On Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse Strips
Alecto
Australian MM comic that I'd like to index but I can't find the codes. It's a 48
page comic with 4 panels per page, I'm not sure how many stories are in it
(might be just one), the comic starts off with MM building a Mini golf course,
later in the book another mouse called "Mr Slicker" takes up with Minnie so
Mickey starts trying various methods of killing himself.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.
Tony
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Eta Beta
>the discussion about Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse strips is obsolete.
The discussion is not obsolete, the reprint you mention, well
known around here, is !
I know a few sets are still around, at Laqua's for instance, but
the asking price would soon make *me* obsolete for lack of food
if I bought it...
Besides, the quality's not worth the price, even if appreciation
of said printing quality varies wildly among my acquaintances
who own it, from "alright, perfectly acceptable" to plain
"unspeakable".
But this edition has already been discussed by others, the point
of this discussion, to me at least, was to check out what
*Gemstone* could do with Gottfredson's stuff, if they could...
Cheers!
Eta Beta
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Gunnarsson, Joakim SE - HMJ
Cord wrote:
> Yes, but this edition was printed without a licence, I believe. And it
> is far out of the price range of most comics fans.
>
If you are speaking of the German release I believe that it was
issued with a licence.
But I think that there are at least one or two other versions made
without licence.
All I can say is: It's *definitely* worth a thousand dollars for the
set. Get it if you can!
/Joakim.
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Cord Wiljes
>> Yes, but this edition was printed without a licence, I
>> believe. And it is far out of the price range of most
>> comics fans.
Joakim wrote:
> If you are speaking of the German release I believe that it was
> issued with a licence. But I think that there are at least one or two
other
> versions made without licence.
The sets which are available are combined from two different editions:
Some volumes are red and contain single, unbound sheets. They state
"Comic Buch Club Germany. Sammler Ausgabe limitiert auf 500 Examplare"
and have a (c) Disney (whether correct or fake I cannot judge)
The other volumes in the set are yellow and contain bound sheets (but in
the same format). They state "Verein Kultur der Völker Leipzig. Printed
and manufactured in the German Democratic Republic. Printrun (sic!)
limited to not over 300 copies" and also have a (c) Disney (but in this
case at least I can't believe that a communist country in the times of
the Cold War paid the Disney Company to publish Mickey strips).
Cord
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Olivier
Eta:
>>>Besides, the quality's not worth the price, even if appreciation
>>>of said printing quality varies wildly among my acquaintances
>>>who own it, from "alright, perfectly acceptable" to plain
>>>"unspeakable".
Some are darker, but here's nothing I'd qualify as "unspeakable".
I got mine from Laqua in '99; I don't remember the price exactly (what with
the shipping & now the euro), but it was expensive indeed; however, given
Disney's publishing policy I figured this was the closest I might come to a
Gottfredson dailies anthology. I certainly don't regret buying it, and would
gladly buy a nice (compelte) Gottfredson Library from Gemstone.
Joakim:
>>> If you are speaking of the German release I believe that it was
>>> issued with a licence.
>From what I gathered, they did have a licence / agreement at the beginning,
but the Disney Company backed out at some point, and the publisher kept
publishing it nonetheless, for those who had already ordered (plus extra
sets), limiting the run to 300 instead of 500.
Now that we have uncut cartoon shorts on DVD (thanks to Roy Disney I
believe), someone needs to strongly suggests them & convince them (through
Roy, then) to do the same with Gottfredson. Not "just" a few reprints in the
comics, but a complete, annotated Library (with Leonard Maltin-like
introductions: "there are stereotypes, but nothing downright racist; it's
part of our history").
Releasing the strips might also clarify this point: namely, that they were
not banned (in recent years) because they supposedly convey a racist message
and show a dark evil side of the Disney Company, but because the Company
was afraid people might be vexed. I don't see the harm of showing Mickey
fighting the Nazis, either, and some might think they're hiding these strips
because they contain pro-Nazi material.
It's a good thing they don't own the rights to such works as "Gone With the
Wind" (a novel/movie about Southerners who have slaves? burn it! burn it!).
Cord:
>>>So if there is some definite information on the copyright status they
could be copied or even shared for free on
>>>the internet.
>>>On the other hand *I* won't be the one to risk the wrath of Disney's
lawyers...
