trevan's step #4)

5. New tab, http://groups.google.com/group/firebug
6. Open firebug

7. Close firebug with the Off button

8. Switch back to the tab from step 4.

Now what do you expect? If Off means minimize, then you have to say
"Firebug is minimized". But if your expectations are based on 1.3
which couples the placement and page, then you will say "Open in
Browser".

> How can you make the Panel stay minimized on all whitelisted pages by
> default?

Well just minimize Firebug. But don't open it and then turn it
off ;-).

jjb

[sir_brizz]

On Jul 28, 11:11 pm, johnjbarton <johnjbar...@johnjbarton.com> wrote:
> On Jul 28, 9:52 pm, sir_brizz <bj.car...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> > Considering Trevan's use case, the Firebug panel is minimized, then
> > shown, then turned off (and thus minimized), then un-minimized for
>
> No this is not happening. Turning off does not minimize. However I
> certainly see why you think it does.

Turning off minimizes the *panel*, not all operation of Firebug
(since, I'm assuming, you are meaning minimized as "program on, panel
invisible" where I mean minimized only as "panel invisible").

>
> > seemingly no reason. Following this same case, if I went to a page,
> > opened Firebug to check out some HTML, then clicked Off and then went
> > back to another page that was whitelisted, Firebug panel would show.
>
> Well consider the other side of the problem:
>
> 1. Open getfirebug.com
> 2. open firebug (UI is visible),
> 3. reload. Firebug is debugging the page.
> (now we skip Trevan's step #4)

> 5. New tab,http://groups.google.com/group/firebug

> 6. Open firebug
> 7. Close firebug with the Off button
> 8. Switch back to the tab from step 4.
>
> Now what do you expect? If Off means minimize, then you have to say
> "Firebug is minimized". But if your expectations are based on 1.3
> which couples the placement and page, then you will say "Open in
> Browser".

Well, I would expect the panel state to be saved for that tab :) But I
think having it not showing on the following tab is preferable to
having it pop open when the previous tab set the precedent that the
Firebug *panel* is hidden.

>
> > How can you make the Panel stay minimized on all whitelisted pages by
> > default?
>
> Well just minimize Firebug. But don't open it and then turn it
> off ;-).

That's the thing, you clearly cannot turn off Firebug on a page and
minimize it for other pages at the same time :) This even though the
panel itself hides when the Off button is pressed, which is counter-
intuitive, IMO :)

>
> jjb

[Jan Odvarko]

> Well, I would expect the panel state to be saved for that tab :)

Perhaps we could try to implement this as a new feature in the
FireStarter.
John, what if there would be another annotation "firebug/state" that
remembers the panel UI state for every URL?
Honza

[dm]

I think this should be core behaviour rather that on another addon.

My steps:
1. Open getfirebug.com
2. Turn on firebug (click bug, bottom right) - bug goes orange,
firebug appears.
3. Reload, tweak html/css
4. Minimise firebug - firebug disappears, bug remains orange
5. Go to new tab, load url
6. Open firebug (click bug, bottom right) - bug goes orange, firebug
appears.
7. Reload, tweak
8. Close firebug using OFF button - firebug disappears, bug goes grey.
9. Go back to original tab (getfirebug.com)
Expected: Firebug on but minimised (orange bug bottom right, no
firebug in view)
Actual: Firebug on but visible

The point is that I minimised firebug on getfirebug.com and so I
expect it to remain minimised when I return to it. Is this hard to
implement - I thought you had already added a visible/minimised state
to the annotations, but perhaps I dreamt it? However, at least the
state of firebug should be consistent with how you left it

Thanks for continuing to improve this tool.

d

[johnjbarton]

Yes that would be easy to do. Less easy is to implement the switch
from detached -> in browser. But maybe just minimize followed by
inBrowser will work.
Also there is the root problem we already have: combinatorial
explosion of states for testing and explanation.


jjb