Why do you think the webmaster(s?) who posted some 1930 strips early this
year didn't leave them on the site?
;)
Alecto:
>>> Are there story codes for these old strips?, I've just obtained a very
early
>>> Australian MM comic that I'd like to index but I can't find the codes.
It's a 48
>>> page comic with 4 panels per page, I'm not sure how many stories are in
it
>>> (might be just one), the comic starts off with MM building a Mini golf
course,
>>> later in the book another mouse called "Mr Slicker" takes up with Minnie
so
>>> Mickey starts trying various methods of killing himself.
I'm not aware of any code; I don't remember seeing any, just the copyright
& date.
"Mickey Mouse in Color" indexes it as:
"Mr Slicker and the Egg Robbers" (Sept 22 - Dec 26, 1930)
Written & penciled by Floyd Gottfredson,
inked by Floyd Gottfredson & Hardie Kramatky (Sept 22 - Nov 15) and Earl
Duvall.
I've copied the list on my site:
http://ob7.free.fr/mice_and_ducks/
(click on Mickey, then choose List).
I hope I have corrected the typos-- a few mix-ups in the dates (inverting
month & day; you spot them easily); all my biggest apologies if there are
any left. I need to proofread it again.
All the best,
Olivier
(about to re-format :( )
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Dreidreizehn Comicart & Disneyana
> Yes, but this edition was printed without a licence, I believe.<
This limited edition was printed with a Disney license about 20 years ago in
Germany. Unfortunately the small printing run of only 300 copies made it
expensive over the years on the secondary market. I don't think that there
will be a better edition coming with the help of Disney. Hard to believe,
but Disney's art department bought a set of this for themselves about two
years ago to get a complete run of Mickey Mouse dailies from this period.
They neither have the originals nor Xeroxes of them, so that this edition
might be the only one for the next time. A chance could be to find a
collector of the daily strips cut out from newspapers. At ebay from time to
time a complete month with about 26 strips is offered in the range of 10
USD. So a comparable collection containing 25 years will cost about 7,800
USD! I try to collect for myself all the Donald dailies and Sunday pages,
let me tell you that I have spent a lot of money during that time. And if
ever a collection will be completed, I don't think that Disney will license
them again. The WWII-strips were full of flog'n'force.
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Olivier
Dreidreizehn( Detlev?):
>>>>Hard to believe,
>>>> but Disney's art department bought a set of this for themselves about
two
>>>> years ago to get a complete run of Mickey Mouse dailies from this
period.
>>>> They neither have the originals nor Xeroxes of them, so that this
edition
>>>> might be the only one for the next time.
Oh yeah, I remember being told that, though I can't remember who told me.
Actually, I think I was told Walt Disney France (or Disney-Hachette?) had
bought a set-- coudl be both.
Olivier
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Cord Wiljes
strips is expensive. Is this really so?
You can buy it for $ 900. each of the 26 volumes (1930-1955) has around
100 pages. each page has three strips with 5 panels each. So you get
2.600 pages at a page rate of 35 cent / page.
Let us compare this to
+ a current issue of "The Amazing Spider-Man":
22 pages for $ 2.25 => page rate = 10 cent / page
+ a volume of the current (beautiful) reprint series of "Krazy Kat":
116 pages for $ 14.95 => page rate = 13 cent / page
+ a current issue of Walt Disney's Comics:
60 pages for $ 6.95 => page rate = 12 cent / page
+ the original b/w Barks Library
8,000 pages für $ 1.300 => page rate = 16 cent / page
But each of these comics pages (with the exception of Krazy Kat) has
only 8 panels at most. So a Gottfredson page with three strips has the
content of two comic book pages. And considering the very condensed
daily format it has probably even more story value - especially compared
to Spider-Man ;-)
So it is not THAT expensive.
I am thinking about buying all existing copies and dropping all but one
into the Atlantic Ocean. My copy will be valuable beyond measure *g*
Cord
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Rich Bellacera
> It has been said that the complete edition
> of Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse strips is
> expensive. Is this really so?
> You can buy it for $ 900. each of the 26
> volumes (1930-1955) has around 100 pages.
> each page has three strips with 5 panels
> each. So you get 2.600 pages at a page
> rate of 35 cent / page.
> ...<snip>...
> So it is not THAT expensive.
I would have assumed the *reason* the series is expensive was obvious, but maybe
it needs a little more clarification.
1) The set I posted the link for is $925.00 (not $900).
2) That does not include postage and handling from Germany to USA (or whereever).
3) Hence the price easily reaches, if not exceeds $1000.00
4) Page rate is fine if paid for over a period of time, but paying for all 26
volumes in one shot is not easy for those of us who do not have $1000.00 laying
around just waiting to be spent on something that does not include daily survival
requirements (bills, mortgage, loans, food, gasoline, etc.).
For most of us, I would assume, the ideal way to purchase these reprints is via
the comics we buy monthly where we can shoehorn them into our budget (somehow) and
hopefully, eventually, collect the entire series of reprints.
:-)
Thanks,
Rich Bellacera
xep...@cwnet.com
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://cwnet.com/
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Alecto
story (my copy is missing the back page).
I must say that to me it seems a rather unusual MM story, with adult concepts
not usually touched upon in later Disney's I've read (e.g. suicide).
Tony
I'm not aware of any code; I don't remember seeing any, just the copyright
& date.
"Mickey Mouse in Color" indexes it as:
"Mr Slicker and the Egg Robbers" (Sept 22 - Dec 26, 1930)
Written & penciled by Floyd Gottfredson,
inked by Floyd Gottfredson & Hardie Kramatky (Sept 22 - Nov 15) and Earl
Duvall.
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Cord Wiljes
> Page rate is fine if paid for over a period of time, but
> paying for all 26 volumes in one shot is not easy for
> those of us who do not have $1000.00 laying
> around just waiting to be spent on something that does not
> include daily survival requirements (bills, mortgage,
> loans, food, gasoline, etc.).
Yes, it was a theoretical calculation, I admit that.
And I did not want to persuade anybody to buy the set.
I believe it is much too expensive. In fact I believe nearly
all current comics are much too expensive. (Just break it down
to money per reading time!) In contrast I believe that old
masterpieces like the Gottfredson MMs, like Krazy Kat, like
Prince Valiant, like Popeye should be public domain. This is the
only way to ensure their survival, especially if the old copyright
holders deny reprints. They belong to our common cultural heritage
just like the works of Homer and Dickens. And I see no justification
why any company should be allowed to keep the public from it's own
culture - just to profit from something which was created by people
long gone from the eartly plane? I believe that copyright laws were
meant exactly to ensure this: After a certain time (depending on
the date of creation) a work of art falls into the public domain
and can be shared by everyone for free. Should I pay anybody to
print an image of the Mona Lisa? Or playing music by Bach? Or
reprinting Plato? Definitely not! Even more so: Should anybody be
allowed to forbid ANY depiction of Michelangelo's "David"? Or
any printing of "The Divine Comedy"? No, of course not. In this
case a rich tycon or a big company could buy a lots and lots of
old masterpieces and deny the public any access. Or demand astronomical
sums which just the rich could afford. So my answer is this:
When will I be allowed to scan my edition of Gottfredson's complete MM
works (which I bought, even though I couldn't afford it) and share it
with everbody for free on the internet? There has to be some answer to this!
According to this table http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm
everything which has been published more than 67 years ago should be.
So at least the first six years of MM cartoons should be public domain
by now and it should be possible to reprint them without asking or
paying Disney any licence fee. Im no lawyer, though, so please do not
pin me down to this and I won't risk the wrath of Disney's legal
department.
> For most of us, I would assume, the ideal way to purchase
> these reprints is via the comics we buy monthly where we
> can shoehorn them into our budget (somehow) and
> hopefully, eventually, collect the entire series of reprints.
BUT you could put $ 2.99 into a box each month instead of buying the
current issue of the Amazing Spider-Man. You could then buy the
complete Gottfredson set in August 2030. By a strange coincidence you
would then have saved the money at just about the same rate the strips
originally appeared: over a span of 26 years!
Cord
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Gunnarsson, Joakim SE - HMJ
>>>A chance could be to find a
> collector of the daily strips cut out from newspapers. >>>
>
Bill Blackbeard has got them and they are available for research
purposes and reprint projects.
I don't have his e-mail address here,
but he's on the Comic Strip Classics mailing list if anyone would
like to get in touch with him.
/Joakim.
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H.W....@telecom.tno.nl
> Are there story codes for these old strips?, I've just
> obtained a very early
> Australian MM comic that I'd like to index but I can't
> later in the book another mouse called "Mr Slicker" takes
> up with Minnie
Olivier:
> I'm not aware of any code; I don't remember seeing any, just
> the copyright & date. "Mickey Mouse in Color" indexes it as:
> [...]
> I've copied the list on my site:
> http://ob7.free.fr/mice_and_ducks/
> (click on Mickey, then choose List).
Inducks also contains all the information from Byron Erickson's index in "MM in Color".
We gave the various sequences codes like YM 001, YM 002, etc.
The Slicker story is YM 003.
--Harry.
http://inducks.org
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Olivier
This MM strips conversation is very interesting-- and Harry's forwarded
message from Poul Frøkjær looks most interesting: thanks! I'll read i=
t
later, even print it.
Cord:
>>>> You can buy it for $ 900. each of the 26 volumes (1930-1955) has aro=
und
>>>> 100 pages. each page has three strips with 5 panels each. So you get
>>>> 2.600 pages at a page rate of 35 cent / page.
A bit more taking into account Rich's remark on shipping (of the safest
kind!)-- 50 cents?
Now, you could probably go to the library, go through hundreds of
newspapers, selecting the best available reprint (no creases, whiter pape=
r,
larger image, ...) and photocopy them, then edit the whole thing & bind i=
t.
I don't know how much it is around the US, but I know for sure photocopie=
s
were 20 cents a page at the Library of Congress in January 2003 (10 cent=
s
in August 2000; it went up in 2001 I believe).
I'm not sure that would be much cheaper. It would be fun (at the beginnin=
g,
that is), but it would be a heck of a lot of work! Hours and days and
weeks and months!
>>>> I am thinking about buying all existing copies and dropping all but =
one
>>>> into the Atlantic Ocean. My copy will be valuable beyond measure *g*
In won't sell mine. So yours will be "only" half what it could be.
Nyaaaaaaaaah :D
>>>>I believe that old masterpieces like the Gottfredson MMs, like Krazy
Kat, like
>>>>Prince Valiant, like Popeye should be public domain. This is the
>>>>only way to ensure their survival, especially if the old copyright
>>>>holders deny reprints. They belong to our common cultural heritage
>>>just like the works of Homer and Dickens.
Good point. Legally, though, the problem would be the definition of
"masterpiece" and "part of the cultural heritage".
>>>>When will I be allowed to scan my edition of Gottfredson's complete M=
M
>>>>works (which I bought, even though I couldn't afford it) and share it
>>>>with everbody for free on the internet?
It was very expensive for me as well. A splendid present I made myself f=
or
passing the (highly) competitive exams to become a teacher.
Alecto:
>>>>Thanks for that info, do you happen to know how many panels there are=
in
that
>>>>story (my copy is missing the back page).
Panels? Sorry, but I have no idea dn honestly don't feel like counting th=
em.
The "back page"? Would that be the "last page"?
Here is a short description of the last three days--
Dec 24: saving Minnie
Dec 25: netting the bad guys
Dec 26: party
Then it's a series of gag-a-day strips running till January 17; on Dec 2=
7,
Mickey wants to surprise Minnie.
I can't scan anything right now, I'm re-installing everything after
reformatting due to a mysterious incident-- the e-mail was the only thing
working; other than that, I was connected to electronic nothingess.
Best wishes,
Olivier
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Olivier
Alecto:
>>> I must say that to me it seems a rather unusual MM story, with adult
concepts
>>> not usually touched upon in later Disney's I've read (e.g. suicide)
They're quite unique indeed. Some beautiful panels- the first strip of this
episode (Oct 11), for instance, with Mickey walking in the street, looking
worried, then seeing Minnie & Slicker's shadows; and the wordless last panel
of the next day, where Mickey picks his rifle.
A quote from-- you've guessed it-- the truly excellent interview by David R
Smith (Nov 5, 1975), reprinted in "Mickey Mouse in Color"...
(pp107-8)
(DS) Did Walt take much of an interest in the comic strip as it was going
along? Did you get criticism or story suggestions from him?
(FG) At the start I did. He would make suggestions every once in a while,
for some short continuities and so on, and I would do them. One that I'll
enver forget, and which I still don't understand-- around early 1931 I
believe it was, he said, "Why don't ou do a continuity of Mickey trying to
commit suicide?" So I said, "Walt: You're kidding!" He replied, "No, I'm not
kidding. I think you could get a lot of funny stuff out of that." I said,
"Gee whiz, Walt, I don't know. What do you think the syndicate will thing?
And the readers?" He said, "I think it will be funy. Go ahead and do it". So
I did, oh maybe ten days of Mickey trying to commit suicie-- jumping off
bridges and landing in garbage scows, trying to hang himself and the limb
breaks, rigging up a gun and something happens to it. I don't remember all
the details. But, strangely enough, the Syndicate didn't object. We didn't
hear anything from the editors, and Walt said, "See, it was funny; I told
you it would be". So, there were a few things like that.
Olivier
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Cord Wiljes
>> I am thinking about buying all existing copies and
Olivier wrote:
> In won't sell mine. So yours will be "only" half what it could be.
> Nyaaaaaaaaah :D
Only if you were willing to sell your copy - which you are not, are you?
An If you were I would be forced to send my trained termines to eat
your copies.
>> I believe that old masterpieces like the Gottfredson MMs,
>> like Krazy Kat, like Prince Valiant, like Popeye should be public
>> domain. This is the only way to ensure their survival, especially
>> if the old copyright holders deny reprints. They belong to our common
>> cultural heritage just like the works of Homer and Dickens.
> Good point. Legally, though, the problem would be the definition of
> "masterpiece" and "part of the cultural heritage".
Any work of fiction/art/invention in general should (and does, to my
knowledge) become public domain some years after it's creators death,
regardless of it's quality or importance.
> It was very expensive for me as well. A splendid present I
> made myself for passing the (highly) competitive exams to become a teacher.
Same here. A late present for myself for landing my first job five
years ago.
Cord
88o) <- Mickey Smiley ?
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Olivier
Cord:
>>> An If you were I would be forced to send my trained termines to eat
>>> your copies.
Forbidium (TM)! Who knows where I can find a Forbidium (TM) safe?
>>>> 88o) <- Mickey Smiley ?
Looks like he has four ears :\
8° -- profile?
By the way, I'm working on a couple more smileys ;) I'll make a page on =
my
M&D site, and you will naturally be free to use them on your discussion
board too.
Olivier
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Cord Wiljes
>>And if you were I would be forced to send my trained
>> termines to eat your copies.
Olivier wrote
> Forbidium (TM)! Who knows where I can find a Forbidium (TM) safe?
Oh well, so you leave me no chance but to drop meteorites from the moon o=
nto
your comics bin.
>> 88o) <- Mickey Smiley ?
> Looks like he has four ears :\
Maybe this is better:
8:o)
Nah, looks more like Daisy.
> 8° -- profile?
Full body profile? Looks more like seen from above.
> By the way, I'm working on a couple more smileys ;) I'll
> make a page on my M&D site, and you will naturally be free
> to use them on your discussion board too.
You can find Oliviers great Disney smileys here:
http://bobcat74.free.fr/obemoticons/disney/0disney0001.htm
Cord
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Olivier
>>> Oh well, so you leave me no chance but to drop meteorites from the mo=
on
onto
>>> your comics bin.
I'll ask Gyro to think of something.
Quiz: what else did Gyro invent to protect Scrooge's safe (Barks' stories=
)?
>>> 8° -- profile?
>>> Full body profile? Looks more like seen from above.
Hm. No. I was thinking of his head. Please tilt your own head 90° to t=
he
left or thereabouts. The "8" is now Mickey's ears, and the "°" his nose.
Well, should be.
>>>> You can find Oliviers great Disney smileys here:
>>>> http://bobcat74.free.fr/obemoticons/disney/0disney0001.htm
Aw shucks, thanks for the kind plug! I'm reorganizing it all, so that, wh=
en
I update the site, this will link to a "menu page". The ducks & the mouse
will have separate pages. I already have 6 new duck-related smileys, and =
13
new mouse-related smileys (including one version of a character you aske=
d
for, Cord ;) ). I'll try and do more, then I will update the page, link t=
o
it from M&D (make it part of M&D, that is), and tell you all about it. I
hope you like them.
Olivier
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